The Abortion Debate Containment Thread - Put abortion sperging here.

[Eris!]

And that is a clump of cells that would have no ability to survive outside of the body it is parasiting.

Why are you describing natural reproduction of one's own child as "parasiting?"

 

[Death Grip]

Because of the huge impact that pregnancy has on a person's body.

 

[Eris!]

Because of the huge impact that pregnancy has on a person's body.

Why do you people always cite reasons that are totally irrelevant to the things you're reasoning?

 

[Death Grip]

I fail to see how damage to one's body is irrelevant. Please do explain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_complications_of_pregnancy

 

[Zero Day Defense]

That's what family is for. Let an aunt raise the kid.

Yeah, but that's still adoption. That, and it's still a privilege of those who are on any terms with their extended family.

Adoption can lead to attachment issues that have a life long impact.

And abortion leads to their death.

And that is a clump of cells that would have no ability to survive outside of the body it is parasiting.

And a newborn has no ability to live outside of the care of their mother. For that matter, the a child isn't able to be self-sufficient for a long while.

Also, learn what a parasite is.

Because of the huge impact that pregnancy has on a person's body.

That's a feature, not a bug.

 

[Niggaplease]

why I believe abortion should be a thing, because well for one thing out right crimilizing it can lead to an even more over reach of power:
look to Ecuador they fucking out right criminalized it so much that even the natural process of miscarrying can possibly lead a woman to a prison sentence if the doctor suspects it was self inflicted.
Do you really want to go down that slippery slope the government makes it so that miscarrying a fetus can mean prison?
Most of the same people who go off about abortion being bad are the same assholes who want to cut funding to welfare, well you can't have it both ways, you can't care for a child only until the baby pops up then do fuck all to help the child's mother have some sort of security in life. That's not really being pro-life it's being probirth.
A state subsidized abortion is cheaper than decades of well fare because let's face it girls born to mothers who got pregnant as teens are more than likely to repeat it.

 

[Clamsworth]

Everyone calm down @Erischan just really likes cream-pies.

 

[Orion Balls]

People get raped. Hang the rapists, justice is served, move on. You still don't get to murder your baby.

Do the paternal Grandparents get to sue for custody of the child while the mother is trying to put her life back together? Because rape trauma often takes longer than nine months to deal with. I think rapists themselves have actually sued for visitation rights in the past, and won, but since that person would be dead, and there is precedence for parental/grandparents rights...

 

[AnimeGirlConnoisseur]

Most of the same people who go off about abortion being bad are the same assholes who want to cut funding to welfare, well you can't have it both ways, you can't care for a child only until the baby pops up then do fuck all to help the child's mother have some sort of security in life. That's not really being pro-life it's being probirth.
A state subsidized abortion is cheaper than decades of well fare because let's face it girls born to mothers who got pregnant as teens are more than likely to repeat it.

Well yes, you can have it both ways. Believing that a fetus is a person just means that you think the fetus is entitled to the same rights as a child. That doesn't mean that there needs to be a social program in place to pay for the fetus after it has been born (and hey, maybe there should be, but that's another discussion). Your argument is like saying that people who think left-handed people are entitled to the same rights as everyone else, but doesn't want the government to fund social programs that address the needs of left-handed people (even if left-handed people could really benefit from these programs) does not really support the rights of left-handed people.

 

[Day Of The Sword]

Adoption can lead to attachment issues that have a life long impact.
And the majority of abortions are carried out prior to twelve weeks. And that is a clump of cells that would have no ability to survive outside of the body it is parasiting.
75 percent of women who give birth naturally, in their first labour will end up with tearing as a consequence of laboring naturally.
View attachment 1617917

Fetuses aren't a different species than humans, therefore aren't parasites.

I would be morally obligated to do so.

Two decades of nursing a retarded baby that will never produce anything of value. You have no idea what you would be in for.

Everyone calm down @Erischan just really likes cream-pies.

I don't care what the context of this post is but im really craving some cream-pie.

 

[Niggaplease]

Well yes, you can have it both ways. Believing that a fetus is a person just means that you think the fetus is entitled to the same rights as a child. That doesn't mean that there needs to be a social program in place to pay for the fetus after it has been born (and hey, maybe there should be, but that's another discussion). Your argument is like saying that people who think left-handed people are entitled to the same rights as everyone else, but doesn't want the government to fund social programs that address the needs of left-handed people (even if left-handed people could really benefit from these programs) does not really support the rights of left-handed people.

well unfortunately I don't want my tax dollars going into snap I want my tax dollars to go state subsidized abortions. You can argue personhood all you want but it's stupid to believe idiots would stop breeding after one less barrier to consequences have been removed, people are still going to fuck and reproduce regardless but yes let's just overpopulate our country with more unwanted kids. great fucking plan!
you didn't even touch my Ecuador debate.

 

[AnimeGirlConnoisseur]

well unfortunately I don't want my tax dollars going into snap I want my tax dollars to go state subsidized abortions. You can argue personhood all you want but it's stupid to believe idiots would stop breeding after one less barrier to consequences have been removed, people are still going to fuck and reproduce regardless but yes let's just overpopulate our country with more unwanted kids. great fucking plan!
you didn't even touch my Ecuador debate.

I don't really see what's happening in Ecuador as relevant. I don't think we should automatically suspect that mothers that miscarried aborted their fetuses. All people should be innocent until proven guilty. Also (and correct me if I'm wrong) what is happening in Ecuador wasn't what people were doing in the US before RVW, so why should I assume that if we got rid of abortion in the US, that would happen?
When did I say that banning abortion is going to lead to people being more responsible? The point is that if fetuses are people then killing them for no reason other than convenience is bad.

 

[Eris!]

I fail to see how damage to one's body is irrelevant. Please do explain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_complications_of_pregnancy

A child damaging its mother's body does not make it a parasite. No amount of damage is relevant in bridging the logical leap to calling it a parasite. If it burst out of her womb like a chestburster and killed her it still wouldn't be a parasite.
It's her child, making use of her body in a way it is biologically designed to. It is not some foreign invader preying on her.

look to Ecuador they fucking out right criminalized it so much that even the natural process of miscarrying can possibly lead a woman to a prison sentence if the doctor suspects it was self inflicted.

I am shocked that low IQ equadorians cannot properly implement policy.
I don't see how their mistake makes it logically necessary that we will make a similar one.

Do you really want to go down that slippery slope the government makes it so that miscarrying a fetus can mean prison?

I see no reason to believe we would, but that scenario is still significantly preferable to mass infanticide by the millions every single year forever.

Most of the same people who go off about abortion being bad are the same assholes who want to cut funding to welfare, well you can't have it both ways, you can't care for a child only until the baby pops up then do fuck all to help the child's mother have some sort of security in life. That's not really being pro-life it's being probirth.

It's anti-murder. I don't need to feed you or take any active interest in your wellbeing to be against you being murdered. This contradiction exists only in your misunderstanding.

Do the paternal Grandparents get to sue for custody of the child while the mother is trying to put her life back together? Because rape trauma often takes longer than nine months to deal with. I think rapists themselves have actually sued for visitation rights in the past, and won, but since that person would be dead, and there is precedence for parental/grandparents rights...

Sure, I don't see any reason why not. They didn't rape her, and it's their grandchild.

You have no idea what you would be in for.

What I would be in for would be awful, but its awfulness would be irrelevant to my obligation.
I would be morally obligated to live that shit life, because all of the alternatives are morally impermissible actions.

You can argue personhood all you want but it's stupid to believe idiots would stop breeding after one less barrier to consequences have been removed

Why do you think we care if they would or wouldn't stop? I most certainly don't give a shit if they fuck their life up or their kid's life up. That's a personal problem, not a social one. The consequences are theirs to suffer.

but yes let's just overpopulate our country with more unwanted kids

The solution to that is to fix the root causes making them unwanted, and restoring the natural familial and church support structures that are meant to solve these problems. The solution is not to sanction mass murder as a perpetual bandaid.

 

[Niggaplease]

I don't really see what's happening in Ecuador as relevant. I don't think we should automatically suspect that mothers that miscarried aborted their fetuses. All people should be innocent until proven guilty. Also (and correct me if I'm wrong) what is happening in Ecuador wasn't what people were doing in the US before RVW, so why should I assume that if we got rid of abortion in the US, that would happen?
When did I say that banning abortion is going to lead to people being more responsible? The point is that if fetuses are people then killing them for no reason other than convenience is bad.

Ecudoar has laws in place that if a doctor even has the slightest idea it may have the miscarriage might be self inflicted; then they have to report it to the police.
the problem is you can't really tell the difference between a natural miscarriage or self inflicted in most instances.
Most of the time when it comes to self inflicted its done by taking more than one dose of the morning after pill or some weird poisonous concoction to get the uterus to contract and force the fetus out.
Whether we legalize it or criminalize doesn't mean it'll stop. it means more people would turn to even dicey methods
what would happen as the stakes get raised and if we require medical personal to report if they suspect it's a self inflicted abortion is moteg

A child damaging its mother's body does not make it a parasite. No amount of damage is relevant in bridging the logical leap to calling it a parasite. If it burst out of her womb like a chestburster and killed her it still wouldn't be a parasite.
It's her child, making use of her body in a way it is biologically designed to. It is not some foreign invader preying on her.

I am shocked that low IQ equadorians cannot properly implement policy.
I don't see how their mistake makes it logically necessary that we will make a similar one.

I see no reason to believe we would, but that scenario is still significantly preferable to mass infanticide by the millions every single year forever.

It's anti-murder. I don't need to feed you or take any active interest in your wellbeing to be against you being murdered. This contradiction exists only in your misunderstanding.

Sure, I don't see any reason why not. They didn't rape her, and it's their grandchild.

What I would be in for would be awful, but its awfulness would be irrelevant to my obligation.
I would be morally obligated to live that shit life, because all of the alternatives are morally impermissible actions.

Why do you think we care if they would or wouldn't stop? I most certainly don't give a shit if they fuck their life up or their kid's life up. That's a personal problem, not a social one. The consequences are theirs to suffer.

The solution to that is to fix the root causes making them unwanted, and restoring the natural familial and church support structures that are meant to solve these problems. The solution is not to sanction mass murder as a perpetual bandaid.

don't complain about infanticide if you want to have abortion not be a thing and want to fuck with well fare.
it's like okay it's wrong to kill a baby when it has no sentience or cabapility to feel early on in the womb, but totally fine to see that kid either end up starving or in a system that only gurantees a continuation of a fucked up life but to you that's fine. There is no way in he'll in current year to fix society's fuck ups, and truthfully I don't want to fucking want to wait possibly decades to see a return to traditional values. it may never happen in our lifetimes even.
By criminalizing it your only going to drive it underground away from government regulation and medical oversight. Like with drugs if people want it they're gonna get it no matter the stakes.
onto to the matter over the overreach of power. Not everyone is logical if Ecuador can do it then it's literally an example of how a government can seriously screw people over in that regard. There has been at least a few instances in non abortion friendly states where they literally charged women with killing their fetus over a fucking miscarriage. That isn't okay, no government should rule over what we can or can't do to our own bodies. just because you think it's murder doesn't mean it should be outlawed a fetus up to a certain point isn't even viable with out a womb. It can't feel pain or even have some sentience in the beginning.
now I don't agree with third trimester abortion and I think there should be some restriction on that. (fuck ny for implementing that bullshit.) and on a personal ethical level I probably wouldn't use it unless my contraceptive failed. Maybe never as Id be willing to take responsibility but the idea of it is offensive. no man nor government should force me to carry a child I don't want.

 

[Orion Balls]

A child damaging its mother's body does not make it a parasite. No amount of damage is relevant in bridging the logical leap to calling it a parasite. If it burst out of her womb like a chestburster and killed her it still wouldn't be a parasite.
It's her child, making use of her body in a way it is biologically designed to. It is not some foreign invader preying on her.

I am shocked that low IQ equadorians cannot properly implement policy.
I don't see how their mistake makes it logically necessary that we will make a similar one.

I see no reason to believe we would, but that scenario is still significantly preferable to mass infanticide by the millions every single year forever.

It's anti-murder. I don't need to feed you or take any active interest in your wellbeing to be against you being murdered. This contradiction exists only in your misunderstanding.

Sure, I don't see any reason why not. They didn't rape her, and it's their grandchild.

What I would be in for would be awful, but its awfulness would be irrelevant to my obligation.
I would be morally obligated to live that shit life, because all of the alternatives are morally impermissible actions.

Why do you think we care if they would or wouldn't stop? I most certainly don't give a shit if they fuck their life up or their kid's life up. That's a personal problem, not a social one. The consequences are theirs to suffer.

The solution to that is to fix the root causes making them unwanted, and restoring the natural familial and church support structures that are meant to solve these problems. The solution is not to sanction mass murder as a perpetual bandaid.

I take it you have never reproduced, had a miscarriage, or are even carrying a womb. There are certain empathies that come from those qualifiers. Possibly, you are simply very sheltered from the world.

I have no judgement to pass on your opinions. I only hope that you take a catholic (universal, not Church) view on the world, if ever such sticky occasions arrive in your life. Do not condemn the sinner, nor the society that allows such sin (You, as I, have no right to do so. We are neither prophets, nor G-d); rather, change the hearts of those you meet through action.

Adopt an unwanted American child. Without haste. And not an infant. Adopt an eleven year-old.

 

[Niggaplease]

I take it you have never reproduced, had a miscarriage, or are even carrying a womb. There are certain empathies that come from those qualifiers. Possibly, you are simply very sheltered from the world.

I have no judgement to pass on your opinions. I only hope that you take a catholic (universal, not Church) view on the world, if ever such sticky occasions arrive in your life. Do not condemn the sinner, nor the society that allows such sin (You, as I, have no right to do so. We are neither prophets, nor G-d); rather, change the hearts of those you meet through action.

Adopt an unwanted American child. Without haste. And not an infant. Adopt an eleven year-old.

yeah and a mentally disabled one at that.
I personally if I get knocked up wouldn't abort but I'm not one for treading on others rights.

 

[AnimeGirlConnoisseur]

Ecudoar has laws in place that if a doctor even has the slightest idea it may have the miscarriage might be self inflicted; then they have to report it to the police.
the problem is you can't really tell the difference between a natural miscarriage or self inflicted in most instances.
Most of the time when it comes to self inflicted its done by taking more than one dose of the morning after pill or some weird poisonous concoction to get the uterus to contract and force the fetus out.
Whether we legalize it or criminalize doesn't mean it'll stop. it means more people would turn to even dicey methods
what would happen as the stakes get raised and if we require medical personal to report if they suspect it's a self inflicted abortion is moteg

Well, I don't think it would be necessary for any state that wants to abolish abortion to do the same thing that Ecuador is doing. Things could just work the same way as they in America before RVW.
Also, nobody is under the illusion that outlawing abortion is going to completely eradicate it. If you buy into the idea that a fetus is a person then abortion is an act where a person is being victimized. This is different than illegal drug use or prostitution (prostitution is a complex issue, but for the sake of this argument let's adopt the libertarian view on it), two issues where people adopt this view of "Oh, well it's going to happen regardless, so let's just legalize it so that it can be taxed and regulated". If fetuses are people, then what you are doing is having the state endorse the victimization of people who cannot defend themselves so that other's can benefit. That is no different than arguing that child porn should be legalized so that we can use the taxes generated by it to fund education and public infrastructure.

Sure, I don't see any reason why not. They didn't rape her, and it's their grandchild.

I disagree. I don't see why the rapist's side of the family should be given the same rights as those of a normal parent.

 

[Niggaplease]

Well, I don't think it would be necessary for any state that wants to abolish abortion to do the same thing that Ecuador is doing. Things could just work the same way as they in America before RVW.
Also, nobody is under the illusion that outlawing abortion is going to completely eradicate it. If you buy into the idea that a fetus is a person then abortion is an act where a person is being victimized. This is different than illegal drug use or prostitution (prostitution is a complex issue, but for the sake of this argument let's adopt the libertarian view on it), two issues where people adopt this view of "Oh, well it's going to happen regardless, so let's just legalize it so that it can be taxed and regulated". If fetuses are people, then what you are doing is having the state endorse the victimization of people who cannot defend themselves so that other's can benefit. That is no different than arguing that child porn should be legalized so that we can use the taxes generated by it to fund education and public infrastructure.


I disagree. I don't see why the rapist's side of the family should be given the same rights as those of a normal parent.

And? I don't believe a fetus can be considered a human until it's viable outside of the womb. That means it has the possibility of surviving with out the womb. I don't agree with 3rd trimester abortion because of this.
it takes at least 7 months to get to that state. Comparing it to cp is really grasping at straws, cp ruins a life, with an abortion it's no life at all. the child simply ceases to exist.

 

[Overcast]

I never got the Phrase “It’s a clump of cells” when arguing for abortion.

EVERYBODY is a clump if cells.

I get the message behind it and agree that abortion would be humane when done as early as possible, but I feel that phrase is too easily countered.

 

[AnimeGirlConnoisseur]

And? I don't believe a fetus can be considered a human until it's viable outside of the womb. That means it has the possibility of surviving with out the womb. I don't agree with 3rd trimester abortion because of this.
it takes at least 7 months to get to that state. Comparing it to cp is really grasping at straws, cp ruins a life, with an abortion it's no life at all. the child simply ceases to exist.

Well, why do you not believe a fetus can be considered a human until it's viable outside of the womb? How is that not arbitrary? Also, if you believed that all fetuses were people, would that change you view on what I said about CP?