The Abortion Debate Containment Thread - Put abortion sperging here.

[AnimeAvatard]

Abortion is degenerate and anyone who supports it deserved to be aborted. But that’s just my opinion.

 

[Eris!]

Whether we legalize it or criminalize doesn't mean it'll stop. it means more people would turn to even dicey methods

So we should legalize murder?

it's like okay it's wrong to kill a baby when it has no sentience or cabapility to feel early on in the womb, but totally fine to see that kid either end up starving or in a system that only gurantees a continuation of a fucked up life but to you that's fine.

Murdering a baby is wrong. Me, a complete stranger to the baby, with no personal obligation to the baby, not personally putting food in its mouth, is not murder. Those are very different things. One is murder, something I do to the baby that causes its death. One is not buying a thousand dollar flight every night to put ground squash in its face, it is inaction. They are different. They do not contradict each other.

There is no way in he'll in current year to fix society's fuck ups, and truthfully I don't want to fucking want to wait possibly decades to see a return to traditional values. it may never happen in our lifetimes even.

It's fixed when you fix it, pussy.

By criminalizing it your only going to drive it underground away from government regulation and medical oversight.

Should gang murders also have government regulation and medical oversight? What about robberies?
Why specifically infanticide?
Anyway, the purpose of laws is not to control people's behavior. It's not a deterrent, it's a punishment for evildoing.

There has been at least a few instances in non abortion friendly states where they literally charged women with killing their fetus over a fucking miscarriage. That isn't okay,

It's weird that to you that isn't okay, but infanticide is.

no government should rule over what we can or can't do to our own bodies.

Any decent government should rule that we can't murder our infant children.

just because you think it's murder doesn't mean it should be outlawed

nigga do you fucking hear yourself right now

a fetus up to a certain point isn't even viable with out a womb. It can't feel pain or even have some sentience in the beginning.

Why do you people always, always, always say this as if we don't know it or as if it is somehow relevant?
It's your child.

no man nor government should force me to carry a child I don't want.

No one is forcing you to carry a child. You put the child inside yourself.
We're just forcing you not to murder it.

I take it you have never reproduced, had a miscarriage, or are even carrying a womb. There are certain empathies that come from those qualifiers. Possibly, you are simply very sheltered from the world.

Empathy is not a factor in any of the things we are discussing.

I only hope that you take a catholic (universal, not Church) view on the world, if ever such sticky occasions arrive in your life. Do not condemn the sinner, nor the society that allows such sin (You, as I, have no right to do so. We are neither prophets, nor G-d); rather, change the hearts of those you meet through action.

Abortionists and their customers should be burned alive.

I have no judgement to pass on your opinions.

I do. You are unambiguously evil.

Adopt an unwanted American child. Without haste. And not an infant. Adopt an eleven year-old.

You are deflecting.

I'm not one for treading on others rights.

Murdering your child is not a right.

I don't believe a fetus can be considered a human until it's viable outside of the womb.

I don't care if you don't believe the Earth is a globe. It is. There is no debate.

Comparing it to cp is really grasping at straws, cp ruins a life, with an abortion it's no life at all. the child simply ceases to exist.

Yes, a life ceasing to exist is called dying. You are ruining that child's life. It's called murder.

I never got the Phrase “It’s a clump of cells” when arguing for abortion.

It's called dehumanization and it's what non-psychopathic murderers have to do to cope with their guilt.

 

[Death Grip]

Some people are allowed in some countries to kill persons if that person is inhabiting their body. Get over it already.

Edit typo

 

[Eris!]

Get over it already.

Some people firebomb those infanticidal maniacs are are totally morally justified in doing so, Get over it already.

 

[Niggaplease]

Well, why do you not believe a fetus can be considered a human until it's viable outside of the womb? How is that not arbitrary? Also, if you believed that all fetuses were people, would that change you view on what I said about CP?

because any point until around close to birth you can lose a pregnancy something can go wrong. point is a fetus can't survive outside the womb up to a certain point. Applying the same idea of personhood to something can literally fail if removed from the womb is asinine. if your body can push it out naturally and end it's existence naturally then where's the difference in doing is via doctor? if all abortion is murder then what does that make miscarriage then? by your logic murder because the body is technically aborting a messed up pregnancy.

So we should legalize murder?

Murdering a baby is wrong. Me, a complete stranger to the baby, with no personal obligation to the baby, not personally putting food in its mouth, is not murder. Those are very different things. One is murder, something I do to the baby that causes its death. One is not buying a thousand dollar flight every night to put ground squash in its face, it is inaction. They are different. They do not contradict each other.

It's fixed when you fix it, pussy.

Should gang murders also have government regulation and medical oversight? What about robberies?
Why specifically infanticide?
Anyway, the purpose of laws is not to control people's behavior. It's not a deterrent, it's a punishment for evildoing.

It's weird that to you that isn't okay, but infanticide is.

Any decent government should rule that we can't murder our infant children.

nigga do you fucking hear yourself right now

Why do you people always, always, always say this as if we don't know it or as if it is somehow relevant?
It's your child.

No one is forcing you to carry a child. You put the child inside yourself.
We're just forcing you not to murder it.


Empathy is not a factor in any of the things we are discussing.

Abortionists and their customers should be burned alive.

I do. You are unambiguously evil.

You are deflecting.

Murdering your child is not a right.

I don't care if you don't believe the Earth is a globe. It is. There is no debate.

Yes, a life ceasing to exist is called dying. You are ruining that child's life. It's called murder.

It's called dehumanization and it's what non-psychopathic murderers have to do to cope with their guilt.

1. if abortion is murder then what does that make miscarriage then? a lot of pregnancies end in miscarriage does that make it murder?
2. I'm not even addressing the salty incel shit when poor people breed we got more taxes to pay.
3. get over it.

 

[Lemmingwise]

I never got the Phrase “It’s a clump of cells” when arguing for abortion.

EVERYBODY is a clump if cells.

I get the message behind it and agree that abortion would be humane when done as early as possible, but I feel that phrase is too easily countered.

Humans always need to de-humanize before they can accept murder.

It's just a clump of cells, until you slip morning after pill into a recently pregnant woman's drink. Then suddenly you've done "something horrible" and you have to "go back to autism care".

 

[Eris!]

because any point until around close to birth you can lose a pregnancy something can go wrong.

So? I don't follow your reasoning? It's not a human because... something can go wrong and it can die?
That's true after you're born too. It never stops being true.

point is a fetus can't survive outside the womb up to a certain point.

Again, so?

Applying the same idea of personhood to something can literally fail if removed from the womb is asinine.

...Why? What does one thing have to do with the other? I see no relationship. It's a human which will die if you remove it from its mothers womb.

if your body can push it out naturally and end it's existence naturally then where's the difference in doing is via doctor?

Because one involves moral agency and is murder.

if all abortion is murder then what does that make miscarriage then? by your logic murder because the body is technically aborting a messed up pregnancy.

Your body is not morally culpable. We do not try your pancreas for murder when you get pancreatic cancer and it kills you.
An abortionist is morally culpable for the human beings that he consciously chooses to actively murder.

2. I'm not even addressing the salty incel shit when poor people breed we got more taxes to pay.

I have a better solution to that problem than legalizing infanticide: Abolish welfare and federal taxes.

 

[Death Grip]

@Erischan the difference is, abortion is LEGAL.
Blowing people up not so much.

 

[Niggaplease]

So? I don't follow your reasoning? It's not a human because... something can go wrong and it can die?
That's true after you're born too. It never stops being true.

Again, so?

...Why? What does one thing have to do with the other? I see no relationship. It's a human which will die if you remove it from its mothers womb.

Because one involves moral agency and is murder.

Your body is not morally culpable. We do not try your pancreas for murder when you get pancreatic cancer and it kills you.
An abortionist is morally culpable for the human beings that he consciously chooses to actively murder.

I have a better solution to that problem than legalizing infanticide: Abolish welfare and federal taxes.

1. by applying the same idea to personhood to a fetus your applying person hood to the stuff my vagina sheds each month by default. Miscarriages happen a lot the only difference between abortion and miscarriage is intent. There is nothing wrong in ending a pregnancy you can't care for.
2. because a fetus isn't a fully formed human being because it can't survive out side the womb or. be aware of its own existence. You can't apply the same level of human rights to something like that.
3. yes the body isn't culpable but that hasn't stopped the government from criminalizing the very act of a natural process.
4. jerking off should be consider murder then.

 

[Sweetpeaa]

The case of Purvi Patel was the beginning of the end. What's sad is her family moved from one backwards country just to end up in another.

 

[AnimeAvatard]

Whether anyone agrees about abortion or not can we all agree that Planned Parenthood is a horrible organization?

 

[Lemmingwise]

1. by applying the same idea to personhood to a fetus your applying person hood to the stuff my vagina sheds each month by default. Miscarriages happen a lot the only difference between abortion and miscarriage is intent. There is nothing wrong in ending a pregnancy you can't care for.
2. because a fetus isn't a fully formed human being because it can't survive out side the womb or. be aware of its own existence. You can't apply the same level of human rights to something like that.
3. yes the body isn't culpable but that hasn't stopped the government from criminalizing the very act of a natural process.
4. jerking off should be consider murder then.

I like the idea of women being equally morally responsible as unconscious bodily functions. Keep it up @Niggaplease, that line of reasoning can't possibly backfire.

 

[Niggaplease]

Whether anyone agrees about abortion or not can we all agree that Planned Parenthood is a horrible organization?

that I can agree with abortion should be if publically funded subject to government oversight.

 

[Clamsworth]

All hail @Erischan, first of her name! Fetus fighter. Choice challenger. Cream craver. Onion overlord. The one true champion of the unborn!

 

[Not Really Here]

subject to government oversight.

That makes you a crazy fundie in the US. They call them "TRAP laws".

 

[Zero Day Defense]

I have no judgement to pass on your opinions. I only hope that you take a catholic (universal, not Church) view on the world, if ever such sticky occasions arrive in your life. Do not condemn the sinner, nor the society that allows such sin (You, as I, have no right to do so. We are neither prophets, nor G-d); rather, change the hearts of those you meet through action.

Adopt an unwanted American child. Without haste. And not an infant. Adopt an eleven year-old.

Don't bloviate.

 

[Eris!]

@Erischan the difference is, abortion is LEGAL.
Blowing people up not so much.

Who gives a shit?
Moral is more important than legal.

by applying the same idea to personhood to a fetus your applying person hood to the stuff my vagina sheds each month by default.

No, I'm not. One is a fetus, a human being. The other is an egg, a zygote which is 50% of the components needed to make a human.
You people keep drawing these comparisons that don't hold up, pointing out that they contradict one another, and acting like that's an argument.
It's not. You clearly don't understand the position you're even arguing against. You don't seem to understand what makes one a life and the other not.

because a fetus isn't a fully formed human being

No, it's not a fully formed human being. Neither is an 8 year old child. It's still a human being.

it can't survive out side the womb or. be aware of its own existenc

Neither of these things effect its rights in any way.

You can't apply the same level of human rights to something like that.

You can and should. All human beings have human rights. It's a human being, it has rights.

Let me make it very simple for you:
If: Human being
Then: Rights

See how there's no part of that if:then that mentions their sentience, consciousness, location inside or outside of the womb, or any of your other bullshit reasons? That's because none of those things are relevant factors in the equation of human rights. There is only one variable.

3. yes the body isn't culpable but that hasn't stopped the government from criminalizing the very act of a natural process.

So you have no argument.

4. jerking off should be consider murder then.

It's genuinely shocking that you people continue to make arguments that have already been defeated multiple times in this very thread, often with you being the one who spoke them and was defeated. You don't get to use the same argument after it's already been debunked over and over again. We don't forget that you said it before, and we don't forget that it was just as stupid when you said it the first ten times.
No, a zygote is not a life. A fetus is. Why do you pretend that this is confusing?

 

[Zero Day Defense]

No, a zygote is not a life. A fetus is.

You mean a sperm cell, yeah?

 

[Niggaplease]

Who gives a shit?
Moral is more important than legal.

No, I'm not. One is a fetus, a human being. The other is an egg, a zygote which is 50% of the components needed to make a human.
You people keep drawing these comparisons that don't hold up, pointing out that they contradict one another, and acting like that's an argument.
It's not. You clearly don't understand the position you're even arguing against. You don't seem to understand what makes one a life and the other not.

No, it's not a fully formed human being. Neither is an 8 year old child. It's still a human being.

Neither of these things effect its rights in any way.

You can and should. All human beings have human rights. It's a human being, it has rights.

Let me make it very simple for you:
If: Human being
Then: Rights

See how there's no part of that if:then that mentions their sentience, consciousness, location inside or outside of the womb, or any of your other bullshit reasons? That's because none of those things are relevant factors in the equation of human rights. There is only one variable.

So you have no argument.

It's genuinely shocking that you people continue to make arguments that have already been defeated multiple times in this very thread, often with you being the one who spoke them and was defeated. You don't get to use the same argument after it's already been debunked over and over again. We don't forget that you said it before, and we don't forget that it was just as stupid when you said it the first ten times.
No, a zygote is not a life. A fetus is. Why do you pretend that this is confusing?

we all start off as zygotes. terminating that isn't immoral in some countries it's moral to beat their wives, so by your own logic we should just say fuck laws and go by atrbituary ideal of morality.

 

[Eris!]

we all start off as zygotes.

No, we don't. A zygote is not you, it is a precedant of you. You begin to exist at conception, and end existence when your corpse dissolves. For the entire duration inbetween, the entire duration of your existence, you are human. You were never not a human, and you will never not be one. At all points in time you are either human or you do not exist at all.

terminating that isn't immoral in some countries it's moral to beat their wives,

Morality is universal. Individual societies agreeing or disagreeing with morality does not change morality itself.
Moral and cultural relativism are retarded. What is evil has always been evil and is evil at every place on earth.

so by your own logic we should just say fuck laws and go by atrbituary ideal of morality.

It's sad that you think "Do not murder your children" is arbitrary rather than rational, universal, and self-evident.
Your philosophy is broken.