The Final Fantasy Thread

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I have a feeling I'm gonna get negrated to hell for this, but why is Advent Children so disliked? I've heard some of the reasons (Cloud going from an antisocial douchebag to an angsty emo cunt, a majority of the plot being relegated to tie-in novels, the weird pacing as a result of a chunk of the plot missing, Sephiroth's reappearance at the end being 100% fanservice, the washed-out color palette) but I don't feel like they cut to the heart of it.
I can't say why people in general disliked it, but I wanted something other from a sequel than a tedious retread of the main conflict from the original game (Cloud vs. Sephiroth). Also a number of the player characters didn't do anything useful and were just there to be there. Rufus surviving was a WTF. Overall it felt flashy but empty to me. Something else I heard a lot of people complain about was undoing Cloud's character development from the game. As far as I am concerned the only good thing that came out of it was parts of the soundtrack, inspiration for the tabletop RPG Exalted (which also has a very flashy, over-the-top style to it), and (I assume) inspiration for Dead Fantasy.
 
Replaying through FF7 after watching an FF7R playthrough. Hate to be a dick here but I feel like if they went with a 1:1 remake of the original, it would've been boring as fuck. That, and high-fidelity graphics would've marred my image of the original game. Kinda glad they went this way with FF7R

My only complaint is that they don't ease the transition between the ending and the rest of the game enough. Sure, you've got time ghosts or whatever, but to go from slight changes to an entire fighting a literal manifested personification of destiny at the end of time is a bit much
 
I have a feeling I'm gonna get negrated to hell for this, but why is Advent Children so disliked? I've heard some of the reasons (Cloud going from an antisocial douchebag to an angsty emo cunt, a majority of the plot being relegated to tie-in novels, the weird pacing as a result of a chunk of the plot missing, Sephiroth's reappearance at the end being 100% fanservice, the washed-out color palette) but I don't feel like they cut to the heart of it.
I have an interesting perspective because Advent Children was my introduction to FF7. I liked it when I first watched it even though the plot was completely incomprehensible. I liked the action scenes, and at the time, the animation was superb.

I started to like it less after I played FF7, and much of it has to do with the original game's ending. FF7's ending is ambiguous. Near the end, you're told that the Planet could very well sacrifice humanity in an attempt to save itself from the Meteor if it felt as though humans were also a threat. And when you beat Sephiroth and the Meteor finally touches down, the Planet summons the Lifestream to destroy Meteor, but you ultimately never see what happens to humanity. The most you see is the ruins of Midgar centuries later. Sure, you can hear the laughter of children, but my takeaway is that you ultimately don't know if the Planet decided humanity was a threat too. All we know for sure is that Red XIII's species has survived and Midgar was destroyed. It's a bold way to end a game in my opinion, and I love that it's all shrouded in ambiguity.

Until you watch AC and find out, oh everything's fine. The humans? They all moved to a new city. To me that removes a lot of the mystique of the original ending, and in a way it devalues what that ending was going for. And this is a problem with a lot of the Compilation; it either adds nothing to the original story or it actively detracts from it.

There are other reasons too, like Cloud becoming a whiny emo bitch, forever coloring modern perspective of him, but for me personally it's the fact that the movie tries to provide an answer to a question that was never meant to have one, that being the original's ending.
 
I have a feeling I'm gonna get negrated to hell for this, but why is Advent Children so disliked? I've heard some of the reasons (Cloud going from an antisocial douchebag to an angsty emo cunt, a majority of the plot being relegated to tie-in novels, the weird pacing as a result of a chunk of the plot missing, Sephiroth's reappearance at the end being 100% fanservice, the washed-out color palette) but I don't feel like they cut to the heart of it.
There is an action scene in AC I find says a lot about the Compilation. It's the fight Tifa has with the big Sephiroth clone guy. It's this epic fight where she "wins" (complete with a fanfare ringtone) but then he just gets up and beats her down like she's nothing anyway. Entirely pointless and dumb to give it the framing of a battle of equals just to show off. And if you look for the fight on youtube, the part where he beats her down is often cut off. Just the flashy fight is preserved. So not only was it dumb on its own, the fans didn't even get that it was dumb. That's why people hate AC and the compilation. It effectively departed from what made the original game good and also was popular enough to become influential.
 
I have an interesting perspective because Advent Children was my introduction to FF7. I liked it when I first watched it even though the plot was completely incomprehensible. I liked the action scenes, and at the time, the animation was superb.

I started to like it less after I played FF7, and much of it has to do with the original game's ending. FF7's ending is ambiguous. Near the end, you're told that the Planet could very well sacrifice humanity in an attempt to save itself from the Meteor if it felt as though humans were also a threat. And when you beat Sephiroth and the Meteor finally touches down, the Planet summons the Lifestream to destroy Meteor, but you ultimately never see what happens to humanity. The most you see is the ruins of Midgar centuries later. Sure, you can hear the laughter of children, but my takeaway is that you ultimately don't know if the Planet decided humanity was a threat too. All we know for sure is that Red XIII's species has survived and Midgar was destroyed. It's a bold way to end a game in my opinion, and I love that it's all shrouded in ambiguity.

Until you watch AC and find out, oh everything's fine. The humans? They all moved to a new city. To me that removes a lot of the mystique of the original ending, and in a way it devalues what that ending was going for. And this is a problem with a lot of the Compilation; it either adds nothing to the original story or it actively detracts from it.

There are other reasons too, like Cloud becoming a whiny emo bitch, forever coloring modern perspective of him, but for me personally it's the fact that the movie tries to provide an answer to a question that was never meant to have one, that being the original's ending.

I always figured the ending was kind of rushed, like the rest of the game.
 
I have an interesting perspective because Advent Children was my introduction to FF7. I liked it when I first watched it even though the plot was completely incomprehensible. I liked the action scenes, and at the time, the animation was superb.

I started to like it less after I played FF7, and much of it has to do with the original game's ending. FF7's ending is ambiguous. Near the end, you're told that the Planet could very well sacrifice humanity in an attempt to save itself from the Meteor if it felt as though humans were also a threat. And when you beat Sephiroth and the Meteor finally touches down, the Planet summons the Lifestream to destroy Meteor, but you ultimately never see what happens to humanity. The most you see is the ruins of Midgar centuries later. Sure, you can hear the laughter of children, but my takeaway is that you ultimately don't know if the Planet decided humanity was a threat too. All we know for sure is that Red XIII's species has survived and Midgar was destroyed. It's a bold way to end a game in my opinion, and I love that it's all shrouded in ambiguity.

Until you watch AC and find out, oh everything's fine. The humans? They all moved to a new city. To me that removes a lot of the mystique of the original ending, and in a way it devalues what that ending was going for. And this is a problem with a lot of the Compilation; it either adds nothing to the original story or it actively detracts from it.

There are other reasons too, like Cloud becoming a whiny emo bitch, forever coloring modern perspective of him, but for me personally it's the fact that the movie tries to provide an answer to a question that was never meant to have one, that being the original's ending.
I've always thought, if humanity did live, it was ironically only because of Sephiroth. If he didn't block Holy, and the party didn't need to kill him, then humans would have done very little to endear themselves to the planet. The planet would essentially say "oh the last Cetra died to pray for Holy, killed by some mutant made by humans who are slowly killing me? Yeah, fuck these gnats."
 
I never really got the "emo whiny bitch Cloud" thing for Advent Children. Does the brooding seem a little annoying? Sure, but the dude has a lot of things to be upset about; the mans lost his mother (the only bio family we've ever known him to have), his hometown, tortured by an amoral scientist, was mindfucked by an alien, left in vegetative state to only awaken moments before his best friend dies, and to top it all off... Loses his purpose. (Also he gets super aidscancer)

I think part of why post-Mideel Cloud is able to continue to keep up some of his "borrowed" cocky attitude and brave face is because he has a purpose for doing it: defeating Sephiroth, avenging Aerith, and saving the planet.

The Cloud we see in Advent Children... Lacks that. Without a grand purpose to direct himself towards we see a Cloud who doubts himself, for a lot of realistic reasons. His friends all need to go their separate ways, Tifa has the same kind of emotional baggage cloud does and doesn't know how to address their issues together, and likely has survivors guilt over Zack and Aerith.

While the movie doesn't display it super well that's effectively the point; Rufus Shinra even tries to utilize this in his first scene... He offers to give Cloud a purpose again. Ultimately he gets his bearings back when Tifa finally confronts the issues theyre having emotionally, Clouds friends return to support him (two even from beyond the grave), and Cloud manages to metaphorically destroy his doubts, fears, and guilt by slaying Sephiroth again.

I'm not saying it's high art or anything but there's some shit going on here people
 
I have a feeling I'm gonna get negrated to hell for this, but why is Advent Children so disliked? I've heard some of the reasons (Cloud going from an antisocial douchebag to an angsty emo cunt, a majority of the plot being relegated to tie-in novels, the weird pacing as a result of a chunk of the plot missing, Sephiroth's reappearance at the end being 100% fanservice, the washed-out color palette) but I don't feel like they cut to the heart of it.

I do not hate Advent Children. As the compilation stuff goes, it's way better than Dirge of Cerberus story-telling wise and at least we got to see the characters again. Cloud falling into a depression because of lingering illness and a loss of purpose after Meteor was pushed back by the planet never bothered me. Anyone would be depressed under those circumstances and he was never a jolly guy even as a child.

What is annoying about Advent Children is that it sucks as a film. It's not well structured as a movie. It fails to introduce the new characters, it does a bad job of explaining the conflict (Rufus's monologue had a good soundtrack and that was about it), and like @Berrakh said a lot of problems are baked into how the conflict is presented. The movie is built around its flashy action sequences, which is fine, but then it tries to have emotional pathos when it has done nothing to make the audience invested beyond very surface level shallow reasons: you're supposed to be worried about the mind controlled children because...they're children! You're supposed to care about children especially this Denzel kid you never met before! You're supposed to cheer for Tifa when she has that cool church fight and...look, just because she gets clowned on in the next ten seconds of the movie doesn't make that fight meaningless to the story okay, you're just supposed to like the visuals! Etc. And then it tries to up the ante by bringing back Aeris as a Lifestream ghost and she speaks to Cloud from beyond the grave in an Obi-wan Kenobi style advice-giver sequence. And apparently she lives in the Lifestream water now or something and can talk to Cloud telepathically.

And then there's the fact that Sephiroth is the main villain, again. Like, shouldn't Cloud and the others move on to new villains? At least Dirge of Cerberus tried to introduce Deep Ground instead of retreading Sephiroth again. Sephiroth as a villain for AC worked as fanservice but that's all it will be.

So yeah. Advent Children isn't the shitjob that uber fans can make it out to be but the problem is that it was built as fanservice from the ground up. So if you go in expecting an actual movie then you'll be disappointed. It's a very stupid story that's built on current day Hollywood trends of going "remember this character?! remember when this happened?! buy our product because you recognize these characters!"

I would put Advent Children on the same level as the Dead Fantasy fanvids. It's perfectly fine but that's really all it can ever be since they didn't put any thought into actually telling a coherent story.

Or as someone wiser than me said:

rlm.jpg
 
I also think a lot of people disliked the Compilation for getting characters wrong and AC started that. Vincent goes from just being a quiet loner to the Vampire King of Emo, Aerith goes from spirited and vivacious to generic healer lady, Tifa goes from down to earth to essentially trying to nag depression away. And it takes a good idea, the idea that Cloud isn't just going to get over the people he failed, Aeris in particular, and waters it down in a dumb plot about clones. People would have loved a movie really centered around getting closure and maybe a slow build to finding out Aeris is "there" and forgives him but nah. Obviously you need action and a bad guy but those clone guys were not it. They really did not mirror Cloud's growth at all. I think there was an interesting idea where they think Aeris is "mother" for some reason, so maybe people trying to hijack her memory just like Cloud uses it to hurt himself would have been more appropriate?
 
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I guess being divorced from Final Fantasy for so long gave me a skewed impression of its fanbase. I'm shocked so many people don't think this crap is utterly retarded. "They might do something interesting with it!" Even if that wasn't insanely optimistic, the stuff they have done with it is already fucking stupid. The game goes full Advent Children over one of its most iconic sequences, nothing makes sense, the dialogue is crap, the characters reactions to all this are baffling.

I'm too old for anime I guess.
 
I guess being divorced from Final Fantasy for so long gave me a skewed impression of its fanbase. I'm shocked so many people don't think this crap is utterly exceptional. "They might do something interesting with it!" Even if that wasn't insanely optimistic, the stuff they have done with it is already fucking stupid. The game goes full Advent Children over one of its most iconic sequences, nothing makes sense, the dialogue is crap, the characters reactions to all this are baffling.

I'm too old for anime I guess.

Final Fantasy is Dungeons and Dragons put through an anime filter, and always has been.
 
I guess being divorced from Final Fantasy for so long gave me a skewed impression of its fanbase. I'm shocked so many people don't think this crap is utterly exceptional. "They might do something interesting with it!" Even if that wasn't insanely optimistic, the stuff they have done with it is already fucking stupid. The game goes full Advent Children over one of its most iconic sequences, nothing makes sense, the dialogue is crap, the characters reactions to all this are baffling.

I'm too old for anime I guess.
Heave you played any of the post game bosses or anything on hard Mode? The Combat is very intense.

People are optimistic because the gameplay was handled with such care. They hit all the high notes right and have a solid base to work with for future sequels. Any negatives are greatly outshined by the positives.
 
I guess being divorced from Final Fantasy for so long gave me a skewed impression of its fanbase. I'm shocked so many people don't think this crap is utterly exceptional. "They might do something interesting with it!" Even if that wasn't insanely optimistic, the stuff they have done with it is already fucking stupid. The game goes full Advent Children over one of its most iconic sequences, nothing makes sense, the dialogue is crap, the characters reactions to all this are baffling.

I'm too old for anime I guess.
Just to make sure you don't have any misconceptions, I'm not in the camp that thinks the remake and its potential sequels could amount to anything other than Nomura having a fat wank. The worst of my transgressions is not thinking Advent Children is the worst thing I've ever experienced, FF7-related or otherwise. Also what do you mean by going full Advent Children, exactly?
 
They had to include series staples early to drive home that this was a full game. So you get shit like Bahamut and Sephiroth in large amounts because it's technically the beginning of the game and they needed to make smaller details more epic.

The highway assault boss having far more multiple stages than the original is a big example of this. Hell Eligor was just a regular trash mob in the original as was Hellhouse and those are considered some of the tougher fights.

Supposedly Yuffie will steal your shit justifying a power reset in either the DLC or the next full game. I'm going to say DLC because they're going to want to introduce the open world aspects early before the sequel, much like they did with Kingdom hearts and Aqua's stand alone game. If rumors are true they're going to make a Physical release for PS4 of the Original HD FF7 release and bundle Remake Standalone Short game with it. Maybe they'll package 8 with it just like they did with the Switch release and have a trifecta of new 7 DLC Short game and two HD re-releases.

This review pretty much explains why the game is as successful as it is.
 
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Replaying through FF7 after watching an FF7R playthrough. Hate to be a dick here but I feel like if they went with a 1:1 remake of the original, it would've been boring as fuck. That, and high-fidelity graphics would've marred my image of the original game. Kinda glad they went this way with FF7R

My only complaint is that they don't ease the transition between the ending and the rest of the game enough. Sure, you've got time ghosts or whatever, but to go from slight changes to an entire fighting a literal manifested personification of destiny at the end of time is a bit much

Why? The story is just as entertaining today as it was 20+ years ago and I don't think anyone asked, specifically, for the design they went with. To me, it's pretty bland and it wouldn't work with anything, it's pretty by the numbers. But you can overlook this stuff if there is a great story....which the original had.

I guess i just don't understand the logic of "I'm glad they went the route with a trash ass fan fic".
 
They had to include series staples early to drive home that this was a full game. So you get shit like Bahamut and Sephiroth in large amounts because it's technically the beginning of the game and they needed to make smaller details more epic.

Not to the extent they did at least as far as Sephiroth goes. There's no reason they could have saved him for a later installment or at the very least considered Cloud having skirmished with him alone in the past in Nibelheim so that that segment could just be skipped.

Supposedly Yuffie will steal your shit justifying a power reset in either the DLC or the next full game

...you know. That might be perhaps one of the only times that video game trope actually make sense.

Why? The story is just as entertaining today as it was 20+ years ago and I don't think anyone asked, specifically, for the design they went with. To me, it's pretty bland and it wouldn't work with anything, it's pretty by the numbers. But you can overlook this stuff if there is a great story....which the original had.

I guess i just don't understand the logic of "I'm glad they went the route with a trash ass fan fic".

I don't get it either. The only possible thing(s) I can think of as to what they want to do besides play on people's nostalgia is either re-work the story as a potential love story where the theme could be how much is one life (Aeris) worth or give us a kingdom hearts like ending. The latter is of course stupid. The former could work perhaps, but I just can't see why it would have been necessary to include Zack Fair, time ghosts, fate, etc. in order to accomplish that. Even then though, I don't see how that warrants a whole remake.
 
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Heave you played any of the post game bosses or anything on hard Mode? The Combat is very intense.

People are optimistic because the gameplay was handled with such care. They hit all the high notes right and have a solid base to work with for future sequels. Any negatives are greatly outshined by the positives.
I play things besides JRPGs so realize that even the best JRPGs have mediocre combat at best.

Just to make sure you don't have any misconceptions, I'm not in the camp that thinks the remake and its potential sequels could amount to anything other than Nomura having a fat wank. The worst of my transgressions is not thinking Advent Children is the worst thing I've ever experienced, FF7-related or otherwise. Also what do you mean by going full Advent Children, exactly?
I'll give you that but only because Dirge of Cerberus exists.

"Full Advent Children": Nonsense dialogue followed by throwing the entire Shinra building at the party and then everyone flying like it's DBZ.
 
I'll give you that but only because Dirge of Cerberus exists.

"Full Advent Children": Nonsense dialogue followed by throwing the entire Shinra building at the party and then everyone flying like it's DBZ.
I was thinking of Crisis Core personally, but it would probably be an alright game if it didn't have the faggy pop star's Original Character Do Not Steal (and if it were released for a console that people actually played). Admittedly I have a bit of a soft spot for Dirge of Cerberus, I find its misguided edginess charming.
Also being able to stick a 2/3-foot long barrel on a handgun is funny to me.
DoC_Long_Barrel.jpg
 
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