The Final Fantasy Thread

[Jordi El Nino Polla]

Honestly, FFVII was one of the few pieces of media I've seen that do subversion of expectations well

It did it alright. But I think FF7 has a lot of its convoluted nature mistaken for depth. I would still say that FF6 did it better.

 

[Radical Cadre]

Final Fantasy VI vs Final Fantasy VII fight!!!!

Never 6get: Final Fantasy VI: The World Is Square (long read, great series)

 

[LightDragonman1]

Right, but FF7 was mostly FF6 with a more consistent world design.

It did it alright. But I think FF7 has a lot of its convoluted nature mistaken for depth. I would still say that FF6 did it better.

How so? I know that one of the main twists of FFVI is Kefka destroying the world after usurping the supposed villain, but what else does it do?

Being a newbie to the franchise, I'm curious.

 

[Jordi El Nino Polla]

How so? I know that one of the main twists of FFVI is Kefka destroying the world after usurping the supposed villain, but what else does it do?

Being a newbie to the franchise, I'm curious.

Each of the main characters have their own twists and turns. Locke's real reason for fighting, Celes' self-loathing, Terra's origin, power and finding her confidence, Edgar and Sabin's relationship, Cyan ;_;7 and the very neat subtle clues the developers scattered around between Shadow, Strago and Relm. I'm trying to keep it vague. Definitely play the game. There is a ton going on even in terms of animations and the way scenes are set up despite it being a SNES game. And I didn't get through all the characters. Even the lesser playable characters have their own neat little stories.

Since you know the big twist we can talk about that. It is both a subversion in terms of general scenario and in terms of game design. On the one hand you see the heroes confront the big bad and lose. He scatters the party, destroys the world and becomes a god that rules with fear and absolute power. And on the other hand you have a game design that cleverly weaves a very detailed tutorial and story together. The entire first third-to-half of the game teaches the player every system in a well-paced and entertaining fashion. Then the bad guy wins and the game changes; the tutorial is over and you have to start from scratch.

Thematically the game is very different after this as well. You are fighting to save a broken, doomed world. Even after you win the world isn't magically repaired. Death and destruction still remain everywhere. Your victory amounts to resolving a personal vendetta and to say that you "saved the world" rings hollow considering it is in ruins. There is a lot to Final Fantasy 6. And it does get its due which is good.

Final Fantasy 7 is a great game as well and I think the time of its release and its use of newer technology play a huge role in its popularity. Which is why I like to exercise pause when praising it because FF7 does stand on the shoulders of the game that came before it and I think moreso than other entries in the series. Before 7 came out, 6 was talked about in much the same way in places where games were discussed. And while Final Fantasy always had a following, FF6 really had that sort of broad appeal that the earlier games never achieved. 6 and 7 are the peak of the series, each occupying the ultimate rise and gradual decline of Final Fantasy. They are very interesting games and I really think you can't talk about one without discussing the other.

And you look at 6 and compare it to 7 and see a full realization of the storytelling techniques that were a struggle to achieve on the Super Nintendo. The added detail that the PS1 was able to bring out with prerendered backgrounds and improved combat scenes breathed a whole new life into the genre. At their core though both games exhibit compelling characters and interesting (though sometimes bad) writing. 6 perfected Square's storytelling style and 7 joined that style with the technology that the developers had always wanted. After this unique period in the franchise's history the shackles of limited technology were largely removed and unfortunately the series never recovered from that lack of restraint.

 

[Captain Syrup]

The Story works, except the ending, FF7 is one of those endings that tries to be way to smart and trips over itself because of it.

I get what they were (probably) going for: Midgar's citizenry have sought harmony with nature.

They should have just ended on this:

Aerith's face in the opener is actually a spoiler for the end. She spoke to the Lifestream. Her fate was predetermined.

Never 6get: (long read, great series)

He goes on to completely trash 10. At the same time, I can see his points are not invalid.

 

[Muttnik]

FFVII's biggest appeal for me is def the characters. Between successfully subverting expectations in a positive way, there's tons of playful, rather sweet moments between everyone that resonates well. Cloud has a few more layers to him than your typical edgy anime protagonist and Sephiroth manages to be a huge scary threat while also having a few scraps of sympathy in his backstory to keep him from feeling like a typical villain. Aerith and Tifa, for as much as the internet lewds them, are both very defined and both are integral to the plot. Barret isn't the wisecracking token but is, in fact, a supportive friend and a loving father.

Everyone is great. I love them. Quality animu main characters.

 

[Captain Syrup]

Barret isn't the wisecracking token

Barret spitting some truths:

You are fighting to save a broken, doomed world.

I like how the WoB is slouching towards extinction. Even Kefka seems like a symptom, rather than a cause.

 

[Snekposter]

Barret isn't the wisecracking token but is, in fact, a supportive friend and a loving father.

This is how you know its a straight-up fantasy. A black man not just sticking around for his daughter, but doing everything he can to make the world a better place for her to grow up in.

 

[Berrakh]

This is how you know its a straight-up fantasy. A black man not just sticking around for his daughter, but doing everything he can to make the world a better place for her to grow up in.

And not his own daughter. If you’ve played that far…

Barret spitting some truths:
View attachment 2952251

I like how the WoB is slouching towards extinction. Even Kefka seems like a symptom, rather than a cause.

The one time Barrett is unambiguously correct

 

[Tuxedo_Zemus]

Gibs FF6 remaster already.

 

[Captain Syrup]

And not his own daughter. If you’ve played that far…

I never bought the "everyone's dead, Meteor spell was successful" theory (before it was retconned by AC).

With how gnarly the backstory was with Dyne, they probably wouldn't end it by killing Marlene.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

Gibs FF6 remaster already.

No, FF6 Remaster will be shit.

They apparently aren't doing the Bonus Content from later versions so No Dragon's Den and Kaiser Dragon fight which was a great addition to the GBA version.

I get what they were probably going for (Midgar's citizenry have sought harmony with nature). But it should have just ended on this:

Nah, it should have ended with everyone partying after Holy comes out of the Crater, upper cutting Meteor into the sun and giving it the Finger, the whole "ermerg Holy is helping Meteor because HUMANS ARE THE REAL THREAT" was FF7's first real moment of Gay and Stupid.

 

[Tuxedo_Zemus]

No, FF6 Remaster will be shit.

They apparently aren't doing the Bonus Content from later versions so No Dragon's Den and Kaiser Dragon fight which was a great addition to the GBA version.

Oh who gives a fuck. The extra content was lame aside from FF4 letting you swap out party members. These are better remasters than most that you see, they're trying very hard to both give a faithful adaptation of the originals while also giving them some of the perks of modern gaming such as sound quality and presentation.

I think that's what most fans of the pixel remasters are looking for, something that stays true to the originals while elevating certain parts that might benefit from it. The little bits that have been shown make it seem like certain moments like the opera scene are going to be given a new level of gravity, which is something that interests me about this game in particular.

 

[Berrakh]

Nah, it should have ended with everyone partying after Holy comes out of the Crater, upper cutting Meteor into the sun and giving it the Finger, the whole "ermerg Holy is helping Meteor because HUMANS ARE THE REAL THREAT" was FF7's first real moment of Gay and Stupid.

I never interpreted the ending as humanity dying. That too sounds like something the fanbase confected to sound profound.

We hear kids laughing and playing. Moreover Holy was prayed for by Aerith on behalf of the humans she knew. It would be really dissonant for humanity to die.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

Oh who gives a fuck.

I do because The Bonus dungeons were great and there is no reason to cut them. Especially the Dragon's Den because the 8 Dragon Rematches were cool fights (aside from Holy Dragon because Strago Rapes the holy shit out of it)

 

[Radical Cadre]

Gibs FF6 remaster already.

Square-Enix is a pale shadow of Squaresoft. They would completely botch it. Even if they farmed it out to another studio, Square would find a way to ruin it.

 

[Tuxedo_Zemus]

I do because The Bonus dungeons were great and there is no reason to cut them. Especially the Dragon's Den because the 8 Dragon Rematches were cool fights (aside from Holy Dragon because Strago Rapes the holy shit out of it)

Come on dude, the Dragon's Den is the worst out of all of them. I beat the GBA version twice, and both times I did the dungeon twice so I could fight Omega Weapon too. That dungeon is an overly long and convoluted mess, and the first time you do it is even more of a pain in the ass because you have to putz around with your 3 teams, looking for dragons to kill so you can unlock the doors. It's the only dungeon in the game that made me hate random battles because it is so drawn out and obnoxious.

I get not liking the fact that they didn't put the content in, but I'm saying that they aren't missing anything by leaving it out.

 

[Dr. Geronimo]

I genuinely have no idea what the fuck you guys are talking about regarding 7's ending. I thought it was really clear:

Holy was too late to stop Meteor, so the planet had to do the work itself with the lifestream. In the ending Midgar is abandoned but you hear kids laughing, so not everyone died.

 

[Berrakh]

I genuinely have no idea what the fuck you guys are talking about regarding 7's ending. I thought it was really clear:

Holy was too late to stop Meteor, so the planet had to do the work itself with the lifestream. In the ending Midgar is abandoned but you hear kids laughing, so not everyone died.

Same. It feels like another Fandom Moment to pretend otherwise.

 

[Jordi El Nino Polla]

I genuinely have no idea what the fuck you guys are talking about regarding 7's ending. I thought it was really clear:

Holy was too late to stop Meteor, so the planet had to do the work itself with the lifestream. In the ending Midgar is abandoned but you hear kids laughing, so not everyone died.

Yeah it was pretty clear both from the dialog and imagery.

I played the game many times but was always unclear on why the lifestream was also constrained. My assumption was that Aeris was also constrained by Sephiroth/Jenova's magic seeing as it is implied that Aeris' spirit (and not just the planet) was responsible for rallying the lifestream. The constraint being that Aeris likely had to sustain Holy from the attempts to diminish it. Though none of this is ever explicitly stated.

Before that, the planet had already tried and failed with WEAPON to fight off the forces of Sephiroth and Shinra. Which leads me to the conclusion that Aeris is why the lifestream stopped Meteor, not the planet. It is probably thanks to Bungenhagen teaching her that it all worked out in the end.