The Final Fantasy Thread

I love the discourse about FF7 because the guys who know why it was good are all casual fans or appreciators of it. Not tied to the fanbase at all. So they, correctly, see past all the lore and baggage to find a great little ps1 game with terrific pacing and an engaging story. That's it. That's why FF7 was good. Dunkey and Yahtzee are better evaluators than any FF7 e-celeb.

While fans think it was good because it has their particular faves. "It was good because Cloud has a great backstory". Well, no, we only care about his backstory because the story as a whole was good. Your mundane appreciation for a single story element isn't the whole story, sport.


Hold on, let me pull my Hyperon brand Translator

"FF7 is the most normie friendly entry because it is the one RPG most guys in their late 20's and 30's played first and thus built an attachment to it. The pandering around FF7 had different basis initicially, before it used to be because it is the one the normies, not even necessarily fans of the series, knew and now its also because it makes these fans feel young again."

There ya go. Buy Hyperion
 
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Yes, yes it is. As in "SPOILER ALERT: AERIS DIES" was making the rounds for a while in the... early-mid 00's? Its almost like nobody expected it and her passing made the eventual victory against Sephiroth all the more impactful.
That’s the intended impact but the actual impact is the opposite. Treated like a guest character instead of integral to the concept and story.
 
That’s the intended impact but the actual impact is the opposite. Treated like a guest character instead of integral to the concept and story.
But isn't one of FF7's biggest themes meant to be about moving on from death? So naturally having Aerith die and Cloud move on to defeat Sephiroth be part of that? Just because she doesn't exist 24/7 after death doesn't mean she doesn't matter and is a guest character, the fact she's a normal party member at first and dies is what makes the impact important. If she's just some random NPC that follows you, that makes her death more obvious because people are expecting NPCs to die and not party members. If they make it too obvious the impact doesn't work, but if the intention is for her to die then she has to die at some point.

People meme about Aerith's death because this is the modern day internet and it was 20+ years ago, so most people aren't really crying to this anymore and people who play FF7 today are likely somewhat put off by its graphical age despite how impressive it was 20+ years ago. So what else is their to do but joke about it especially given 7R might take it out or even worse make it some DLC route? People will meme and joke about every dramatic scene ever. People make fun of every dramatic story with high emotional impact somewhere, that's just what happens nowadays especially within franchises with big fanbases like FF7, even if by doing this it devalues what those scenes originally meant. That's just normal modern day internet discourse which FF7 wasn't made with that in mind.
 
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Yes, yes it is. As in "SPOILER ALERT: AERIS DIES" was making the rounds for a while in the... early-mid 00's? Its almost like nobody expected it and her passing made the eventual victory against Sephiroth all the more impactful.
Ok, cool. Myself and a ton of other people played it in the 90s. Let's not pretend this is a Snape Kills Dumbledore tier joke because it wasn't.
 
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But isn't one of FF7's biggest themes meant to be about moving on from death? So naturally having Aerith die and Cloud move on to defeat Sephiroth be part of that? Just because she doesn't exist 24/7 after death doesn't mean she doesn't matter and is a guest character, the fact she's a normal party member at first and dies is what makes the impact important. If she's just some random NPC that follows you, that makes her death more obvious because people are expecting NPCs to die and not party members. If they make it too obvious the impact doesn't work, but if the intention is for her to die then she has to die at some point.

People meme about Aerith's death because this is the modern day internet and it was 20+ years ago, so most people aren't really crying to this anymore and people who play FF7 today are likely somewhat put off by its graphical age despite how impressive it was 20+ years ago. So what else is their to do but joke about it especially given 7R might take it out or even worse make it some DLC route? People will meme and joke about every dramatic scene ever. People make fun of every dramatic story with high emotional impact somewhere, that's just what happens nowadays especially within franchises with big fanbases like FF7, even if by doing this it devalues what those scenes originally meant. That's just normal modern day internet discourse which FF7 wasn't made with that in mind.
“Move on” is such a vague term. Clearly there’s a difference between a series that moved Cloud to AC seeking closure with her fate and how the fandom sees things. Moving On was not about pretending she wasn’t important lol.

Just by the vague way you phrased it you sort of proved my point imo.

And the phrasing didn’t seem to parse that I’m talking about how a fanbase revised an event instead of what the event was actually trying to convey. I’m not saying she seems like a guest party member to me, I’m saying that’s what I’ve gleaned from the discourse. But that’s because I can actually remember the game in some detail. Most of the NPCs who play it cannot, so as a plot detail it’s not really working out since they’re the vast majority (and pandered to).

But you’re right it is about Moving On: IE not repeating things based on inertia alone.

So killing her, without a fresh angle, is uninspired at this point.
 
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“Move on” is such a vague term. Clearly there’s a difference between a series that moved Cloud to AC seeking closure with her fate and how the fandom sees things. Moving On was not about pretending she wasn’t important lol.

Just by the vague way you phrased it you sort of proved my point imo.

And the phrasing didn’t seem to parse that I’m talking about how a fanbase revised an event instead of what the event was actually trying to convey. I’m not saying she seems like a guest party member to me, I’m saying that’s what I’ve gleaned from the discourse. But that’s because I can actually remember the game in some detail. Most of the NPCs who play it cannot, so as a plot detail it’s not really working out since they’re the vast majority (and pandered to).

But you’re right it is about Moving On: IE not repeating things based on inertia alone.

So killing her, without a fresh angle, is uninspired at this point.
Its more so that I haven't touched FF7 in forever and it isn't my favorite game or anything like it is for some, so I don't fully recall everything in its fullest. I still believe Aerith's death is a core part of the story though based on my rough recollection of its plot and themes. I can't fully recount many plots in many games that I like, that's just a me thing.

Also "the fanbase" in everything revises a lot of scenes and characters whenever the collective internet brain trust decides to turn (or just ignore entirely) emotional moments into jokes to make memes. DMC is an example of this as many people due to memes boil Dante down to "wacky wahoo pizza man" and while he isn't the deepest or most depressing character in fiction by a long shot, the man still lost his parents and thought he lost his brother for the longest time. Nero is a man with a deadbeat dad who gets his arm ripped off by said dad because his dad is greedy, but no one cares about that because "LMAO DEADWEIGHT, FUCK YOU" meme. The same can also be said for Vergil who is just "I AM THE STORM THAT IS APPROACHING ON MY PLASTIC CHAIR" man now in the worst way, while ignoring how Vergil serves as a foil for Dante.

Yes DMC is not a major deep drama at all and is played pretty light hearted most the time, but their are people who have reduced the entire story into stupid jokes, memes, and only the comedy to the point where the original character is almost lost, especially to more casual fans. While I can chuckle at Vergil's stupid chair I still can acknowledge his actual character for what it is, same with Dante. Dante is not just wacky wahoo pizza man to me, unlike apparently 80% or so of the internet that knows him.

Raiden from MGS is forever bound to all the MGR memes, especially in recent times, that ignore all of what his actual story is in favor of whatever joke they want to use. Raiden's a pretty fucked up character given his history, but you wouldn't really know that because a lot of people just remember him wearing a sombrero in MGR as a quick gag and he loses his arm to a double jumping Brazilian who has the "THERE WILL BE BLOOD-SHED" theme, which is more like a joke then something actually impactful now.

Xenoblade Chronicles 1 has some pretty big emotional moments for some people and Shulk goes through a lot of stuff in that game, but most people just remember Shulk as "I'm really feeling it!" man because it became a meme due to Smash. NPC redditors and their ilk will boil down many characters in media to quotable memes and other random dumbshit, that is just the internet, that doesn't mean the actual story didn't happen and it doesn't count. People meme on everything, especially if its popular. Stories should not be decided and determined overall by what random people on social media think is important to care about, but on what is actually within the story by itself.

As for your very last point, I mean this I think can be part of the overarching question of if FF7R should even exist anyway the way they decided to remake it? Which I think has been discussed to death at this point. I suppose I can see your point if that's your argument, but I think within the context of original 7, Aerith death is sacred and important.
 
All this arguments about Aerith's death and here I am, drinking a coffee mug that says

"Galuf's death was better/sadder"

Old man was literally too angry to die at Ex-death and kept going even when his HP hit zero. All for the crime of daring to hurt his granddaughter and friends. He furiously say he will send Ex-death to Hell even if he has drag him there himself. He literally forces Ex-death to retreat for the first time in the game.

Then his friends literally try all they can to save him, from items and spells but its clear it wasnt enough. He dies but does so at peace knowing he saved those closest to him and they will carry on the fight against Ex-death.

Then Galuf's spirit gives his granddaughter all his skills and items (for gameplay purposes) while saying he will always be with her.


God damn that is heart breaking.

But hey, FF 5 wasnt most people's first FF game so it doesnt count. But it was the first time they legit killed a main member of the game in the series (no, FF4 doesnt count because Tellah wasnt really a main member and every other death was literally retconned at the end).
 
Nomura had a statement today about Part 2 which is... well basically they're already rationing the number of locations we will see. Don't worry, we will totally see them. Just not...in Part 2.

It's like having a group project with a lazy kid who always needs "another day" to deliver.

Doubly funny because the fanbase wants Part 2 to go as far as the Whirlwind Maze/Northern Crater. Which is not a very good stopping point compared to the natural one of Aerith's Death (where disc 1 stopped) and now looks like too much work for Square Enix.

Aerith's Death is one of the most iconic moments in gaming history, up there with the Nuke from Modern Warfare and Pulling Out The Master Sword in Ocarina of Time. It's so obviously a fitting close to Part 2 but instead the fans want it to end on Cloud losing his mind (which we know he'll get back, and is content Part 3 will desperately need).

It's a Midwit Fanbase. Constantly fixing what isn't broken. And can't realize how behind the 8-ball their corporate benefactors are.
If part 2 ends at the northern crater then part 3 will be short and boring. I wonder if people forget that disc 3 is only a few hours long, and certainly not even close to as interesting as Midgar.
 
Ending part 2 after the WEAPONs wake up is a good end to get Reddit fags soying up theories and its shocking twist that Cloud falls to his death in the Lifestream.... except for the fact everyone fucking knows Cloud survives lol.
 
All this arguments about Aerith's death and here I am, drinking a coffee mug that says

"Galuf's death was better/sadder"

Old man was literally too angry to die at Ex-death and kept going even when his HP hit zero. All for the crime of daring to hurt his granddaughter and friends. He furiously say he will send Ex-death to Hell even if he has drag him there himself. He literally forces Ex-death to retreat for the first time in the game.

Then his friends literally try all they can to save him, from items and spells but its clear it wasnt enough. He dies but does so at peace knowing he saved those closest to him and they will carry on the fight against Ex-death.

Then Galuf's spirit gives his granddaughter all his skills and items (for gameplay purposes) while saying he will always be with her.


God damn that is heart breaking.

But hey, FF 5 wasnt most people's first FF game so it doesnt count. But it was the first time they legit killed a main member of the game in the series (no, FF4 doesnt count because Tellah wasnt really a main member and every other death was literally retconned at the end).
It wasn’t heartbreaking. It was epic and cool. And as you say it didn’t really matter because he’s replaceable. There is a profound lack of balls comparing killing an old man with a replacement in tow compared to killing a young girl who can’t be efficiently replaced.

So I profoundly disagree

There’s more to a moment than just describing it with tumblr-tier quotes. Which makes it a hipster thing. It’s predictable. I can set my watch to it.

Also it just trivializes Death. Galuf isn’t really gone. He went out looking awesome. People can apparently just destroy their obscenely powerful foes in a prolonged scripted battle if they’re mad enough so really all threats are trivialized. It’s Rule of Cool. While Aerith’s is a reminder there are genuine stakes even if you can throw a dinosaur around in the combat screen,
If part 2 ends at the northern crater then part 3 will be short and boring. I wonder if people forget that disc 3 is only a few hours long, and certainly not even close to as interesting as Midgar.
Exactly! All the action will be somewhat pointless anti-shinra busywork and all the story will just be the resolution to Cloud’s identity in a really long cutscene. Not even the buildup. Just the solution.
 
If part 2 ends at the northern crater then part 3 will be short and boring. I wonder if people forget that disc 3 is only a few hours long,
They will just fill it with 10 hours of some faggot on a bike that is thirsty over Cloud like they did with the first part.
 
They will just fill it with 10 hours of some faggot on a bike that is thirsty over Cloud like they did with the first part.
Me: I don’t think they should fill it in with faggot shit. Just leave all disc 2 story beats for part 3

Eternal Squaroid: “no! My favorite streamer said it would be really awesome. You should see how big his mouth got!”
 
Aerith will 100% be penetrated by Sephi, the only question is if she will revive the same game or it will be the sequel hook, and whether that will be some random sidequest or involve time travel.
The other option is Zack getting the long shaft inserted into him.
 
Aerith will 100% be penetrated by Sephi, the only question is if she will revive the same game or it will be the sequel hook, and whether that will be some random sidequest or involve time travel.
The other option is Zack getting the long shaft inserted into him.
Just give it a fresh angle. Otherwise it’s tradition for its own sake. And likely won’t make sense for the new story.
 
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Aerith will 100% be penetrated by Sephi, the only question is if she will revive the same game or it will be the sequel hook, and whether that will be some random sidequest or involve time travel.
Nothing is 100% certain at this point, now that they've thrown in time travel shenanigans and have an active ongoing theme of "defying fate". At this point, the most we can say is that the story will follow the same vague story beats and visit most, if not all, of the same places, just expanded and with the addition of some new ones.
 
Nothing is 100% certain at this point, now that they've thrown in time travel shenanigans and have an active ongoing theme of "defying fate". At this point, the most we can say is that the story will follow the same vague story beats and visit most, if not all, of the same places, just expanded and with the addition of some new ones.
It's pretty clear the makers are deadset on having every iconic scene, and this is probably the biggest one. The only question is if the target will be different. Not having the scene be fatal will be a huge copout, having time traveling will let the devs have their aerith cake and eat it
 
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