The Final Fantasy Thread

[LoverofPi]

He's not a recollection of Shuyin. He's what you come up with after dreaming a literal 1000 years of people who live, have kids, die, etc. etc. etc. He looks a bit like Shuyin because these things happen, but he's about as much of Shuyin's doppleganger as Yuna is Lenne's.

 

[Berrakh]

He's not a recollection of Shuyin. He's what you come up with after dreaming a literal 1000 years of people who live, have kids, die, etc. etc. etc. He looks a bit like Shuyin because these things happen, but he's about as much of Shuyin's doppleganger as Yuna is Lenne's.

That sounds exactly like what I said— an imperfect recollection of Shuyin, which are also (approximately) the words used in game.

And he’s quite a bit more a Shuyin doppelganger than Yuna is a Lenne one since they look the same and like blitzball/swords. And presumably Auron/Jecht since they ‘recognize’ Tidus? Lenne/Yuna are kind of a bad way to make that point so I’d focus on the two older men to explain the distinction you were getting at.

 

[LoverofPi]

The distinction is that Dream Zanarkand is not and was never meant to be a snapshot of Zanarkand as it was 1000 years ago, but an idealized version of it if it was allowed to thrive in its glory days instead of being destroyed. The city hasn't changed much, but Jecht isn't a recreation of someone 1000 years ago, Auron comes from real Spira but was able to slip into the world with nothing going wrong and openly raise Tidus. Tidus himself grew up. The people of Dream Zanarkand are ontologically tied to the fayth but are otherwise as real as anyone else on Spira, including reproduction happening normally. (All of that is confirmed in the FF10 Ulti, BTW)

It's entirely possible Tidus is a descendant of Dream Zanarkand's version of Shuyin, but Shuyin is not his template in universe.

 

[Berrakh]

It's entirely possible Tidus is a descendant of Dream Zanarkand's version of Shuyin, but Shuyin is not his template in universe.

Ah I see. There’s another layer. It’s not that Tidus appeared one day as a flawed memory of Shuyin with memories also based on Shuyin’s life but is someone born and raised in the dream who happened to fit a Shuyin preset.

Fits the ultimania’s tradition of making the stories seem more contrived but I’ll take it.

Edit: I searched around too and I don’t really buy the Not His Template thing however. One it contradicts the in-game explanation too brazenly. And for another everyone else repeats something similar, that the fayth based Tidus on Shuyin. With some debate about if Dream Zanarkand has no concept of time and it’s forever stuck or if the Fayth just repopulate it with new citizens based on old templates that merely appears like natural reproduction.

I have also learned not to trust references to Ultimanias I haven’t read, even though I am also guilty of citing them (but in my case I am just lazy).

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

At the end of X-2, Tidus comes back because the Fayth, as thanks to Yuna, are willing to dream for one lifetime longer to reform Tidus's body so he and Yuna can have a life together.

There's also some more stuff from the X-2.5 novel, where there's another type of summoning made from the summoner's imagination, and Tidus is revealed to actually be one of these formed from Yuna's memory of him and he could think himself out of existence if he ever become self-aware of this and has an existential crisis, kind of like what happened to Alucard in Hellsing. But that's all a bit silly and trying to set up stuff for a X-3 that will probably not happen because it's a bad idea, so take that as you will.

Doesn't the 2.5 stuff contradict the 2 stuff? Sounds like it, unless there's an explanation somewhere. I hope X-3 does happen, but [insert obligatory concern over Wokeism here].

 

[Retarded Weeb]

Doesn't the 2.5 stuff contradict the 2 stuff? Sounds like it, unless there's an explanation somewhere. I hope X-3 does happen, but [insert obligatory concern over Wokeism here].

I think there was some kind of explanation of how it worked that Tidus was turned into that type of summoning, I don't quite the remember the details. I haven't read the full book (since there's no scans of it online or anything), just read a couple plot summaries in English and Japanese.

This is the same novel where the whole thing where Tidus gets blown up by a bomb disguised as a Blitzball comes from. Plus some other silly stuff like Tidus telling Yuna he can't focus on fighting fiends because he's distracted by how horny he is over her. Also the plot centered a bunch around the characters having to dick around these Unsent from 1000 years ago and their relationship drama because they're in a love triangle and one of the guys was literally cucked by the other guy as he was dying. The novel is really poorly received in Japan. Which I guess might be why it wasn't officially translated, despite being written by X and X-2's main writer.

The main X-3 setup though was that audio drama which people were also negative on, and I can't say it sounds that great myself since the premise being "somehow, Sin has returned" sounds pretty lame. Even if the character design sketches Nomura made for older Tidus and Yuna look nice and I do trust Nojima would probably write something interesting for the relationship drama stuff. In fact, that part doesn't sound that bad for the 2.5 novel, it's more the stuff wrapped around it. Considering this and how VIII was like (the one FF game that was solely written by him), I get the impression Nojima can write interesting relationship drama but is bad at writing the details to the fantasy action and world-building stuff around it.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

Plus some other silly stuff like Tidus telling Yuna he can't focus on fighting fiends because he's distracted by how horny he is over her.

Okay, maybe X-3 would be a bad idea after all...

one of the guys was literally cucked by the other guy as he was dying.

Damn, I hope he gets his revenge

The main X-3 setup though was that audio drama which people were also negative on, and I can't say it sounds that great myself since the premise being "somehow, Sin has returned" sounds pretty lame.

It could work if it's not lazily done. It may also just seem like Sin but actually isn't, or maybe it's brought back by another evil summoner or something. Could be something they deal with very early on and then there's much more to the plot. I'd give it a chance.

 

[Tom Bombodildo]

No hate, but this whole conversation really makes me wonder what people see in FFX as a JRPG. I didn't like the story in the first game and it seems like the author just trips over himself the more he tries to talk about it. The battle system is pretty tight, but the endgame isn't any fun (maybe it was before they added the Dark Aeons, idk). And the only thing people seem to talk about is the minigames (which are mostly ass) and the story (which prompts these conversations about the vague, confusing world-building and character work).

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

Includes Denuvo.

Never have I gone faster from excitement for a release to complete apathy than when I saw that DRM: Denuvo warning on steam.

BLOODY HELL MAN!

Leave it to Square to fuck up something as simple as a port...

I'm sorry, but $60 for a 28 year old ps1 game is madness. Especially if the original and ports still hold up.

Final Fantasy Tactics Remaster Controversially Cuts War Of The Lions Content​

“We did of course consider the addition of new jobs, abilities, and characters—including the jobs featured in War of the Lions. However, the original version of Final Fantasy Tactics is a very complete game both from a game design and story perspective. If we were to make major changes, it would only be a loss for not only fans of the original game, but also those new to the title.

With this in mind, our first step in reviving Final Fantasy Tactics in the present was to adhere to the original and put a spotlight on the original game’s characters and jobs, as well as the original gameplay experience.”

 

[Prophetic Spirit]

View attachment 7517674

Final Fantasy Tactics Remaster Controversially Cuts War Of The Lions Content​

So, basically Pixel Remaster.
Well, who's surprised?

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

View attachment 7517674

Final Fantasy Tactics Remaster Controversially Cuts War Of The Lions Content​

Absolutely worthless barebones port. I wanted fucking multiplayer on modern consoles, but they Square'd it up...

 

[Aesthetic Liminal Pool]

Final Fantasy Tactics Remaster Controversially Cuts War Of The Lions Content

They couldn't include the PSP stuff to stay faithful to the original but they can certainly "adjust" the story/script to appeal to their modern Bluesky/twitter fanbase!

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

Tidus’ mom is objectively the worse parent, the fact that Jecht would literally have to tell her to spend time with him is proof enough. Jecht may have been a dick but Tidus’ mom was outright neglectful to the point that she was selfish enough to die when Jecht left with no regard for her son.

And yet Tidus places none of the blame on her, which I always found sad.

There is a third option for Worst Tidus parent.

Auron.

The Man knew that Jecht intended for Tidus to go to Spira and become a Guardian..and Auron did fucking jack all to prepare Tidus for it. Jecht was a drunken retard so he at least had the excuse and regretted his actions, Mom was a groupie slut who probably Died of of an STD.

Auron knew EXACTLY what Tidus was going into the entire time, could have taught him the basics of Swordsmanshp and just fucking didn't.

 

[Berrakh]

Yeah but Auron is cool. Same thing that saved Vincent from being called Vincel for twenty years.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

Yeah but Auron is cool. Same thing that saved Vincent from being called Vincel for twenty years.

Gonna say it.

Vincent isn't that fucking cool, his limit breaks are the worst versions of Super Berserk in the series.

 

[Berrakh]

Gonna say it.

Vincent isn't that fucking cool, his limit breaks are the worst versions of Super Berserk in the series.

He’s style over substance. And maturity is realizing it.

When you’re young and bad at video games anyway they’re fun af though.

 

[Retarded Weeb]

No hate, but this whole conversation really makes me wonder what people see in FFX as a JRPG. I didn't like the story in the first game and it seems like the author just trips over himself the more he tries to talk about it. The battle system is pretty tight, but the endgame isn't any fun (maybe it was before they added the Dark Aeons, idk). And the only thing people seem to talk about is the minigames (which are mostly ass) and the story (which prompts these conversations about the vague, confusing world-building and character work).

I really like the story to FFX. The director and other designers new how to compose their cutscenes for max effectiveness in getting across the intended emotion. It touches on a fair amount of themes between family, religion, and death but ties it all together well. I think two main emotional cores of the story - Tidus's relationship with Yuna and his relationship with Jecht - and Tidus and Yuna's development over the story are handled well. While conversations about how exactly some of the fantasy stuff works does come up often, I don't think it's really a flaw in the writing since it makes sense if you pay and read between the lines a bit, and understanding it fully isn't that important to the actual emotional core of the plot which is why the writers don't sit you down and spend several minutes walking you through it make absolute sure you understand.

The gameplay does eventually get stale when going for 100% completion because of how every character becomes the exact same except for Overdrives once you've maxed everyone out, and how superbosses end up boiling down to a rather specific set of strategies at that point, but that doesn't mean the main story or even much of the optional content until you get really far into the weeds aren't still fun and mostly pretty balanced for much of it. It's too bad they didn't reuse the CTB system for another game since it could have been used together with other gameplay systems besides the other ones FFX has, just like the ATB system was.

 

[Metallic Blood]

View attachment 7517674

Final Fantasy Tactics Remaster Controversially Cuts War Of The Lions Content​

>"If we were to make major changes, it would only be a loss for not only fans of the original, but also those new to the title"

ABSOLUTE BASTARDS

Who are those "fans of the original" that would be disappointed seeing WoTL classes in the remaster?! I want names!

WHAT'S EVEN THE POINT OF AN ENHANCED VS CLASSIC VERSION IF YOU'RE GONNA DO JACK ALL WITH THE NEW VERSION?!

Literally all they could've done is to port the mobile version to PC, charge 50$ and I would eat it up, because at least I would be happy having WoTL with potentially good mod support, it would still be lazy, but I would take that anyday over cutting fan favorite content and Day 1 Denuvo.

I got so genuinely mad when I heard this for the first time, but now I'm just sad and disappointed. It's my favorite game of all time, why you gotta hurt me this way man

 

[PB & Banana Sandwich]

Squareenix missing an easy lay up, as usual. These guys are experts at this shit.

 

[LoverofPi]

Ah I see. There’s another layer. It’s not that Tidus appeared one day as a flawed memory of Shuyin with memories also based on Shuyin’s life but is someone born and raised in the dream who happened to fit a Shuyin preset.

Fits the ultimania’s tradition of making the stories seem more contrived but I’ll take it.

Edit: I searched around too and I don’t really buy the Not His Template thing however. One it contradicts the in-game explanation too brazenly. And for another everyone else repeats something similar, that the fayth based Tidus on Shuyin. With some debate about if Dream Zanarkand has no concept of time and it’s forever stuck or if the Fayth just repopulate it with new citizens based on old templates that merely appears like natural reproduction.

I have also learned not to trust references to Ultimanias I haven’t read, even though I am also guilty of citing them (but in my case I am just lazy).

I mean Shuyin could be the model for his looks, he's just not a mental copy of the dude is the important part, which is why he doesn't remember Lenne- he grew up in present day Zanarkand where no such person existed.


Also WOTL content as DLC. Bet on it.