- Joined
- Feb 14, 2025
The Final Fantasy Thread
- Thread starter Overcast
- Start date
Retarded Weeb
kiwifarms.net
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- Dec 17, 2022
Here's my take on this. The Mako reactors are easily comparable to oil energy - and I've never heard anyone compare them to nuclear but I guess it makes sense with being called "reactors" and being able to cause mutation if used for it, though the term 魔晄炉 in Japanese more literally means something like "Mako furnace" so I think any intention of comparing it to nuclear if there was one is only on the localization team - but I don't think FFVII has any real intention of trying to make the player believe anything about real world oil consumption or eco energies.
The Mako consumption is basically just an all-encompassing stand-in for anything humans do that shortsightedly harms the environment for the sake of their convenience. It's just as much a metaphor for people filling up landfills with trash from buying iPhones every year, or mining operations ripping up land and spreading toxic shit, or pajeets dumping trash into their rivers until their water is undrinkable, or chinks polluting their air until breathing gives you cancer, as it is to anything as obvious as burning dirty oil for energy. The game is far off from something like Captain Planet. It has no interest in telling the player they should do any specific real-world action like support solar energy or recycle their plastic. The game's interest is just giving a vague, hippy-ish statement that people should not take the enviroment for granted and that like, people should be like one with nature and stuff, man. How you want to act that, if at all, is up to you.
Additionally, anyone saying the game whole-heartedly supports eco-terrorism is being disingenuous or dumb. The premise of how Mako energy works is horrfying enough that the game's story isn't totally against Avelanche's actions, but 1. the game moves away from being about the heroes doing terroristic activities really quickly, 2. late in the game Reeve scolds Barret about the collateral damage his terrorist bombings caused, to which Barret accepts the blame and admits that his actions weren't very useful and mostly driven by blind revenge, which leads to point 3. the game doesn't depict Avelanche's actions as being very impactful in actually stopping Shinra or fixing society. They inconvenienced Shinra, but couldn't do anything to destroy the company or change society's course, and in the end the things that caused Shinra's collapse were either their own actions backfiring or were basically Acts of God (the Weapons blowing shit up). Which ties into another point the game makes, which is that the enviromental stuff is mostly for humanity's own benefit, because no matter what they do the planet as a whole will survive and nature will outlast them.
My thoughts are that, even though the idea of "enviromentalism" is associated with leftism and specific causes like eco-energy, just being vaguely pro-enviromentalism is actually something just about everyone of every political stripe agrees on. No one wants shit in their drinking water, or trash all over the place, or air you can't breath. Since FFVII takes no specific stance on any specific real world political argument related to enviromentalism, and doesn't go as far as to say humans should just not have society and technology or anything, you're free to interpret it as in favor of any particular cause you want, whether that be replacing oil with wind energy or not dumping chemical run-off into rivers. And any of those specific beliefs will have been influenced by a multitude of other media and influences than just FFVII.
So saying FFVII is in support of a specific brand of leftist enviromentalism isn't very true or helpful, and it edges up on saying that any sort of pro-enviromentalist leanings in media is harmful because it makes people against nuclear energy specifically or something. At the end of the end, any vague themes in a story can be used as justification for more extreme and specific beliefs. Like any story that vaguely states that it's good to be nice to people can be used as support for the idea of importing infinite niggers into your country, even if the story didn't say anything about immigrants or whatever. Does that means stories shouldn't ever say it's good to be nice to people? Or that they always have to give a million qualifiers as to exactly the author believes and thinks you should believe? The latter is what leftists do all the time in their stories to make sure the audience only takes the exact "right" message from their story, and that's part of why the media they create is shit and not fun to watch, so I don't think that's the answer.
The Mako consumption is basically just an all-encompassing stand-in for anything humans do that shortsightedly harms the environment for the sake of their convenience. It's just as much a metaphor for people filling up landfills with trash from buying iPhones every year, or mining operations ripping up land and spreading toxic shit, or pajeets dumping trash into their rivers until their water is undrinkable, or chinks polluting their air until breathing gives you cancer, as it is to anything as obvious as burning dirty oil for energy. The game is far off from something like Captain Planet. It has no interest in telling the player they should do any specific real-world action like support solar energy or recycle their plastic. The game's interest is just giving a vague, hippy-ish statement that people should not take the enviroment for granted and that like, people should be like one with nature and stuff, man. How you want to act that, if at all, is up to you.
Additionally, anyone saying the game whole-heartedly supports eco-terrorism is being disingenuous or dumb. The premise of how Mako energy works is horrfying enough that the game's story isn't totally against Avelanche's actions, but 1. the game moves away from being about the heroes doing terroristic activities really quickly, 2. late in the game Reeve scolds Barret about the collateral damage his terrorist bombings caused, to which Barret accepts the blame and admits that his actions weren't very useful and mostly driven by blind revenge, which leads to point 3. the game doesn't depict Avelanche's actions as being very impactful in actually stopping Shinra or fixing society. They inconvenienced Shinra, but couldn't do anything to destroy the company or change society's course, and in the end the things that caused Shinra's collapse were either their own actions backfiring or were basically Acts of God (the Weapons blowing shit up). Which ties into another point the game makes, which is that the enviromental stuff is mostly for humanity's own benefit, because no matter what they do the planet as a whole will survive and nature will outlast them.
My thoughts are that, even though the idea of "enviromentalism" is associated with leftism and specific causes like eco-energy, just being vaguely pro-enviromentalism is actually something just about everyone of every political stripe agrees on. No one wants shit in their drinking water, or trash all over the place, or air you can't breath. Since FFVII takes no specific stance on any specific real world political argument related to enviromentalism, and doesn't go as far as to say humans should just not have society and technology or anything, you're free to interpret it as in favor of any particular cause you want, whether that be replacing oil with wind energy or not dumping chemical run-off into rivers. And any of those specific beliefs will have been influenced by a multitude of other media and influences than just FFVII.
So saying FFVII is in support of a specific brand of leftist enviromentalism isn't very true or helpful, and it edges up on saying that any sort of pro-enviromentalist leanings in media is harmful because it makes people against nuclear energy specifically or something. At the end of the end, any vague themes in a story can be used as justification for more extreme and specific beliefs. Like any story that vaguely states that it's good to be nice to people can be used as support for the idea of importing infinite niggers into your country, even if the story didn't say anything about immigrants or whatever. Does that means stories shouldn't ever say it's good to be nice to people? Or that they always have to give a million qualifiers as to exactly the author believes and thinks you should believe? The latter is what leftists do all the time in their stories to make sure the audience only takes the exact "right" message from their story, and that's part of why the media they create is shit and not fun to watch, so I don't think that's the answer.
- Joined
- Oct 7, 2019
I never thought and probably i don't gonna search into details if the entire point is Cloud having Onmislash and kill everybody in his path, incluiding Sephiroth.
Apart, the time traveling shit was much better done in Chrono Trigger.
Apart, the time traveling shit was much better done in Chrono Trigger.
NiggerNiggerNigger
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Apr 15, 2025
Good write up, appreciate the effort.
I don't think FF7 is to blame for the themes (even Captain Planet probably wasn't deliberate subversion). Its more like their good intentions were followed by co-opters who wanted to capitalize on the effect that eco-savior media themes had on an entire generation after the influence had taken root.
Conditioning can be very generic. They took a generation that took on a vague undeveloped self-understanding of themselves as 'people that care about the planet', and slowly steered them into a controlled (and poison pill) leftism camp, and the controlled right played the part of a Shinra (generic ethically challenged asshole governmental/corporate complex) to a fucking T (talking about the GW years) like it was all scripted face vs heel.
That part was where the real crime and conspiracy happened, and it is a crime because not only did the left fail to protect the planet, they administered cultural poison pills. Anti-natalism, anti-family, a castration cult, an enabling relationship with drug use, mental illness, core beliefs that are nationally/ethnically suicidal, etc.
Millennials and Boomers are old enough to see the formative influence of all of the propaganda, politics, media, and organic(?) social trends of their lifetimes in full hindsight. Can't fix what's done, but if people could navigate the influences around them better. Doesn't matter if they're good intentioned or bad intentioned, influence is a weapon.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2019
I just finished it and both of them. Echoes of the Fallen doesn't really add anything aside from the Omega Weapon and a couple of neat boss fights, but if I hadn't paid a grand total of $0 for it I'd be sorely disappointed since its basically just a single dungeon crawl. The Omega Weapon is certainly a nice weapon in terms of looks and stats though. Rising Tide definitely expanded the world for the better in terms of lore and environments, and with a brand new Eikon to boot. Shula being easy on the eyes certainly didn't hurt. Sadly they both come way, way too late to matter much to the main game, so I wound up using Omega Weapon exactly twice: first time while gathering the water for the Rite of Immersion and once against Ultima in the final battle.
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2013
They’re alright. Echoes of the Fallen is mostly just combat which is meh but the Omega fight is a nice challenge.
The Rising Tide finally answered the questions about Leviathan so I appreciated that and the expanded lore, but that one DPS check during the boss fight made me want to tear my hair out.
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2024
crossposting of "Tactical Indie RPGs" thread:
Final Fantasy Tactics - The Ivalice Chronicles was announced today!
It will be released on September 30th in all current gen platforms, which includes Steam.
Final Fantasy Tactics - The Ivalice Chronicles was announced today!
It will be released on September 30th in all current gen platforms, which includes Steam.
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2020
Includes Denuvo.
Never have I gone faster from excitement for a release to complete apathy than when I saw that DRM: Denuvo warning on steam.
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2024
...
Don't tell m-
BLOODY HELL MAN!
Same here. I was already skeptical when I saw no mentions of WoTL additions anywhere (they already revealed Cloud's VA for that game, but not Luso or Balthier), but seeing this just made me so disappointed, crap man!
If somehow the remaster's additions are just that good then I might consider buying it, if not then I will be stuck with my original copy and modded WoTL, thank you very much.
Alternatively, If this game somehow has a big modding scene like XCOM2, then I shall grab a boat and sail in the high seas for it, yar-har.
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2020
No Balthier is a crime. His cel-shaded intro cutscene in War Of The Lions was one of the most memorable moments in an already memorable game for me.
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2021
Leave it to Square to fuck up something as simple as a port...
- Joined
- Sep 17, 2020
I'm sorry, but $60 for a 28 year old ps1 game is madness. Especially if the original and ports still hold up.
Berrakh
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2018
- Joined
- Jun 10, 2024
50$*, but it's still madness either way.
They did mention that they're gonna add extra cutscenes for the special characters and vaguely mentions "extra content and features that make the game even more fun to play."
Now, will this extra content justify cutting all the fan favorite WoTL additions like Dark Knight, Balthier and Multiplayer? Place your
now and be anxiously ready to get disappointed on September 30th!
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- Joined
- Sep 17, 2020
They're selling a "deluxe edition" for $60 too. It just comes with a couple low level items. Are square really so hard up these days they have to pull stunts like this?
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2020
Now that their cash cow FF14 has been getting shit on over the new expansion, maybe.
I know there's a falloff of players during any content lull in an MMORPG, sure, but basically all of the major FCs on my world have lost between 30 and 40 percent of their active players and all the leaders are saying Dawntrail's to blame. Wouldn't surprise me if SE is seeing a noticeable drop in sub revenue.
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2024
Berrakh
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Jun 13, 2018
I'm sorry, I should have stepped in sooner.
I also want to point out that a lot of time is given to Cid's opinions on the world. Because I think they fare a lot better than Barrett's (Barrett even says Cid should lead the team in Cloud's absence, for example). And his opinion is that the problem with Shinra's influence has been their descent into consumer comfort instead of aspirational projects like Space Travel. Taking it all together-- Cid's cynicism toward human indolence, Barrett being subverted as someone just after revenge, Aerith being the martyr, Sephiroth being a creation humans cannot compete with, and so on it's clearly a more nuanced criticism of human folly than merely an eco-anti-corpo message.
As an aside...
If you participate in the fandom you will notice that the people who thrive off the anti-capitalist interpretation seemingly have no time for Aerith in particular. Because she's such an obvious problem for that take. Everything else can be resized and resituated in the narrative to magnify their preferred take, except for her and she has the most iconic scene and the longest direct contact with the central plot. They also tend to present the game as having a pro-mental health message to tie up the loose ends around Nibelheim that also don't neatly fit anti-capitalism but can still be enlisted in basically the same Millennial Political Programming coalition.
But you could write an entire paper over the emotional contortions such a seemingly inoffensive can character cause. You have people who like Remake Jessie calling her 'annoying' for instance, and Remake Jessie has every negative trait it was trendy to give Aerith on tumblr in the 2010s.
The problem with this take is that the eco message, as articulated in Avalanche v Shinra, does not last. The game pretty quickly becomes more about Sephiroth who honestly, if anything, represents Old Testament style punishment of Humanity. He isn't God however because he has the human failing of Greed, taken to a monstrously consumptive level because he's half-Jenova, but besides that Barrett has his ideals seriously questioned and it really only appears to be Midgar that's wounding the planet. Everywhere else looks fine unless Shinra actively damaged it. The game actually has the politics of staying local and not surrendering to low-trust impulses like sloth, revenge, and sacrificing good things in petty squabbles. This is is where Aerith and her death come in. Most blatantly Christian character in gaming besides Joshua Graham whose gimmick, separating her from the rest of the cast, is not acting out of the mistreatment she received in her early years. Every other cast member by comparison is driven by some kind of feud or disappointment. Her motives are considerably purer than this, being driven by something that could pass for destiny, regardless of how retards have tried to revise her history as a character.
I also want to point out that a lot of time is given to Cid's opinions on the world. Because I think they fare a lot better than Barrett's (Barrett even says Cid should lead the team in Cloud's absence, for example). And his opinion is that the problem with Shinra's influence has been their descent into consumer comfort instead of aspirational projects like Space Travel. Taking it all together-- Cid's cynicism toward human indolence, Barrett being subverted as someone just after revenge, Aerith being the martyr, Sephiroth being a creation humans cannot compete with, and so on it's clearly a more nuanced criticism of human folly than merely an eco-anti-corpo message.
As an aside...
If you participate in the fandom you will notice that the people who thrive off the anti-capitalist interpretation seemingly have no time for Aerith in particular. Because she's such an obvious problem for that take. Everything else can be resized and resituated in the narrative to magnify their preferred take, except for her and she has the most iconic scene and the longest direct contact with the central plot. They also tend to present the game as having a pro-mental health message to tie up the loose ends around Nibelheim that also don't neatly fit anti-capitalism but can still be enlisted in basically the same Millennial Political Programming coalition.
But you could write an entire paper over the emotional contortions such a seemingly inoffensive can character cause. You have people who like Remake Jessie calling her 'annoying' for instance, and Remake Jessie has every negative trait it was trendy to give Aerith on tumblr in the 2010s.
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- Joined
- Jun 9, 2019
I got done with a revisit of FFX and it re-evaluated my opinion on how much we see of Jecht and what we see of him. I never left the game disliking him and always thought his relationship to Tidus and how he changes during his pilgrimage with Braskas and Auron but I used to think they could've shown more.
I've come around to think they have shown exactly enough and just the right scenes to showcase Jecht is a flawed person but not a bad one and his changes feel perfectly gradual.
Also, I will always have a stupid smile and the metal blasting as the transformed Jecht gets ready for the final battle.
I've come around to think they have shown exactly enough and just the right scenes to showcase Jecht is a flawed person but not a bad one and his changes feel perfectly gradual.
Also, I will always have a stupid smile and the metal blasting as the transformed Jecht gets ready for the final battle.
Gravityqueen4life
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- May 29, 2019
Jecht can come off as "toxic" and mean spirited for bullying Tidus but that was just his way off trying to teach him to stand on his own feet and become "a man". He was far from perfect but he loved his family and was willing to fight monsters and even quit drinking to get the chance to see them again.
I also find it amusing Tidus mom never gets any blame. She was just a fan Jechet accidentally knocked up and she didint care about Tidus beacuse he took away attention from Jecht. Once Jechet was gone, she just gave up on living, leaving Tidus all alone.