The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[Bonesjones]

Barbarossa was the largest land invasion in history. Handwaving it away makes perfect sense. Come on now dude.


Also curious, I went to look at this link that has been linked in this thread like a hundred times and its been deleted from the site?

https://www.auschwitz.org/en/museum/auschwitz-prisoners/prisoner-numbers/

https://www.auschwitz.org/en/history/victims/prisoner-numbers/

Looks like they changed the url for whatever reason.

 

[TJT]

See? I can do this sort of sarcastic, dismissive handwaving too. Doesn't change the fact that when you actually look at the loss figures objectively; (I.E not ignoring POWs taken, for example.) what the Russians accomplished looks much less impressive.

I don't handwave Overlord away either but cool.

 

[Jacques1194]

Never understood why holocaust deniers go "It didn't happen but I wish it did "and "Once we get power again, we'll make it happen". At this point why do you even deny the Holocaust if you dont hide what you want to do with jews? I never understood the worship of Hitler and the nazis if they did nothing bad to supposedly evil people. You expect me to believe that Hitler and the nazis found out the truth about the "Stabbed In The Back", "Jewish bolsheviks killing 11 million white Christians", "plotting to destroy Germany", "Blood Libel", and "Got the entire world to declare war on Germany". Yet according to holocaust deniers, the nazi's response to all of this was to keep the jews safe while declaring war on multiple white countries who weren't involved and getting more white people killed? Why? Unless jews mind controlled the nazis to not harm them then why do you praise the nazis for finding out the satanic nature of jews and their response wasn't to straight up kill them all?

 

[Black Man Underwear]

Never understood why holocaust deniers go "It didn't happen but I wish it did "and "Once we get power again, we'll make it happen". At this point why do you even deny the Holocaust if you dont hide what you want to do with jews? I never understood the worship of Hitler and the nazis if they did nothing bad to supposedly evil people. You expect me to believe that Hitler and the nazis found out the truth about the "Stabbed In The Back", "Jewish bolsheviks killing 11 million white Christians", "plotting to destroy Germany", "Blood Libel", and "Got the entire world to declare war on Germany". Yet according to holocaust deniers, the nazi's response to all of this was to keep the jews safe while declaring war on multiple white countries who weren't involved and getting more white people killed? Why? Unless jews mind controlled the nazis to not harm them then why do you praise the nazis for finding out the satanic nature of jews and their response wasn't to straight up kill them all?
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A "Holocaust denier" understands every single alleged death camp was in the Soviet zone of occupation, which raises questions on its legitimacy. He also understands why it is so convenient. All of German society is deadlocked in an infinity spiral of guilt over it, even basic patriotic activities like singing the national anthem are dangerous for them to do because of the Holocaust. This is not self imposed, it was and is imposed upon them, as is the culture of fear and constant spying by their secret police. If I were German, this post would be a crime.

The "Holocaust" was a removal of antisocial and un-German elements of German society. Homosexuals, communists, sex offenders, etc were put in camps along with Jews.

The purpose of this was to segregate and socialize them. For the antisocial elements, Arbeit Macht Frei, work makes you free, you get to leave if you demonstrate loyalty through your labor. For the Jews, they needed to be removed from common society as they were a foreign identity incompatible with German society. After the war they would have to be deported, but the war made that impossible.

Jews are a superminority yet statistically hold more power than other groups in the world. However, not all Jews are bad, there is a difference between the average synagogue attender and the Baron Rothschild. Executing entire minorities is fundamentally wrong because they didn't do anything, but Hitler couldn't expel them due to the war. Most of the world was at war with Germany, so mass deportations would be virtually impossible until later.

Like the other groups, the Jews are a fundamentally anti-Western, anti-Christian, and subversive group. Historically, all other religions explicitly forbade usury, but they allow it. All other religions, even Islam, recognize Jesus at least on paper, Jews explicitly condemn him as a sorcerer and the son of a whore. Like the millions of niggers in Europe today, not all Jews are bad people, but they are not compatible and thusly were to be removed.

As for your citations,

• Jewish Bolsheviks did indeed start the October Revolution, and it did kill 11 million white Christians. Communism, invented by a Jew, is arguably the most bloodthirsty ideology in history. The Jews Lenin and Trotsky were assisted by an overwhelmingly Jewish inner circle of the Bolshevik Revolutionaries. Even Vladimir Putin has publically admitted this despite his pro-Soviet-nostalgia image.
• Blood libel is a real, historical allegation going back centuries against Jews in Europe. Hard to believe, but the same group that has old men give oral after circumcisions also was alleged to kill Christian babies.
• Communist plots in Germany led by prominent Jews like Rosa Luxemburg and Karl Liebknecht, as well as "sexological research" done by Jews like Magnus Hirschfeld did exist. They were real and omnipresent, and their goal was revolution and the destruction of traditional German culture and society. Communism, homosexuality, transgenderism, and other antisocial ideologies were invented by Jews and are largely propagated by Jews.
• Finally, a largely Jewish organization known as The Focus, or the Anti-Nazi Council was founded in the 1930s to promote war with Germany. It was founded by prominent Jews Robert Cohen and Samuel Untermyer. It was a very influential organization, and was one of Winston Churchill's main allies during his campaign. It organized international boycotts of German goods and met with world leaders throughout the 1930s.

Every nation invaded by Germany would volunteer thousands of men to fight on the Eastern front. It was not a war against white countries, it was a war against the red menace. To an extent, even Jews were permitted in the Wehrmacht and the SS.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

Never understood why holocaust deniers go "It didn't happen but I wish it did "and "Once we get power again, we'll make it happen". At this point why do you even deny the Holocaust if you dont hide what you want to do with jews? I never understood the worship of Hitler and the nazis if they did nothing bad to supposedly evil people. You expect me to believe that Hitler and the nazis found out the truth about the "Stabbed In The Back", "Jewish bolsheviks killing 11 million white Christians", "plotting to destroy Germany", "Blood Libel", and "Got the entire world to declare war on Germany". Yet according to holocaust deniers, the nazi's response to all of this was to keep the jews safe while declaring war on multiple white countries who weren't involved and getting more white people killed? Why? Unless jews mind controlled the nazis to not harm them then why do you praise the nazis for finding out the satanic nature of jews and their response wasn't to straight up kill them all?
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You're conflating a lot of separate ideas and strands of thought here (as you obliquely point out, the only way for one person to believe all of this simulateously is to be no-shit schizophrenic) so I'll just address the "what is the purpose behind the 'it didn't happen but I wish it did' sentiment?" question.

Suppose, for the sake of argument, that the Holocaust was definitively proven to be a hoax on a level that convinced everyone except the local equivalent of flat earthers. What would be the appropriate punishment for the perpetrators of the calumny? What would be the appropriate reparations for it's victims?

 

[Jacques1194]

Suppose, for the sake of argument, that the Holocaust was definitively proven to be a hoax on a level that convinced everyone except the local equivalent of flat earthers. What would be the appropriate punishment for the perpetrators of the calumny? What would be the appropriate reparations for it's victims?

I mean would there be any punishments when the last remaining people that were alive during that time are basically on deaths door at this point? Even if the Holocaust was proven to be a hoax or overexaggerated, diversity and multiculturalism are so ingrained in today's left that they'll just say that we shouldn't be racist and repeat the "Diversity is our strength" slogan. Many will argue that their jewish neighbor had no involvement with the Holocaust but was taught it was true, and most importantly, no one is going to go around and say all jews deserve an actual Holocaust because some of them hate white people.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

I mean would there be any punishments when the last remaining people that were alive during that time are basically on deaths door at this point? Even if the Holocaust was proven to be a hoax or overexaggerated, diversity and multiculturalism are so ingrained in today's left that they'll just say that we shouldn't be racist and repeat the "Diversity is our strength" slogan. Many will argue that their jewish neighbor had no involvement with the Holocaust but was taught it was true, and most importantly, no one is going to go around and say all jews deserve an actual Holocaust because some of them hate white people.

This is a "should" question, not a "would" question. Everyone here knows that the Holocaust is globohomo's most foundational belief, they would never give up on it no matter how irrefutable the evidence. That said, however, there's a lot of things that should have happened but didn't in history. If you were dictator of Earth, in the scenario I described, what would you order as far as serving justice?

 

[Jacques1194]

This is a "should" question, not a "would" question. Everyone here knows that the Holocaust is globohomo's most foundational belief, they would never give up on it no matter how irrefutable the evidence.

Which is why its a waste of time to try and refute it because mainstream society isn't going to listen. Again, refute the Holocaust and then what? Multiculturalism and diversity are still very much ingrained in both the left and even the right that its not going to change anything.

If you were dictator of Earth, in the scenario I described, what would you order as far as serving justice?

Serve justice to who? Again, most of the people who were alive during WW2 are either dead or about to be so I can't punish them. Unless you mean punish jewish people or Israel then would I punish people who genuinely believed the Holocaust happened? That's like if I punished people who believed in the Holodomor if it turned out to be a hoax or over exaggerated it.

 

[Krokodil Overdose]

Serve justice to who? Again, most of the people who were alive during WW2 are either dead or about to be so I can't punish them. Unless you mean punish jewish people or Israel then would I punish people who genuinely believed the Holocaust happened? That's like if I punished people who believed in the Holodomor if it turned out to be a hoax or over exaggerated it.

Look at the BEE laws in South Africa, or the fact that Holocaust guilt is still a thing in Germany to this day. The "rules-based international order" has absolutely no problem with collective guilt/punishment in perpetuity, as long as the people it's being done to are white. The deniers in question are just applying that same standard.

That's what I think the sentiment is about, ultimately: a certain concept of poetic justice. After all, there's a certain symmetry to people who've spent eight decades lying, exploiting, abusing, and extorting their fellow man to finally suffer the cruelties they invented in order to abuse others.

After all, under the Code of Hammurabi, calumny is given the same punishment that would have been given to the falsely accused.

 

[Bonesjones]

Never understood why holocaust deniers go "It didn't happen but I wish it did "and "Once we get power again, we'll make it happen".

Because most people started assuming the holocaust was fake due to misinformation and wartime propaganda run amok. When they realize it was actually a terror campaign to punish Germany for holding jews accountable they realize the magnitude of the problem.

At this point why do you even deny the Holocaust if you dont hide what you want to do with jews?

Because it didnt happen, we gollow the truth not our own emotions. White people are happy with justice being done and aren't psychopathic jews.

I never understood the worship of Hitler and the nazis if they did nothing bad to supposedly evil people.

Doing justice isn't bad, failing to realize just how much the game is rigged against you isn't either.

You expect me to believe that Hitler and the nazis found out the truth about the "Stabbed In The Back", "Jewish bolsheviks killing 11 million white Christians", "plotting to destroy Germany", "Blood Libel", and "Got the entire world to declare war on Germany". Yet according to holocaust deniers, the nazi's response to all of this was to keep the jews safe while declaring war on multiple white countries who weren't involved and getting more white people killed?

You should read a history book instead of talking about whatever pilpul garbage this is.

Why?

They didn't "keep jews safe", they were put into transit camps awaiting processing and expulsion. The war starts and the process grinds to a halt, they do their best to take care of their prisoners as is their responsibility. The allies bombing campaigns make conditions increasingly worse until wars end.

Unless jews mind controlled the nazis to not harm them then why do you praise the nazis for finding out the satanic nature of jews and their response wasn't to straight up kill them all?

Jewish hands wrote these lines. Just because rats live in your house and you kill the problematic ones doesn't mean you want to kill all rats. Jews are so pathetic they aren't even worth genociding.

Jews are a superminority yet statistically hold more power than other groups in the world. However, not all Jews are bad, there is a difference between the average synagogue attender and the Baron Rothschild.

All jews are bad because of their lying and secret collectivist behavior. Remove their ability to control the narrative as they like and they are quickly exposed. It's why they hate being segregated, it makes their behavior extremely obvious when they can't hide behind others.

Blood libel is a real, historical allegation going back centuries against Jews in Europe. Hard to believe, but the same group that has old men give oral after circumcisions also was alleged to kill Christian babies.

Blood libel implies it's a lie, these allegations were proven in court multiple times as read in the book "Blood Passover".

Which is why its a waste of time to try and refute it because mainstream society isn't going to listen. Again, refute the Holocaust and then what? Multiculturalism and diversity are still very much ingrained in both the left and even the right that its not going to change anything.

Hey look more propaganda about how you can't win and just give up. It's incredibly easy to win because jews are retards and I've personally exposed the biggest ones on this website.

Again without jews in control of messaging, it all falls apart. There's a reason they always seek to control it. Evil fears the light.

Serve justice to who? Again, most of the people who were alive during WW2 are either dead or about to be so I can't punish them. Unless you mean punish jewish people or Israel then would I punish people who genuinely believed the Holocaust happened? That's like if I punished people who believed in the Holodomor if it turned out to be a hoax or over exaggerated it.

Jews have no problem stealing property from white people on the flimsiest basis. So why shouldn't we hold them to their own standards? Why are we caring what people believe when we are holding them responsible for their actions?

 

[Patrick Not-Star]

"What happened during the holocaust?" is not a binary question. I think Germar Rudolf said it best:

Full Video

 

[WillyPete]

It never happened, they deserve it.

 

[OrangeManeXTinyHatGVNG]

So whats kiwi consensus so far? I think the nazis sucked and that hitler was a witting/unwitting british agent. I encourage everyone to read Preparatas "Conjuring Hitler".

The upper echelon of the hitlerites were sadohomosexual degenerates that killed a lot of people that shouldnt have died through a variety of means and experimented on people. They were ruthless and anti-christian, only surpassed by the Nips. I however see no evidence they gassed anyone other than the early vehicle exhaust gassings in the east that were not very effective. The evidence presented for extermination of undesirables with Zyklon B seems laughable and retarded. One would have to be a child or browbeaten/scared of the consequences to fall for it. The russians basically admitted it was atrocity propaganda. Its literally illegal here to claim that here. lmao. thats how important the holocaust is for globohomo, not just israel. Watch spinning squirrels, both parts. Dawson is your man because hes a humanist and knows all the other good holobunga guys that arent kooks

 

[Bonesjones]

So whats kiwi consensus so far?

Scientific fact shows it never happened.

 

[VeteranOfTheRetardWars]

So whats kiwi consensus so far?

Hitler absolutely fled to South America.

 

[Niggsworth]

Denying the holocaust is extremely gay. Kikes have had thousands of years of history of expulsions, and then minor purges. If you add up all of the expulsions it's 1366 or more But then you go ahead and deny the German people the glory of being the first people in the history of humanity to actually, genuinely, seriously attempt to exterminate the jews, once and for all. The holocaust happened and this is not even an opinion or up to debate or anything. What's up to debate is the raw numbers. It's somewhere around 6 million jews and then 5 million other people that we don't get to hear much about, because the jews are just oh-so important and God's chosen people in comparison to those 5 million worthless goyim.

I do not deny the holocaust, but I *do* deny the bullshit sentiment that Europeans should feel guilty about this event, at all. This shit has been the bane of European Nationalism since around the year 1965, no fucking wonder there are so many holocaust deniers.

 

[Rome's rightful successor]

Remember back when Carl Benjamin ran his doomed political campaign and he said this?


I thought long about what he said here and after recent events I think I agree with this sentiment. I just totally do not give a fuck about the Holocaust.
Like Israel doesn't give a shit about bombing children but will bitch and moan about the kids in the camps and why should anyone else care for the jews?

My friend and I went to the bar a few weeks ago and he told me that he went down the holocaust denier/revisionist rabbit hole. And you know what? Good for him. I remember going on a similar journey back in the day from being a kid in middle school being force to be taught about the holocaust to going through hours upon hours of /pol/ related discussions on it, and ultimately I have come to feel totally apathetic towards it. I don't deny it nor do care that it happened.
Like I could understand why some will care for Holodomor, or the Circassian, or Armenian genocides. Or the Genocide going right now in Gaza. Those have no closure and the perpetrators won with misfortune going for those people to this day but here the victims of the holocaust won and the perpetrators are dead or 110 year olds that still get put on trial. The Jews get power in the US, Russia, and their very own high tech state of Israel. So why should I care?

But I am a true believer in /pol/'s law on this.

Let's as a thought experiment say for devil's advocate it didn't happen like what the western canon dictates: then all western nations should apologizes to their people for creating suppression speech laws and jailing their own over a lie. Israel is beyond reproach for building on the foundation of lies and blood. And the West German based left should be absolutely ashamed of themselves for suppressing and psychologically torturing their own people and inspiring racial self hatred.

Let's as a thought experiment say for devil's advocate it did happen like what the western canon dictates: Very few Jews seem grateful for the White Christian Americans and the Russians for liberating the camps. If I was a victim of Genocide and was saved, I would do the upmost to respect my savors and their descendants. On both a cultural and personal level. I would have extreme hesitancy on avoiding policy that harms the culture of other people because stuff like that happened to us. I would freak out if my side killed civilians and fear my people becoming like our would be killers. But I'm not a Jew. I think Holocaust denial laws creates more Holocaust deniers with the added suspicion the these laws are design to hide something. Like that old German Lady that went to prison and died there should not have happened.

Fuck collective guilt shit and the hypocritical powers at be.
I want gentiles and Jews to look eye to eye at each other and see and treat each other as normal people.

 

[big pauper]

I think Holocaust denial laws creates more Holocaust deniers with the added suspicion the these laws are design to hide something. Like that old German Lady that went to prison and died there should not have happened.

Fuck collective guilt shit and the hypocritical powers at be.
I want gentiles and Jews to look eye to eye at each other and see and treat each other as normal people.

my family is from poland. you just have to ask the people who were alive there at the time who aren't still legally compelled to lie about it. everything past 'they deported the jews' is not really a statement you should take at face value. considering the jews like to brag about the millions of people who immigrated to america and the millions of people who immigrated to mandatory palestine during the 30's and 40's - the rise of the nazis - it just seems obviously contradictory to also claim that they were genocided. ethnically cleansed? absolutely. they forced those people out of their homes. however - i dont think the information actually exists in the current narrative to describe a hollistic reality that can hold up to all of these basic observational questions. i need more information to be convinced of that reality than a pile of shoes.

it's easier to just say that the holocaust was not a genocide, it was an ethnic cleansing, and they made most of it up for political and religious purposes.

 

[Oligarca Caballero]

antisocial and un-German elements of German society. Homosexuals, communists, sex offenders (this one is ok), etc (you forgot gypsies and literally anyone who refused to collaborate with the government) were put in camps along with Jews.

Anything you don't like is worthless and deserves to be killed (oh, sorry, temporarily displaced before deportation), got it.

For the antisocial elements, Arbeit Macht Frei, work makes you free, you get to leave if you demonstrate loyalty through your labor. For the Jews, they needed to be removed from common society as they were a foreign identity incompatible with German society.

And here comes the Auschwitz Spa Resort narrative. “Work makes you free” — unless of course, you’re starved, beaten, shot, or gassed for not mining enough gravel. But yes, let’s pretend for the sake of conversation that death camps were just intense vocational schools, with a minor cremation inconvenience, no point in arguing this with you because I am not going to change your opinion on concentration camps being wholesome summer schools.

However, not all Jews are bad, there is a difference between the average synagogue attender and the Baron Rothschild.

Preceded by "all jews are incompatible with german society and needed to be put in concentration camps for the betterment of society". What point are you trying to make, exactly?

After the war they would have to be deported, but the war made that impossible.

War sure didn't make it impossible for Stalin to displace a shit ton of disloyal minorities like Crimean Tatars, Lithuanians, Estonians and any churka that didn't agree with his government plan or the way he was directing his war.

Like the other groups, the Jews are a fundamentally anti-Western, anti-Christian, and subversive group.

"Not all jews are bad... But they are literally the bane of western civilization". Very congruent discourse, yeah.

Historically, all other religions explicitly forbade usury, but they allow it.

True, actually usury is not allowed... Against jews. Against gentiles it's fair game lmao.

All other religions, even Islam, recognize Jesus at least on paper, Jews explicitly condemn him as a sorcerer and the son of a whore

You don't even believe in any of this so why do you care? Isn't Jesus just a kike on a stick that was glorified by Paul to destroy Roman Europe? Or was he actually an aryan superbeast and the only reason you believe in him is to uphold him as an idol of European identity?

Like the millions of niggers in Europe today, not all Jews are bad people, but they are not compatible and thusly were to be removed.

... And isn't the easiest way to remove them just to, you know, kill them? I mean, for someone that is presenting the pressing evil that jews are for some reason you aren't just coming to the conclusion that perhaps it was just easier to just get rid of them the classic way. I guess the germans were just too noble and so they didn't want to harm a single jew so they made summer camps for them to enjoy their eventual stay in the new german reich before getting sent to Madagascar or Palestine.

Blood libel is a real, historical allegation going back centuries against Jews in Europe. Hard to believe, but the same group that has old men give oral after circumcisions also was alleged to kill Christian babies.

True

https://open.substack.com/pub/timayenis/p/jewish-ritual-murder-the-complete

Finally, a largely Jewish organization known as The Focus, or the Anti-Nazi Council was founded in the 1930s to promote war with Germany

No fucking way! The antijewish government is being boycotted by jews? Who would have guessed!

I don't even uphold the traditional holocaust narrative, I just despise how hypocritical your discourse is, if you could at the very be honest about how much you want jews gone because they are human garbage it would be tolerable but you have to hide behind petty moralisms to hide the fact you really just want to get rid of anyone you deem not worthy of your ideal society.

 

[Black Man Underwear]

And here comes the Auschwitz Spa Resort narrative. “Work makes you free” — unless of course, you’re starved, beaten, shot, or gassed for not mining enough gravel. But yes, let’s pretend for the sake of conversation that death camps were just intense vocational schools, with a minor cremation inconvenience, no point in arguing this with you because I am not going to change your opinion on concentration camps being wholesome summer schools.

Truly strange how we cracked the German codes and yet have no evidence to support any of that through any communications.

We do however have commemorative currency and pictures of the Auschwitz swim team.

Oh and by the way, the amount of coking coal needed to bake that many people would be visible by any spy plane, many of which passed over Auschwitz and other camps.

It's interesting that every single death camp was located in the Soviet zone of occupation.

Due to Allied bombing of shipping lines, most of Germany was starving. Would you rather feed a prisoner or your son?

... And isn't the easiest way to remove them just to, you know, kill them? I mean, for someone that is presenting the pressing evil that jews are for some reason you aren't just coming to the conclusion that perhaps it was just easier to just get rid of them the classic way. I guess the germans were just too noble and so they didn't want to harm a single jew so they made summer camps for them to enjoy their eventual stay in the new german reich before getting sent to Madagascar or Palestine.

Why set up the camps at all? If the goal is genocide just send death squads house by house and it's over.

Camps don't equal ethnic cleansing, and you've conveniently ignored any detail which might support any theory that counters the narrative.