The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

[MG-34]

I have never heard a decent counterpoint for the following:

Why would the Nazis put jews in camps to ship them across several countries and tie up resources when a handful of bullets would be cheaper and more efficient?

Why not use the male jews as cheap fodder soliders in Russia? The Nazis were willing to use child molesters and rapists as penal soliders as well as Slavs from Russia, Ukraine, Belarus that we are assured by every jewish historian would be put to death if the Germans had their way, but not jews?

If we are so sure 6 million jews died, what are their names? Do we even have the names of half the jews that died during the holocaust?

Also the Israelis getting caught outright lying in real time during their recent war with the Palestinians a out 40 beheaded babies, or babies in thrown in ovens, or several jews being shot in bomb shelters (that are really Syrians) or children shot in closets leads me to believe the Jewish community is used to lying for shock value and pity points, only now with the internet they can't get away with their bullshit like they're used to.

 

[Lemmingwiser]

Is there a good start to finish source that covers the basics of questioning the Holocaust narrative using facts and evidence? Like a movie or online archive?

I have some difficulty imagining one, because of how much the goalposts have moved since the 80s documentaries.

 

[Black Man Underwear]

Is there a good start to finish source that covers the basics of questioning the Holocaust narrative using facts and evidence? Like a movie or online archive?

https://archive.org/details/cole-remastered-hb-27-est

 

[Honest Fan Soni-chan]

I stopped believing in the Holocaust because I found out about the wooden doors. Between that and the 40 beheaded babies thing recently idk how anyone believes in it anymore. Hell, idk how anyone believes anything any jew says anymore. If Schlomo tells you it's raining you better check the window.

 

[Agamemnon Busmalis]

Why would the Nazis put jews in camps to ship them across several countries and tie up resources when a handful of bullets would be cheaper and more efficient?

Germany had an enormous need for unskilled labor to free up manpower for the war effort. Forced labor was an easy way to achieve this and as an added benefit the Jews could be worked to death with no added consequences. Shipping them by rail was cheap and didn't require use of scarce fuel, and it achieved the same end as extermination camps with far more benefits to Germany beforehand.

The Nazis had to be careful with Ostarbeiter slaves as they worked in more strategic industries and skilled positions. Germany also needed to be pragmatic towards the treatment of Slavs after 1941 to avoid damaging their success in framing the invasion of the USSR as a war against Communism.

Why not use the male jews as cheap fodder soliders in Russia? The Nazis were willing to use child molesters and rapists as penal soliders as well as Slavs from Russia, Ukraine, Belarus that we are assured by every jewish historian would be put to death if the Germans had their way, but not jews?

The difference is Dirlewanger's criminals had nothing to lose since it got them out of prison, and on top of that they were allowed to run rampant and commit any crimes they wanted to against Slavs and Jews with official sanction. The Hiwis were motivated to aid Germany by their anti-Communism, especially given what the Soviets had done to them during collectivization and the Five Year Plans.

The Germans had enormous propaganda successes on the Eastern Front simply by disbanding collectives and state farms and letting farmers cultivate their own land again.

Arming Jews on the other hand would have just led to an enormous number of partisans that would kill their officers, desert at the first opportunity, and cause havoc. There was no motivation at all for them to aid Germany unlike the former two groups, the outcome was always going to be their extermination.

 

[Black Man Underwear]

Arming Jews on the other hand would have just led to an enormous number of partisans that would kill their officers, desert at the first opportunity, and cause havoc. There was no motivation at all for them to aid Germany unlike the former two groups, the outcome was always going to be their extermination.

Yes because over a hundred thousand didn't fight for the Reich.

 

[Lord Xenu]

6 million

 

[Bargain Bin Laden]

I actually met Hitler once and I asked him if the holocaust happened and he said it didn’t

 

[Agamemnon Busmalis]

Yes because over a hundred thousand didn't fight for the Reich.

Not sure how you can extrapolate 400 interviews into 100,000 without any further documentation, but that's besides the point. These aren't the self-identified, practicing Jews that were being sent to the camps. Quite a few were completely unaware they had any Jewish ancestry at all.

Mischlings got some special exemptions out of necessity especially as the war dragged on and turned against Germany. Same deal with the Hiwis recruited from "subhuman" Slavic populations.

In fact a large number of Mischlings received the German Blood Certificate exempting them from the Nuremberg Laws in exchange for their services to the Reich. Hitler was much more pragmatic than he was hateful, the opposite of Goebbels.

 

[Kankichi Ryotsu]

The Holocaust definitely happened, I think the evidence is too strong to doubt it. Of course not every account of it is legit, like the famous rollercoasters, but that doesn't mean that there was no attempt to wipe out jews off the face of the earth.

 

[Betonhaus]

The Holocaust definitely happened, I think the evidence is too strong to doubt it. Of course not every account of it is legit, like the famous rollercoasters, but that doesn't mean that there was no attempt to wipe out jews off the face of the earth.

It has happened, but it definitely did not happen as described. Every single camp that was claimed to be where they were gassing and burning jews turned out to be just a containment camp, even the famous one

 

[Betonhaus]

https://www.stormfront.org/revision/questions.html archive
This acts as a good stepping stone of things to investigate in further detail

66 questions and answers
on the Holocaust​

Updated on January of 1995

1. What proof exists that the Nazis killed six million Jews?
   None. All we have is postwar testimony, mostly of individual "survivors." This testimony is contradictory, and very few claim to have actually witnessed any "gassing." There are no contemporaneous documents or hard evidence: no mounds of ashes, no crematories capable of disposing of millions of corpses, no "human soap," no lamp shades made of human skin, and no credible demographic statistics.
   
   
2. What evidence exists that six million Jews were not killed by the Nazis?
   Extensive forensic, demographic, analytical and comparative evidence demonstrates the impossibility of such a figure. The widely repeated "six million" figure is an irresponsible exaggeration.
   
   
3. Did Simon Wiesenthal state in writing that "there were no extermination camps on German soil"?
   Yes. The famous "Nazi hunter" wrote this in Stars and Stripes, Jan. 24, 1993. He also claimed that "gassings" of Jews took place only in Poland.
   
   
4. If Dachau was in Germany, and even Wiesenthal says that it was not an extermination camp, why do many American veterans say it was an extermination camp?
   After the Allies captured Dachau, many GIs and others were led through the camp and shown a building alleged to have been a "gas chamber." The mass media widely, but falsely, continues to assert that Dachau was a "gassing" camp.
   
   
5. What about Auschwitz?
   Is there any proof that gas chambers were used to kill people there?
   No. Auschwitz, captured by the Soviets, was modified after the war, and a room was reconstructed to look like a large "gas chamber." After America's leading expert on gas chamber construction and design, Fred Leuchter, examined this and other alleged Auschwitz gassing facilities, he stated that it was an "absurdity" to claim that they were, or could have been, used for executions.
   
   
6. If Auschwitz wasn't a "death camp," what was its true purpose?
   It was an internment center and part of a large-scale manufacturing complex. Synthetic fuel was produced there, and its inmates were used as a workforce.
   
   
7. Who set up the first concentration camps?
   During the Boer War (1899-1902), the British set up what they called "concentration camps" in South Africa to hold Afrikaner women and children. Approximately 30,000 died in these hell-holes, which were as terrible as German concentration camps of World War II.
   
   
8. How did German concentration camps differ from American "relocation" camps in which Japanese-Americans were interned during WWII?
   The only significant difference was that the Germans interned persons on the basis of being real or suspected security threats to the German war effort, whereas the Roosevelt administration interned persons on the basis of race alone.
   
   
9. Why did the German government intern Jews in camps?
   It considered Jews a direct threat to national security. (Jews were overwhelmingly represented in Communist subversion.) However, all suspected security risks - not just Jews - were in danger of internment.
   
   
10. What hostile measure did world Jewry undertake against Germany as early as 1933?
    In March 1933, international Jewish organizations declared an international boycott of German goods.
    
    
11. Did the Jews of the world "declare war on Germany"?
    Yes. Newspapers around the world reported this. A front-page headline in the London Daily Express (March 24, 1933), for example, announced "Judea Declares War on Germany."
    
    
12. Was this before or after the "death camp" stories began?
    This was years before the "death camp" stories, which began in 1941-1942.
    
    
13. What nation is credited with being the first to practice mass civilian bombing?
    Britain - on May 11, 1940.
    
    
14. How many "gas chambers" to kill people were there at Auschwitz?
    None.
    
    
15. How many Jews were living in the areas that came under German control during the war?
    Fewer than six million.
    
    
16. If the Jews of Europe were not exterminated by the Nazis, what happened to them?
    After the war millions of Jews were still alive in Europe. Hundreds of thousands (perhaps as many as one and a half million) had died of all causes during the war. Others had emigrated to Palestine, the United States, and other countries. Still more Jews left Europe after the war.
    
    
17. How many Jews fled or were evacuated to deep within the Soviet Union?
    More than two million fled or were evacuated by the Soviets in 1941-1942. These Jews thus never came under German control.
    
    
18. How many Jews emigrated from Europe prior to the war, thus putting them outside of German reach?
    Perhaps a million (not including those absorbed by the USSR).
    
    
19. If Auschwitz was not an extermination camp, why did the commandant, Rudolf Hoess, confess that it was?
    He was tortured by British military police, as one of his interrogators later admitted.
    
    
20. Is there any evidence of American, British and Soviet policy to torture German prisoners in order to exact "confessions" for use at the trials at Nuremberg and elsewhere?
    Yes. Torture was extensively used to produce fraudulent "evidence" for the infamous Nuremberg trials, and in other postwar "war crimes" trials.
    
    
21. How does the Holocaust story benefit Jews today?
    It helps protect Jews as a group from criticism. As a kind of secular religion, it provides an emotional bond between Jews and their leaders. It is a powerful tool in Jewish money-raising campaigns, and is used to justify US aid to Israel.
    
    
22. How does it benefit the State of Israel?
    It justifies the billions of dollars in "reparations" Germany has paid to Israel and many individual "survivors." It is used by the Zionist/Israeli lobby to dictate a pro-Israel American foreign policy in the Middle East, and to force American taxpayer aid to Israel, totaling billions of dollars per year.
    
    
23. How is it used by many Christian clergymen?
    The Holocaust story is cited to justify the Old Testament notion of Jews as a holy and eternally persecuted "Chosen People."
    
    
24. How did it benefit the Communists?
    It diverted attention from Soviet war mongering and atrocities before, during and after the Second World War.
    
    
25. How does it benefit Britain?
    In much the same way it benefitted the Soviet Union.
    
    
26. Is there any evidence that Hitler ordered mass extermination of Jews?
    No.
    
    
27. What kind of gas was used in German wartime concentration camps?
    Hydrocyanic gas from "Zyklon B," a commercial pesticide that was widely used throughout Europe.
    
    
28. For what purpose was "Zyklon B" manufactured?
    It was a pesticide used to fumigate clothing and quarters to kill typhus-bearing lice and other pests.
    
    
29. Was this product suitable for mass extermination?
    No. If the Nazis had intended to use poison gas to exterminate people, far more efficient products were available. Zyklon is a slow-acting fumigation agent.
    
    
30. How long does it take to ventilate an area after fumigation with Zyklon B?
    Normally about 20 hours. The whole procedure is very complicated and dangerous. Gas masks must be used, and only trained technicians are employed.
    
    
31. Auschwitz commandant Hoess said that his men would enter the "gas chambers" to remove bodies ten minutes after the victims had died. How do you explain this?
    It can't be explained because had they done so they would have suffered the same fate as the "gassing" victims.
    
    
32. Hoess said in his "confession" that his men would smoke cigarettes as they pulled bodies out of gas chambers, ten minutes after gassing. Isn't Zyklon B explosive?
    Yes. The Hoess confession is obviously false.
    
    
33. What was the exact procedure the Nazis allegedly used to exterminate Jews?
    The stories range from dropping gas canisters into a crowded room from a hole in the ceiling, to piping gas through shower heads, to "steam chambers," to "electrocution" machinery. Millions are alleged to have been killed in these ways.
    
    
34. How could a mass extermination program have been kept secret from those who were scheduled to be killed?
    It couldn't have been kept secret. The fact is that there were no mass gassings. The extermination stories originated as wartime atrocity propaganda.
    
    
35. If Jews scheduled for execution knew the fate in store for them, why did they go along with the Germans without resisting?
    They didn't fight back because they did not believe there was any intention to kill them.
    
    
36. About how many Jews died in the concentration camps?
    Competent estimates range from about 300,000 to 500,000.
    
    
37. How did they die?
    Mainly from recurring typhus epidemics that ravaged war-torn Europe during the war, as well as from starvation and lack of medical attention during the final months of the conflict, when virtually all road and rail transportation had been bombed out by the Allies.
    
    
38. What is typhus?
    This disease always appears when many people are jammed together under unsanitary conditions. It is carried by lice that infest hair and clothes. Ironically, if the Germans had used more Zyklon B, more Jews might have survived the camps.
    
    
39. What is the difference if six million or 300,000 Jews died during the Second World War?
    5,700,000.
    
    
40. Some Jewish "death camp" survivors say they saw bodies being dumped into pits and burned. How much fuel would have been required for this?
    A great deal more than the Germans had access to, as there was a substantial fuel shortage during the war.
    
    
41. Can bodies be burned in pits?
    No. It is impossible for human bodies to be totally consumed by flames in this manner because of lack of oxygen.
    
    
42. Holocaust historians claim that the Nazis were able to cremate bodies in about ten minutes. How long does it take to incinerate one body, according to professional crematory operators?
    About an hour and a half, although the larger bones require further processing afterwards.
    
    
43. Why did the German concentration camps have crematory ovens?
    To dispose efficiently and sanitarily of the corpses of those who had died.
    
    
44. Given a 100 percent duty cycle of all the crematories in all the camps in German-controlled territory, what is the maximum number of corpses it would have been possible to incinerate during the entire period such crematories were in operation?
    About 430,600.
    
    
45. Can a crematory oven be operated 100 percent of the time?
    No. Fifty percent of the time is a generous estimate (12 hours per day). Crematory ovens have to be cleaned thoroughly and regularly when in heavy operation.
    
    
46. How much ash is left from a cremated corpse?
    After the bone is all ground down, about a shoe box full.
    
    
47. If six million people had been incinerated by the Nazis, what happened to the ashes?
    That remains to be "explained." Six million bodies would have produced many tons of ashes, yet there is no evidence of any large ash depositories.
    
    
48. Do Allied wartime aerial reconnaissance photos of Auschwitz (taken during the period when the "gas chambers" and crematoria were supposedly in full operation) show evidence of extermination?
    No. In fact, these photographs do not even reveal a trace of the enormous amount of smoke that supposedly was constantly over the camp, nor do they show evidence of the "open pits" in which bodies were allegedly burned.
    
    
49. What was the main provision of the German "Nuremberg Laws" of 1935?
    They forbid marriage and sexual relations between Germans and Jews, similar to laws existing in Israel today.
    
    
50. Were there any American precedents for the Nuremberg Laws?
    Years before Hitler's Third Reich, most states in the USA had enacted laws prohibiting marriage between persons of different races.
    
    
51. What did the International Red Cross have to report with regard to the "Holocaust" question?
    An official report on the visit of an IRC delegation to Auschwitz in September 1944 pointed out that internees were permitted to receive packages, and that rumors of gas chambers could not be verified.
    
    
52. What was the role of the Vatican during the time six million Jews were allegedly being exterminated?
    If there had been an extermination plan, the Vatican would most certainly have been in a position to know about it. But because there was none, the Vatican had no reason to speak out against it, and didn't.
    
    
53. What evidence is there that Hitler knew of an on-going Jewish extermination program?
    None.
    
    
54. Did the Nazis and the Zionists collaborate?
    As early as 1933, Hitler's government signed an agreement with the Zionists permitting Jews to emigrate from Germany to Palestine, taking large amounts of capital with them.
    
    
55. How did Anne Frank die?
    After surviving internment in Auschwitz, she succumbed to typhus in the Bergen-Belsen camp, just a few weeks before the end of the war. She was not gassed.
    
    
56. Is the Anne Frank Diary genuine?
    No. Evidence compiled by Dr. Robert Faurisson of France establishes that the famous diary is a literary hoax.
    
    
57. What about the familiar photographs and film footage taken in the liberated German camps showing piles of emaciated corpses? Are these faked?
    Photographs can be faked, but it's far easier merely to add a misleading caption to a photo or commentary to a piece of footage. Piles of emaciated corpses do not mean that these people were "gassed" or deliberately starved to death. Actually, these were tragic victims of raging epidemics or of starvation due to a lack of food in the camps toward the end of the war.
    
    
58. Who originated the term "genocide"?
    Raphael Lemkin, a Polish Jew, in a book published in 1944.
    
    
59. Are films such as "Schindler's List" or "The Winds of War" documentaries?
    No. Such films are fictional dramatizations loosely based on history. Unfortunately, all too many people accept them as accurate historical representations.
    
    
60. How many books have been published that refute some aspect of the standard "Holocaust" story?
    Dozens. More are in production.
    
    
61. What happened when the Institute for Historical Review offered $50,000 to anyone who could prove that Jews were gassed at Auschwitz?
    No proof was submitted as a claim on the reward, but the Institute was sued for $17 million by former Auschwitz inmate Mel Mermelstein, who claimed that the reward offer caused him to lose sleep and his business to suffer, and represented "injurious denial of established fact."
    
    
62. What about the charge that those who question the Holocaust story are merely anti-Semitic or neo-Nazi?
    This is a smear designed to draw attention away from facts and honest arguments. Scholars who refute Holocaust story claims are of all persuasions and ethnic-religious backgrounds (including Jewish). There is no correlation between "Holocaust" refutation and anti-Semitism or neo-Nazism. Increasing numbers of Jewish scholars openly admit the lack of evidence for key Holocaust claims.
    
    
63. What has happened to "revisionist" historians who have challenged the Holocaust story?
    They have been subjected to smear campaigns, loss of academic positions, loss of pensions, destruction of their property and physical violence.
    
    
64. Has the Institute for Historical Review suffered any retaliation for its efforts to uphold the right of freedom of speech and academic freedom?
    The IHR had been bombed three times, and was completely destroyed on July 4, 1984, in a criminal arson attack. Numerous death threats by telephone have been received. Media coverage of the IHR has been overwhelmingly hostile.
    
    
65. Why is there so little publicity for the revisionist view?
    Because for political reasons the Establishment does not want any in-depth discussion about the facts surrounding the Holocaust story.
    
    
66. Where can I get more information about the "other side" of the Holocaust story, as well as facts concerning other aspects of World War II historical revisionism?
    The Institute for Historical Review, P.O. Box 2739, Newport Beach, CA 92659, carries a wide variety of books, cassette and video tapes on significant historical subjects.
    

 

[Irredemable Retardation]

I will repeat it: Is there any evidence for the resettlement of Jews? (Or any alternative fate they could get instead of gassings)
The Holocaust (And the other crimes ignored in popular consciousness such as the Hunger Plan and the Intelligenzaktion) were the logical conclusion of National Socialism.
also lmao they claimed Russians and Ukranians had "asian" influence when moderm genetic tests say otherwise

 

[The Tall Man]

I will repeat it: Is there any evidence for the resettlement of Jews? (Or any alternative fate they could get instead of gassings)

Here you go.

I made a little visual aid of Jewish world population from 1500 to 2022.
Seems totally legit.

From 1880 (7.8mil) to 1939 (16.7mil) according to the Jewish virtual library Jews had a population growth like rabbits.
Is this why the word rabbi is so close to the word rabbit?

If you are unable to come up with the extraordinary evidence for this extraordinary population growth, then your question is wrong.
If you think the doubling in population within 59 years is real, then dm me I have some amazing beach front property in Kansas to sell you.

Germany had an enormous need for unskilled labor

next sentence

Jews could be worked to death with no added consequences.

Does thinking hurt your head?

Shipping them by rail was cheap and didn't require use of scarce fuel

Das Rite, those Germans had free energy train, they ran on evil satanic Nazi energy.

 

[DDR Yoga]

One things that would really convince me the holocaust happened would be the ADL denying it.

 

[The Tall Man]

The Holocaust definitely happened, I think the evidence is too strong to doubt it.

Cole and Dawson currently assert that everything essentially transpired in Treblinka, Belzec and Sobibor. They both adopt a position of "limited Holocaust" fence-sitting, likely because they couldn't withstand the heat. Dawson, in particular, comes across as rather pitiful. He is aware of Dean Irebodd's work and has even incorporated clips into his own projects, yet he lacks the courage to expose the laughably inconsistent and unbelievable "evidence" supporting the claim that Treblinka, Belzec and Sobibor represent the real death camps. Despite this, he's too self-absorbed to remain silent on the matter and relinquish his supposedly "based" controversial stance about the holocaust. On the other hand, Cole seems like a nerd who got beaten up by Jewish mobsters for his opinion and, ultimately, was intimidated into silence.

The holocaust orthodoxy underwent significant changes over time, and presently, it asserts that all intentional killings occurred in Treblinka, Belzec and Sobibor. Strikingly, there is no substantial hard evidence supporting this claim; instead, reliance is placed largely on eyewitness accounts to substantiate it. Even the layout of the death camps is derived from eyewitness testimony rather than thorough archaeological research.

I highly recommend that people watch this and pay close attention to the witnesses and narratives that the orthodoxy deems as legitimate evidence.
"getting gassed via vacuum" "getting gassed with a submarine diesel engine" "Nazis cutting the hair to make mattresses out of Jewish hair"

One Third of the Holocaust, Dean Irebodd, Denier Bud, 4hr,15min, Reposted Jan 23, 2023

COMPLETE DOCUMENTARY - BELZEC, SOBIBOR, TREBLINKA ONE OF THE BEST Detailed Examinations of Holocaust Hoax, Reposted, Jan 23, 2023

odysee.com

 

[Lemmingwiser]

The holocaust orthodoxy underwent significant changes over time, and presently, it asserts that all intentional killings occurred in Treblinka, Belzec and Sobibor. Strikingly, there is no substantial hard evidence supporting this claim; instead, reliance is placed largely on eyewitness accounts to substantiate it. Even the layout of the death camps is derived from eyewitness testimony rather than thorough archaeological research.

Who asserts this? My first 10 google results such as holocaust encyclopedia all assert auschwitz first

 

[Irredemable Retardation]

"B-but the holocost makes no sense cuz germoney was in a dire situation" is one of the worst revisionist arguments to be fair.
Ideological fanatics, no matter how informed and smart, do not care about logic and facts, many here should know this given the extensive amount of leftist lolcows, and even left-leaning non-cow "intellectuals", with heir and actions.
For National Socialists, Jews were a parasitic force in the world, and anything but total extermination would make them able to regroup and start conspiracies to keep da aryan man down.
Hitler outright refused the deportation of jews to Siberia because he believed they would adapt and become stronger in his social-darwinistic view.
The entire Generalplan Ost would be a massive burden to the German economy, but they did not care and started it anyway.

 

[The Tall Man]

@Lemmingwiser
You are right, they are still holding on to Auschwitz Birkenau, can't drop that name it has too much propaganda connected to it.
My own bias lead me to exclude the retardation about Auschwitz, no one can defend the story of that morgue being a gas chamber with any seriousness.
To some extend many are still holding on to 6million being accurate.

anything but total extermination would make them able to regroup and start conspiracies to keep da aryan man down.

This is were you are doing what you just criticized, being an ideologue. I have not seen any credible evidence to support this claim.

Same goes for this

Hitler outright refused the deportation of jews to Siberia because he believed they would adapt and become stronger in his social-darwinistic view.

If you have already made up a motivation in your head for what the Germans really secretly wanted then you are not thinking clear.

P.S. In your worldview how do you rationalize the Haavara Agreement away?
Unlike what you posted it actually aligns with what the Nazi party stated publicly, that they want Jews out of Germany.
And it also makes strategic sense because allowing the Zionist Jews to start causing trouble in Palestine would be burden upon the British.

 

[Ashkenazi Porn Actress]

Who asserts this? My first 10 google results such as holocaust encyclopedia all assert auschwitz first

Take a look at this for example:

Quantifying the Holocaust: Hyperintense kill rates during the Nazi genocide