The Holocaust Thread - The Great Debate Between Affirmers, Revisionists and Deniers

This is were you are doing what you just criticized, being an ideologue. I have not seen any credible evidence to support this claim.

Same goes for this


If you have already made up a motivation in your head for what the Germans really secretly wanted then you are not thinking clear.
About the jews in siberia, it's said in the Goebbels diaries: "The Führer also doesn't wish that the jews are evacuated to Siberia.
There, in the harshest living conditions, they would without doubt come to represent again a vital element."
 
Sorry (not sorry) for not reading 255 pages.
Anyone refuted the red cross numbers for those killed in the camps or the stats on amount of Jews in Europe before/after ww2?
 
Sorry (not sorry) for not reading 255 pages.
Anyone refuted the red cross numbers for those killed in the camps or the stats on amount of Jews in Europe before/after ww2?
You are beyond lazy, I brought up one page back, the simple fact that a doubling of the Jewish world population from 1880 to 1939 is impossible.
Goebbels diaries

I'm interested in examining a scan of the original German version of that sentence. The sentence doesn't appear to be in proper English.

Engaging in a debate over a single sentence is only justified if you can present a logical argument for how the Haavara Agreement's existence doesn't entirely contradict your perspective.

Here is what you need to make a good case for.
and anything but total extermination


As proof, the Haavara Agreement holds significantly more weight since it represents an actual occurrence rather than something someone may have merely stated.
 
I'm interested in examining a scan of the original German version of that sentence. The sentence doesn't appear to be in proper English.
There it is.
 

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You are beyond lazy, I brought up one page back, the simple fact that a doubling of the Jewish world population from 1880 to 1939 is impossible
Wouldn't that just be solved by each Jewish family having one more baby then normal?
Or more Jewish families forming then average?
Or loosening the definition of Jew to cover more people?

Not impossible, but something that has to be further investigated
 
There it is.
Are you intentionally being a dishonest person or are you simply a bit slow in the head?
Because literally the next sentence of the diary disproves the point you are trying to make.

"Dort unter härtesten Lebensbedingungen würden sie zweifellos wieder ein lebenskräftiges Element darstellen. Er möchte sie am liebsten nach Zentralafrika aussiedeln."
"He would prefer to resettle them to central Africa"


How about you stop lying for a minute and address my point about the Haavara Agreement?

Wouldn't that just be solved by each Jewish family having one more baby then normal?
A phenomena like this unusual surge in the Jewish population is not observed in any other genetically defined human group.
It's crucial not to confuse these figures with a country's population, as a country's population can change rapidly, simply reflecting the number of people residing in a specific area.
I am referring to the total number of individuals belonging to the Jewish ethnic group worldwide, eliminating the impact of migration.

Jews exhibit one of the slowest growth rates.

The growth rate of the Jewish population has been below the global average and is expected to remain lower than the global average in the future.
Natural population patterns do not undergo drastic changes within a mere 60 years without a dramatic cause.
I can assert with absolute certainty that the genetic group known as Jews cannot double in size within 59 years.

The only plausible explanation is a significant integration of people previously not identified as Jews into the Jewish group, although I have not encountered any evidence supporting this claim.
 
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Are you intentionally being a dishonest person or are you simply a bit slow in the head?
Because literally the next sentence of the diary disproves the point you are trying to make.

"Dort unter härtesten Lebensbedingungen würden sie zweifellos wieder ein lebenskräftiges Element darstellen. Er möchte sie am liebsten nach Zentralafrika aussiedeln."
"He would prefer to resettle them to central Africa"


How about you stop lying for a minute and address my point about the Haavara Agreement?


A phenomena like this unusual surge in the Jewish population is not observed in any other genetically defined human group.
It's crucial not to confuse these figures with a country's population, as a country's population can change rapidly, simply reflecting the number of people residing in a specific area.
I am referring to the total number of individuals belonging to the Jewish ethnic group worldwide, eliminating the impact of migration.

Jews exhibit one of the slowest growth rates.

The growth rate of the Jewish population has been below the global average and is expected to remain lower than the global average in the future.
Natural population patterns do not undergo drastic changes within a mere 60 years without a dramatic cause.
I can assert with absolute certainty that the genetic group known as Jews cannot double in size within 59 years.

The only plausible explanation is a significant integration of people previously not identified as Jews into the Jewish group, although I have not encountered any evidence supporting this claim.
I'm convinced these people are, in effect, willfully stupid
 
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Everyone already laughed at your dumb post before.
eplain graph for dumb people.png

Allow me to clarify why I find your perspective questionable.

The graph you've presented to illustrate the substantial growth of a particular human ethnic group includes a small note at the bottom.
Historical country data is shown based on today's geographical borders.

Specifically, the graph represents the population within the present-day borders of Japan.
It does not represent the number of Japanese people in the world.

You completely ignored the Meiji Restoration.
You also don't realize that what you showed doesn't show an unnatural 59 year spike that exhibited growth rates not seen before or after.
Something called an anomaly, and a rational person would want an explanation for that.

A basic grasp of history would reveal that following the dismantling of the Empire of Japan, a significant number of Japanese people residing now outside Japan were repatriated.

To aid comprehension, I will use visuals so that even those who may be slower to grasp the concept can follow along.

Consider all the Japanese individuals who resided in this area,
Japanese_Empire_(orthographic_projection).svg.png
had to move to here.
Japan_(orthographic_projection).svg.png
These are the borders the graph talks about.

And this little graph here is the world wide Jewish population, which excludes migration (because it being the "world wide" Jewish population).
cutelittlegraph.png

You are being a little silly billy by comparing two different things.
Particularly because your graph lacks any expressiveness regarding biological growth of a specific ethnic group.

I have provided rational explanations for the trends observed in the graph concerning Japan.
Now, could you please offer an explanation for the anomaly observed in these 59 years shown in my little graph?
 
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Are you intentionally being a dishonest person or are you simply a bit slow in the head?
Because literally the next sentence of the diary disproves the point you are trying to make.

"Dort unter härtesten Lebensbedingungen würden sie zweifellos wieder ein lebenskräftiges Element darstellen. Er möchte sie am liebsten nach Zentralafrika aussiedeln."
"He would prefer to resettle them to central Africa"


How about you stop lying for a minute and address my point about the Haavara Agreement?
Ok, sorry for not being clear enough, but the intent in my posts was not disproving the National Socialist regime's first attempts at getting rid of the jews through "non violent" means, but to show how Hitler's social-darwinism played a role in his thoughts about them as a people.

The problem is that Jews were still seen as a parasitic entity that should not thrive under any circumstances, so forcing them to settle in a harsh cold climate, the type that according to Hitler gave the Nordic/Aryan race a work ethic and capabilities that made it superior to other races, would be a stupid idea according to his racial theories.

Later when these ressettlement plans proved themselves impossible, first because of practicality then because the war was being lost, the extermination campaigns (that were still happening through the Einsatzgruppen) became more zealous and intense.
 
@OlderSocks
You just keep making assertions and you fail to back them up.

This is your position so either make a case for it or retract it.
For National Socialists, Jews were a parasitic force in the world, and anything but total extermination would make them able to regroup and start conspiracies to keep da aryan man down.
The quote you provided does not demonstrate Hitler's endorsement of social Darwinism. Your interpretation relies on the assumption that Germans are Hollywood Nazi villains. If you approach the quote without presupposing Germans' inherent villainy, you might simply see Hitler expressing concern about the harshness of Siberia, while Goebbels believes they could thrive there.

The dialogue unfolds with Hitler stating, "I don't want to send them to Siberia," countered by Goebbels' optimistic objection, "They would surely come to be a prospering element in Siberia." Hitler then suggests an alternative solution of sending them to Central Africa.

This interpretation allows for a straightforward understanding, eliminating the need to infer hidden malicious motives between the lines.


I don't claim to be a historian focusing on Hitler, so I won't venture into speculating about his inner thoughts. However, I do recognize that the widespread notion of blue eyed, blonde people being superior is merely a fabrication created by Hollywood.

It appears to be a clear case of projection by Jewish Hollywood. Judaism maintains a belief of Jews possessing a soul made of light, while they perceive goyim as having a soul emanating from the Sitra Achra, the evil other side.


Selected by a higher power, these divine prophets serve as mouthpieces for the creator of all things. Their exceptional intellect is often highlighted by them. Additionally, their narrative emphasizes the notion that Esau is inherently predisposed to harbor animosity toward Jacob, symbolizing the belief that individuals outside the Jewish community are inherently inclined to harbor a built-in hate towards them.

The whole Hollywood born notion of German supremacy is obvious Jewish projection, all you have to do is look at Israel to realize this.

Later when these ressettlement plans proved themselves impossible, first because of practicality then because the war was being lost, the extermination campaigns (that were still happening through the Einsatzgruppen) became more zealous and intense.
Now, read the first quote of you in this post.

If you don't perceive any inconsistency, allow me to clarify.
If your assertion is that Germans considered Jews so malevolent that they warranted extermination to prevent perpetual scheming and the suppression of Arian people, the concept of resettlement becomes illogical. Instead, the logical course of action would be to gather all Jews in a German controlled area for efficient extermination. Sending them to a region under England's influence, particularly when they are in conflict with Germany, would place them beyond their reach, contradicting the notion of a need for total extermination.

You must show compelling evidence to support the claim that German leadership underwent a significant shift in their perspective during the final years of the war, particularly if you suggest a newfound interest in TJD. Alternatively, offering a logical and coherent explanation for such a change in perspective could create credibility for your claim
 
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Wouldn't that just be solved by each Jewish family having one more baby then normal?
Or more Jewish families forming then average?
Or loosening the definition of Jew to cover more people?

Not impossible, but something that has to be further investigated
It's only growth of 1.6% per year to double the population in 59 years. Germany's domestic population itself increased 70% from 1880 to 1939 and that's net of the effects of millions of emigrants during the 19th century and losses in WWI.

There were huge advances in medicine and sanitation in the late 19th century that reduced child mortality and significantly increased life expectancy. That more than anything drove the acceleration in population growth both in the developed world and developing and colonial territories.

More people living considerably longer will increase the population even if the actual birth rates didn't change at all.
 
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If you approach the quote without presupposing Germans' inherent villainy, you might simply see Hitler expressing concern about the harshness of Siberia, while Goebbels believes they could thrive there.
If you read the passage in context the social darwinist reasoning becomes very clear:
Die Deutschen beteiligen sich an subversiven Bewegungen immer nur, wenn die Juden sie dazu verführen. Deshalb muß man die jüdi¬ sche Gefahr liquidieren, koste es, was es wolle. Wie wenig die Juden sich dem westeuropäischen Leben in Wirklichkeit angleichen kön¬ nen, sieht man daran, daß, wo sie ins Ghetto zurückgeführt werden, sie auch sehr schnell wieder ghettoisiert werden. Westeuropäische Zivilisation stellt bei ihnen nur einen äußeren Farbanstrich dar. Es gibt allerdings auch unter den Juden Elemente, die mit einer gefähr¬ lichen Brutalität und Rachsucht zu Werke gehen. Deshalb wünscht der Führer auch gar nicht, daß die Juden nach Sibirien evakuiert werden. Dort unter härtesten Lebensbedingungen würden sie zwei¬ fellos wieder ein lebenskräftiges Element darstellen. Er möchte sie am liebsten nach Zentralafrika aussiedeln. Dort leben sie in einem Klima, das sie gewiß nicht stark und widerstandsfähig macht.
It is the dangerous and revanchist elements among the Jews who would thrive in Siberia, so they should be send to central Africa instead where the climate would not strenghen them.
 
A basic grasp of history would reveal that following the dismantling of the Empire of Japan, a significant number of Japanese people residing now outside Japan were repatriated.
If you think the doubling in population within 59 years is real, then dm me I have some amazing beach front property in Kansas to sell you.
Sure, so let's look at the 60 year time period (1880 - 1940) that you were concerned with regarding Jews. The Empire was not dismantled at this point and we can also say Japan leaked a considerable portion of its population.

In 1880 37 million. In 1940 73 million . Yup it doubled, same as the Jews.


Something called an anomaly, and a rational person would want an explanation for that.
yeah industrialization, improvements in medicine, better food access
 
Dort leben sie in einem Klima, das sie gewiß nicht stark und widerstandsfähig macht.
Indeed, this demonstrates a clear inclination towards social Darwinism.

Goebbels' appearance has always struck me as relatively frail and faggy, and it appears he aligns with the nurture theory, pathetic.
Furthermore, it suggests that Goebbels and Hitler were advocating for a non-violent approach to addressing the liquidation of German Jewry.
@OlderSocks is a genius at contradicting the point he is trying to make.

If Goebbels' perspective seems shocking or unusually harsh to anyone, it may be because they are unfamiliar with the prevailing ideologies of that time.

To be direct, whether Goebbels or Hitler were social Darwinists is not pertinent to substantiating @OlderSocks' assertion.
For National Socialists, Jews were a parasitic force in the world, and anything but total extermination would make them able to regroup and start conspiracies to keep da aryan man down.
This is what he needs to make a case for, not show that Goebbels held the normie believes of his time.

Germany's domestic population itself
Comparing apples and oranges here. I won't repeat myself. Provide a comparable instance to the 59-year spike observed globally for an ethnic group, not within a specific country's border. Alternatively, offer a sound and logical explanation.
It's only growth of 1.6% per year
A mere 34.4% uptick from the global average of 1.05%, considering a demographic group that historically had one of the lowest growth rates before 1880 and after 1939. Nothing to see here.

Decreased child mortality rates result in higher life expectancy; this is basic arithmetic. However, it does not change the age at which adults, having surpassed childhood, face mortality.

Explain how, after the spike, growth returns to the patterns observed before the surge.

@Chugger You completely ignored the Meiji Restoration.
Present the spike in the graph and illustrate how, following the spike, growth reverts to the trends observed prior to the spike.

For both of you, the Industrial Revolution occurred in Germany between 1830 and 1875. In contrast, the Meiji Restoration took place in Japan from 1868 to 1912, and it can be cited as a factor in discussing population growth in Japan in the time frame we are discussing. However, the focus of our discussion is not on the Jewish diaspora in Japan.
 
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