The Last of Us Franchise - Because it's apparently a franchise now. This thread has been double-DMCA’d by Sony Interactive Entertainment.

[Adamska]

neil would rage at the idea of players making choices against what he wants in the story. Everything has to be scripted to be how he wants it. That's why you cant hit Nadine ever in UC4, even though an actual knock down drag out fight would make her seem cooler, tougher and more likable than the mary sue QTA bullshit.

If he was at all talented and really wanted to tell the "End the cycle of violence!!" revenge bad story he'd have designed the game so you never have to kill humans, only zombies. You can do a fucking no kill run in Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance, an over the top crazy action game, but not TLoU2

The moment I always think to is the fact you cannot shoot anything in the Jewish Temple he made rather than a library because Niel wanted to crow and cry third hand oppression from the fact he's a Jew.

Again, I don't like Toby's games due to them coming off as preachy, but the fucker at least lets you do you even if he disagrees with it. Niel refuses to and it's a testament to the failure of the entertainment industry a retarded hack with delusions of adequacy like him can nuke and destroy a company several times and NOT get violently blacklisted. And how a male feminist who booted a woman out of the company out of bitchiness and who forced women to watch violent deaths is not cancelled.

 

[Marissa Moira]

The moment I always think to is the fact you cannot shoot anything in the Jewish Temple he made rather than a library because Niel wanted to crow and cry third hand oppression from the fact he's a Jew.

Again, I don't like Toby's games due to them coming off as preachy, but the fucker at least lets you do you even if he disagrees with it. Niel refuses to and it's a testament to the failure of the entertainment industry a retarded hack with delusions of adequacy like him can nuke and destroy a company several times and NOT get violently blacklisted. And how a male feminist who booted a woman out of the company out of bitchiness and who forced women to watch violent deaths is not cancelled.

I can't remember if Druckman said he liked Tarantino movies

Hell this has been going on for much longer since Harlan Ellison even said similar things on how fiction is approached.

 

[Neet Tokusatsu]

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This game still has lefties excusing a megacorporation's exploitative labor practices. What a world.

TLOU2 is better than literally any game to these people.
Red Dead Redemption 2? TLOU2 is better
Super Mario Odyssey? TLOU2 is better
The Witcher 3? TLOU2 is better
Left 4 Dead? TLOU2 is better
Half-Life 2? TLOU2 is better
Fucking TLOU1? TLOU2 is better

Jesus Chandler could come down from heaven with the most amazing Sonichu game ever created and they'd still say TLOU2 would be better.

It's been like 2 years since TLOU2 launched, and the people who hated it back then, going from people who legitimately loved the first game and hated this sequel, to people who just jumped in the bandwagon just to mock this trainwreck of a game, all of them moved on with their lives long ago, hell i most of the time forget about TLOU2 existence, but this thread gets new posts from time to tome, mostly because some people on Twitter still find the need to defend this game, seriously, people defending TLOU2 whether they played it or not, probably don't have a lot going on in their lives.

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

To play devil’s advocate, the original TLOU didn’t let you choose to save Ellie/let her die, but that’s because I’m going to assume the majority of people wanted to save Ellie because the game made you care about her and the Fireflies came off as a bunch of assholes, hence why Joel shot that bitch in the gut at the end.

I’m betting that most people would have drowned Abby, given the chance, but Noel doesn’t want that, so….

 

[c-no]

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Meanwhile some of the fans go "it's about obsession, not revenge." Sure except I'm pretty sure the two can overlap and you can say "revenge bad" by showing what the protag lost in the end regardless. Then again the fanboys may as well care more about trying to own haters and people they think are "incels" than bothering to make a better point to counter "revenge bad "claims.

Apparently, it was because he thought that it "went against Ellie's character" or something, I'm not sure.

All it really proves to me is that he is less interested in trying to make the narrative and gameplay coalesce with each other, and more him treating the latter as just a stopgap for the former.

"Going against Ellie's character" or breaking some narrative he wanted, Neil still could of given players that option to kill Abby while thinking of a way to have a person wonder if that was worth it after Ellie goes back to an empty farm house.

It's been like 2 years since TLOU2 launched, and the people who hated it back then, going from people who legitimately loved the first game and hated this sequel, to people who just jumped in the bandwagon just to mock this trainwreck of a game, all of them moved on with their lives long ago, hell i most of the time forget about TLOU2 existence, but this thread gets new posts from time to tome, mostly because some people on Twitter still find the need to defend this game, seriously, people defending TLOU2 whether they played it or not, probably don't have a lot going on in their lives.

Meanwhile the ones being full-on tards in how they defend the game manage to make whatever there is to the fanbase come off as obnoxious because some tard wants to go on how a third person shooter is more fluid compared to "PS2 era jank" such as Metro or Animal Crossing. Outside of how the game goes with it's story, I'd imagine it would of also gotten less shit thrown at it if it didn't have as much obnoxious fans, genuine or not, trying to praise the game while shit-talking other ones. The game itself just looks meh but the fans trying to make awards sound like it's something or how some footage of gameplay makes it look great don't really do the game any favors.

 

[Next Task]

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Not a fair comparison, honestly, because the ending of Cruella (spoilers, though I doubt anyone cares) is that she frames someone for her own murder, based on that person literally pushing her off a cliff in front of lots of people. If they'd not actually tried to kill Cruella (and this is after killing her mother and leaving her to burn to death in a fire), then they wouldn't have been arrested for a murder they tried to commit, but the potential victim survived.

The equivalent would have been if Ellie had taken Abby off the cross but then Abby started the fight afterwards, not Ellie, and if that had happened and Ellie still let her go I don't think anyone except the most pre-programmed NPCs could possibly like the ending. From what I can tell, that would actually make more sense for the final fight than what happens, because Abby's shown as much more of a single-minded psycho with a troon-armour-mandated attachment to only one other person.

But no, Abby and Lev instead have to deal with Ellie saving their lives, trying to end their lives, and then saving their lives again. It makes her look incredibly stupid and allows someone who has shown no compunction in trying to murder her in the past, and has been shown to hold a severe grudge even after someone has saved their life, to go live, get strong again, and come back to finish the job. A Disney film is better at recognising that at some point you just can't keep giving people more chances to hurt you than TLOU2.

 

[Optimus Prime]

"Going against Ellie's character" or breaking some narrative he wanted, Neil still could of given players that option to kill Abby while thinking of a way to have a person wonder if that was worth it after Ellie goes back to an empty farm house.

Honestly nothing even needed to be changed - like, have the player make the decision to go after Abby or have Ellie stay on the farm with her girlfriend, stepchild, and the other dumbfuck, and have the whole final section be optional. Then change the bad ending to the player actually killing Abby and it plays out like it does in the game currently.

The reality is Neil simply didn't want Abby to die, period, nor let Ellie have anything approaching a good ending. Abby and Lev were supposed to be the replacements of the original duo and the attempt failed miserably.

 

[Anachronistic]

One thing TLOU2 stans will praise about the game is that "the enemies you kill act like real human beings" and stuff like that. They act like this stuff is revolutionary.

I've been replaying Hitman Absolution recently, there's a lot of moments in the game when you're stealthing your way through and you can hear NPC's converse. All of it humanizes the people around you can makes it sort of uncomfortable to subdue them and such. For example, there's a trucker guy outside Dexter Industries that is asked by another trucker how the road has been treating him, he responds that it's been good and that his wife just had a baby girl. The same trucker then mentions that some annoying fat lady is working the front entrance and that his pal should steer clear. Sure enough, the front entrance has another trucker arguing with some land whale whose clearly loving her job too much.

Another example is when you're in Chinatown and one of your targets lures a shopkeep to follow him. Once he has him secluded in an alleyway, he threatens to shoot the shopkeep for knowledge on an informant. The target is clearly a lunatic and is very unstable, making his actions toward a random shopkeep sorta make sense. The poor shopkeep himself begs and whimpers for his life in a realistic fashion. The game is full of these moments everywhere and it feels pretty shitty to attack or subdue these people if you get spotted.

The weakest entry in the Hitman franchise humanized it's NPC's 9 years prior to TLOU2, probably in a better fashion too, yet the stans ignore this.

 

[Raiken]

Just finished resident evil revalations 2 and all i van say that it was a better the last of us then part 2 at the Berry sections.

 

[Internet's Boyfriend]

To make the gore look super-duper realistic so you would feel bad about killing people.

Last of Us 2 staff rubbish rumours of being forced to watch gruesome videos while making game

The misunderstanding came after an article was misquoted saying that employees watched made to watch videos featuring human mutilation while developing the game.

www.ginx.tv

Note that despite Naughty Dog employees trying to tamper the rumors back then by saying they weren't forced to watch it, they still confirmed that yes: this was a thing employees were supposed to do to get a better understanding of the gore when working on the game. So technically nobody was forced to watch them, but it feels like it was very much a "you better watch this snuff shit or else your job might be on the line because you won't know what the fuck you're supposed to be doing for my opus" kinda deal for the employees.

But that it's fine cuz NetherRealms employees had to do that as well. Despite the fact that the core gimmick of Mortal Kombat since its inception was to be as gory as possible whereas The Last of Us...wasn't ever that, and literally nobody ever asked for it to be like that.

Obviously it's shitty to make your employees watch LiveLeak but it also just seems unnecessary. Wouldn't it be a better idea to look into forensic medicine or something?

 

[Neet Tokusatsu]

A Disney film is better at recognising that at some point you just can't keep giving people more chances to hurt you than TLOU2.

Specially in a post-apocalyptic world such as in TLOU2, like if you want to make a "revenge bad" kid of story? fine i guess, but don't make your story take place in a post societal collapse setting, a world where is pretty much "kill or be killed", no sane human being would jeopardize their own survival by forgiving someone that threatened their life earlier.

Like many people already mentioned, TLOU2 constantly seems to forget it is supposed to take place in zombie apocalypse, since no one seems to be concerned for food (bigot sandwiches), shelter or their own safety, as if most of humanity being wiped out by mushroom zombies were just a minor inconvenience and not something that would chance the way humans live forever.

 

[Hazel Motes]

One thing TLOU2 stans will praise about the game is that "the enemies you kill act like real human beings" and stuff like that. They act like this stuff is revolutionary.

I've been replaying Hitman Absolution recently, there's a lot of moments in the game when you're stealthing your way through and you can hear NPC's converse. All of it humanizes the people around you can makes it sort of uncomfortable to subdue them and such. For example, there's a trucker guy outside Dexter Industries that is asked by another trucker how the road has been treating him, he responds that it's been good and that his wife just had a baby girl. The same trucker then mentions that some annoying fat lady is working the front entrance and that his pal should steer clear. Sure enough, the front entrance has another trucker arguing with some land whale whose clearly loving her job too much.

Another example is when you're in Chinatown and one of your targets lures a shopkeep to follow him. Once he has him secluded in an alleyway, he threatens to shoot the shopkeep for knowledge on an informant. The target is clearly a lunatic and is very unstable, making his actions toward a random shopkeep sorta make sense. The poor shopkeep himself begs and whimpers for his life in a realistic fashion. The game is full of these moments everywhere and it feels pretty shitty to attack or subdue these people if you get spotted.

The weakest entry in the Hitman franchise humanized it's NPC's 9 years prior to TLOU2, probably in a better fashion too, yet the stans ignore this.

Yea, I replayed Kane & Lynch 2 recently and I've come to the conclusion it handles violence much better than LOU2 ever does. Even the leads, despite paper-thin characterisation, have more meaning to them. They're pieces of shit and that's the point. It works.

 

[M3xus]

The Jedi Knight games have small bits where, if you take it slow, you can overhear enemy conversations. Now, they're late 90s to early 2000s FPS games and this is completely undocumented, so chances are good you'll never hear them going the normal pace for those games, but overhearing the stormtrooper that wants to be a TIE pilot made me hesitate a little before shoving a lightsaber in him.

So this "humanizing the NPCs" thing goes back even further.

 

[Vault Boy]

Fallout 3 did that sort of thing too, where some raiders would flee and cower if the battle is very skewed against them.

Then again, they didn't shout names and the devs weren't forced to watch LiveLeak shit, so I guess that wouldn't count.

 

[SteelPlatedHeart]

Somewhat related, buuuuut…


And that’s because…


Take a guess how it’s going over.

 

[LightDragonman1]

Man, I think voicing all those characters at Naughty Dog and being so close knit with the team broke him.

I still remember when he was voicing such a colorful range of characters in lesser known but still memorable titles like Yuri Lowell, Kanji Tatsumi, Severin, Matt Baker, Pyrrhon, and Charles Gregory. Not to mention all his anime roles. Now he's stuck doing the same sort of voice for the same exact type of character in the same kind of AAA game.

Not unlike Laura Bailey, who went from voicing a wide range of beloved and lovable characters like Lucina, Rise Kujikawa, Kaine, Chun-Li, Rayne, Faye Lee, and Catherine, to the same exact "strong tough female" archetype in nothing but the same type of AAA title.

Man, I wish they never went union and stuck with what they are most remembered for. I mean, I know they gotta eat, but still, it's disheartening.

 

[Marissa Moira]

The game and it's sequel is about to be remastered and people are still bitching about it. Stop giving the marketing teams ammo or you'll doom yourselves to an endless release schedule like Skyrim.

Unless of course.....that's what you want.

Remember if people can like Centaur World and The Walking Dead which lasted for a gorillion seasons you can certainly cause TLOU to be just as long term by feeding the other side animosity.

Hell if you make TLOU seem so controversial it could wind up killing the Fallout TV series by just having the bigger name. Remember Star Wars didn't die, it just became the Mandalorean.

 

[capitalBBustard]

oh god the snoyfag finally found a way to rationalise the game being shit

 

[fishercat]

Fallout 3 did that sort of thing too, where some raiders would flee and cower if the battle is very skewed against them.

Then again, they didn't shout names and the devs weren't forced to watch LiveLeak shit, so I guess that wouldn't count.

Same applies to Skyrim. If I had a nickel for every time I've had to chase bandits down because they realized that attacking someone decked out in dragonscale armor is a bad idea, I'd have a shitton of nickels.

 

[Optimus Prime]

The Jedi Knight games have small bits where, if you take it slow, you can overhear enemy conversations. Now, they're late 90s to early 2000s FPS games and this is completely undocumented, so chances are good you'll never hear them going the normal pace for those games, but overhearing the stormtrooper that wants to be a TIE pilot made me hesitate a little before shoving a lightsaber in him.

So this "humanizing the NPCs" thing goes back even further.

Hell, in Just Cause 3 I actually bothered to read the profiles you get on all the army commanders who the game makes a point about killing to keep undermining the generic dictator big bad.

Each one was a unique, reasonable summary to understand the basics of the guy and 99% of them were all power mongering assholes who deserved the bullet in the head or whatever means I dispatched them with. Except one, whose profile read like the dude was a father trying to get a better military job all to support his 9 kids and he wasn't a true supporter of the dictator guy. I never even bothered going after him, it wasn't worth 100% completion which I wasn't going to get anyway (fuck those underwater briefcase collectibles).

TLOU2 tries "humanizing" the enemies, even the generic people you have to kill, by having them shout the names and shit, but ultimately that doesn't work since A) it's not optional, and B) the game pretty much forgets this on the final level when you carve a bloody path in the name of revenge that gets inexplicably dropped at the last second. Who were those people who crucified Abby? Even the game doesn't care if you kill them all.

The game and it's sequel is about to be remastered and people are still bitching about it. Stop giving the marketing teams ammo or you'll doom yourselves to an endless release schedule like Skyrim.

Unless of course.....that's what you want.

Remember if people can like Centaur World and The Walking Dead which lasted for a gorillion seasons you can certainly cause TLOU to be just as long term by feeding the other side animosity.

Hell if you make TLOU seem so controversial it could wind up killing the Fallout TV series by just having the bigger name. Remember Star Wars didn't die, it just became the Mandalorean.

The problem there is with TLOU2 simply not being good enough on its own. Almost its entire support at initial release was because people loved the story of the first game and wanted the continuation of it. Well, not only do we have that part of the story now, but it completely shat over everything most people wanted, made a spectacle of Joel's death, and sold so poorly that Sony's hidden the sales numbers ever since that initial release month. The game itself has adequate gameplay but it's nothing particularly spectacular. And unlike Skyrim, there's no modding community let alone DLC.

The only way TLOU2 could even hope to reach the same numbers as before is if they tease a different achievable ending. I'm sure a LOT of people would gladly pay full price just for the opportunity to finally kill Abby, it worked for all the Sniper Elite games with the Hitler DLCs allowing you to kill him in many marvelous ways (including castration with bullet).