The Linux Thread - The Autist's OS of Choice

[Betonhaus]

For a pro-systemd view, this posting by an Arch developer (from 2012 when Arch adopted it) is fairly detailed:
https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1149530#p1149530

I feel like there's an extra level of snobbyness in starting a written checklist at zero.

 

[Trans Fat 41g]

I honestly just don't think about it that much if it hadn't gotten in my way... operatively yet anyways.

 

[Darkholme's Dungeon]

I honestly just don't think about it that much if it hadn't gotten in my way... operatively yet anyways.

I remember trying to use systemd during the transitions and it was a complete shitshow.

 

[Lone Wandering Courier]

Am I really the only one who likes systemd? I love how easy it is to write service units and timers, and how powerful all the tools are.

journalctl and systemctl status could do with different defaults though. The pagination without line breaks is fucking awfully UX.

Redditors also like systemd and think it's the best thing since sliced bread. I don't like how large and bloated it is and I recall there being dns leaks that were intentionally never going to get fixed, but I have to admit it is the easiest one I've used.

 

[Trans Fat 41g]

I remember trying to use systemd during the transitions and it was a complete shitshow.

I can imagine. I'm not unfamiliar with spurious Housing Authority-tier service hangups when shutting down or powering up. That's annoying and doesn't prevent any catastrophic data corruption or deletion. Just tell NetworkManager to shut the fuck up right away so my PC can take a break for the night. It shouldn't be that hard.

 

[cybertoaster]

My PopOS! install just shit the bed and refuses to update so I'm hopping again, is Zorin worth it? or I better go back to Mint?

 

[Betonhaus]

My PopOS! install just shit the bed and refuses to update so I'm hopping again, is Zorin worth it? or I better go back to Mint?

I believe both of them have gotten their update mechanisms working so you can upgrade point releases without reinstalling. Zorin is prettier but might be a little more restrictive in my experience. But the restrictions are very few tbh

 

[GNU Abyss]

For a pro-systemd view, this posting by an Arch developer (from 2012 when Arch adopted it) is fairly detailed:
https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?pid=1149530#p1149530

While this is good information, it's really strange how every time people only compare it to SysVinit. Literally, every time I've seen detailed pro-systemd posts. The only init author that gives a fair overview is the s6 guy.

Side note, he's also the developer of execline and mdevd. Interesting stuff.

 

[Lone Wandering Courier]

While this is good information, it's really strange how every time people only compare it to SysVinit. Literally, every time I've seen detailed pro-systemd posts.

Yeah it's always bothered me and just shows that these people are acting in bad faith.

 

[Itchy Hemorrhoids]

Total autism.

As long as alternatives are available, quit trying to convert me, whichever side you are on. If I listened to faggots on the Internet, every single install I have would be done the One True Way. Don't like systemd? Don't use it. Don't need it on this install? Don't use it. Do need it? Use it. Not anyone else's business. Also, don't tell me that it's taking over at the same time you're telling me there's a better alternative. It's Linux, just use the better alternative then. Sounds like what you want is everyone else to use, support, and develop what you want for free because you want it.

Same with Rust or Wayland or any of these other competing subsystems. Just do what you want and what works for you stop blogposting about why I should cut my dick off like you did.

 

[innocent jogger]

Total autism.

As long as alternatives are available, quit trying to convert me, whichever side you are on. If I listened to faggots on the Internet, every single install I have would be done the One True Way. Don't like systemd? Don't use it. Don't need it on this install? Don't use it. Do need it? Use it. Not anyone else's business. Also, don't tell me that it's taking over at the same time you're telling me there's a better alternative. It's Linux, just use the better alternative then. Sounds like what you want is everyone else to use, support, and develop what you want for free because you want it.

Same with Rust or Wayland or any of these other competing subsystems. Just do what you want and what works for you stop blogposting about why I should cut my dick off like you did.

lol Calm down. But yeah, I agree with you. It's free (no cost) and also free as in you can get the source and rewrite if you feel it left sand in your vagina. Don't know how to program a computer? Then learn.

 

[teriyakiburns]

Don't like systemd? Don't use it.

It is not remotely that simple. If systemd were just an init (as in all it did was start and manage daemons in a reliable and clean way, like every other init), I'd agree with you 100%, but as I and others have pointed out before, it isn't just an init. It has sucked in and absorbed so many previously independent system components that it is extremely difficult to just use another init, especially now that so many projects have semi-hard dependencies on the damn thing. The long-term ambition of the systemd project is to become the system daemon, controlling the entire userspace, akin to the windows service control manager.

Sounds like what you want is everyone else to use, support, and develop what you want for free because you want it.

No, what I want is to be able to use the init I choose without having to scrounge around for forks and shims to deal with all the dependencies systemd has inserted into other projects. Nothing should have a dependency on the init.

Meanwhile, what you want to do is stick your fingers in your ears and pretend that poettering's code vomit hasn't turned the whole nlinux ecosystem into a cancerous mess, with red hat's ambition for total control at the centre of everything.

 

[Itchy Hemorrhoids]

No, what I want is to be able to use the init I choose without having to scrounge around for forks and shims to deal with all the dependencies systemd has inserted into other projects. Nothing should have a dependency on the init.

Meanwhile, what you want to do is stick your fingers in your ears and pretend that poettering's code vomit hasn't turned the whole nlinux ecosystem into a cancerous mess, with red hat's ambition for total control at the centre of everything.

>REEEEEEE
Exactly what I said. You want it to be easy and want everyone else to do what you want. In Gentoo, it's just an eselect command, but I guess it has to be available everywhere to everyone in every distro. Is that too hard for you?

Of course corpos have ruined Linux, duh. What else is new? Do you really think removing systemd will change that? No. If you want to complain about that, I will agree with you, but, again I don't care about your opinion about what tools I use.

Keep fighting the revolution, comrade.

 

[Rusty Metal Skull Gun]

In Gentoo, it's just an eselect command, but I guess it has to be available everywhere to everyone in every distro. Is that too hard for you?

This is definitely not the case. From https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Systemd:

> Switching init systems is a non trivial operation that has implications for how the system is configured, and sometimes for what software can be installed or not.
(6,000 words follow.)

 

[AnOminous]

In Gentoo, it's just an eselect command, but I guess it has to be available everywhere to everyone in every distro. Is that too hard for you?

This is mega-dumb. There's a huge difference between apathetically not supporting something and maliciously sabotaging every alternative.

 

[ZMOT]

Total autism.

you gonna suck the poettercock, whether you like it or not.

 

[Betonhaus]

If it wasn't for there already being a Linux Amateur Hour thread I would suggest that mods split off the systemd argument to a new thread

 

[ZMOT]

If it wasn't for there already being a Linux Amateur Hour thread I would suggest that mods split off the systemd argument to a new thread

you gonna suck the poettercock, whether you like it or not.

systemdee is in most of distributions these days, so it will inevitably come up in linux discussions when another features improves/shits up linux at large in the future.

 

[Standardized Profile]

The long-term ambition of the systemd project is to become the system daemon, controlling the entire userspace, akin to the windows service control manager.

It could be worse. IBM/RedHat could configure Fedora to phone home by default like Windows 11 and--knowing this would be unpopular and no one would willingly participate--hide the opt-out toggle in an obscure Gnome setting.

Oh.

Spoiler

As explained in the proposal document, we know that opt-in metrics are not very useful because few users would opt in, and these users would not be representative of Fedora users as a whole. We are not interested in opt-in metrics.

 

[Betonhaus]

you gonna suck the poettercock, whether you like it or not.

systemdee is in most of distributions these days, so it will inevitably come up in linux discussions when another features improves/shits up linux at large in the future.

If you're not considering Preempt-RT for your system manager then you're only looking for faster speeds for the memes.