The Linux Thread - The Autist's OS of Choice

  • Want to keep track of this thread?
    Accounts can bookmark posts, watch threads for updates, and jump back to where you stopped reading.
    Create account
Susanna said:
That's never happened to me, and I've been on systemd for ages. Don't blame systemd for whatever misconfiguration you've made, it works just fine and for 99% of people is what they should be using.
Click to expand...
Vanilla Mint with zero changes if I remember right. It's been at least 8 years, if not more. If I'm going to dig into why networkd is alogging me every time I shut down my computer, I might as well futureproof my setup by using things that won't do this 100% of the time regardless of any updates or unprompted config changes. Poetterware for work, nice sturdy things for home use.
 
Ferryman said:
Systemd is a humiliation ritual thrust upon all Linux users by the evil corporate niggerboy Lennart Poettering. It works well (if you don't work with networks), most distros use it, and a lot of manuals you will find online assume Systemd. Mint is great if you want a good first step into Linux, though for gaming specifically you might want to look into something like Nobara that caters specifically to that use case.
Click to expand...
why wouldn't it work well with networks? If you don't like the tooling the provide for it. Like systemd-resolved, you can just disable it, and use unbound, or named. Same for ever other part of the networking stack, ntp. All of it. You can use anything you would be able to use on any other init system. As far as networking goes. Or service management in general. It's basically just another init. You can enable the ones you like. And that should be it.

Where I think systemd starts really being different than other init/service managers is all the infrastructure they've built around session management, and dbus. It's basically made everything else adopt elogind, and have the xdg_runtime_dir, and seat management, but without the service management stuff tide together. Or more recently we have turnstile. But either way you are having to replicate what systemd is doing now, without having the stuff all tied together well.

I think turnstile could potentially improve the things in the future for non-systemd distros. Since the way I see it you are going to need to manage this stuff anyway, so having an option that allows for a more complete user/session set up, and isn't just something ripped out of systemd, is the better way. Also it's a smaller tool, that allows other things to do other jobs, like seatd for the seat management, and acpid for the power management.
 
Last edited:
Beanie said:
Bazzite's July 2025 update (archived) replaced KDE Discover with Bazaar (archived), a GNOME/GTK4 Flatpak app store that had its first pre-release two weeks ago.
To say the software is premature is an understatement
Click to expand...
It appears to still be borked months later. I've been messing around with Bazzite and installed it on a couple of systems (one AMD one intel/Nvidia).

Both had the exact same issue - it's impossible to update or install anything from the Bazaar out of the box, it just crashes. You need to do a system update through the terminal and then everything starts working.

Not a massive issue but not great either for an OS that is supposed to cater to newbies and gaymers. The app store not working after install is pretty bad.
 
How fast are Wi-Fi drivers developed for Linux, specifically Debian? I've been waiting on a driver for my network card (Mediatek MT7920) for about a month now, but no dice. The only drivers I can find are for 7922 and up or for older network cards. Nothing shows up in update manager on Mint for me, I've downloaded every single last update through Ethernet (Which is rather inconvenient as this isn't a desktop) but still no dice.
 
Sooty Soot said:
How fast are Wi-Fi drivers developed for Linux, specifically Debian? I've been waiting on a driver for my network card (Mediatek MT7920) for about a month now, but no dice. The only drivers I can find are for 7922 and up or for older network cards. Nothing shows up in update manager on Mint for me, I've downloaded every single last update through Ethernet (Which is rather inconvenient as this isn't a desktop) but still no dice.
Click to expand...
MediaTek is shit, no distro has a driver for that and I think the windows one barely functions. There's a chance that your Wi-Fi card is a little module you can swap out with a proper one, it that depends on how difficult it is to open your laptop. Get a mini usb wifi card for now.
 
The ATF Disliked That said:
So I'm seeing a lot of systemd hatred here and, since I'm still in the novice phase of Linux, why is this the case?

I plan on switching to Linux since I don't want Windows 11, (and even if I did I cannot because apparently I don't meet requirements) so I'm just trying to learn what the issues that you all are experiencing.

I was planning on just installing Linux Mint for my main PC since that's just the overall beginner distro, but it uses systemd, so I'm not sure if I should look for an alternative for my case. Primary use of my main PC is video games.
Click to expand...
I use cachy os and that uses system d. Before that I used linux mint and before that was endeavour os. The only issue I had with system d was specifically system d boot. Mainly because trying to append parameters to the bootloader was a bitch to figure out. No much the case with grub. Other than that I've not had system-d cause my pc to just randomly shut down out of nowhere like other's have saying. You will most likely be fine using a distro with system d. Though I will say opt for GRUB as your boat loader, do not use system-d boot. It's a pain in ass and confusing as fuck for whatever reason.
 
prollyanotherlurker said:
why wouldn't it work well with networks? If you don't like the tooling the provide for it. Like systemd-resolved, you can just disable it, and use unbound, or named. Same for ever other part of the networking stack, ntp. All of it. You can use anything you would be able to use on any other init system. As far as networking goes. Or service management in general. It's basically just another init. You can enable the ones you like. And that should be it.
Click to expand...
Yes, I'm just talking about the OOTB features it uses since the guy that post was in reply to is a beginner looking for a beginner friendly distro, and I believe that systemd-networkd/resolved are so bad its criminal, much less beginner friendly. I have never gotten so much cancer with DNS hijacking. If I never hear the words "Host not found" again it would be too soon.

We can argue morning, noon and night about the implementation or feature creep of systemd, but for this specific topic, networking is the biggest issue I have with it. For everything else, I really admire antix's way of dealing with elogind/dbus et al.; with custom, small scripts that handle everything individually, without needing to tie everything into this big unweildy brick. Big ++++ for turnstile, keeping a close eye on its development myself.
 
My biggest problem with systemd is that the one thing it says it does "Faster startup and shutdown" doesn't actually work.
Even when things are perfect you'll get random hangs, especially on shutdown. It's even worse if something is wrong like the NFS server is crashed and it will take many minutes to reboot/shutdown. Old init systems did this well. kill -HUP, kill -KILL, reboot() and fuck the hung processes.
 
DavidS877 said:
My biggest problem with systemd is that the one thing it says it does "Faster startup and shutdown" doesn't actually work.
Even when things are perfect you'll get random hangs, especially on shutdown. It's even worse if something is wrong like the NFS server is crashed and it will take many minutes to reboot/shutdown. Old init systems did this well. kill -HUP, kill -KILL, reboot() and fuck the hung processes.
Click to expand...

Iirc the only real "problem" SystemD sold itself on "solving" was parallelization of service startups, even then heaping complexity on top of another complexity only asks for trouble (e.g: STOP Jobs) when trying to start up tasks in parallel. Even with OpenRC giving you the option to start services in parallel, it isn't recommended for production. SystemD insisting on running in parallel 100% of the time is a resource nightmare waiting to happen.
 
Last edited:
I'm not sure what was so controversial about that one post. I did send it right before going to sleep, and I was starting to nod off during the second paragraph so I got it close enough and sent it. Then edited it today to clarify what I was trying to say. But my point is.

1 you can just use the same tools you use on any other unit for networking.

2 the main place I see it as actually different, and the way it effects other init systems today, is everything that has been built around logins. I was going to say something about systemd-boot with it. But that's fairly easy to completely cut out. And doesn't effect much if you don't implement it's way of doing things for that at least.

DavidS877 said:
My biggest problem with systemd is that the one thing it says it does "Faster startup and shutdown" doesn't actually work.
Even when things are perfect you'll get random hangs, especially on shutdown. It's even worse if something is wrong like the NFS server is crashed and it will take many minutes to reboot/shutdown. Old init systems did this well. kill -HUP, kill -KILL, reboot() and fuck the hung processes.
Click to expand...
You can tell it to not wait for the process if it doesn't stop right away. And to send it a sigkill either right away, or with a shorter period than 90 seconds.

Because that's what it's doing when you are waiting. It sent a sigterm, that didn't stop the process, so it waits 90 seconds to send a sigkill. I want to say you can adjust the behavior in system.conf (you can for sure adjust it, I just can't remember if that is the file or it's another).

Ferryman said:
Yes, I'm just talking about the OOTB features it uses since the guy that post was in reply to is a beginner looking for a beginner friendly distro, and I believe that systemd-networkd/resolved are so bad its criminal, much less beginner friendly. I have never gotten so much cancer with DNS hijacking. If I never hear the words "Host not found" again it would be too soon.
Click to expand...
I don't think I've ever had much of an issue with that. But most of my experience with systems is on arch. So even though there are the tools that come with systems.

Its completely up to you on how you are going to set up networking from the beginning.

I'm not sure if that's different in Debian based distros. I wouldn't be surprised if it is, because a big part of the reason I got so annoyed trying to move to those after using arch is because they do a bunch of configuration for me. And undoing all the bullshit they put there is way more work than just copying the files I have that set up things how I want.

So for networking. I would just install whatever solutions for it I wanted. Enable them. And that's about all I needed to do as far as the actual init system goes.

Really just using systemd-resolved, but just as a client for normal desktop dns stuff, it actually worked well for me. Though I did make sure to get it set up properly. The only time I ever had issues was with dnnsec if you run it with that on strictly because a lot of places won't have dnnsec set up so sites get blocked. But while I was using it. It was just as reliable for me as any of the standalone dns resolvers in that specific use case.

I actually wonder, if people that hate systemd the most are people that use Debian or Debian based distros that set up a lot more of it for you. Now that I think about it. I wouldn't be surprised if that does tend to be the case.
 
DavidS877 said:
My biggest problem with systemd is that the one thing it says it does "Faster startup and shutdown" doesn't actually work.
Even when things are perfect you'll get random hangs, especially on shutdown. It's even worse if something is wrong like the NFS server is crashed and it will take many minutes to reboot/shutdown. Old init systems did this well. kill -HUP, kill -KILL, reboot() and fuck the hung processes.
Click to expand...
The best part is that if you calculate the time it takes from powering the system on to hitting the login screen, be it Windows 10, 11, systemd, openrc, whatever, chances are the longest part of the entire process will be waiting on your UEFI to finish initializing. And even then we're talking like, what, 10-15 seconds on an SSD to start up a working desktop? Try digging out an old hard drive sometime and remind yourself how bad it used to be, we're in the golden age of boot times in comparison. Case in point: my ThinkPad. Takes it longer to get through the UEFI than W11's boot sequence. Even if I were to go out of my way to set up the fastest booting distro I could muster I would still be hanging on the pre-boot process.
 
I took the Linux pill. I haven't messed around with it since ricing out my old POS laptop years ago. So far it's working great, only real annoyance is the ugly, shit font rendering, and my multi monitor setup doesn't work. If I enable my second monitor, it becomes the primary monitor no matter what, and it thinks the second monitor is on the right no matter what.
 
Slav Power said:
The best part is that if you calculate the time it takes from powering the system on to hitting the login screen
Click to expand...
My old laptop takes about 10minutes to get to Win 10 login, then another 10 to login and get a browser open. It really doesn’t like Windows 10.

After that, anything else seems like lightning fast.
Weirdly though, it’s happy with Wayland sessions.
 
prollyanotherlurker said:
You can tell it to not wait for the process if it doesn't stop right away. And to send it a sigkill either right away, or with a shorter period than 90 seconds.
Click to expand...
Just to add some information here: Mint shortens it to 10 seconds by default, sparing new users from the confusion of the long shutdowns. (The change is in /etc/systemd/system.conf.d/50_linuxmint.conf which is part of Mint's ubuntu-system-adjustments package. Not sure which version specifically started doing this.)
 
Jesus Swept said:
I took the Linux pill. I haven't messed around with it since ricing out my old POS laptop years ago. So far it's working great, only real annoyance is the ugly, shit font rendering, and my multi monitor setup doesn't work. If I enable my second monitor, it becomes the primary monitor no matter what, and it thinks the second monitor is on the right no matter what.
Click to expand...
If your second monitor is placed on the left and you are using Wayland that is the reason. The monitor on the furthest left is treated as the primary monitor. But if it's always placed on the right in the settings even if you try to change that then it is probably a bug.
 
Akerman said:
If your second monitor is placed on the left and you are using Wayland that is the reason. The monitor on the furthest left is treated as the primary monitor. But if it's always placed on the right in the settings even if you try to change that then it is probably a bug.
Click to expand...
I forgot for a while why I went back from Wayland to X11 then remembered it was due to shit like this.
Did no one working on Wayland for the last 20 years ever consider that choosing a primary monitor may be a thing you would like to do when managing displays?
 
prollyanotherlurker said:
You could say that about any wayland and xorg or systemd discussion here really. Most of it is going back through the same few things.

Meanwhile everyone let's the objective evil of pulse audio exist without batting an eye.
Click to expand...
Pulseaudio is absolutely one of Poettering's most vile abominations. I'll say one thing though, avoiding it did lead to me learning how to script ALSA helpers in Scheme, so I consider that a +1 for Pulseaudio.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom