Law The movement to 'Abolish ICE' is heating up -- and going mainstream - I can't believe you niggers haven't started this thread

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/30/politics/abolish-ice-movement-gaining-support-democrats/index.html
Calls to eliminate the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency, for years relegated to the far-left corners of progressive activism, have been thrust this week into the mainstream of Democratic politics.

Cracks in the dam became visible 10 days ago, when a group of demonstrators confronted Homeland Security Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen at a Mexican restaurant in Washington. They called for an end to the Trump administration policy that resulted in separating migrant families at the border and, as the viral protest heated up, began to chant: "Abolish ICE!"

Less than two weeks on, the demand -- a favored meme on the left -- has gone from a progressive fringe cause, mostly ignored even by some of the most liberal lawmakers, to a political message being embraced by a growing roster of influential national Democrats.

Fueling its sudden ascent have been a series of recent shocks to the system. On Tuesday, US House candidate Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez delivered a stunning Democratic primary upset in New York after campaigning on abolishing the agency, which was formed in 2003 as part of a post-9/11 federal overhaul that created the Department of Homeland Security.

Two days after Ocasio-Cortez's primary, New York's Kirsten Gillibrand became the first senator and potential 2020 candidate to announce her support for the agency's elimination. Less than 12 hours later, on Friday morning, New York Mayor Bill de Blasio joined the chorus, telling WNYC's Brian Lehrer, "ICE's time has come and gone."

"I don't think ICE today is working as intended," Gillibrand said Thursday night on CNN's "Cuomo PrimeTime." "I believe that it has become a deportation force, and I think you should separate the criminal justice from the immigration issues."

In a Facebook post on Saturday, Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren wrote, "The President's deeply immoral actions have made it obvious that we need to rebuild our immigration system from top to bottom, starting by replacing ICE with something that reflects our values," a line that mirrored her statements in a speech at a protest in Boston.

The rapid escalation was years in the making.

Progressive immigration rights activists -- during both Republican and Democratic administrations -- have come to view ICE as a rogue agency that terrorized immigrant communities. Calls for its dissolution, once rare, are spreading.

A group of 19 agents with its Homeland Security Investigations unit, which deals with complex investigations including transnational crime, recently wrote a letter to Nielsen asking her to break up the agency amid what they described as a debilitating conflation of their work with ICE's deportation activities. Concerns over the public backlash to actions by the Enforcement and Removal Operations division were, they wrote, making HSI's work impossible.

In their message -- first reported by The Texas Observer -- the agents reported that some jurisdictions had agreed only to "partner with HSI as long the 'ICE' name is excluded from any public-facing information."

On Capitol Hill, Rep. Mark Pocan of Wisconsin is now working with fellow Democratic Reps. Pramila Jayapal of Washington state and Adriano Espaillat of New York on legislation to eliminate the agency.

In an interview, Pocan said a recent series of aggressive actions by ICE had led him to conclude that it was effectively serving as President Donald Trump's "own political police force" -- a tool for creating a sense of crisis to help build support for a border wall and other hardline immigration policies.

For Pocan, Trump's call on Sunday to return immigrants who enter the country illegally without judicial proceedings was the last straw.

"The culmination of all those things, going to the border and then when the President started talking about getting rid of due process, was it," he said. "You're just kind of like, all right, this has gone way astray, and we need to start over."

But there is dissent now in the Democratic ranks.

Leading progressives, like Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders and -- until Saturday -- Warren, have stopped short of calling for ICE to be terminated outright and the Congressional Hispanic Caucus has circulated talking points advising caution -- arguing in a memo obtained by CNN that "abolishing ICE without changing President Trump's disastrous immigration policy will not solve the problem." They're not alone. Some progressives on the Hill worry that wielding the "Abolish ICE" banner would be a political gift to Trump and his allies, and that Democrats should consider a more nuanced approach.

Republicans are casting progressive calls to abolish the agency and the recent momentum in the Democratic Party as a move to the far left, evidence that Democrats are weak on border security and immigration enforcement.

"Recent calls to abolish ICE are dangerously misguided," agency spokeswoman Jennifer D. Elzea said in an email. "Instead of being insulted with politically-motivated attacks, the men and women of ICE should be praised for risking life and limb every day in the name of national security and public safety."

The President in a pair of tweets Saturday that abolishing ICE would "never happen,"adding that its employees are "one of the smartest, toughest and most spirited law enforcement groups of men and women that I have ever seen."

Activists and progressive leaders are pressing on, becoming more aggressive in their push to abolish the agency, an effort many in the movement view as both a way to open up the debate over decades of bipartisan US immigration policy and, crucially, win elections.

"The Democratic Party had a reckoning about the crime bill, financial deregulation and about welfare reform, but it never really had a reckoning about their complicity in creating both the intellectual framework for this sort of policy," said Sean McElwee, a leading activist in the anti-ICE movementand early supporter of Ocasio-Cortez's campaign. He cited the 28-year-old Democratic socialist's unapologetic embrace of the issue as a key factor in her Tuesday triumph.

"She had an actual campaign strategy that revolved around ICE, and it was very smart, because (incumbent Rep. Joe) Crowley was weak on immigration and she knew that he would never be able to get where he needed to be to win that primary," McElwee said. "So she just hammered him on it. She didn't shy away from saying it. She put it in her ads. She ran on the issue. She challenged him in the debate. I think 'Abolish ICE' is where it is today because of her leadership."

Efforts to further escalate the fight beyond the electoral realm are already in motion. The Democratic Socialists of America, which reported its largest spike in new, dues-paying members since Trump's election on the day after Ocasio-Cortez's win, are planning a national campaign to ramp up the pressure.

Maria Svart, the group's national director, said the organization is ready to "apply pressure wherever possible to lift up the narrative that ICE is horrific, has no place in our communities and needs to be abolished."

"That looks different in different places," she said. "We have chapters in every state in the country, and folks are doing everything from vigils to encampment to bird-dogging to really raise this issue in the public eye and say, 'We do not submit to this.' "

Protests have already begun to grow in size and frequency. By Friday afternoon, police in Philadelphia had made six arrests outside the city's ICE office amid a heated demonstration, as crowds chanted, "I'd rather go to jail than go to a detention center."

Philadelphia City Council member Helen Gym recorded and tweeted out video of the scenes.

Activists are also seeking to expand the moral dimension of the fight. Hartford City Councilwoman Wildaliz Bermudez, of the Working Families Party, said the visceral nature of reporting from the border during the height of the family separation crisis pushed the movement toward a tipping point.

She likened the situation to what followed the white supremacist rallies last summer in Charlottesville, Virginia.

"It has to be a unified front (in response to ICE)," Bermudez said, "because like when you have people chanting on the street, 'You will not replace us,' they're not just talking about Jews. They're talking about everyone."

Now let me explain the funny to you faggots. ICE has no control over the border. ICE rounds up illegals already in the country. Here you have a bunch of uninformed tards screeching to abolish ICE because they lock up families on the border
 
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It's funny how you seldom hear this from anyone with D next to their name who is an elected official in the states of Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, and the southern rural bits of California.

They get a bunch of New England democrats on TV to say how horrible we are treating illegals, but won't get a democrat state rep in Texas on TV to talk about it.

I remember when Humberto Garcia was executed. Most the news outlets who even reported it spent much of the article/broadcast talking about how pissed off Mexico was and how shitty the US is for allowing him to be executed. A lot of article titles were "Mexican national shouts 'viva mexico' prior to execution" or something similar.

Then there would be a short paragraph that stated he raped a 16 year old girl before bashing her to an almost unidentifiable pulp with a chunk of concrete. They glazed over that part. But that's not nearly as important as how angry Mexico is and if we don't suck up to the Mexicans then they'll launch another reconquista or someshit.
 
This is the most hilarious thing ever. The Dems didn't want to abolish ICE, until that spic socialist beat the ever living fuck out of their own candidate because he didn't campaign and do shit and was completely sure of a win, just like Hilary. Also her district shifted from mostly Irish to mostly Hispanic and he did nothing to show he cared about them except thinking he always won and would still win, and the socialist thoughts were dead. Nope. She ran on abolishing ICE in a mostly Now the Dems think, 'OH SHIT EVERY AMERICAN EVER WANTS ICE GONE' and now they fully back it.

So lets review:
  • Her district is now mostly Hispanic, previously Irish
  • The DNC shill did nothing to court the Hispanic vote
  • Hispanics had no clue who the DNC shill was, so they didn't vote for him
  • She's really hot and 90% of politics is about optics and it looks bad when you don't do shit
  • New York is already a liberal state and only applies to New York
This, in the DNC's mind leads to Americans wanting to abolish ICE. They are running around like chickens with their heads cut off, they have absolutely no idea what is happening to them. They're bleeding white voters like crazy, the majority in the country. Not only that, they're bleeding young voters, their base. Generation Z is turning out to be MORE conservative. Minorities don't vote nearly as much as whites, so they can't be replaced as easily. People like me, who used to vote Democrat, have abandoned them for third parties because we don't like either candidate. Their base now is minorities, ultra libtards (if they actually do vote) and middle aged white people, soyboys and shit. They also listen to celebrities who have nothing in connection with normal people.

Their younger base also doesn't vote as nearly as much as they need to, especially local elections where they are getting fucking destroyed.


The DNC is amazingly incompetent.
 
Obama sure seemed pretty generous with that ICE budget.
Because it was a way of him appeasing the GOP members. Give a shit ton if cash to a program/branch that is nominally connected to stopping illegal immigration and then kneecap other, more involved programs in quiet ways. That way he gets the Conservatives happy (funding ICE, yay!) And the Dems/socialists happy(cutting back on other programs and loosening of laws on illegal aliens).
 
Obama sure seemed pretty generous with that ICE budget.
I’ve seen “journalists” claim this is Trump’s ICE regardless that Obama used ICE to deport assholes all the time.

Then they also like to claim ICE previously focused on illegal aliens who committed crimes forgetting that overstaying your visa or sneaking into the US are fucking crimes too. Liberals in media are lying incessantly and obfuscating the truth. It’s red pilling loads of fucking people and having the opposite intended affect.
 
I do not say this to obfuscate this shameful display by these Democrats, but for our Republican/Libertarian brothers and sisters, this is exactly how you sound when you start talking about abolishing public schools.
Difference is that public schools aren't keeping potentially dangerous people out of our country. It's being a giant daycare for dumb ass kids. You know education isn't technically a human right. Actively denying access to it is a violation of it but no one owes you an education. Public education is a relatively recent thing in human history.

So basically I think public schools are a joke but I don't think we need to get rid of them outright. Just allow the better, gifted children a better school and let the lazy and stupid be kept there to learn some basic stuff. Why waste our pearls on swine when we can get the smart ones to a better, concentrated effort?
 
Difference is that public schools aren't keeping potentially dangerous people out of our country. It's being a giant daycare for dumb ass kids. You know education isn't technically a human right. Actively denying access to it is a violation of it but no one owes you an education. Public education is a relatively recent thing in human history.

So basically I think public schools are a joke but I don't think we need to get rid of them outright. Just allow the better, gifted children a better school and let the lazy and stupid be kept there to learn some basic stuff. Why waste our pearls on swine when we can get the smart ones to a better, concentrated effort?
You have illustrated my point most succinctly.

Autism is a truly bipartisan affliction.
 
You have illustrated my point most succinctly.

Autism is a truly bipartisan affliction.
Funny but the Germans do something similar by letting kids pick a vocation upon entering high school. I could be wrong but I read somewhere that's where they do it.

You're the one being autistic here. I didn't say abolish schools. I said let them be used to house the dumb and uninitiated students. The smart ones should be given better stuff because they are the ones we need to keep things going such as inventing cures, space travel, fuel independence, etc.

Hell I learned very little from school after I learned to read. I took the more autodidact approach and read for fun. Public schools are a joke in this country.

However, since you seem to think that means I want to abolish them like the Dems want to get rid of ICE, I'll make sure to buy one of those puzze piece stickers for your autistic ass.
 
It's funny how you seldom hear this from anyone with D next to their name who is an elected official in the states of Arizona, New Mexico, Texas, and the southern rural bits of California.
There was an abolish ICE Democrat running for congress here in Texas. He was just creamed by a Republican in a special election. That shit doesn't fly in border states.

They get a bunch of New England democrats on TV to say how horrible we are treating illegals, but won't get a democrat state rep in Texas on TV to talk about it.
New England liberals piss me off to no avail. I even couldn't stand them when I was Democrat myself because I grew up rural, southern, and lower-middle class and they do nothing but talk down to us. The way they treated Trump supporters in 2016 exposed in a harsh light how they really view middle working America. Apparently it's rayciss for the working-class voter care more about their own job prospects and prosperity than those of illegal immigrants.
 
Honestly just abolish ICE and bring back the INS. Having a department for screening people when they enter the country (CBP), a department that determines what benefits you get and handles your visas (USCIS) and a department to handle immigrants already in the US just seems like an absolute bureaucratic nightmare and I have no idea why the INS was split up in the first place.

Nah its good to have deportation as out of the hands of the DOJ and Juciciary as possible right now. The DOJ and Judiciary are clusterfucks that have been fully infiltrated by a Praetorian Guard and or 5th column, and Homeland Security is a good fit for removing dangerous elements. Ideally you also move deportation of non-citizens (or at least illegal aliens) out of the hands of the Judiciary and directly to an administrative trial under the auspices of the Department of Homeland Security rather than an actual trial because non-citizens are not entitled to the rights afforded by the constitution to citizens. I think it is a move Trump may be able to swing if his next SCOTUS pick is good and he wins again in 2020. I would be surprised if Miller wasn't pushing for this or a position to achieve it.
 
because non-citizens are not entitled to the rights afforded by the constitution to citizens
the Bill of Rights has long been held to selectively apply to noncitizens in most capacities. if anything, it's that citizens have particular rights in addition to those recognized as intrinsic to all people.

and to head off a rebuttal that's commonly used: pretty much all phrasing in the Constitution is done in a way that restricts the powers of government or grants power to the government particularly, rather than directly granting any rights to a class of people or holding that rights not mentioned don't exist.
 
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the Bill of Rights has long been held to selectively apply to noncitizens in most capacities. if anything, it's that citizens have particular rights in addition to those recognized in intrinsic to all people.

and to head off a rebuttal that's commonly used: pretty much all phrasing in the Constitution is done in a way that restricts the powers of government or grants power to the government particularly, rather than directly granting any rights to a class of people or holding that rights not mentioned don't exist.

Which is why the SCOTUS stacking currently going on is important. Rulings by the supreme court can be overturned. With Gorsuch, Thomas, and a similarly minded justice, that is a possibility. Illegal aliens going for deportation could definitely become one of the selective cases where it doesn't apply. People used to be turned away without judiciary involvement all the time in the past.
 
From my acquaintances in the local sheriff prison, they are receiving more and more illegals there in the past few weeks because the local immigration centers don't have the capacity to hold all the new detainees, those with prior charges get processed as before, but those without any criminal records and tossed back to mexico ASAP.

Living on the border allows me to see news from the other side and boy do they have their head up their ass, crying over the child shelters as brutal because they are tents and going on about the upcoming summer heat, the flyover show the tents and you can clearly see large units attached to them so its not like they are going to be ovens.

My biggest gripe is one comment I heard last tile (Translated) "Undocumented migrants are being treated like criminals! *outrage*" No shit, you commit a crime, you are a criminal, and no matter what other names you decide to call them a spade is a spade.
 
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Fake, but convincing.
 
I have this conversation with people all the time. My position is always "Every other country in the world has immigration laws. There must be a reason for that, right? Even the progressive havens have them"
The answer is usually "Well we're supposed to be better! Anyway all our ancestors were immigrants!"
Usually at this point I try to explain how "Legal Immigration" and "Illegal Immigration" are two different things, and it's not really unreasonable to want to control who you let into your country, but it's hard to continue the conversation at this point with all the smoke and loud whistling coming from their ears.
 
I have this conversation with people all the time. My position is always "Every other country in the world has immigration laws. There must be a reason for that, right? Even the progressive havens have them"
The answer is usually "Well we're supposed to be better! Anyway all our ancestors were immigrants!"
Usually at this point I try to explain how "Legal Immigration" and "Illegal Immigration" are two different things, and it's not really unreasonable to want to control who you let into your country, but it's hard to continue the conversation at this point with all the smoke and loud whistling coming from their ears.

Here's a neat trick, next time they pull that "all our ancestors were immigrants" bullshit, ask them how the Native Americans feel about unfettered immigration.
 
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