Shining Wit
kiwifarms.net
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The Shin Megami Tensei/Persona Thread
- Thread starter Overcast
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🐕 Maintenace complete. Database is on a new RAID. Everything should load faster. Will optimize more over time.
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- May 12, 2017
I have in Nocturne and SMT4: Apocalypse with little difficulty because STR is a functional skill in both of those games. STR is fucking useless in vanilla SMT4. You'd literally get more mileage by speccing entirely into Agility and Luck while ignoring all your other offensive stats than even considering investing into STR.
Shining Wit
kiwifarms.net
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- Jan 5, 2021
That's what I mean, go full challenge run
Granted, even then its not too bad as you said, your demons can farm press turns. You'd pretty much turn Flynn into an itembot as your MP pool would be too miserable to be a buffer
- Joined
- May 12, 2017
Okay, idea for a challenge run that Ymfah himself would never tackle: No deaths, no save/reloads to avoid enemy encounters, STR only, must use Phys-oriented demons.
In all seriousness, my first experience with SMT4 had me go full-strength like in Nocturne until I went up against Minotaur. That was basically when I realised that Minotaur was curb-stomping me because I pumped like 50 points into STR when DEX was the stat I needed.
Ever since then, no STR for me. Not in SMT4 vanilla, anyway.
wtfNeedSignUp
kiwifarms.net
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- Dec 17, 2019
Str always felt pointless go me. You are limited to a single damage type as opposed to all the elements and it also removes the advantage system besides the 1 in 100 enemy that is weak to physcial.
Shining Wit
kiwifarms.net
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- Jan 5, 2021
It's more of a 'hit it with a hammer' system. You replace weaknesses for critical hits, which do the same thing effectively and on the whole, you can do more damage for longer. So if you pair that up with demons who can buff and farm pressturns, you can wreak havok with phys
- Joined
- May 12, 2017
Eh... in my experience, you only really get the critical hits if you invest heavily into Luck alongside the usual points into Agility and Dexterity (or Strength in SMT4A). My current spread in my vanilla SMT4 Dex build goes "3 Dex-1 Agility-1 Luck," but at Level 99 with 107 base Luck, that only really amounts to a 25% chance to crit on any given time. You'd need to invest into a "2 Dex-1 Agl-2 Luck" spread if you want to have at least a 50% chance of landing a crit at any given time at Level 99 (assuming that GameFAQs is right about this one). That's a steep investment of points that I'm generally not comfortable with.
If you're looking to fish for crits on a Phys/Gun build, you'd be better off using a high power/high crit/low accuracy move like Oni-Kagura or Mortal Jihad while you have 3 stacks of Sukukaja up on the field.
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2020
There is a Magatsuhi gauge which seems to unlock special power skills and enemies also have a gauge.
This game looks beautiful
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- May 25, 2021
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- Nov 4, 2020
I was at work thinking about the ending of Persona 2 Eternal Punishment in which The "Other World" Tatsuya has to go back to a Post Apocalyptic Japan in his timeline . Then it hit me, bro really went from a Persona game to a Shin Megami Tensei game lol
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2020
Youre going to get your ass handed to you because SMT 3 is an actually hard game
KEKMUHLORD
kiwifarms.net
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- Mar 18, 2021
Do not fuse or get rid of the Pixie that first joins you at the beginning of the game. You want to keep her until the end. Trust me.
Know you, your demons and enemies weaknesses like the back of your hand. It will make all the difference between an easy battle or a game over. Nocturne does not mess around most times. Enemies will take advantage.
Debuffs and buffs are incredibly important and can help immensely in battle. Especially in difficult boss battles. Use them.
Be careful with Magatama as they will change your weaknesses. So keep an eye on that.
If your character is a STR build. Try to have a magic demon and a healer demon.
Fuse and and improve your demons constantly. A balanced/up to date demon team can make all the difference.
You will hit a difficulty spike in the form of the boss Matador. Do not give up. He is a boss that specifically checks to make sure you are utilizing the game mechanics. Can be rough at first.
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- Joined
- Feb 3, 2021
Is it the type of game where any build is viable? I just got to the fountain with the fairy after beating the stingray demon, and a lot of the characters keep telling me to try to talk to demons, but I don't see the option pop up in any combat and the overworld demons just tell me lore.
Edit: Disregard the talking part, I found the option on the menu by pressing left.
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- Joined
- May 12, 2017
You're not entirely wrong in assuming that Persona and mainline SMT share similar combat systems, however the devil remains in the details.
Persona's combat system encourages rushdown tactics without any real need to buff or debuff mobs or bosses (hence "1 More" and "All Out Attack!"). Mainline SMT does not function like this at all, and if you assume that it does, you're gonna be in for an extremely rude awakening when you go up against Forneus inside Shinjuku Hospital and you're wondering why hitting it with Bufu won't make it collapse for an All-Out Attack.
There's a lot that I can genuinely say about Nocturne and first-time beginner's tips, but do bear in mind that I've only ever played the USA PS2 release. If there are any QOL patches in the HD remaster that I'm overlooking, then please let me know.
1) Demon negotiations in mainline SMT are nothing like they are in Persona 5 (or even P1/2IS/2EP for that matter). Basically, even if you threaten a demon within an inch of its life, it's almost entirely random as to whether or not they'll join. A general rule of thumb is to not be a total candyass and just give the demons everything they want during negotiations. Trust me when I say I've had demons steal my HP, drain my MP, steal my Macca, and take 5 Life Stones from me only to just yeet the fuck outta there. It's not fun. You gotta feel it out and find a system that works for you, but be advised that pulling your hair out is a very normal thing.
2) Every time you level up, you get exactly 1 point to invest into one of 5 stats: Strength, Magic, Vitality, Agility, and Luck. I'll spare you the thought process, and I'll just flat-out tell you the stats you should invest on and why. The general priority is Vitality -> Strength -> Agility -> A few safety levels in Magic to expand your MP pool. Do not touch Luck at all, or I will personally smack you upside the head for your stupidity.
3) Vitality is a veritable monkey-wrench of a stat because it boosts your maximum HP more than what you'd receive from a standard level-up. You're gonna be running into an assload of random encounters (which means an assload of back attacks). Keep in mind that Nocturne is a 17-year-old MegaTen game, which means that if Demi-Fiend dies, it's game over. You want this nigga to have a big ass health pool, especially if you're gonna be using Physical damage-dealing skills which drain small portions of your HP. The rule of thumb I use is that I sink my first 3 levels into Vitality, then I sink 1 point into Vit every 2 levels. As tempting as mono-Vit sounds, you need a damage-dealing stat to go with it.
4) This is where Strength comes into the picture. Strength is a fairly straightforward skill: you pump points into it, you punch that giant arrogant disco ball in the sky that little bit harder and your Physical skills will do that little bit of extra damage. Generally speaking, Nocturne is much friendlier to Physical builds than Magic builds despite Nocturne also being the first mainline MegaTen game that allows the protagonist to wield Magic directly. The reason why is that historically, MegaTen protagonists were literally incapable of using Magic so the entire game is still balanced around a predominantly Physical protagonist. This isn't even a rule of thumb. The overwhelming majority of your points should be going into Strength, with every second level going into Vitality and every third level going into Agility. That segues perfectly into the next skill.
5) Okay, so you have a large health pool and you hit like a truck now. Congratulations, now what? Your high damage output complemented by a beefy HP stat is utterly meaningless if none of your attacks successfully connect. This is where Agility comes into the picture. Agility affects three things: Demi-Fiend's likelihood of landing a hit, Demi-Fiend's likelihood of evading a hit, and Demi-Fiend's turn order during battle (i.e. higher AGL means that Demi-Fiend will start first more often). I'm not even gonna explain this any further; just sink every third level you have into Agility so that you won't lose press turns to missed attacks as often.
6) Magic is the black sheep of Nocturne because for all the good that Magic does, there's simply too much working against it for it to be a valuable playstyle. The biggest reason why Magic is suboptimal is because Demi-Fiend's MP pool is simply too small (even with the MP pool boost that Magic provides upon level-up) to effectively utilise powerful elemental attacks to exploit weaknesses. This wouldn't be a problem if MP restoratives like Bead Chains and Chakra Pots were more readily available, but they're either in sadly short supply in the overworld or horrendously expensive from in-game merchants. Generally speaking, Magic is something that's better left to your demons than directly utilised by the Demi-Fiend. With that in mind, maintaining a couple of "coverage" moves on Demi-Fiend is always a safe strategy to employ so you can invest a spare point into Magic every now and then when you really feel the need to make use of your MP.
2) Every time you level up, you get exactly 1 point to invest into one of 5 stats: Strength, Magic, Vitality, Agility, and Luck. I'll spare you the thought process, and I'll just flat-out tell you the stats you should invest on and why. The general priority is Vitality -> Strength -> Agility -> A few safety levels in Magic to expand your MP pool. Do not touch Luck at all, or I will personally smack you upside the head for your stupidity.
3) Vitality is a veritable monkey-wrench of a stat because it boosts your maximum HP more than what you'd receive from a standard level-up. You're gonna be running into an assload of random encounters (which means an assload of back attacks). Keep in mind that Nocturne is a 17-year-old MegaTen game, which means that if Demi-Fiend dies, it's game over. You want this nigga to have a big ass health pool, especially if you're gonna be using Physical damage-dealing skills which drain small portions of your HP. The rule of thumb I use is that I sink my first 3 levels into Vitality, then I sink 1 point into Vit every 2 levels. As tempting as mono-Vit sounds, you need a damage-dealing stat to go with it.
4) This is where Strength comes into the picture. Strength is a fairly straightforward skill: you pump points into it, you punch that giant arrogant disco ball in the sky that little bit harder and your Physical skills will do that little bit of extra damage. Generally speaking, Nocturne is much friendlier to Physical builds than Magic builds despite Nocturne also being the first mainline MegaTen game that allows the protagonist to wield Magic directly. The reason why is that historically, MegaTen protagonists were literally incapable of using Magic so the entire game is still balanced around a predominantly Physical protagonist. This isn't even a rule of thumb. The overwhelming majority of your points should be going into Strength, with every second level going into Vitality and every third level going into Agility. That segues perfectly into the next skill.
5) Okay, so you have a large health pool and you hit like a truck now. Congratulations, now what? Your high damage output complemented by a beefy HP stat is utterly meaningless if none of your attacks successfully connect. This is where Agility comes into the picture. Agility affects three things: Demi-Fiend's likelihood of landing a hit, Demi-Fiend's likelihood of evading a hit, and Demi-Fiend's turn order during battle (i.e. higher AGL means that Demi-Fiend will start first more often). I'm not even gonna explain this any further; just sink every third level you have into Agility so that you won't lose press turns to missed attacks as often.
6) Magic is the black sheep of Nocturne because for all the good that Magic does, there's simply too much working against it for it to be a valuable playstyle. The biggest reason why Magic is suboptimal is because Demi-Fiend's MP pool is simply too small (even with the MP pool boost that Magic provides upon level-up) to effectively utilise powerful elemental attacks to exploit weaknesses. This wouldn't be a problem if MP restoratives like Bead Chains and Chakra Pots were more readily available, but they're either in sadly short supply in the overworld or horrendously expensive from in-game merchants. Generally speaking, Magic is something that's better left to your demons than directly utilised by the Demi-Fiend. With that in mind, maintaining a couple of "coverage" moves on Demi-Fiend is always a safe strategy to employ so you can invest a spare point into Magic every now and then when you really feel the need to make use of your MP.
KEKMUHLORD
kiwifarms.net
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2021
Any build is viable. Usually strength builds is what most people go with. Due to just how powerful they are in the end game of Nocturne. I would just be sure to pick magic or strength early on. As that usually determines what magatama you pick for skills to learn.
You should see a talk command in battle you can use. It might be at the bottom of your initial battle commands. Make sure the demon you wanna talk to is alone or else the other demons might interfere and you will lose your turn and be attacked.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2021
I put a lot into vitality and strength because I didn't get any ability to cast magic until after I stomped Forneus, and I assumed luck had more to do with things like items and persuasion than crits, although that's probably an oversight on my logic. Thank you for the write-up though, I'll definitely take it into account the next time I get into a dungeon area.
As for QoL changes, I can't really say, I don't have a baseline to compare it to. My only problem with the game so far is you still have tank controls despite being able to use sticks, and the item menu doesn't show anything unless you're about to use one.
MP items seem incredibly rare so I focused on strength tbh, I let the High Pixie do the magic attacks, though I'm kinda pissed she decided to replace Dia with Mudo.
- Joined
- May 12, 2017
Note: you don't have to agree to let skills mutate. Also, I'm pretty sure that High Pixie learns Mediarama at some point, so it's not THAT big of a loss.
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2019
Unpopular opinion but I've kind of grown tired of Shoji Meguro and find the SMT3 soundtrack is the weakest out of the main games (and throwing in famicom titles for good measure).
I really liked his stuff when I was in my teens but lately ehhh... Not trying to hate, Persona 5 is definitely his best work so far (maybe thanks to additional storage space? Longer compositions really help him I feel).
Still like his work on Digital Devil Saga and Maken X a lot. He has such a unique guitar sound, I always know its him playing.
I really liked his stuff when I was in my teens but lately ehhh... Not trying to hate, Persona 5 is definitely his best work so far (maybe thanks to additional storage space? Longer compositions really help him I feel).
Still like his work on Digital Devil Saga and Maken X a lot. He has such a unique guitar sound, I always know its him playing.
- Joined
- Mar 27, 2019
Astroglide is key.
(I'm just saying this because you already got practical advice.)
On one hand, I disagree with the broad strokes of his critiques, but on the other hand it can't be denied that they're information dense in regards to background and somewhat worthy of digestion.There's a reason for this. This blog in general may be enlightening:
Henshin-A-No-No, Baby! Why "Ultra" Odin Paints a Grim Future for Shin Megami Tensei Demon Design
by Soren and Eirikr The mercurial Norse deity Odin is a fascinating subject, one interpreted in countless ways around the world....eirikrjs.blogspot.com
And for why SMT's story tends to be so formulaic for lack of a better word:
Japanese-Jewish Common Ancestry Theory & Shin Megami Tensei: Pseudohistorical Fantasies into Anti-Semitic Nightmares
"...We used the Japanese-Jewish Common Ancestor Theory as the base ." - Yusuke Miyata, Shin Megami Tensei IV: Apocalypse scenario write...
It really does seem to be devolving into some weird Japanese-supremacist-humanist masturbatory fanfic with production values.
...it's just that I can't get Homer Simpson holding the biggest "NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERD" out of my head after reading for more than three minutes.