The Trial of Derek Chauvin - Judgement(?) Day(?) has arrived!

[MugolEx]

I'm even willing to accept you city bugmen moving to my nice rural areas because I hate the thought of people still being there against their will.

The bugmen can stay in the shit they created.

 

[Bongocat]

 

[wry wrangler]

Is it naive of me to assume that there are parts of the Twin Cities that are still going to be safe to live in, even with rioting going on? You know, the richer areas, even the more middle class areas and such.

 

[AnOminous]

Its non existent. They have have not even tried to argue intent. Which is a critical component of 2nd degree murder. I guess the prosecution is hoping everyone on that jury is an emotional idiot.

I think it's one of those decision theory things, whereby including an extra option nobody is actually going to choose, you make the decision on something you actually have a shot at more likely because jurors can decide it is a compromise verdict. Another oddity is one of the second degree counts is a felony murder, yet they are not charging any underlying felony. This is another reason why I don't think they're even serious about that count.

 

[KiwiFuzz]

Is it naive of me to assume that there are parts of the Twin Cities that are still going to be safe to live in, even with rioting going on? You know, the richer areas, even the more middle class areas and such.

I'm wondering how many 98% white outlying communities are going to announce that there are zero houses or apartments available for certain displaced citizens.

 

[TFT-A9]

I'm wondering how many 98% white outlying communities are going to announce that there are zero houses or apartments available for certain displaced citizens.

If they're smart, all of them.

 

[AnOminous]

I don't know who Andrew McCarthy is. But there is no language about the action: "thus imperils everyone in the vicinity."

The language is connected to case law about the statute, specifically the Noor case. This was a 2-1 case with a dissent, upholding a conviction under this depraved indifference statute. The dissent made the argument that the conduct cannot just threaten one person. The state Supreme Court is going to hear arguments on this in June, well after Chauvin's trial.

If it reverses, this will probably have what is called pipeline retroactivity, affecting all cases then in progress or on direct appeal, including Chauvin's. So if Chauvin is convicted on this theory, which apparently is the currently prevailing view, and the state Supreme Court subsequently rules the "imperils everyone in the vicinity" reasoning is the correct view, it could end up being reversed down the line. It is generally what depraved-indifference requires as the type alleged in this case is something like firing a gun into a crowd without any intention of killing anyone specific but the act being depraved, so there are the components of the statutory language (which does not explicitly include such a requirement as you point out), and the common law surrounding the general theory, which is often seen as doing so.

I'm not sure of Minnesota's procedures, but in the event of a conviction, the defense might somehow be able to fast-track the appeal based on the likelihood of a ruling directly on point for their case. That isn't going to happen until some time well past the end of this trial, in all likelihood.

It should be noted, as McCarthy did, that the judge in this case is currently bound by the majority in Noor. He can't just ignore it even if he believes the dissent was correct.

Needless to say, Ellison is entirely aware of this case. He is the Attorney General who litigated it.

 

[pwnest injun]

Is it naive of me to assume that there are parts of the Twin Cities that are still going to be safe to live in, even with rioting going on? You know, the richer areas, even the more middle class areas and such.

It's hard to fuck up a whole city that fast. Within a decade, though...

 

[Gehenna]

Judge denies the motion because "that's a totally different case" and he thinks sequestering the jury now might make the jury more likely to think there is a threat to their safety based on their participation in the trial. He says the jurors all acknowledged concern about sitting on the jury from the beginning.

Did... did he admit that? "Yes, this jury admitted to being tampered with from the start."

To be fair, I'm willing to bet this is more because Nelson's case is more concentrated and precise than the state's. The state brought in everyone on the street that day and half the police force and half a dozen randos. Nelson's probably going to be focused on bringing in experts and proving the reasonable doubt, which really never needed to take up so much time in the first place. I'm sure the jury will be pleased that at least someone's not trying to waste their time.
The only negative thing this really presents for defense is that the prosecution's 2 weeks of witness brigading is still going to be pretty fresh in their minds, but I think after a weekend break and closing arguments that kind of disadvantage will be more neutralized.

This is actually bad for the prosecution. While you might think "Fresh in the minds", the muddled, mixed, and generally lackluster result is going to blend together into a mental slurry. If the jury wasn't left with a strong impression, it will leave them with no impression.

The longer your case is made, the more it blends together. After just over a week I believe, the case in the juries mind is going to be blended together to the point of utter in distinctiveness. If Nelson managed to create any doubt at all, it means that the whole thing is scuttled.


The only thing that is keeping the prosecution's case afloat is the fact that, as noted above, the jury is already tampered with.

 

[AnOminous]

Did... did he admit that? "Yes, this jury admitted to being tampered with from the start."

I believe so. I believe every single juror, without exception, admitted they already had a negative opinion of the defendant, and at least some expressed concerns for their own safety as well.

 

[TFT-A9]

The language is connected to case law about the statute, specifically the Noor case. This was a 2-1 case with a dissent, upholding a conviction under this depraved indifference statute. The dissent made the argument that the conduct cannot just threaten one person. The state Supreme Court is going to hear arguments on this in June, well after Chauvin's trial.

If it reverses, this will probably have what is called pipeline retroactivity, affecting all cases then in progress or on direct appeal, including Chauvin's. So if Chauvin is convicted on this theory, which apparently is the currently prevailing view, and the state Supreme Court subsequently rules the "imperils everyone in the vicinity" reasoning is the correct view, it could end up being reversed down the line. It is generally what depraved-indifference requires as the type alleged in this case is something like firing a gun into a crowd without any intention of killing anyone specific but the act being depraved, so there are the components of the statutory language (which does not explicitly include such a requirement as you point out), and the common law surrounding the general theory, which is often seen as doing so.

I'm not sure of Minnesota's procedures, but in the event of a conviction, the defense might somehow be able to fast-track the appeal based on the likelihood of a ruling directly on point for their case. That isn't going to happen until some time well past the end of this trial, in all likelihood.

It should be noted, as McCarthy did, that the judge in this case is currently bound by the majority in Noor. He can't just ignore it even if he believes the dissent was correct.

Needless to say, Ellison is entirely aware of this case. He is the Attorney General who litigated it.

I think I'd die laughing if Noor getting his sentence overturned got Chauvin to walk free.

The irony would be too thick. If it happens everyone needs to know that Chauvin got his conviction overturned because of Noor. Watch heads everywhere spin. I think I'd need a neckbrace myself from the whiplash.

 

[Gehenna]

I believe so. I believe every single juror, without exception, admitted they already had a negative opinion of the defendant, and at least some expressed concerns for their own safety as well.

There is no way this isn't appealed. Between everything that occured within the trial, outside of the trial, and the very start of the trial the grounds for it being declared a mistrial are too strong. At this point, "Not Guilty" straight up isn't an option. There is an increasingly small chance of a mistrial.

 

[ObeseScreamingBlackMan]

God I hope all the bugmen from MN stay the fuck out of Wisconsin. They're going to be fucking up all the border states and bringing their retardation with them.

Wisconsin is already gay and retarded.

 

[aussiejinjo]

they should have selected jurors who had never heard any of the media coverage from last year

that means the jury should have comprised

-3 eskimos
-3 martians
-6 imperial japanese army soldiers who were still camped out in the jungles of borneo unaware that ww2 had ended yet

 

[Flip: Draw 2]

Did... did he admit that? "Yes, this jury admitted to being tampered with from the start."

This is actually bad for the prosecution. While you might think "Fresh in the minds", the muddled, mixed, and generally lackluster result is going to blend together into a mental slurry. If the jury wasn't left with a strong impression, it will leave them with no impression.

The longer your case is made, the more it blends together. After just over a week I believe, the case in the juries mind is going to be blended together to the point of utter in distinctiveness. If Nelson managed to create any doubt at all, it means that the whole thing is scuttled.


The only thing that is keeping the prosecution's case afloat is the fact that, as noted above, the jury is already tampered with.

The prosecution made a massive mistake pushing the knee as the primary culprit for Floyd's death. I know they have to in order to make the murder charges stick but let's be honest, I don't think they even expect that to stick. If they simply kept the clear narrative that:
1. Floyd died from an OD
2. Despite OD'ing, he might have been saved if CPR was administered.
3. Police protocol and common sense would dictate that Chauvin's duty was to administer aid.
It sets up the jury to only focus on manslaughter it would be a way better hill to die on. If the jurors have reasonable doubt about the knee and they keep bringing it up they're going to muddy the waters way more than they needed to. Their poor choice of witnesses isn't helping and the redundancy is already becoming a problem. The prosecution is swinging for the fences with the murder charges and that's gonna cost them dearly. The must really think the manslaughter charge is already in the bag.

 

[Fields Of Rye]

Alright so the retard who shot a cop in SC a few years back has decided NOW of all times is the moment to appeal his case

Like

The guy who shot a man in the back for child support, then planted a taser on him, while people filmed him in shock, is trying to use the momentum from this case to his advantage

Or in other words, according to our expert witness in murdering unarmed blacks, Chauvin's gonna walk.

 

[Honka Honka Burning Love]

I believe so. I believe every single juror, without exception, admitted they already had a negative opinion of the defendant, and at least some expressed concerns for their own safety as well.

I am sure that will go over well in appeals.

 

[You're a Big Guy]

Is it naive of me to assume that there are parts of the Twin Cities that are still going to be safe to live in, even with rioting going on? You know, the richer areas, even the more middle class areas and such.

Yes. They're done for.

 

[Prester John]

Yes. They're done for.

Haven't these rioters heard of Minnesota Nice?

 

[Geralt of Rivia]

Haven't these rioters heard of Minnesota Nice?

So passive they allow autonomous zones to go unchecked, I'm sure they will handle the upcoming riots very well.