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- Sep 30, 2021
The Windows OS Thread - Formerly THE OS for gamers and normies, now sadly ruined by Pajeets
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Leaded Gasoline
kiwifarms.net
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- Dec 7, 2023
the lazy fucks at valve haven't even released the new version for PC or taken down this ancient download page
what makes you think that it'll be different this time? look at the steam client and its bugs that have remained unfixed for half a fucking decade while the RAM usage keeps increasing with each update
SteamOS works on the Deck because it has custom hardware and drivers, the PC version is going to be garbage no matter what because that's just how Linux is with 90% of hardware configurations
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2021
Just use Windows as a daily driver, since it comes with an easy passthrough to a Linux VM out of the box. WSL2 is the best feature of Windows 11.
Security features introduced from 8th gen Intel forward protect your OS against kernel-level attacks, enable convenient features like browser-based password storage, fix a massive security hole in PIN logon, greatly improve driver compatibility and reduce crashes, and allow you to use device-level encryption in web-based services.
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
I'm also gonna stretch Win10 but I already have a plan B for Win11 laid out. ExplorerPatcher can bring back the old taskbar, and if that gets cut out, there's always Windhawk and it's tricks to manipulate the new WinUI3 taskbar. It's like what Ross Scott from Accursed Farms said. It's not the end of the world, it's just that now you'll need to put in more work to get it to be usable.
If you look into the spec sheets, the new generation requirements are related to the TPM requirements. They're forcing people to move to newer CPU's that have better security features. Kinda stupid to not give people a "I know what I'm doing" bypass so they can have a tad bit less security on the older machines but eh, you can always go with Linux if you're that incessant on keeping your old hardware running.
I have an Alder Lake so I can run Win11 and I repurposed the old hardware for a second machine for learning self-hosting, and generally speaking, if you have a machine that's old enough that it doesn't support Win11, just do yourself a favor, upgrade anyway and repurpose the old hardware. Even a modern midrange CPU will be a major QoL improvement, no matter if you're on Windows or Linux.
- Joined
- Jul 3, 2021
Not sure if this was talked about but Microsoft released a broken patch and they still haven’t fixed it. Their solution is to do a risky workaround or use a script (and it probably doesn’t work):
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...y-9-2024-62c04204-aaa5-4fee-a02a-2fdea17075a8https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...y-9-2024-62c04204-aaa5-4fee-a02a-2fdea17075a8
https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...y-9-2024-62c04204-aaa5-4fee-a02a-2fdea17075a8https://support.microsoft.com/en-us...y-9-2024-62c04204-aaa5-4fee-a02a-2fdea17075a8
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2021
Windows 10 isn't going to quit running. Around 2027 or 2028, you'll see software companies gradually stop releasing new products for it.
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
So won't Windows 7 but it's not a good idea to daily drive it when it has zero support.
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2021
If you're fine running 10-year-old hardware that's past end of support, though, running software that's out of support shouldn't be a major concern.
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2019
Yeah, that's what open-shell does, too.
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
lol no it doesn't. Open-Shell only restores the classic start menu, notice that the article you've linked is from 2020 and has no mentions of Windows 11. You'll still be stuck with the new taskbar on Win11, and for that you'll need ExplorerPatcher. There's also StartAllBack but that's paid and ExplorerPatcher is FOSS.
If you have no idea what I'm talking about, install Win11 in a VM and just see for yourself how different and retarded it is compared to Win10 and why you'll want ExplorerPatcher on top of other tweaks to get it to a state of normalcy. That's how I got a feel of what I'm gonna have to deal with if I move to it while still staying on Win10.
btw personally I don't even use Open-Shell, I only recommend it for the average users now. I have my start button hidden and my Win keys soft disabled by AutoHotkey. I've adapted my workflow to a much better solution, Keypirinha. Keyboard launchers are simply superior.
- Joined
- Aug 20, 2022
I used to do that, but I found myself just using Windows all the time eventually because it was a pain to switch back and forth.
I'm already doing that; if I were to switch to Linux it would be for privacy/security reasons.
I think the major concern is MS will stop making security patches.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2013
I think anything that uses undocumented APIs is a bad idea. Microsoft has already issued a number of Windows updates that break systems using ExplorerPatcher, StartAllBack, etc. and all indications are that they'll keep doing so.
https://devblogs.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20230324-00/?p=107966
For now it's purely been by happenstance as they shuffle things around in the parts of the code that aren't (supposed to be) public-facing.
At any rate, the days of MS bending over backward to maintain bug-for-bug compatibility even with "tricky" software are long gone.
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
Honestly, this wouldn't be a problem if Microsoft actually did some work and had feature parity of the new WinUI3 taskbar with the old taskbar dating all the way back to Win95. As it stands right now, the new taskbar cannot be moved to the top or to the sides, it cannot be resized, you can't add the old directory shortcuts, and only recently did they manage to bring back the old "don't group show labels" options.
That's why people go with ExplorerPatcher, because the new WinUI3 taskbar lacks the features of the old taskbar, features that existed ever since the taskbar was first introduced in Windows 95. If Microsoft just bothered to implement that parity it would bring down the need of hacking the old taskbar back immensely. But no, let's just ship an inferior solution to what we already had and don't bother re-adding things that people were used to in the previous solution that existed for decades.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2013
I get it, there's no question that Windows' UI is a rolling disaster. I just don't think ExplorerPatcher is a viable solution long-term because Microsoft is going to break things either unintentionally or intentionally.
At this point I think the options are: cling onto Win10 LTSC (if possible for your use case), grit your teeth and endure with only the registry/policy-based UI tweaks, or eat the toejam and go to GNU-plus-Linux and Wine. None of these are great options.
Also, this got me thinking: are there any of those full shell replacements like they used to have back in the day? Turns out there's one still being (sort-of) actively developed: Cairo Desktop
Might try playing around with it in a VM and see what it's all about. Looks like they're soy-drenched Mac imitators but who knows, maybe it could be wrangled into something good.
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
I agree, this is something I'm aware of and I admit I'm being an idiot for not being upfront about it when recommending it to others.
There's also the option of people modding the WinUI3 taskbar, which is already happening with Windhawk mods. It's all XML bullshit that you can fuck with so you're more likely to mod it without any unexpected issues.
You can fuck with it without a VM, it's very benign, hides the Explorer shell, loads it's own, no system deep modifications, once you're bored of it you just close it, you're back to normal and you can uninstall it. I don't like it because I can't have it to replicate what I have right now, which is just a list of currently running programs and the tray that autohides at the bottom, it forces the top bar to be always visible and I want to dedicate the maximum of my screen space for my programs.
At this point I could get away with just nuking the taskbar if not for the fact that I don't have a good way to move the tray icons to some other spot. I don't use the start menu, I actually have the start button hidden because I rely on a keyboard launcher, I don't really use the tray clock and I can easily replace that and the calendar with Rainmeter skins, but it's always the tray icons that are the issue. I have a lot of them and there's nothing to just act as a way to access them and nothing more.
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2021
The fear of Win 11 UI changes is overblown. The differences from Win 10 are minor at best. The only one I really notice is they decided to make cut, copy, paste, and rename glyphs instead of words, and this does not stop mildly irritating me. I find the Pinned Apps in the start menu and Top Apps in the search menu to be quite useful. Yes, it's now an extra click to get to the old-style start menu, but since those two menu apps have what I want nearly 100% of the time, I almost never use the old start menu.
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
What I really don't understand about the new context menu is that it's completely different from the old one. Why is that an issue? The old context menu existed ever since Windows NT 4.0, and ever single piece of software that adds context menu items uses that. If the software uses a shell extension, sure, that can be a bit of a hassle to migrate. But regular options? It's all plain text registry keys, just parse those the same way you parse them in the old menu. And all you have to do to revert it is to add a single change to the registry, and the info on that is on the official Microsoft page.
The main reason people hate the UI changes in Win11 is because Microsoft touched something they haven't touched for decades and they've fucked it up by replacing it with something new that doesn't at least have the 1:1 function parity with the old thing before they decided to add new things to it. If MS devs had the two brain cells needed to realize that if they're gonna replace those crucial UI elements with the new fancy WinUI3 ones, do a 1:1 port first, then start fucking with it to make it cool and modern. Then those complaints would go down.
Of course, people are still mad about Win11 because MS released a new OS that's different and every single time in the history of this OS that happened, people bitched and complained, and then switched to the new OS and suddenly the OS that they hated so much, they now love. Just look at when Windows 10 first released and how people talk about it now. 2015? Win10 is so bad, telemetry spyware bloat Win7 was superior in every way bahbahbahbah. 2021? Win11 is so bad, telemetry spyware bloat Win10 was superior in every way bahbahbahbah.
It's a vicious cycle as old as time. MS releases a new OS, people hate it, declare the old one as the better one, get used to the new one, like it, rinse and repeat.
As for the new start menu, since they've brought up the ability to not group everything and show labels they've managed to bring it to some level of normalcy people were used to in Win10. Now the only thing they really have to reimplement is the ability to move the taskbar to other positions than just the bottom, and allow for it's resizing. Just reach that parity and people will stop complaining, and they'll stop using ExplorerPatcher to bring back the Win10 taskbar. Come on Raymond, you should know better than that.
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2013
The thing is, Win10 was a lolcow in 2015. By now, most of the rough edges have been sanded off. Bloatware doesn't grow back with every update anymore, telemetry isn't a mystery no one knows how to deal with anymore, forced reboots for updates aren't insane anymore, LTSC is well-understood and not-so-difficult to obtain legitimately, and so on. And by now there are plenty of UI tweaks for the people who hated some aspect of the 7->10 transition. Even if you're a Win7 dead-ender (as I was right up until EOL) there's now a path to settle into a reasonable, stable Win10 experience that didn't exist in 2015.
- Joined
- Dec 17, 2019
And the exact same thing is happening with 11. It got released, it's shit, MS is slowly but surely sanding off the edges, people are figuring out how to gut it, life goes on. This happened with every major Windows release, and every time people overreact. There's still a year before Win10 goes EOL and by that time there might even be a Win11 LTSC for the spergs that swear by it being the "best Windows", because they can't tard wrangle regular Win11, which already got plenty of polish.
I actually started off with Win10 LTSC, then upgraded it to a newer LTSC version, then switched to Pro after bringing back MS Store and deciding "eh why the fuck not", then I bricked that install by fucking with the partitions via gparted because I wanted to delete the unused recovery partition at the very beginning, so I had to reinstall Win10, went with Pro, and by now I forgot I had to reinstall, and that my old OS was that much of a mess. With a bit of time spent on debloating and cleaning things up you can turn regular Win10/Win11 in a solid OS, and I'd rather do that than try and deal with Troonix.
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2021
I don't think Win 10 was bad at launch, but I let it update every night instead of trying to delay everything until it forced me to. For the most part, Windows is fine if you're not trying to fight it.
I doubt there are many people who are security-literate enough to worry about the consequences of running an outdated machine on the internet and are running 10-year-old computers.
I doubt there are many people who are security-literate enough to worry about the consequences of running an outdated machine on the internet and are running 10-year-old computers.