The Windows OS Thread - Formerly THE OS for gamers and normies, now sadly ruined by Pajeets

[the rat]

I think I love you.

Google is my best friend.

I want to go on about some stuff regarding my thoughts on the UI evolution in Windows but I'd need to really think about it before I start schizoposting.

One thing though, @Slav Power is wrong WinUI3 is fucking UGLY. Windows 11 is UGLY. It's like with Windows 8 and how that tried to mix tablet and desktop paradigms together but unlike 8 it fails at both and results in being disgusting. Maybe it's just me though, I fucking hate large buttons, acrylic transparency and where that transparency is being applied.

It looks like a fucking amateur project by one of those cunts who make 50 billion gtk3 themes that all look the same. "No you see rounded corners EVERYWHERE is actually a good thing because uhhhhhhh soft and nature and shiiieeeet" and that's not to say rounded corners are inherently bad, when used correctly it can look really good. But how it is being applied fucking everywhere it just looks so wrong and cheap along with everything else like how the materials look. Literal tranny design

edit: I actually think I hate mica far more. these modern transparency effects are so fucking ugly. just give me aero transparency without the silly reflection effect. it would look SO FUCKING GOOD alongside the vision of 1507 better realized and polished. Aero looks really fucking good alongside more simplified iconography and and boxy elements (look at the Windows 8 release preview, the desktop/windows doesn't look half bad).

 

[Overly Serious]

If we're ranting about Windows 11 UI how about the fact that it is now less capable than before? I like a Bloomberg terminal style colour scheme. Dark background, orange text (darkened green is fine too). It's relaxing on the eyes. I can do that on any Linux DE or in some older Windows versions. On 11? Fuck you. Yes, you can make the default text orange in some parts of the interface but for text in Explorer or on the Desktop? It auto-creates a contrast colour of its own choosing whether you like it or not.

I've poked in the registry and looked elsewhere. I can't find anything that lets me set a specific colour and it's certainly not available in the settings menus. Nor, to that point, are some of the other controls I want unless I specifically set a High Contrast Theme in which case other options are now unavailable because they're treated as two separate sets of options rather than High Contrast Theme just being, you know, a regular theme with particular colours.

I would love it if Windows could trust me the way most Linux distros trust me. It's not Bill Gate's job to protect me from myself.

Personally I think the Windows 10 iteration of the start menu is probably the best regarding ease of use for both finding programs and not having to move both my mouse and eyes so far to find shit in a weird looking list but for your case, what about the full screen mode in Windows 10?

Honestly, that's still cluttered and cramped to me. There's a whole screen available and if I am in the Start menu I am not looking at anything else the way I might be with two applications side by side. So just use the whole screen and let me organise it how I want. I've never seen Microsoft have a good idea or a good application without subsequently fucking it up somehow. I might have listed Word or Excel but they've gone and stuck Copilot in there now (which I have turned off).

 

[Banana Hammock]

My schizo theory is that once people get used to integrated AI, it'll start being used to detect pirated material. They'll initially describe it as being used to detect CSEM and other illegal material, since people are more likely to accept things like this if they're told it's to protect kids.

 

[the rat]

If we're ranting about Windows 11 UI how about the fact that it is now less capable than before? I like a Bloomberg terminal style colour scheme. Dark background, orange text (darkened green is fine too). It's relaxing on the eyes. I can do that on any Linux DE or in some older Windows versions. On 11? Fuck you. Yes, you can make the default text orange in some parts of the interface but for text in Explorer or on the Desktop? It auto-creates a contrast colour of its own choosing whether you like it or not.

A lot of that could probably be done through a custom msstyles theme. That would be a headache to make though.

 

[Slav Power]

One thing though, @Slav Power is wrong WinUI3 is fucking UGLY. Windows 11 is UGLY.

I say that Windows 11 looks great in comparison to Windows 10/8. The Metro style was overly flat and you had a hard time differentiating between elements. All the icons, flat. Every piece of UI, flat. The Settings panel still relied on tablet tile shit from Windows 8. In comparison Windows 11 is an improvement. Soft gradients improve readability and usability, they're easier on the eyes compared to everything being flat, and the new WinUI3 Settings menu actually feels like it was designed with desktop computers in mind, as well as the quick settings menu which is just a balloon pop-up that mimics the way smartphone quick settings look like, which, again, a big upgrade for mobile devices over the combined notification list with flat quick settings tiles slammed at the bottom that slides out of the entire right edge of the screen.

Yes, Aero of Vista/7 was still the peak of Windows visual design, but relative to Windows 10, Windows 11 is a visual improvement to an extent. There are still unforgivable regressions like throwing out the old taskbar and not adding features to the new one that existed ever since the taskbar got introduced in Windows 95, adding the new tacky context menu that only works against you as 99.9% of Windows software doesn't use that new framework so you have to do an extra click or do a registry tweak to bring up the old context menu, or the overreliance on webshit that leads to worsened UI performance.

A lot of that could probably be done through a custom msstyles theme. That would be a headache to make though.

Not to mention that custom msstyles themes that force a dark mode on all Win32 programs are finnicky, as some software hardcodes the colors and you end up with black on black unreadable mess. Though now that you mention msstyles, a lot of Win11's stylization could've been made within that without having to redo the taskbar/start menu/etc in fucking React to make it look coherent. But then again, this is post-Nadella Microsoft we're talking about, enjeetification is in full swing.

 

[the rat]

Remembered that Microsoft actually still have UI guidelines intended for Windows 7 still hosted. The team behind the Windows UI around the 2000s to early 2010s used to care .
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/uxguide/guidelines

These two are probably my favourite pages:
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/uxguide/inter-mouse
https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/win32/uxguide/win-window-frames

One really funny thing is how they show an example of a bad use of glass by showing off the gadgets pane. Good job following your own guidelines Kikerosoft.

I say that Windows 11 looks great in comparison to Windows 10/8.

Generally I'd group 8 and 10 separately considering they have very clearly different interpretations of the Metro look. Where Windows 8 opted for bold colours, thick outlines and a refusal to use transparency anywhere, Windows 10 went for a much more tamer look with a clear emphasis on being thinner, darker and utilizing transparency. Not counting the evolution of Windows 10's design going from a more tamer Metro to incorporating Fluent Design to the beginning of the end in 1903, of course.

Don't get it twisted though, there is a lot in Windows 10 that I think is just outright fucking ugly. Like look at the fucking taskbar context menu, the fuck is going on there? There already exists a variation of that context menu with that colour scheme that uses the same padding as the general Win32 one.

For reference:


And this tabletfication is in a lot of places, like the settings program that you mentioned. This is just bad.



Not to say I don't like how the buttons look though.


I think that's my main problem, Windows 10 has ugly UX utilizing a style that if better implemented (and not fucked over with shit like acrylic blur, transparency noise and killing inky blacks for fucking ugly greys, 1903 constantly proving to be the shittiest update regarding Windows 10's style) could look extremely pretty. Wasted potential like everything Microsoft makes.

Every day I dream of a version of Windows 10 1809 with the UWP shit ripped right out, a true dark Win32 palette and nice looking window borders using both aero transparency with no stupid reflection and simplistic iconography.

Or maybe it's just me. Do you even understand what I'm even trying to say? I think I'm bordering on schizoposting. I've tried with using stuff like DWMBlurGlass but idk man.

 

[Slav Power]

Do you even understand what I'm even trying to say?

The right mix of Win10's flatness, darkness and angularity with Aero's blur and eye candy I guess? Sounds like a good idea but unfortunately the current zeitgeist wouldn't let that happen.

Though what I'd like to see is for the current zeitgeist to mature and brave up enough to make neumorphism a thing.

Obviously not perfect but it's the right direction for a compromise between the old skeumorphism and modern flatness.

It's a bit of copium hopium huffing, but hopefully now that Apple came up with Liquid Glass design that takes inspiration from both Aero and skeumorphism, we'll see some good looking and usable UI designs in the future.

 

[Kosher Dill]

Though what I'd like to see is for the current zeitgeist to mature and brave up enough to make neumorphism a thing.

You want your desktop to look like the lid of a coffee cup?

 

[Betonhaus]

So what is this Windows Xbox edition going to be like? Will it end up being a legitimate alternative for LTSC IoT for gamers?

 

[Retard Marine]

The right mix of Win10's flatness, darkness and angularity with Aero's blur and eye candy I guess? Sounds like a good idea but unfortunately the current zeitgeist wouldn't let that happen.

Though what I'd like to see is for the current zeitgeist to mature and brave up enough to make neumorphism a thing.

Obviously not perfect but it's the right direction for a compromise between the old skeumorphism and modern flatness.

It's a bit of copium hopium huffing, but hopefully now that Apple came up with Liquid Glass design that takes inspiration from both Aero and skeumorphism, we'll see some good looking and usable UI designs in the future.

Rounded corners, even slightly rounded need to die though, especially on application windows if they cut into the application's client area. Doubly so if it also does that for old programs which never expected it.

On Win7 rounded corners were okay since they only cut into the decorations aka border area though I still always stuck to the classic theme. Not having to deal with the compositor and forced vsync was a nice bonus. It also reminded me of using Win2k which honestly was peak Windows unless you were a moron who connected your PC to the Internet directly and got wormed.

So what is this Windows Xbox edition going to be like? Will it end up being a legitimate alternative for LTSC IoT for gamers?

Doubt.

 

[Slav Power]

You want your desktop to look like the lid of a coffee cup?

It's not the best example of neumorphism but you get the gist, it's something in-between flat design and skeumorphism where you get the visual cleanliness of the former but usability of the latter, and it seems that Apple is pulling it off well. Hopefully people will copy Apple on the things they do well, and they copy them right this time around.

Rounded corners, even slightly rounded need to die though, especially on application windows if they cut into the application's client area. Doubly so if it also does that for old programs which never expected it.

Those are some extremely edge case scenarios that you're talking about. How many programs would realistically suffer from usability if you rounded those bottom corners? Because remember, the top borders were rounded ever since the XP Fischer-Price UI, but people made a big whoop about it when 11 brought them back and expanded them to the bottom after those 6 years when people got used to every edge in 10 being a perfect 90 degree angle.

 

[Retard Marine]

Those are some extremely edge case scenarios that you're talking about. How many programs would realistically suffer from usability if you rounded those bottom corners?

TBQH I've not run into any serious usability problems with this whenever I've had to deal with Win11 but it still looks sloppy to me when parts of the text on the status bar are cut. I've also seen screenshots of emulators and virtual machines running on Win11 with corners not visible. I want to see all the pixels of the emulated screen.

Because remember, the top borders were rounded ever since the XP Fischer-Price UI

I have no problem with only title bars being rounded. MacOS used to do it this way too. Some might not like the asymmetry though.

Also maybe just let people customize the look without hacking the OS or installing payware like WindowBlinds lol.

 

[Slav Power]

I've also seen screenshots of emulators and virtual machines running on Win11 with corners not visible.

Windhawk/Mica For Everyone can do those small process injection tweaks that disable the rounded corners. Obviously you shouldn't be using third party software that uses the same process manipulation methods as malware to do basic visual tweaking like this but hey-ho, it is what it is.

 

[the rat]

Rounded corners, even slightly rounded need to die though, especially on application windows if they cut into the application's client area. Doubly so if it also does that for old programs which never expected it.

On Win7 rounded corners were okay since they only cut into the decorations aka border area though I still always stuck to the classic theme. Not having to deal with the compositor and forced vsync was a nice bonus. It also reminded me of using Win2k which honestly was peak Windows unless you were a moron who connected your PC to the Internet directly and got wormed.

Rounded corners can look fine if used appropriately. Using them EVERYWHERE at EVERY INSTANCE is awful though. Say for example the Apple menu bar, the item list should not have rounded corners at the top so that the list can look connected to the bar, it flows nicely, right? But having rounded corners at the bottom (as long as they're not too extreme) doesn't look bad at all.



Windows 7 actually utilized rounded corners in a lot of places like, as you said, the window borders, the multiple variations of buttons and the context menu. They CAN look good, but overuse and using an extreme radius will just make it all look shit. Speaking of rounded window borders, they were actually the same shape from XP to 7 until going full sharp in 8. Round at the top, sharp at the bottom.

It's not the best example of neumorphism but you get the gist, it's something in-between flat design and skeumorphism where you get the visual cleanliness of the former but usability of the latter, and it seems that Apple is pulling it off well. Hopefully people will copy Apple on the things they do well, and they copy them right this time around.

I've looked at a lot of examples of neumorphism and I honestly just can't bring myself to like it. To me it's like a trannys version of what they were going with the iOS 6 app store and music app (pity they did not expand that design language across the entire system instead of going full Jony Ive super-flat, I think it's great upgrade from the plastic looking material they were using).

 

[the rat]

Windhawk/Mica For Everyone can do those small process injection tweaks that disable the rounded corners. Obviously you shouldn't be using third party software that uses the same process manipulation methods as malware to do basic visual tweaking like this but hey-ho, it is what it is.

Someone made a blog post about that. Fun read.

 

[Kosher Dill]

Someone made a blog post about that. Fun read.

On the one hand it's impressive work on their part, but on the other hand this sounds like it'll brick your OS instantly the next time Microsoft pushes an update. (Didn't something like this already happen with ExplorerPatcher?)
"Oh, this binary hotpatch was only for 26100.1350, you're on 26100.1488 now. Tough luck!"
I realize binary patchers have a fairly long history at this point but I think if you're at that point it's time to either just accept what's available or jump to Troonix.

 

[the rat]

On the one hand it's impressive work on their part, but on the other hand this sounds like it'll brick your OS instantly the next time Microsoft pushes an update. (Didn't something like this already happen with ExplorerPatcher?)
"Oh, this binary hotpatch was only for 26100.1350, you're on 26100.1488 now. Tough luck!"
I realize binary patchers have a fairly long history at this point but I think if you're at that point it's time to either just accept what's available or jump to Troonix.

Pretty much, they even say that it can possibly result in DWM crash looping itself. If you could figure out a way to prevent DWM from starting until you pass the LoginUI then you would probably be safe (have a separate user that doesn't not start DWM and have LoginUI use the console mode) but that is such a hacky thing to do just for square corners.

It'd be nice if Microsoft opened up DWM for customization like what one of their devs said was being thought on around 2008.

"dzCepheus wonders about end users and developers creating their own effects, for instance, mapping window content onto spinning cylinders. This is definitely something that we've thought about, and are going to look into extensibility in these directions in a future release, but for Windows Vista, this level of extensibility isn't possible. What is possible is more limited -- the ability to extend glass/blur into the window, and the ability to manipulate live thumbnails of windows in your own applications. More on that in a future post."

This would probably explain why they added animation data to the visual styles. A tranny over at winclassic talked about it.

 

[Miller]

So what is this Windows Xbox edition going to be like? Will it end up being a legitimate alternative for LTSC IoT for gamers?

Probably the Xbox app that is on Windows 10/11.

 

[Agent Abe Caprine]

I tried Windows 11 last night. I needed to look up how to bypass the internet requirement. Can't use ethernet and the motherboard in my new computer has onboard wifi, but it doesn't work. Bypass it and find out the start menu is in the center. Reeeeee.

I am aware of how to fix it. Kinda need functioning wifi to do that, though.

 

[Slav Power]

On the one hand it's impressive work on their part, but on the other hand this sounds like it'll brick your OS instantly the next time Microsoft pushes an update. (Didn't something like this already happen with ExplorerPatcher?)
"Oh, this binary hotpatch was only for 26100.1350, you're on 26100.1488 now. Tough luck!"

It would most likely be safer to implement it as a Windhawk tweak. Patch the process in memory, no need to modify system files, with the right code it can be more resilient to any potential changes. There's one for the corners available already in fact.