The “would the earth be better if Germany won WWII” debate thread - The hypothetical on if we’d all be better off speaking German

Depends how and when they win. My best guess is Brits peace out after Dunkirk and Soviets lose sometime in 1943. Germany never declares war on the USA and the Americans still go on to defeat Japan (sorry weebs there’s no way Japan wins)

It would be absolute dogshit for Europe. Firstly, the Axis would split up as it was more of an alliance of convenience. And with the absence of a common enemy there’d be no reason to keep the alliance. Any Axis member that’s not a German puppet or a colony would leave. Italy could possibly even have a rival sphere of influence.

The East would be a hellscape of constant genocide and partisan warfare. Tens of millions would starve and be worked to death when the Nazis put Generalplan Ost into action. The Nazis couldn’t even come close to pacifying Serbia and the Yugoslavs mostly liberated themselves. The entire Western USSR would be one giant Yugoslavia as any collaborators the Nazis managed to get on their side would turn on them at the first opportunity. The USSR doesn’t vanish as soon as the Nazis win and would continue supplying arms and partisans to the rebels. The Germans would sacrifice a significant portion of their military and economy just to pacifying the East.

I really don’t get this cope of “There would be no trannies or blacks!” especially by American NeetSocs. The Axis winning in Europe does not automatically make America Nazi.
 
People in this thread talk about the nazis the same way nazis talk about the jews.

Somehow they proped up a destroyed economy, conquered most of europe and waged war on half the planet becoming a threat that required the rest of the world to unite against them, while at the same time being incompetent retarded buffons with no sense of tactics or strategy, or how guns work or how to tie their own shoes.

You can't have it both ways guys
 
I really don’t get this cope of “There would be no trannies or blacks!” especially by American NeetSocs. The Axis winning in Europe does not automatically make America Nazi.
Yeah typically America is shown as being totally controlled by Jewish interests anyway from the beginning. The destruction of the Soviet Union would just lead to even more Jewish refugees traveling to settle in places like Canada, the USA, Brazil, etc. Especially if there's no Holocaust to thin their numbers on top of that. If anything the USA would be even more Jewish, hate the Nazis even more than they ever hated the Soviets, and the world would likely descend into nuclear war some time in the late 60s or early 70s. This is also being generous and assuming the Nazis could actually hold Europe together, which is questionable at best.
 
Depends how and when they win. My best guess is Brits peace out after Dunkirk and Soviets lose sometime in 1943. Germany never declares war on the USA and the Americans still go on to defeat Japan (sorry weebs there’s no way Japan wins)

It would be absolute dogshit for Europe. Firstly, the Axis would split up as it was more of an alliance of convenience. And with the absence of a common enemy there’d be no reason to keep the alliance. Any Axis member that’s not a German puppet or a colony would leave. Italy could possibly even have a rival sphere of influence.

The East would be a hellscape of constant genocide and partisan warfare. Tens of millions would starve and be worked to death when the Nazis put Generalplan Ost into action. The Nazis couldn’t even come close to pacifying Serbia and the Yugoslavs mostly liberated themselves. The entire Western USSR would be one giant Yugoslavia as any collaborators the Nazis managed to get on their side would turn on them at the first opportunity. The USSR doesn’t vanish as soon as the Nazis win and would continue supplying arms and partisans to the rebels. The Germans would sacrifice a significant portion of their military and economy just to pacifying the East.

I really don’t get this cope of “There would be no trannies or blacks!” especially by American NeetSocs. The Axis winning in Europe does not automatically make America Nazi.
In a world where the Nazis win you might get parallel-world Nuremberg Trials of the Soviets, which would be less credible since it's the Nazi propaganda machine running show trials, but it would still be a lot more than the nothing we got in OTL. Might makes right is also a big deal, "history is written by the victors" is overstated to a ridiculous degree (people seem to miss the whole point of revisionist anti-Western history), but in a Nazi victory you clearly have fascism as the winning system which will do wonders for its credibility. I don't see being just a palette swap of the Cold War, but I see Fascism coming out a lot better.
 
Yes, it actually would. A national socialist victory would of prevented these things that interfere with our daily lives.

- Israel/Palestine Conflict
- Antarctic Treaty
- United Nations
- European Union
- More allied psychological warfare
- The Cold War
- War on Terror
- Mass Immigration
- Pandemic and Climate Lockdowns
- Great Recession
- Hyperinflation
- LGBT Indoctrination
- Social Credit System
- The Great Reset
- Deforestation
- People's Republic of China
- North Korea
- Rwandan Genocide
- Assassinations of people who present a new change or idea that interferes with Zionist control.
- Operation Paperclip
- NASA

Add on if Germany won World War I there would be no Great Depression and no Weimar Republic either.

Also, National Socialists also know how to get a country out of extreme hyperinflation too.
 
(sorry weebs there’s no way Japan wins)
I don't know. Had Japan won the Battle of Midway and a couple of more navel engagements, I think it would have been enough to demoralize the American public from wanting to continue the war. Sure American capabilities of production would still be crazy but what good would that be if most of the public would not want to continue the war. With the Japanese pushing the Americans further away from their home islands they would be out of there range. Without the constant allied bombing raids on their cities, they could probably beat China by the end of 1945 or mid 1946 at the very latest.
 
I don't know. Had Japan won the Battle of Midway and a couple of more navel engagements, I think it would have been enough to demoralize the American public from wanting to continue the war. Sure American capabilities of production would still be crazy but what good would that be if most of the public would not want to continue the war. With the Japanese pushing the Americans further away from their home islands they would be out of there range. Without the constant allied bombing raids on their cities, they could probably beat China by the end of 1945 or mid 1946 at the very latest.
They were so pissed off over pearl harbor that they put 100 thousand of their own citizens in camps. Even if they somehow won every Japanese victory would only just delay the inevitable.
 
The Nazis couldn’t even come close to pacifying Serbia and the Yugoslavs mostly liberated themselves
Not true, the Germans were close a few times to besting the Partisans and it can be presumed in a world where Germany won they would eventually come out on top through sheer attrition if not actually achieving their goal of cutting off the head of the Partisans.
 
IMO there are basically three plausible, if very unlikely, "victory" scenarios for Germany in WW2:

1. Early Bilateral Peace
scenario 1.png


Germany settles with Britain (and France) in a negotiated peace in 1940 that "corrects" the Versailles treaty, giving Germany free hand in Central Europe in exchange for withdrawing from the West. Possible if the appeasement advocates in Britain had won out in the 1940 War Cabinet Crisis. Central and Southeastern Europe would be reorganized into a fascist political block and German-funded fascist movements would gain more influence in Western Europe. Tensions between the USSR and Germany would eventually inevitably increase, and with anti-Communism strong in the West a Liberal-Fascist alliance might form. If war breaks out, Britain, France and even the US could see themselves fighting side by side with the Germans.

2. Early Unilateral Peace
scenario 2.png


Germany forces Britain into a peace in 1940 that recognizes German dominion over continental Europe, including the Vichy administration in France. Imaginable if Germany managed to decisively dominate Britain early on, for example by destroying the British forces at Dunkirk and waging a more successful air campaign. A demoralised Britain might turn away from European concerns and closer towards the US, forming an Atlantic partnership, as well as invest more into retaining it's colonies and strengthening the Commonwealth. Again, there would inevitably be a German-Soviet war, which could turn either into a single-front war if the Anglo-Americans commit to neutrality, or a restart of WW2.

3. Late Unilateral Peace
scenario 3.png


Germany forces Britain into a losing peace in 1942, and pushes the USSR behind the Urals where it possibly collapses into factional warlordism. Imaginable if the US does not enter the war and Germany is more successful both on the Eastern front and in demoralizing the British. Anglo-German rapprochement is less likely in this scenario - there would probably be a Cold War between the fascist and the Anglo-American blocks, with Germany funding fascist movements around the world (especially in Western colonies) and the UK/US funding partisans across Europe and the Russian rump state(s). I could see the German bloc eventually succumbing to economic problems and ideological conflict like the USSR, or potentially successfully liberalizing like China.
 
I haven't read through the whole thread and don't know if I'm being redundant bringing it up, but WWII isn't going far enough back.

The real answer is that earth would have been better had Germany won WWI, ideally in the initial 1914 Schlieffen Plan blitz. All the generation-destroying disillusionment brought about by years of trench warfare never occurs, WWII becomes a moot point, communism remains a kooky fringe concept spouted by an exiled sperg in Switzerland, the United States would have never had cause to get tangled up in foreign wars that were none of its business. All of it gets dumped on us because the Brits sperg out over an ancient treaty with an irrelevancy like Belgium.
 
These things are incredibly hard to predict. Certainly routing the Rothschilds and Hirschfeld institute would have had a very significant impact. It is conceivable that gender and transgender stuff would have a greater bulwark against it.

On the other hand, nothing accelerated this more than simple inventions like the pill and the washing machine. And the early vigour of social reform of any new rising power would in all likelyhood have stagnated and corrupted over the years, similar as that has happened in the US.

I think the meme of la resistance is the strongest misreading of the situation. If Germany had a decisive victory, resistance would be minimal, as with the state power and propaganda, they would be seen by the vast amount of people as noble liberators, and it's only in these kind of internet caches in the margins that autists would wax poetical about how all our problems would have been served if the noble russians had won and the perfidious germans had lost and the average person would gasp in anger and astoundment that anyone would hold such loathsome and hateful views.
 
I haven't read through the whole thread and don't know if I'm being redundant bringing it up, but WWII isn't going far enough back.

The real answer is that earth would have been better had Germany won WWI, ideally in the initial 1914 Schlieffen Plan blitz. All the generation-destroying disillusionment brought about by years of trench warfare never occurs, WWII becomes a moot point, communism remains a kooky fringe concept spouted by an exiled sperg in Switzerland, the United States would have never had cause to get tangled up in foreign wars that were none of its business. All of it gets dumped on us because the Brits sperg out over an ancient treaty with an irrelevancy like Belgium.
While I do think a different outcome to WW1 (or WW1 not happening in the first place) could hold potential for more positive outcomes in some regards, I have to disagree with the idea that it would cause Europe to remain in some orderly Bismarckian stasis.

WWII becomes a moot point
Not necessarily - while it would probably look very different from our WW2, it's more likely than not that another large European war would occur. Germany planned to use the Russian defeat and collapse to implement a system of German client states in Eastern Europe (and attempted to do so in the Brest-Litovsk treaty). If Russia manages to recover and become a significant power again, conflict over Eastern Europe is near inevitable. On the one hand, I could see Britain and maybe France taking Germany's side in such a conflict, making the war relatively one-sided and decisive, but I could also see the former Entente realigning to break Germany's political and economic dominance over the continent.

communism remains a kooky fringe concept spouted by an exiled sperg in Switzerland
Gonna assume you mean (Marxism-)Leninism here, because Communism/Socialism in the broader sense was already a thing all over Europe at that point, and would have inevitably become more influential in the 20s/30s as industrialization and capitalism advanced. While it's perfectly possible that leftists are kept from power in Europe through a mix of crackdowns and pacifying social democratic reforms, I don't think the absence of the USSR would necessarily weaken the left-wing labor movements, just make them more ideologically diverse since there's no "model state" to strive after. In the event of a financial crisis or recession similar to 1929, I could definitely imagine a Communist revolution taking place in a weakened country like France or Italy.

When it comes to Russia, while it would probably look quite different without Lenin, I think you would still end up with an authoritarian, populist, eager-to-modernize regime of some sort, though maybe a conservative, counter-revolutionary one, more resembling fascism than Leninism. Keeping in mind that the disapproval towards and fear of Communism was one of the main roadblocks in Western-Soviet relations, Britain and France would be much more likely to cooperate with a right-wing Russian government in keeping German power in check.

the United States would have never had cause to get tangled up in foreign wars that were none of its business
The US would inevitably be forced into global power games to some degree by virtue of being an industrial powerhouse. While I do agree that it probably wouldn't reach the "undisputed global superpower" status it did in our world (which also means the 50s/60s economic boom likely wouldn't happen), I don't think it could remain steadfastly neutral in the probable 'Cold War' between Germany and Britain. It also would likely come into proxy conflict with Germany over the Monroe doctrine - German-funded coup attempts in Latin America would almost certainly lead to US interventions. And with the German immigrant community retaining more of it's cultural identity, they would also be a powerful lobby group domestically.

That aside, America's more isolationist path in this scenario would also mean it would lose it's position in the "center of the world" and all the advantages that brings. It would not be the titan of science and technology it is in our world without the 30s-40s influx of European researchers, it would not be the hub of the world financial system, it would likely be somewhat less prosperous without the large middle class it managed to create in the post-war boom, and it would be more politically divided without the triumph of capitalist liberalism in the war and the unifying Soviet boogeyman.
 
Yes, it actually would. A national socialist victory would of prevented these things that interfere with our daily lives.

- Israel/Palestine Conflict
- Antarctic Treaty
- United Nations
- European Union
- More allied psychological warfare
- The Cold War
- War on Terror
- Mass Immigration
- Pandemic and Climate Lockdowns
- Great Recession
- Hyperinflation
- LGBT Indoctrination
- Social Credit System
- The Great Reset
- Deforestation
- People's Republic of China
- North Korea
- Rwandan Genocide
- Assassinations of people who present a new change or idea that interferes with Zionist control.
- Operation Paperclip
- NASA

Add on if Germany won World War I there would be no Great Depression and no Weimar Republic either.

Also, National Socialists also know how to get a country out of extreme hyperinflation too.
We also would have cured cancer, and Boogie2988 would be thin.

Depends how and when they win. My best guess is Brits peace out after Dunkirk and Soviets lose sometime in 1943. Germany never declares war on the USA and the Americans still go on to defeat Japan (sorry weebs there’s no way Japan wins)

It would be absolute dogshit for Europe. Firstly, the Axis would split up as it was more of an alliance of convenience. And with the absence of a common enemy there’d be no reason to keep the alliance. Any Axis member that’s not a German puppet or a colony would leave. Italy could possibly even have a rival sphere of influence.

The East would be a hellscape of constant genocide and partisan warfare. Tens of millions would starve and be worked to death when the Nazis put Generalplan Ost into action. The Nazis couldn’t even come close to pacifying Serbia and the Yugoslavs mostly liberated themselves. The entire Western USSR would be one giant Yugoslavia as any collaborators the Nazis managed to get on their side would turn on them at the first opportunity. The USSR doesn’t vanish as soon as the Nazis win and would continue supplying arms and partisans to the rebels. The Germans would sacrifice a significant portion of their military and economy just to pacifying the East.

I really don’t get this cope of “There would be no trannies or blacks!” especially by American NeetSocs. The Axis winning in Europe does not automatically make America Nazi.

It's because libs have framed it the opposite way for decades. WW2 was the victory of all that is progressive and tolerant against everything that is backward and bigoted. So a lot of people who realize a lot of the stuff libs say is "bad" is actually necessary for stable, healthy society just conclude that if the Nazis had won, we'd have all the things libs are destroying. They don't really ever question the original framing.
 
I have read through most if not all of this thread.

A few caveats. It is NOT true that Nazi Germany wanted to conquer the world. Nor did Germany, initially want war with the United States. Nor could she have ever conceptualized a scenario where she could conquer the United States or really even the Americas--no power could since the British Empire in the mid to late 19th Century. Some say USSR during the cold war by invading via a Polar Route but I am not entirely convinced.

On this matter I highly recommend Hitler, Churchill, and the Unnecessary War by Patrick Buchanan. The seminal right-winger debunks this myth, and the myth that Germany wanted to conquer the world in World War One as well.

Beyond that, some of have asserted that Germany could never have won the war. This is false. Great Britain was very closely to seeking appeasement during the War Cabinet Crisis, the position sponsored by Halfiax. The world and Great Britan would have been better had they done. As it now stands, both Great Britain and Europe, inlcuding Germany, are slated to die out because of Great Britain's lack of vision and foresight.

There is to this day speculation on whether Sea Lion was at all feasible. Manstein speculates in his memoirs it would be possible even without total air superiority. As opposed to barge landings, Kurt Student recommended a heavy airborne assault. I am not sure--all of that seems incredibly high risk, high reward, but both of those scenarios were assessed with Dunkirk as that played out. Had Germany properly destroyed the Dunkirk pocket, there is no question in my mind that the United Kingdom would have been forced to sue for peace. The reasons why Hitler allowed Dunkirk to play out as it did are hotly debated to this but, but I am convinced that his sympathy and admiration for the British as fellow Aryans was a key factor.

Had Britain properly sued for peace, the United States would not have entered the war until much later if at all. Lend lease, attacking German uboats without provocation in the Atlantic (See USS Reuben James incident), being neutral in name only explain much of why Hitler stupidly declared war on the United States without pacifying the Unitied Kingdom and the Soviet Union first. Without these provocations in play, I doubt he would have forged an alliance with Japan, stupidly counting on the Japanese to attack the Soviet Union in the East (which they never did).

As to whether the world would be better off had Nazi Germany won, it of course depends what the context is. Supposing a scenario where Great Britain sues for peace, war with the United States could have been likely avoided,. Americans did not want to enter the war, and Roosevelt used Pearl Harbor, as well as anti propaganda, to gin up support for a war that Americans originally did not want. Right-winger Devon Stack discusses this at length in his critique of the new Ken Burns documentary on the United States and the Holocaust.

I myself sympathize greatly with the German cause, greatly admire the Wehrmacht, the German war efffort on the whole, but am quite averse to Hitler, just in the way many of his generals were, not the way the ADL wants. I find the barbarism he espoused against white gentile Slavs beyond repugnant, and it is also one of the factors that led to Germany's catastrophic and utter defeat--had Germany treated the Russians kindly and invaded the USSR as liberators, Germany would have overtaken the USSR very quickly.

In his Third Reich trilogy series, Richard J Evans describes the Holocaust as the largest hostage crisis in the history of humanity, and asserts that Hitler did not envision genociding all of European Jewry until International Jewry upped the ante by getting the United States involved, and in his view, causing Great Britain to refuse appeasement. His rationale is persuasive, and I wonder from that if HItler would have been less barbaric to white slavic gentiles if Churchill, Roosevelt and friends did not have him cornered. I am not sure about that.

I am convinced that a majority of the German Armed Forces found barbaric treatment of Russians and other slavs repulsive, although some did actively partake in atrocities. In Tapping Hitler's Generals, there is an account of a Captain of a Hauptmann who killed a Russian villager in cold blood who was sitting across from him at a tavern, then killed his wife, then killed the family's baby. The whole platoon was in outrage, the commanding officer demanding a court martial and execution. The Captain maintained he was innocnet because Russians are not people A Fuehrerbefehl came down that he could not be charged for murder because Russians are not people, but was still punished on lesser crimes. Sonke Neitzel, the author, tries to use this and other anecdotes to indulge in German War Guilt, to buttress the argument about the "Clean Wehrmacht Myth" is a myth, but I see just the opposite. His whole unit and the commanding officer were outraged and wanted him executed.

I mention this because, had the war progressed better in a scenario where Barbarossa was fought in the context of a one front war, I believe there would even less appetite for that sort of barbarism.

The myriad deficiencies of Hitler, morally and in terms of military leadership, are a real problem, and it is probably why Europe and the West won't be able to save itself, which I believe would require ending democracy and turning to hard-right authoritarianism that is capable of expelling third world peoples, censoring and banishing pornography, tap music, etc.

In spite of that, I am just not convinced that the Allies way of doing things is right and good as the masses have been deluded into thinkinng. Terror bombing schemes killing milions of German civilians, colluding with the Red Army's reign of terror involving wholesale murder and rape of Germans in East Prussia and Silesia. Had Germany won, there would be no race mixing. There would be no popular culture that would embrace odious figures like the Karadashians, Katy Perry, Arianne Grande. No Coco-Cola, no McDonalds. No blacked.com. The boomer generation would not be utterly convinced by the leftist hippie bullshit that defines them.
 
Not a whole lot would really change. Most of the kikes responsible for what will eventually turn into the Frankfurt school that led to the rollout of Clown World were already in America. The idea that everything would be a hellscape is retarded Soviet-style permanent revolution. Europe had been ruled by various dynasties throughout its history and were not dystopian nightmares. Instead of the Habsburgs, it’d be the Hitlers. Much like how Khrushchev was not as bad as Stalin, whoever would take Hitler’s place in the 50s and 60s would likely care more Eventually it will just turn into yet another royal family that white women in America would fawn over. By the 70s and 80s, Jewish-run burger media would have been introduced, instead of the 50s and 60s.

Long story short, I think Nazis winning the war would delay the current shitshow by maybe a couple of decades. In order to fix society, it will requires the destruction of the United States, which there was zero chance that would have happened.
 
The real answer is that earth would have been better had Germany won WWI
No, the real answer is that someone should have shot Bismarck, before he could subsume the Germanies into a Prussian-dominated German Empire. It's always the Prussians causing problems.
 
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No, the real answer is that someone should have shot Bismarck, before he could subsume the Germanies into a Prussian-dominated German Empire. It's always the Prussians causing problems.
True. One advantage of Victoria 3 is forming Germany as Austria. Now that I've gotten that autism out of the way, kindly continue with the discussion.
 
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