Thoughts on Mormonism?

[Conan O'Barbarian]

You have to uncanonize most of the Bible to do the same.
Fags get the stone
The punishment for raping women is you have to pay their dad a fine and marry them
God blesses you for massacring people outside the tribe
Eat shrimp? FUCK YOU

Unfortunately, I do have to agree with the Scientology comparison, not for the reason you gave, but because they teach God's living out on a star named Kolob. It didn't sound so crazy back before we started sending rockets into outer space, taking all the mystery out of the heavens...

The New Testament did that already.

See, I never really get why people find it absurd besides just a bias for what we already know, and Smith himself is clearly a dirtbag, but this right here is it. They're just plain fascinating. It's a wonder how such strange events could play out in the American West, but you rarely see it depicted in the Hollywood version of American history.


Mormons often point to how they abandoned tobacco long before it was proven to be unhealthy as evidence for why sometimes it's best to just shut up and listen.

Makes you wonder why after millennia of choosing the pious and humble as his prophets, he suddenly decides to choose a "dirtbag" to proselytize his new Word.

 

[LolcowHunter3]

After I watched the South Park episode I thought, "This can't be real." I eventually fell down a rabbit hole and spent a summer reading every Wikipedia article on the subject, two biographies of Smith, the actual Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, and various other books both sympathetic and critical of Mormonism. It turns out the South Park episode is real.

The entirety of the movement is bat shit insane and the most engrossing topic I have ever studied in the field of history. I could go on for hours. Don't get me wrong, Mormonism is absurd and incorrect in every sense of the word, but everything about it is fascinating. Especially the founding and Smith himself, but their continuous persecution and travels west, plural marriage, Smith's obsession with Freemasons, his eventual martyrdom and their exile to Utah, the rise of the FLDS, and the shady workings of the modern church are also captivating.

Honestly I had a similar reaction to you LOL. Pretty hilarious considering that the creators of South Park, Trey Parker and Matt Stone, were so obsessed with Mormonism that they made a satire musical called "The Book of Mormon". Ironically enough, the church endorsed it (at least they have a sense of humor)

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

The New Testament did that already.

Makes you wonder why after millennia of choosing the pious and humble as his prophets, he suddenly decides to choose a "dirtbag" to proselytize his new Word.

LOL I'm not sure that I'd call Christian or Jewish leadership humble and pious. Most of those ancient Hebrew/Israelite leaders are basically warlords, with King David being an especially disgusting character. The Popes were pure human sewage, if we're counting them. And we only have an incomplete picture of what Jesus (who I do believe was a real person) and the Apostles were really like. Maybe if Jesus lived now he'd be feeding Kool-Aid to his followers in Guyana.

But, from the limited perspective I've got, Jesus does seem to have been a very different sort of person. Some prophets you read about, they could have been real, could have been crazy, but either way they seem benevolent and sincere. Jesus and the Buddha didn't seem to ever try to give themselves political power or riches. Muhammad and Smith did. Historical Jesus could have been the same crazy nutjob as all the "Jesuses" now, but have been a good person; I don't think a Smith could have been a good person.

Didn't think to mention it, but there's a perfect analogue for Joseph Smith in Hong Xiuquan, Taiping Rebellion, mid-1800s. Dude hangs out with missionaries, keeps trying and failing to pass his important exams. Has a mental breakdown, has visions, comes back as a prophet. Conquers half the country, but then gets too wrapped up in the pleasures of his harem and winds up losing. The prophet who goes to war to annihilate all Manchu subhumans and create the kingdom of heaven on Earth may have been lying if he just used his opportunity to fuck a bunch of women.

 

[Conan O'Barbarian]

LOL I'm not sure that I'd call Christian or Jewish leadership humble and pious. Most of those ancient Hebrew/Israelite leaders are basically warlords, with King David being an especially disgusting character. The Popes were pure human sewage, if we're counting them. And we only have an incomplete picture of what Jesus (who I do believe was a real person) and the Apostles were really like. Maybe if Jesus lived now he'd be feeding Kool-Aid to his followers in Guyana.

But, from the limited perspective I've got, Jesus does seem to have been a very different sort of person. Some prophets you read about, they could have been real, could have been crazy, but either way they seem benevolent and sincere. Jesus and the Buddha didn't seem to ever try to give themselves political power or riches. Muhammad and Smith did. Historical Jesus could have been the same crazy nutjob as all the "Jesuses" now, but have been a good person; I don't think a Smith could have been a good person.

Didn't think to mention it, but there's a perfect analogue for Joseph Smith in Hong Xiuquan, Taiping Rebellion, mid-1800s. Dude hangs out with missionaries, keeps trying and failing to pass his important exams. Has a mental breakdown, has visions, comes back as a prophet. Conquers half the country, but then gets too wrapped up in the pleasures of his harem and winds up losing. The prophet who goes to war to annihilate all Manchu subhumans and create the kingdom of heaven on Earth may have been lying if he just used his opportunity to fuck a bunch of women.

That entire diatribe could have been avoided if you'd noticed I said "prophets," not "leaders" or "apostles."

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

That entire diatribe could have been avoided if you'd noticed I said "prophets," not "leaders" or "apostles."

Fine, I guess the prophets were all good dudes then. I still think who God blesses as his supreme earthly dictator is a matter of concern. We've got a whole book in there of prayers from a dude who had a general killed off so he could screw his wife and sacrificed a ton of his people to avoid having to run from his enemies. David's a shitty person. In a similar vein, if your official theology (worth killing over) comes from some cleric, even if you're in some branch that doesn't recognize their eminence anymore, I'd consider it important that they not be doing things like this.

Banquet of Chestnuts - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ToroidalBoat]

There's the controversy and historical accuracy issues with LDS scriptures.

Also issues with taking the Bible too literally (like a literal Flood).

(and the sexual morals can be too prudish like thinking fapping is always a sin)

 

[Conan O'Barbarian]

Fine, I guess the prophets were all good dudes then. I still think who God blesses as his supreme earthly dictator is a matter of concern. We've got a whole book in there of prayers from a dude who had a general killed off so he could screw his wife and sacrificed a ton of his people to avoid having to run from his enemies. David's a shitty person. In a similar vein, if your official theology (worth killing over) comes from some cleric, even if you're in some branch that doesn't recognize their eminence anymore, I'd consider it important that they not be doing things like this.

Banquet of Chestnuts - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

God doesn't bless anyone to earthly rule, the Pope is chosen by mortal men who shelter pedophiles and userers.

Joseph Smith tried to have a former governor of Missouri killed to justify a vision he had that the governor would meet a violent end. It was surely only a coincidence that said governor had cracked down on polygamy and didn't appreciate Smith's people constantly getting into physical scuffles and fraud.

As to your last statement, I would agree. Your official theology shouldn't be coming from pedophiles and frauds like Joseph Smith.

You're spending an awful lot of time trying to justify Smith against people who lived during a time when histories were biased, and the Borgias are thought to have been lied about by most people who wrote about them. Even your source admits this.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

God doesn't bless anyone to earthly rule, the Pope is chosen by mortal men who shelter pedophiles and userers.

Joseph Smith tried to have a former governor of Missouri killed to justify a vision he had that the governor would meet a violent end. It was surely only a coincidence that said governor had cracked down on polygamy and didn't appreciate Smith's people constantly getting into physical scuffles and fraud.

As to your last statement, I would agree. Your official theology shouldn't be coming from pedophiles and frauds like Joseph Smith.

You're spending an awful lot of time trying to justify Smith against people who lived during a time when histories were biased, and the Borgias are thought to have been lied about by most people who wrote about them. Even your source admits this.

In my posts I called him a conman who made up his religion for sex and money and said they had it coming? I'm not justifying Smith as a person, I just said that I don't think the religion is much sillier than other religions, it just doesn't get the same deference as other religions because it's not old enough. Muhammad (who I think Smith is the most psychologically similar to of all the major religion founders) was an awful person and created an awful religion but people don't bag on Islam as a concept. And Islam and Judaism both make way more sense than Christianity. (If you're going to be monotheistic, you should actually be monotheistic; if you're going to be polytheistic you should be honest about it.)

 

[Bassomatic]

Mormons are into some weird stuff, but I haven't met one who isn't a good person, and honestly happy. When they come to spread the word (when I'm not posting here I'm not as big an asshole) they do so really amped, like the feeling of being saved is in them and they want you to join. Not like the catchocucks here who just want #s. They are like bro, let me tell you about god and its kick ass and they are really amped. I always offer them a snack and drink. I respect they have to share their thoughts but unlike other groups they are polite and feel filled. I've been in same area VERY far from Mormon land so it's not like I'm in a strong point.

I got not beef with em but I'm not converting or thinking their shit isn't weird. Also if god is real, he wouldn't tell me not to drink coffee or beer. That's the devils speak. (after a little rapport I do drop this joke and they all get a chuckle knowing it's out of respect)

 

[Conan O'Barbarian]

In my posts I called him a conman who made up his religion for sex and money and said they had it coming? I'm not justifying Smith as a person, I just said that I don't think the religion is much sillier than other religions, it just doesn't get the same deference as other religions because it's not old enough. Muhammad (who I think Smith is the most psychologically similar to of all the major religion founders) was an awful person and created an awful religion but people don't bag on Islam as a concept. And Islam and Judaism both make way more sense than Christianity. (If you're going to be monotheistic, you should actually be monotheistic; if you're going to be polytheistic you should be honest about it.)

Then for the most part we agree, but I disagree that Mormonism isn't sillier than older religions simply because we don't have clear evidence of their founders being L Ron Hubbard levels of debauched. I didn't read your first post because it was a novel. Your responses to my posts did seem like justifications though. Call it a wash.

People definitely bag on Islam, but it's un-PC and generally considered anti-brown person to do so, so it's not recognized as legitimate criticism. I would also disagree that Islam makes more sense than Christianity if I'm reading your analogy right. Mohammed is as revered in Islam as Jesus is to Christians, so if you're implying Jesus worship is polytheism then so is Islam. If you're referring to saints, then Catholicism is not all Christianity.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

Mormons are into some weird stuff, but I haven't met one who isn't a good person, and honestly happy.

At least they seem to be usually honest and modest, despite issues with the religion.

 

[tehpope]

I lived in utah for several years. Nice people. Love their thrift store. Probably the best period. Go so many good deals there, compared to goodwill et.al in Texas.

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

Then for the most part we agree, but I disagree that Mormonism isn't sillier than older religions simply because we don't have clear evidence of their founders being L Ron Hubbard levels of debauched. I didn't read your first post because it was a novel. Your responses to my posts did seem like justifications though. Call it a wash.

People definitely bag on Islam, but it's un-PC and generally considered anti-brown person to do so, so it's not recognized as legitimate criticism. I would also disagree that Islam makes more sense than Christianity if I'm reading your analogy right. Mohammed is as revered in Islam as Jesus is to Christians, so if you're implying Jesus worship is polytheism then so is Islam. If you're referring to saints, then Catholicism is not all Christianity.

Hey man, that's okay, I don't expect people to read that shit when I type up my 100,000 word essays.

With regards to Muhammad, he's revered, but he's not considered god, is more like Moses in terms of role. I just like the idea of pure monotheism, there's God and that's it.






By the way, to all you all mentioning Mormons being so nice, the American ones are pretty much all descendants of English or Scandinavians. Same reason they tend to be blonde. That niceness is probably the same niceness you get in Minnesota or Scandinavia.

 

[Moths]

I couldnt go out with a qt (didnt know she was religious before this) because she said dating a non-mormon was haram then her family quickly relocated away to a more 'suitable' location. So fuck em for cockblocking me I guess

 

[Ughubughughughughughghlug]

I'm Mormon- albeit a convert. I requested the missionaries to come visit my home (which I'm told is unusual- especially among young people) not too long after I had a psychotic breakdown that landed me in the hospital for a few days and temporarily unemployed not too long after I moved 4100 miles away from my parent's home and all my family for the first time. I was born and raised in the Russian Orthodox Church so I had a extensive understanding of Christianity already- but I left Christianity and became apostate (dabbling in occult/neo-pagan stuff) when I was about 19 years old until I became Mormon.

Mormons are utterly despised by the federal government, relentlessly ridiculed in the media, and subject to alot of stereotypes by the average joe... but the fact of the matter is when I read the Book of Mormon for the first time I saw something beautiful and divinely inspired.

My personal experience is that The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, it's teachings, and community have been nothing for a net positive for me (and even improved my health- I had some problems using alcohol as a "crutch" for mental health issues during my college years).

If someone had a very negative experience with the Church I'm not going to try to argue with them or think they're bad people- because it's their experience and I believe everybody should have the right to practice whatever religion they believe in in freedom and peace.

Also we're not really supposed to call ourselves "Mormons" anymore due to the orders of the current Prophet but it's alot less of a mouthful than "Members of the Church of Jesus-Christ of Latter-Day Saints" and it's what the vast majority of people know us as. There seems to be a big push by the church leadership in recent decades to try and "fit in/blend in" with mainstream Evangelical Protestantism in various different areas I could go into (one example is getting rid of the church symbol of the Angel Moroni blaring the trumpet and replacing it with Christ with his arms outstretched) but tbh I think this is a bad idea- some of the most psychopathic anti-mormon people are Evangelicals who want us all to become Baptists or something (this is where the "Banned Mormon Cartoon" comes from) and the church has such a unique and colorful religious tradition I think we should embrace alot of what makes us different.

Missed this thread.

Besides the Book of Mormon, what was it about the religion that appealed to you?

Has me thinking, though, when I joined them it was that I met them at a campus church fair and was doing the upset college freshman routine and all that, and an admiration of the culture already. And there were some things that happened; one day in sacrament I felt like I could taste blood in the sacramental water. On another occasion, feeling very distressed, I felt like God was there with sympathy. But, later on I came to notice that my dental hygiene was so bad I actually WAS bleeding from the gums, and when we had testimonies and people were talking about the warm glow they got from God, I said God felt like cold electricity to me and they looked at me like I had a second head. In hindsight, that should have been a warning sign, I just thought they were being narrowminded at the time but maybe it clearly wasn't God but something in my mind.

I knew a dude (convert around the same time as me) who had been investigating for over a year before he got baptized. Think they push people through too fast, and I went about it all backwards because I sort of saw it, decided to go for it... a shallow conversion where you think you believe at the time, but you don't really believe because it wears off too quick.

And yeah, they should tell Evangelicals to go to Hell, I like Evangelicals but the way they suck off Judaism and their deep ignorance of everything outside of Evangelicalism is an embarrassment.

 

[Bassomatic]

@The Dude is a all around stand up person and iirc mormon if not he is educated in them. Hope I didn't ping dox you bro. You've mentioned it hence in my head.

 

[BootlegPopeye]

Mormons are deceptive about their beliefs. Several decades of PR starting in the mid 20th century conned a lot of people into thinking that it was just a kind of wacky interpretation of the New testament. At one point, they used to scorn the term Christian for themselves but now like to hide behind it.

The goal of the latter Day saints is to ascend to godhood. So yes, Jeff flake mitt Romney and Glenn Beck all think they're going to get their own planets to rule over just like Elohim of Earth got his planet. At its root it's worship of man.

 

[Papa Pizzaria]

They're like scientologists but healthy, if that makes any sense.

 

[Papa Pizzaria]

(If you're going to be monotheistic, you should actually be monotheistic; if you're going to be polytheistic you should be honest about it.)

Why.

 

[Wormy]

They're like scientologists but healthy, if that makes any sense.

It does at least to me.