Community Trendy Pregnancy / Snowflake Mommas and Their Batshit Birthing Practices - Because hospital birth is sooo last season

Everything about this thread has made me 100% confident in getting my uterus removed.
I would ask you to seriously reconsider making any irreversible life decisions based on what you read on an internet forum. It would be truly unfortunate if I refreshed the browser one day and saw a quote on the homepage like "this thread convinced me to get a hysterectomy." Birth is like any other part of life; many things can go wrong, but so much can go right. Don't let fear rule your days on Earth.
 
These women make me legit MATI. The narcissism, the need for attention, it’s like those gypsy weddings but ramped up to 11 and with even less of a shit given about anyone else.

The first, last and 95% of every other part of giving birth should be about the health and safety of your baby. It’s not about you. You’re not the star in some hideous reality tv crossover of Disney and Big Brother. Your comfort mostly means shit (and I say this as someone who’s given birth four times), and if you think you can have a pain-free or even orgasmic birth I’ve a small moon to sell you. Sure, some positions make labour and birth easier, and yes, it’s nice to have warmth on your stomach and lower back during pain, but the safety of your baby ALWAYS comes first. Birthing into a pool full of water you’ve been wallowing in for hours, or worse still, the sea (I saw a video a few years back of a woman giving birth in a river cos oh so relaxing in nature) - wtf is anyone thinking? The amount of shit, bacteria, pollutants and god knows what else in that water, and these women want to drop their newborns in it? The absolute selfishness of these women, putting their fashion whims ahead of the health of their own children.

Hospital can be pretty impersonal, and yes, some medical staff can be twats, but if anything goes wrong those seconds where the doctors are busy getting to work on helping your child could save its life. That’s far more important than pretending to be a fucking mermaid. Besides, I guarantee once labour really kicks off, any mermaid cosplay will go straight out of the window as the pain gets unbearable. You’d be amazed how unbothered delivery room staff are at you cussing every single one of them out, repeatedly. I suspect sea creatures are rather less understanding of a bleeding, thrashing meat lump, defenceless in the ocean.

Just put your kid first, how hard can it be?
 
I was so horrified by this I attempted to google this story, and holy shit there are at least two stories that pop up. Granted, it's the Daily Mail and what looks like Daily Mail clones, but the fact that there are multiple stories like this is just......horrifying doesn't even begin to cover it.


I can see where this sort of thing would terrify young mothers and they'd want to stay out of the hospital, but whose to say the father - who has even LESS medical training than Dr Decapitation up there - wouldn't do the same thing? Is a baby's head/neck REALLY that easy to tear off?

I was just going to post that second link. That's fairly recent, local to me. I actually gave birth - with no issues, though the aftercare was shocking - to my first baby there in 2005. [/pl]
 
Those "target numbers" for c-sections are basically pulled out of an accountant's ass. If the NHS report has proven anything, it's that being slaves to numbers results in preventable injuries and deaths. Sure, they "saved" money in the short term, but they lost out on those peoples' future productivity down the line.

Basically, if you weren't there at that birth, you have no fucking idea if a c-section was "medically necessary" or not.

C-sections aren't de debbil. Bureaucrats with their fucking spreadsheets and power points in service of an ideological concept are.
C-sections are more expensive, NHS doesn't like paying for more expensive things that doesn't go into gender affirming care. They also do inhuman things like kicking partners/husbands out of the wards at night leaving a sleep deprived, woman alone with a screaming infant on an open ward, and refusing all forms of painkillers (no epidurals for you slut!).

There is a reason female OBGYNs (in the US) overwhelmingly choose to have C-sections be it, picking the date, known complications , that they tend to be older mothers, or fears of vaginal prolapse and continence issues.

People like Robin who point to places like the Netherlands where home births aren't that rare, or that dangerous leave out some important facts: no one can give birth at home that is far from the hospital, midwives are all licensed by the government and have more training than whatever woo BS is in vogue right now, an ambulance is waiting outside to take the laboring mother to the hospital if things go south, and no high risk births can be done at home.
 
I don't expect to convince you of anything, but I will add that your bit about drowning babies in water birth is pure horseshit. The umbilical cord takes care of the oxygen needs during birth. Don't believe me? Then pray tell, how does the baby breathe when still lodged in the birth canal? And yes, epidurals are bad because when you are paralyzed from the waist down, you can't move about. When you can't move about you tend to "fail to progress", and then, golly gee, we need to do a c-section. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
That’s a lot of confidence for not having read the part of the OP that addresses this:

The first thing you’re probably thinking after “what the fuck” is “wouldn’t that drown the baby?” The answer is: not necessarily. Much like the ever reliable pull-out method that got these dipshits pregnant in the first place, you are meant to exit the pool once your cervix is completely dilated. I want you to imagine for a moment trying to stand up and exit a pool of water while you are in your second stage of labor. I also want you to imagine even knowing that you are in your second stage of labor when this is your first time giving birth and you are unaccompanied by quality OBGYNs.
Some women just say "fuck it" and birth their babies straight into the water, citing that "babies have a dive reflex that will keep them from breathing until they're exposed to air." Certified Nurse Midwife Isabelle Guillou explains here in "Waterbirth Demystified" that "it is critical to know that severely low oxygen levels or high levels of carbon dioxide will trigger the gasp reflex before the baby has a chance to be brought out of the water and could result in water aspiration and drowning."
In other words, you have under ten seconds to bring that baby up to take a breathe before its oxygen levels cause it to gasp in the water and inhale water into the lungs. Going by your logic, you could easily make a mermaid by birthing into water and just never taking the baby out. Regarding the umbilical cord specifically, that cord is no longer attached to mom—the one providing the oxygen—after birth.

You almost have a point about epidurals, but for the wrong reasons. Epidurals don’t slow progress because you can’t easily move past your trunk. They can slow down progress because the decrease in oxytocin inhibits the mother from pushing as strongly. To combat this, doctors often start an IV line with pitocin which will help you to push, but you will miss the endorphins that result from prolonged oxytocin release.

“At the end of labor, however, there is a natural surge of catecholamines (stress hormone) that facilitates the quick birth of the baby, even in a tired mother.” —Judith A. Lothian, PhD (from the Journal of Perinatal Education.)

In other words, you’re right that epidural can slow the labor process, but you can’t just directly link that to the need for C-sections. C-sections happen for all sorts of different reasons, including in cases with minimal medical intervention.
 
Half true, the term birth trauma also relates to injuries and mental trauma suffered by the mother. Please believe me when I say I am not trying to start an argument with you, but you have unwittingly illustrated a point that comes up again and again in my field. That when it comes to birth, people largely only care about the baby and don't give a second thought about the mother. I can't tell you how many times I've heard the words, "You're depressed? Why? You gave birth to a healthy baby."
You’re totally right, my bad. I was referring only to the context of the baby’s PT and I overlooked that. The type of birth trauma you’re talking about is a big problem and imo is the biggest reason people are willing to risk their own and their child’s lives just for the sake of not going to a hospital. I think the way US handles birth kind of sucks and is the reason freebirthing started. In the video that introduced me to the idea- https://youtu.be/o0GRIRu0GaM all of the women involved had a previous hospital birth that they felt harmed by, and that’s pretty common in the Facebook groups too.
 
Just in case you didn't know, doulas DO need licenses to practice.
Here's what you need to be a doula in the US.

A business card and a website. No state "licenses" doulas. If one tells you they are "licensed", they are probably referring to a local business license, or some tax collecting certificate their state requires. Hell, they could be referring to their driver's license for all you know.

I could be one *right now* just by getting on Canva, designing a card, and passing them out.

Yep, that's literally all it takes. Some "birth professional", eh? Helluva scam if you can swing it, I guess.

And these are the laws about homebirth midwifery in the US.

Some states have made homebirth illegal. Considering the kind of train wrecks that states with much looser regulation have, I can see why. It's very rarely enforced, though, even when there is an adverse outcome or death. The mafia wishes they could enforce omerta like homebirth junkies do.

But even where it is legal, there are NO homebirth midwives in the US with the same training and expertise as a homebirth midwife in the Netherlands or any other part of Europe. They try to convince people that they are as highly trained, but.....hahahaha, no. Again, there's a few states where pretty much all you gotta do is print out business cards.

Midwives who practice in a hospital (CNM), are the equivalent of a European midwife. If you do manage to find one who does homebirths, you might want to find out why she's not practicing in a hospital. Could be more red flags than a North Korean military parade there.

Many states don't even require the homebirth midwives to carry insurance. So if something goes wrong - you and your kid are shit outta luck. Better hope that your own health insurance will cover the (usually) preventable hospitalization, or that your state will.

Oh, yeah, the ever popular "the dive reflex will keep your kid from drowning" BS.

The dive reflex kicks in when you are in COLD WATER. I doubt any of these airheads birfin' in a kiddie pool full of blood, piss and feces are tossing in sufficient ice to recreate the "Jack and Rose in the Titanic movie" scene to trigger that off properly.

IDK if any of you have heard of Young Living Oils, but their psycho founder and his wife had a baby daughter in his gym's jacuzzi a long time ago. The little girl was born healthy, but she drowned.

Yes, it happens.

The babies don't always get the memo that they are supposed to pretend to be mermaids and mermen in a wastewater treatment plant for mommy's 'gram before surfacing.
 
Putting this here because I thought it was somewhat relevant:

I just finished watching Season 2, Ep. 3 of Leah Remini’s “Scientology and the Aftermath.” Towards the beginning Liz Gale talks about the belief in Scientology that children in the womb subconsciously record everything bad that happens to the mother during pregnancy as an “ingram,” and that if a child begins acting out later down the line or suffers mental health/behavioral issues it’s the mother’s fault for “restimulating” the child.
I.e. if you suffered an assault or some form of trauma during your pregnancy, it is YOUR fault not only that it happened but that your child is now suffering immediate generational trauma. Because of you.

Pregnancy and the period shortly after has got to be the most vulnerable time in a woman’s life mentally, lots of big life changes and hormones and what have you. So when I see people (not just Scientologists) trying to sell their products/ideas by guilting anxious mothers and mothers-to-be, I can hardly think of anything more vile.
 
Here's what you need to be a doula in the US.
You got me there, an embarrassing gap in my knowledge. There are many certifications and trainings offered to Doulas, but most states do not require them. However, Doulas tend to be very passionate about their profession. You would have to be, considering it is very difficult to make a living at it. You could call it a labor of love, pun intended. Since they are passionate and driven, most seek training. Also for practical purposes, most mothers would want to have some provenance and see some credentials on their Doula before hiring. That's what groups like DONA and CAPPA are for. They would probably filter you out once you presented your canva card and nothing else. You can be critical of them, but make no mistake, they really do give a shit.
 
Putting this here because I thought it was somewhat relevant:

I just finished watching Season 2, Ep. 3 of Leah Remini’s “Scientology and the Aftermath.” Towards the beginning Liz Gale talks about the belief in Scientology that children in the womb subconsciously record everything bad that happens to the mother during pregnancy as an “ingram,” and that if a child begins acting out later down the line or suffers mental health/behavioral issues it’s the mother’s fault for “restimulating” the child.
I.e. if you suffered an assault or some form of trauma during your pregnancy, it is YOUR fault not only that it happened but that your child is now suffering immediate generational trauma. Because of you.

Pregnancy and the period shortly after has got to be the most vulnerable time in a woman’s life mentally, lots of big life changes and hormones and what have you. So when I see people (not just Scientologists) trying to sell their products/ideas by guilting anxious mothers and mothers-to-be, I can hardly think of anything more vile.
I just reread your post..I’ve never been a fan of Scientology as it is, but seriously fuck Scientology. Fuck L Ron Hubbard. Fuck Tom Cruise and anyone else who believes this bullshit.
 
I think I know the story you are talking about, I believe it was in India? Baby’s head was out of the birth canal, uterus ruptured, doctored pulled as uterus tried to suck the baby back leading to the baby being decapitated. Probably one of the worst birth stories I’d ever heard of-and a big reason women should not try VBAC. Not sure if this mom in particular had one big rupture is a huge risk of VBAC.
It's not "a story". It's not isolated. It happens a lot. An OB in Aberdeen did it and is still fecking practicing.
 
The last ever dolphin message was misinterpreted as a surprisingly sophisticated attempt to do a double backwards somersault through a hoop, whilst whistling the ‘Star-Spangled Banner’. But, in fact, the message was this: “So long and thanks for all the Placenta”.
 
Sigh. I don't really understand all this hoopla about designing the perfect, crunchy birth. It's just setting up women for more disappointment and feeling inadequacy. Like Birth Plans, HA.

"What, you didn't orgasm? You took DRUGS? I didn't take an aspirin! You had no doula or DOLPHIN?!? You didn't demand Dr. Crunchy Superstar?!? If you did X, like I did, you wouldn't have Y complication!!"*

A relative of mine fretted at the end of her premium pregnancy, over the possibility of cesarean or unpleasant procedures. I looked at her blankly, and reminded her this isn't an event designed for your entertainment. It's just how the baby gets here.

* on the other hand, this is how all motherhood is these days, so welcome, I guess
 
NHS doesn't like paying for more expensive things that doesn't go into gender affirming care.
I've always wondered if there's childfree straight women out there who have successfully claimed to be non-binary, trans, or even just a lesbian in order to get sterilization. Hell, you can buy a surgery referral document online from a real doctor to get whatever "gender affirming" surgery you ask them for. In the US, most insurance covers it 100% and some companies even have a reimbursement for things like fillers and facial implants to change your face if you claim to be trans or non-binary.

What about pregnant TIFs? Can they claim vaginal birth is trauma and get a c-section as gender affirming care?
 
There was a period where "modern medicine" was so destructive and intertwined with mysticism that is has caused mass hysteria and distrust of hospitals for generations. Of course the insane treatments of then "modern medicine" are the "natural" or "mystic" alternative medicines of today. And modern medicine has progressed massively.
For anyone interested in a really great book about this subject, read Charlatan by Pope Brock.
 
More birthing bullshittery from Naked Doula. According to the University of Emma’s Imagination, lying on your back to give birth is actually bad for you because gravity exists! Too bad those lousy no-good doctors didn’t factor that one in. Also, as it turns out deep breathing works just the same as pushing.
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Here’s a real big brain moment from Emma where she claims that clutching a comb during labor will distract you from the pain because, and I shit you not, “the brain can only focus on one sensation at a time.” Kiwis who have given birth, I will award you a million kiwicoins if you can make it through this without laughing:
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Emma also liked to post her supposed testimonials, all of which are even more insane than her. First we have a “rebirthing” experience which appears to be more of an delirious episode but that’s just medical jargon & negative vibes. The second claims that Emma’s techniques ~totally worked~ despite being in labor for F O U R D A Y S (y’know, ‘cause you don’t need to push) and having an involuntary C-section after the doctors presumably refused to have any more of her insanity.
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As expected, it’s never about the children. It’s about the mothers and their luxury spa experience. Fuck these loony sows and their essential oils.
 
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More birthing bullshittery from Naked Doula. According to the University of Emma’s Imagination, lying on your back to give birth is actually bad for you because gravity exists! Too bad those lousy no-good doctors didn’t factor that one in. Also, as it turns out deep breathing works just the same as pushing.
Here’s a real big brain moment from Emma where she claims that clutching a comb during labor will distract you from the pain because, and I shit you not, “the brain can only focus on one sensation at a time.” Kiwis who have given birth, I will award you a million kiwicoins if you can make it through this without laughing:
Emma also liked to post her supposed testimonials, all of which are even more insane than her. First we have a “rebirthing” experience which appears to be more of an delirious episode but that’s just medical jargon & negative vibes. The second claims that Emma’s techniques ~totally worked~ despite being in labor for F O U R D A Y S (y’know, ‘cause you don’t need to push) and having an involuntary C-section after the doctors presumably refused to have any more of her insanity.
As expected, it’s never about the children. It’s about the mothers and their luxury spa experience. Fuck these loony sows and their essential oils.
The comb and rebirthing are obviously pseudoscience, but lithotomy is statistically the worst birthing position.

The rate of nearly every labor complication is significantly higher in that position, and it lengthens labor by narrowing the birth canal and fighting gravity. The position was invented to aid classical era surgeons in cutting open your perineum (without anesthesia) to remove bladder stones, and today it's pushed by MDs because it makes their lives easier, but it sucks by every other measure.
 
More birthing bullshittery from Naked Doula.
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And there you have the real issue of control freakiness in that last mangled sentence:

You can still keep have control and that makes all the difference.

Also note in the middle of the screed: she BOSSED it. That doctor wasn't in charge! Strapped in and anesthetized, she was the boss!

You negative Nancys with your tales of placental abruptions, hypertension and eclampsia! No, you are TOTALLY in control. Make sure the aromatherapy and soundtrack is perfect BEFORE you pass/stroke out.
 
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More birthing bullshittery from Naked Doula. According to the University of Emma’s Imagination, lying on your back to give birth is actually bad for you because gravity exists! Too bad those lousy no-good doctors didn’t factor that one in. Also, as it turns out deep breathing works just the same as pushing.
Here’s a real big brain moment from Emma where she claims that clutching a comb during labor will distract you from the pain because, and I shit you not, “the brain can only focus on one sensation at a time.” Kiwis who have given birth, I will award you a million kiwicoins if you can make it through this without laughing:
Emma also liked to post her supposed testimonials, all of which are even more insane than her. First we have a “rebirthing” experience which appears to be more of an delirious episode but that’s just medical jargon & negative vibes. The second claims that Emma’s techniques ~totally worked~ despite being in labor for F O U R D A Y S (y’know, ‘cause you don’t need to push) and having an involuntary C-section after the doctors presumably refused to have any more of her insanity.
As expected, it’s never about the children. It’s about the mothers and their luxury spa experience. Fuck these loony sows and their essential oils.
She doesn't know the difference between your and you're, but thinks she's a birthing expert?
 
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