Trolling Ethics Debate Thread

[Tonebender]

I don't really care what people do to Chris, but there's one aspect of this recent saga that someone mentioned in a previous thread that's worth repeating.
Thetan's impersonations were not fair to the people she was impersonating. Mimms, Megan, the gal pals don't want anything to do with Chris anymore, and Thetan dragged them back into it. It's one thing if they were other cows like ADF or whatever, but these people don't have "internet" personalities.

 

[DykesDykesChina]

I actually think the most lulzy things to come out of the CWC mythology were the ones he initiated himself, without troll encouragement.

Apart from that, I think the ethics of trolling can only be treated on a case-to-case basis. Most would agree that the Bluespike Saga went to far. Also "military grade" (as Null put it) spying on Chris's private life probably goes to far and borders on the illegal.

But feeding him a little impulse here and there to do something lulzy? Such as Jackie encouraging Tomgirlification (after Chris came up with it himself)? I'd be hard pushed to not find it amusing. I think the general rules of thumb should be:

* Encouraging activities which Chris started himself and will most likely produce a surreal result? (Example: Tomgirl) Well, still in the gray area from a moralspergy perspective, but... lulzy.

* Making up a completely unrealistic story in which Chris is the star somehow and observe his reaction? (Example: Clyde Cash) Hell yeah.

* Risking Chris coming to physical harm, urging him to do dangerous things, going to extremes to find out about his private life? (Examples: Bluespike and probably recent trolling activities around Catherine et al.) No!

That said, I also think that the Ohio trip, while dangerous, actually did something good to Chris, because he got out of his house, got to see a part of the world, and in fact (as he later said) enjoyed it himself.

 

[timtommy]

My thoughts:

Any consideration of the morality of trolling requires careful thought about the counterfactual: What would Chris life be like without the trolling?

It is a really hard question to answer, because the trolling has been so pervasive. But I will have a stab at it by looking at the biggest "problems" Chris has:

Unemployment: Chris doesn't seem cut out for the work force. When the trolling started he was in his mid-twenties and his working career consisted of a month or two at Wendy's and a halfassed participant in a knife-selling pyramid scheme. Has the trolling prevented him from becoming a productive member of society? Probably not. I think one could argue that trolling made the dream of selling Sonichu move more to the front of his mind. Also, he seems to use his internet reputation as an excuse to get out of applying for jobs. But those are fairly minor. I think it is possible he might have had one seasonal stint at Walmart or something, but it didn't prevent his career from launching.

Financial: Trolling cost Chris some money. He broke his PS3, drove to Ohio, probably a couple other things I am forgetting. But the post-house fire donation and eBay sales have more than made up for it.

Loneliness: Chris was an awkward lonely guy before the trolling. No matter what, he wasn't going to stop being an awkward lonely guy, and he wasn't going to have a serious relationship. But I still think the greatest potential harm came here. For one thing, he kept thinking he had found a sweetheart/supportive friends, and they kept being taken away. In this case it is almost stopping trolling that is the most cruel. For the rest of us, stopping trolling means withdrawing all of these fake personas lying to Chris. From Chris' perspective it is all of his friends walking away from him. I think it is also possible that if he were not able to surround himself with troll friends, loneliness may have driven him to find other people somewhere.

 

[Blue Max]

Chris has always had free will with the trolls. No one has ever held a gun to his head and demanded that he act a certain way.

At its most basic level, his terrible choices have been his own.
Remember 10/28/11? Chris tried this same thing in June 2010--Alec Benson Leary broke the news to his family. The Trolls tried to stop it.
The Father Call? Someone needs to at least TELL Chris what he needs to know, as opposed to what he wants to hear.
The Virgin With Rage business? Trolls solved his Lovequest.
And now, with 14 Branchland badly damaged by fire, who does Chris have in their world to help him? The Trolls.

I don't defend Chris being told to shove things up his Ass--but its also Chris shoving things up his ass, not the trolls doing it to him. If there was no trolling, the specifics would change, the details would remain the same. Chris would be an autistic man-child unable to live a normal life in a pile of garbage. Sure, 10/28/11 could be different, and no troll LGBT support might mean that he's not involved in that community nor so willing to go Tomgirl--but Chris would be a failure with one less victory (the dubious Sonichu series would be forgotten).

The Trolls are the best things Chris has in his life and his only hope of a better life--as opposed to Prison, Homelessness or even early death.
And yes, if Chris were a normal person, Trolling with him would serve no positive purpose, but that's not the case and never will be.

 

[BigAltheGreat921]

I'm fairly neutral when it comes to the morality of trolling. But I agree with everyone else that what Bluespike did to Chris crossed the line. That was just repulsive. And the fact that the gal-pal emails which revealed that they weren't really Chris' friends were completely fake. These women want nothing to do with Chris anymore and internet try-hards stealing their identities is just wrong.

 

[Marvin]

Catie and recent troll attempts weren't that funny. There was interesting info but I was less than impressed with the overall results.

However, I want to point out that those troll attempts were entered in with good intentions and obviously no one foresaw how it'd turn out. Something to keep in mind is that there's no overlap with malicious weens and successful trolls. Successful trolls might end up with shitty results, but they don't go into trolling with shitty intentions.

I think it's very hard to determine to what extent Chris' current mood is a result of being dumped or his godawful living situation. Maybe a little of column A, a little of column B?

For the foreseeable future, I think it's obvious nothing will come of new troll attempts. I don't know, maybe if someone came up with some brilliant idea? But I don't know, I can't think of anything.

I think we're just going to end up watching the probably botched migration back into 14BC from the sidelines.

* Risking Chris coming to physical harm, urging him to do dangerous things, going to extremes to find out about his private life? (Examples: Bluespike and probably recent trolling activities around Catherine et al.) No!

Hmm?

 

[Francis York Morgan]

I think we're just going to end up watching the probably botched migration back into 14BC from the sidelines.

If Catherine and Thetan didn't get through to him, the 14BC relocation won't be the only "botched migration" witnessed this winter.

 

[HG 400]

For the foreseeable future, I think it's obvious nothing will come of new troll attempts. I don't know, maybe if someone came up with some brilliant idea? But I don't know, I can't think of anything.

Maybe we could dig up his dead dog?

 

[The I Scream Man]

Maybe we could dig up his dead dog?

This is why you're my boy blue.

Still mad at you for sniping me at the beginning of this thread though.

 

[The Knife's Husbando]

Trolling is an art. And one of the consummate traits of a good artist is knowing when to stop.

 

[jemas42]

If Catherine and Thetan didn't get through to him, the 14BC relocation won't be the only "botched migration" witnessed this winter.

Yes, that was an image I needed during lunch thank you.

 

[P-Logic]

However, I want to point out that those troll attempts were entered in with good intentions

I don't doubt that Thetan had good intentions in part. Her attitude seemed to be "I can help Chris, and also have a bit of fun at his expense at the same time." The problem is that these two motives are pretty incompatible. For example, it's very admirable to encourage Chris to get out of the house and try to make some friends, but when you are simultaneously encouraging him to "embrace his feminine side" by dressing up in a grotesque way because you think it's funny, then you're negating the good effect of him getting out of the house. He's just going out of the house to be humiliated for the amusement of a troll, even though they had some good intentions at heart.

 

[Coldgrip]

I'm just going to make this simple: Unless it causes Chris direct harm or violates his legal rights I honestly don't care.

Want to pretend to be a girlfriend? Sure go for it. That kinda of weenish and really what can you get him to do that he hasn't already done, but by this point he should know better then to believe that women will just throw themselves at him.

Dig through his garbage and post his high school papers? That's kind of creepy and a bit stalkerish but I also remember people talking about and hoping that one day somebody would get a hold of the autism papers (which might I add were locked away in his house so somebody would of had to commit B&E in order to obtain them).

But if you're really set on getting trolls to apologize I suggest people start with the one doing the most damage to Chris right now: Barb. She's actually bullies him, causes him to actually fear her, and threatens violence if he doesn't comply with her demands. If any person here pulled the same stuff can you imagine the shitstorm that would follow?

 

[Cotton Puddings]

when you are simultaneously encouraging him to "embrace his feminine side" by dressing up in a grotesque way because you think it's funny, then you're negating the good effect of him getting out of the house.

a troll said he should embrace his feminine side and he took that to mean he needs to be a full-blown tranny. that shit was all him, 100%. nobody forced him to wear skirts for four years

 

[Marvin]

But if you're really set on getting trolls to apologize I suggest people start with the one doing the most damage to Chris right now: Barb. She's actually bullies him, causes him to actually fear her, and threatens violence if he doesn't comply with her demands. If any person here pulled the same stuff can you imagine the shitstorm that would follow?

This, although I would like to point out that Barb doesn't explicitly threaten violence. She does, however, try to physically intimidate Chris by throwing shit around and wrecking things.

Barb's a garbage person.

Edit: Like, for example, she'd smash Chris' DS with a hammer if she felt she needed to, things like that.

 

[P-Logic]

But if you're really set on getting trolls to apologize I suggest people start with the one doing the most damage to Chris right now: Barb.

I totally agree. Barb has damaged Chris more than all of the trolls put together, and then some.

a troll said he should embrace his feminine side and he took that to mean he needs to be a full-blown tranny. nobody forced him to wear skirts for four years

This is true. No one forced Chris to do anything, and the tranny thing was his idea. But Thetan said explicitly that encouraging him to humiliate himself further like that was the sadistic part of her schtick.

 

[Thetan]

a troll said he should embrace his feminine side and he took that to mean he needs to be a full-blown tranny. that shit was all him, 100%. nobody forced him to wear skirts for four years

This is absolutely correct. The "grotesque outfits" were entirely of Chris's choosing. Renee simply advised him to take better care of his skin and hair and to not try and "force" friendships. She tried to, in a sense, set him up for success, but we all know how things turned out.

I don't remember who it was who originally told Chris to embrace his feminine side, but it was awhile ago. This tomgirl thing is what, two years old now, maybe three?

For the record, I never put Chris in a position to humiliate himself. People who have seen the unreleased content can attest to this.

 

[Null]

I cannot see any trolling plans anymore. Chris will continue to simmer in his bubble, occasionally ranting about weird stuff, for a long while. There'll be little spikes in the crazy, but his state of disillusionment with his Sonichu fans means he cannot be coaxed into doing something. The Catherine stuff shows that even the most ambitious of efforts yield few results now. The only thing left to do is to let him fizzle out. I would encourage everyone to check out our other boards and integrate themselves to different facets of the community, because the Chris area is a sinking ship. I've made it obvious, with no uncertain terms, that my goal is to currently improve the off-topic and general lolcow areas of the board so that when Chris crashes into slumber again, there's something left for people.

My limitations are as follows:
1) Do not break the law. (i.e. Gamerfood SWATing, credit card fraud, wiretapping)
2) Do not spend money to cause grief. (i.e. SpacePirate's gay porn commission)
3) Do not make it about you. (i.e. Coty Smith)
4) Always meet the effort to reward ratio.

If you do something legal, cheap, entertaining, and effortless, you win.


P-Logic, I'm getting worn out by this. You've broken Rule #4 here. I see you trying to basically troll these Chris people. You think it's funny ABL is in a wheelchair or something. You want to expose the trolls for being bad guys. The problem with that is you've sort-of pissed everyone off by being so confrontational. You've admitted to being here for the sake of causing problems. Like, the problem with trying to troll ABL and Marvin is that nobody is going to ever care or support it because people like them. They're both really nice to the community. You've alienated just about everyone by constantly making threads about you and your problems with what has transpired. It's in creeper territory now, and I find the criticisms of Skyraider holding very little weight when you're breathing down Marvin's neck.

You've admitted that you understand nobody had poor intentions. People like Coty have been cast out of the board. There's no active trolling plans. The private discussion is all but completely transparent. There's literally nothing else the community can do to appease you, besides draw and quarter two people that everyone likes. You're fighting an uphill battle for no reason other than to enjoy the shitflinging.

 

[P-Logic]

For the record, I never put Chris in a position to humiliate himself. People who have seen the unreleased content can attest to this.

I was referring to a post you made before when you were discussing this. You said that you "got a kick out of encouraging him to flirt the skirt" or words to that effect. What is that if it isn't encouraging him to humiliate himself?

I'm sure you genuinely did want to help Chris, but this wasn't altruism. The idea was that you'd help him, but he'd pay you back in laughs at his expense. That doesn't work.

 

[Ruin]

You're pretty dense aren't you?