Trolling Ethics Debate Thread

[Coldgrip]

No, Renee never tried to get Chris to humiliate himself (and she never will). I just don't want to go that route.

Renee was always meant to be a sort of voice of reason. I don't mind giving him advice on his personal hygiene / grooming, or improving his social skills, but that's as far as I'm willing to go.

Then you've gone as far as you could go. You've given Chris good advice (like removing the piercing) and he ignored you. At this point I'd say just walk away.

 

[BOLDYSPICY!]

". . .teach me to become sex positive & all that we talked about before?"

As usual, Chris has clung to one minor detail & the rest of "Renee's" good advice has gone sailing over his head, to the point where he can't even come up with an example of anything else she discussed with him. Classic Chris.

Your heart's in the right place, @Thetan , but maybe it's time to respond & flat-out tell Chris you're a troll. The worst he can do is not believe you & keep spamming you with texts. But at least you can't say you didn't try. If he wants to keep living the delusion after you've 'fessed up, then that's his prerogative.

 

[Zim]

Chris already is a model. He's the poster (man)child of lolcows and how to make horrible life choices. It comes with all the internet fame he could handle.

@Thetan It might be good for him to have some sort of voice of reason but everyone knows unless it's candy coated ass pats he's not going to listen to anything that doesn't fit into what he really wants to do.

 

[jemas42]

Seriously it took me forever to stop laughing when I read that.

And @Thetan as anyone who's been paying attention to my posts (IE no one) will know, I've been pretty much in favor of "Maintain radio silence," but after these last two...sweet Emperor, I think you need to tell him. You're risking undoing the good you did, but I don't know how much Chris absorbed anyway.

(Plus there's a solid chance he'd just ignore it/assume it's a troll sending that message but the real Renee is still out there).

 

[Tubular Monkey]

I say ignore him. Make him look elsewhere for human contact. Even acknowledging him at this point would just encourage him to try to get her attention. Just cut him off.

 

[Cuck Norris]

Just when I think it's time to tell Chris the truth, he produces some serious gems. I say stay quiet and see how far this goes.

 

[A-№1]

Renee should probably just say, once, "Please stop texting me Chris, I am a troll."

I suspect Chris would interpret that message as: "Stop texting Renee. From the troll who hacked her account."

If the objective is to get Chris to recognize the reality behind "Renee", I don't see it being very successful in the face of Chris' wilful obliviousness. It will take much more than a single text message for that. However if the objective is to give Chris absolutely no excuses for persisting in his self delusion about "Renee", well then by all means send it to him.

 

[Alec Benson Leary]

I say continue ignoring him. 18 months from now, we compile all the texts into a book and sell it at that weird discount aisle at barns and noble.

 

[Atlas 95]

Going to agree with the "continue ignoring him" consensus
Chris probably won't believe a confession that Thetan is a troll at this point anyway, he'll just claim its a troll trying to split them up or something

 

[Taily Puff]

For whatever it's worth Thetan, my vote is for continued silence.

You stopped responding to him a long, long time ago. He's seen you posting on this forum saying that you were Renee all along and leaking his texts. And he's still texting you because he prefers to believe that Renee is a real potential sweetheart.

Responding to him at all is just going to be poking into a mess with nothing to gain. You won't be teaching him anything he shouldn't already know a dozen times over. He'll resist anything you say that isn't what he wants to hear. So at this point, it's more of an experiment than anything else. We're learning just how little other people matter to him. He really doesn't even see other people as real, and the longer this goes the more that gets confirmed.

Just how long will Chris keep talking to an empty account of a former troll if it doesn't hurt him? Apparently indefinitely, because unless you were saying what he already wanted to hear, your response never really mattered in the first place.

 

[Picklechu]

I'd recommend the continued silence route. We've all seen what happens (Megan, Wallflower) when a girl tells him they want nothing to do with him anymore--he sees their response, even if it's negative, as a positive ("Dey're talkin' to me!") response to his behavior.

Chris as a model...

Well, there's an audience for everything on the web, no matter how bizarre.

True. He could be a camwhore. All kinds of creepy old men would pay for that.

Craigslist is full of modeling opportunities. It'd serve those creepers posting there right for trying to take advantage of naive women wanting to get their big break.

This would be beautiful. I doubt Chris would go, though, plus he'd probably just end up robbed or beaten up.

 

[Good Soothing Coffee]

I'm thinking about answering him, and posting the conversations here. Maybe this way, it will sink in that Renee is a troll.

Or you could save him some drama and further emotional involvement by telling him you are. I really think the sweetheart/gal pal trolling should stop, he's been broken at least since stopping the comic and certainly after Bob died. It's just not ok to keep getting his hopes up for the sake of content.

I only speak for myself when I say that I don't enjoy the sweetheart sagas because he just doesn't learn and keeps getting invested and broken from them. But I think it's time to just let that all go, it's cruel at this point.

 

[Datiko]

I'm thinking about answering him, and posting the conversations here. Maybe this way, it will sink in that Renee is a troll.

I should have been more clear. I'm ***thinking*** about this. I want to know what other people think.

Part of me thinks Chris needs to know, but just telling him outright doesn't seem like the way to go.

You should do something. Chris believes your persona is a real person. Continuing to string him on and posting what amounts to his desperate attempts for meaningful human contact is ethically the same as chatting with him and posting the full conversation. Either continue to talk to him and leak everything or tell him flat out that he has yet again been fooled. If you have a problem with doing either, consider handing off the persona to somebody else.

 

[A-№1]

consider handing off the persona to somebody else.

Thetan already handed the persona off. To a fence post. For some months the fence post, being a mere fence post, has failed to return any of Chris' messages or attempted to communicate with Chris in any manner whatsoever, but Chris, being well… Chris, remains optimistic.

 

[Datiko]

Thetan already handed the persona off. To a fence post. For some months the fence post, being a mere fence post, has failed to return any of Chris' messages or attempted to communicate with Chris in any manner whatsoever, but Chris, being well… Chris, remains optimistic.

Yes, Chris is a lonely mentally ill man who is clinging to an illusion because the alternative is a cold painful truth. Hence why I don't see a moral difference between posting his attempts to contact the persona or continued interaction. The former seems more strange to me since its been surrounded by discussion as to the ethics and motivations of why it was done, and the latter seems childish because it was justified as "Oh I'll keep doing it and posting here so eventually he figures it out". I don't mind people trolling Chris since I love the content, but don't try to take the moral high ground or any justification beyond "Chris's reactions to external stimuli are interesting".

Thetan has made it clear that they no longer wish to be involved with the persona yet continues to check for incoming messages and post content. If she really wants out then she should directly confront Chris by at least trying to tell him the truth. Chris can't be made to accept the truth but it would be an attempt to humanely end the performance instead of dragging it out.

 

[SnergenFlergen]

Or you could save him some drama and further emotional involvement by telling him you are.

At this point, Thetan could literally march around in Chris's front garden wearing a sandwich board that reads 'I AM RENEE AND I AM A TROLL' and Chris wouldn't believe it. If Chris hears something that he either doesn't agree with or simply doesn't want to hear, it is trolling and therefore slanderous lies.

I really think the sweetheart/gal pal trolling should stop, he's been broken at least since stopping the comic and certainly after Bob died. It's just not ok to keep getting his hopes up for the sake of content.

Chris has never been 'broken' by a sweetheart. When Kacey dumped him, he pretended to cry on camera and had moved on within 24 hours. When PandaHalo had apparently died in the Aussie Bushfires, he had moved on before even getting confirmation of her death. When BlueSpike put him through a miserable and humiliating hour of torment that culminated in him revealing himself as the girl that Chris purported to love, Chris had again moved on within days. Chris has never been hurt by a girl that he loves because he has never been in love, and doesn't know the meaning of the word. To Chris, 'love' is just the feeling of hope and shallow infatuation he gets whenever a nubile female crosses his path that he hopes he can one day screw. Perhaps it's just what he thinks women want to hear. This has been demonstrated time and time again. The only pain that Chris claims to experience does not stem from the collapse of a loving, mutual and long-standing relationship, but rather from being denied a place to incubate his genitals.

If you extrapolate this, then it becomes clear, I dare say painfully obvious, that if Chris accepts that Catherine and Renee were trolls, He'd be upset for moments, before looking elsewhere. He has never loved any of these girls: He has only loved the idea of them. And that's a very important distinction.

I only speak for myself when I say that I don't enjoy the sweetheart sagas because he just doesn't learn and keeps getting invested and broken from them.

If a person touches their hand to a hot stove and burns their fingers, but then keeps touching the stove repeatedly afterwards in spite of the pain as well as protests from onlookers, do you blame the stove for being hot? or do you blame the dumbass that never learns a lesson or listens to advice?

 

[A-№1]

Yes, Chris is a lonely mentally ill man who is clinging to an illusion because the alternative is a cold painful truth.

Creating delusions to avoid facing cold, painful truths is what Chris does. It's probably his sole real talent (if it can be called that). Chris will continue to do so no matter what anyone else does or doesn't do.

As far as him being lonely, that's largely irrelevant to his one sided attempts to contact "Renee". Have you actually read the messages he has sent her? He's asked for help getting laid, free hoard storage space, free womb rental, now help becoming a high paid model, and so on and on. Those aren't messages of loneliness desiring mere companionship, they're selfish requests to be provided gratis valuable services. Chris isn't interested in being with "Renee" nearly so much as he is interested in the things he believes she can do for him.

I don't mind people trolling Chris since I love the content, but don't try to take the moral high ground or any justification beyond "Chris's reactions to external stimuli are interesting".

And now we're seeing how Chris reacts to no stimuli.

Also, "Moral high ground"? Seriously? Morality's got nothing to do with it. There's a reason why I've not bothered with the ethics thread: one man's immorality is another man's hobby. (Edit: I've stayed the fuck out of the ethics thread until ungentlemanly forced into it.) If anything, Thetan's continued non-contact is far more ethically neutral than just about any other method I've seen so far for getting content out of Chris. Really, this is almost Christorianism at it's most pure. Like any other wildlife documentarian, Thetan's recent use of "Renee" is engaged in a policy of observation and documentation without interference (after the initial setup of environmental enrichment).

Thetan has made it clear that they no longer wish to be involved with the persona yet continues to check for incoming messages and post content.

I think you're a little confused there. I don't claim to speak for Thetan, but what I believe she said was she is not longer interested in interacting with Chris as "Renee". Note the "inter" part of "interacting". That is not the same thing as no longer being interested in whatever Chris persists in doing towards that persona in the face of compete silence. She may have expressed the possibility of abandoning "Renee" entirely, but clearly has not yet wished to do so, because otherwise this thread would not exist.

Chris can't be made to accept the truth but it would be an attempt to humanely end the performance instead of dragging it out.

What "performance"? Completely failing to interact with Chris in any way whatsoever is no more a "performance" than "not collecting stamps" is a hobby.

There might be a small case to be made that Thetan is using "Renee" to perform a good impression of a woman who wants nothing to do any more with a pestering, demanding man. Women do that to men (and vice versa) all the time, all over the world. And if the man is particularly odd in his persistence, they often share his unrequited messages with their friends. Why should Chris be any different, get any special treatment, just because he's Chris? More importantly, the end results of this sort of minimalist "performance", if that is what it is, and mere observation and documentation, are functionally identical.

 

[Tragi-Chan]

What we now know is that Chris has constructed a full-on delusional reality where he's pre-empted anything Thetan says with "Aha! Troll!" It's quite clever, in an insane way, because it means he never has to deal with anything he doesn't want to hear. Even a full-on confession with reams of documentation and carefully-reasoned arguments will be dismissed with a message saying "Ha ha, nice try, trolls! But you can't fool me! By the way, Renee, I just got an engagement ring for us, what's the best way to get it to you?"
Basically, I say maintain silence. Maybe he'll interpret it as trolls blocking him, or maybe he'll figure out for himself that Renee really was a troll, or maybe (rainbows on standby) he'll realise that sending unsolicited photos of his balls is a creepy thing to do and behave better in future. But when he can interpret any response as confirmation of his deranged reality, no response is the only sensible way to react.

 

[Good Soothing Coffee]

At this point, Thetan could literally march around in Chris's front garden wearing a sandwich board that reads 'I AM RENEE AND I AM A TROLL' and Chris wouldn't believe it. If Chris hears something that he either doesn't agree with or simply doesn't want to hear, it is trolling and therefore slanderous lies.

It's entirely possible, yes. But coming clean and ending contact is the cleanest way to end this. Do we really need more taint photos or can we seriously just please let this go?

Chris has never been 'broken' by a sweetheart.

When Kacey dumped him, he pretended to cry on camera and had moved on within 24 hours.

Chris has never been a good actor, and we've seen him fake tears as recently as his apology to Catherine. Yes, that was insincere. But he was actually sobbing when Kacey bitched him out in the final call. And why shouldn't he, she not only "left" him but yelled some really nasty insults at him and was frankly an abusive, passive aggressive punk to him. As for moving on so quickly, I don't buy that he was completely over it so much as he was trying to distract and use playground tactics of " OH YEAH? Well, um, look at THIS shiny new copyright, aren't you JEALOUS?"

As much as trolls want to believe that Chris is an unfeeling punching bag, there are levels of shit that do get to him and it's really like trolling a child in a lot of ways. Yes, it is not be the same as when one feels deep romantic love and suffers a loss, but for Chris it's still an emotional connection on some level and it absolutely affects him. I used to revel in sweetheart sagas years ago, but Kacey ruined it for me. I really do not like the sweetheart trolls because they see making him cry and getting his hopes up as victories. That crosses a line.

If you extrapolate this, then it becomes clear, I dare say painfully obvious, that if Chris accepts that Catherine and Renee were trolls, He'd be upset for moments, before looking elsewhere. He has never loved any of these girls: He has only loved the idea of them. And that's a very important distinction.

See above. Chris doesn't come out of these relationships with a good-natured "Awh you guys, you got me! HAHAHAHA!", he does get upset and it hurts him. Even if he didn't have deep feelings for these girls, he believed he did and reacts as such when they turn on him. It's relative, because Chris's mental and emotional maturity put him if a different level than normal adults.

If a person touches their hand to a hot stove and burns their fingers, but then keeps touching the stove repeatedly afterwards in spite of the pain as well as protests from onlookers, do you blame the stove for being hot? or do you blame the dumbass that never learns a lesson or listens to advice?

Oh come on. A stove doesn't make moral choices, it simply has an on/off state. Anyone who chooses to troll Chris has a greater mental capacity than a household appliance (well, one hopes) and is responsible for what they do. Bad analogy.

 

[Marvin]

Oh come on. A stove doesn't make moral choices, it simply has an on/off state. Anyone who chooses to troll Chris has a greater mental capacity than a household appliance (well, one hopes) and is responsible for what they do. Bad analogy.

It's more like a toddler wandering onto a highway. While most people I know aren't going to troll Chris when it isn't funny, not everyone is good in that way. It just takes one person to troll Chris.

The responsibility here is on Chris (or Barb) to avoid getting trolled. That's not how it should be, morally, but we're not dealing with a one-vs-one situation. We're dealing with a many-vs-one situation.