Undertale

[What can I say?]

I'm gonna laugh my ass off when Gaster is in exactly 0% of the game because he is mostly just a fan creation that has become canon somehow. So many people have just accepted that their conception of "Gaster" is factual, when it's just been speculation. If anything he represents exactly that, the people that love your work so much that they wrench it out of your hands and bastardize it beyond all belief until its a warped facsimile of the original. Which is one of the themes I think Deltarune is going to touch on. I remember the old man saying something about "death of the author" in one line, but he seemed to be for it iirc. Part of me hopes that Toby secretly loathes the Undertale AU phenomenon and wants to shit on the hacks that ruined his idea because they can't make their own.

Whether or not Gaster will actually appear as himself in Deltarune is still up in the air, but I think it's a pretty fair shot to say he will play some kind of role. There's far too many references to his theme and his motif of Darker Darkness for him to be completely irrelevant, hell even the freedom motif sounds incredibly similar to Gasters theme when you put the notes together in the correct way. It's clear that Gaster is a Deltarune character first, and Undertale character second, so him not showing up face to face in his (possibly literally) own game would be a bit odd.

I'm not gonna say anything concrete yet though, nobody fucking knows what Toby has planned and the fact that none of the fan-made interpretations of what chapter 3+4 was going to be were close to the mark proves that, Toby simply operates on a different wavelength. Fuck I'm half expecting to see the mystery man just show up as a regular NPC in the light world just like the other followers. It's entirely possible Gaster is just one big representation or satire of creepypastas or peoples obsession with easter eggs, hell all of the eggs we've been collecting so far could point to exactly that, but I see the eggs as shards of Gaster. Keep in mind we saw one of Gasters followers holding what he called a shard of Gaster in his hand, and that shard just so happened to look exactly like an egg.

We'll just have to wait another 5 years for us to find out I guess.

 

[Lapsus of the bepsus]

i agree its stupid to expect deltarune to have gaster just suddenly show up in person looking like twistyfaced mysteryman juggling eggs or whatever meme bullshit redditors picture him as. if he even makes a physical appearance at all i hope toby comes up with a new and different design.

but on the flipside like it or not he exists and he is very relevant to the deltarune universe as the nebulous gastershit has already made it into the game and into some of its most basic lore. in the context of undertale the fun value easter egg characters were just that, easter eggs, but its obvious they were intentionally planned and put in the game to create connections with deltarune.

• clam girl directly references susie and indirectly also noelle (or another female character from hometown) and drops some very blatant hints about deltarune
• the big mouth gaster follower who says gaster is listening and afaik was the only gaster follower who didnt have a non-grey counterpart now has one in deltarune, the bird guy from the library
• entry 17 (literally named room_gaster) is about dark worlds
• the gasters theme remix plays while ralsei explains dark worlds to you
• the meta narrator in deltarune talks exactly like gaster in entry 17 (minus wingdings)

none of this is speculation, its in the game. im not even including any of the actually obscure datamining shit about the vessel being called a "goner" in the game files or IMAGE_FRIEND or anything like that because that could mean nothing. i also dont think the egg guy is gaster or has much to do with gaster at all.

if this was all a massive troll by toby to waste the dataminers time then why would he let it influence the actual game so much? at some point his effort to keep gaster related shit from being core game content, in itself became the content. theres no point in arguing that gaster is a fanmade hoax and isnt going to be in deltarune. hes already there.

 

[Mrsneksnekson]

I'd have concerns that Gaster being built up so much that no pay off may be good enough.

Undertale, the themes in Songs, the ARG and the Twitter and the references in Deltarune, leaves a lot of gaps to still be filled.
I think everyone saw how fucking crazy people went over the gap between chapter 2 to 3. We got theories based of shitposts that a woody from toy story was gonna be in chapter 3.

While I feel the story of Deltarune may come to a satisfactory end, I'm not sure on Gaster getting a satisfying reveal.

 

[NSJAP]

 

[Deus Exica]

theres no point in arguing that gaster is a fanmade hoax and isnt going to be in deltarune. hes already there.

The only thing really annoying about how the fanbase treats Gaster is by either making him yet another lovable skeleton Blorbo or an unrepentant Eldritch villain. Otherwise he has always been a compelling concept and fits well within the game's weird meta themes as 'what of a cut content character actually existed and the left behind bits of him were around in-universe?'

The funniest thing revealed about him so far in Deltarune is that he is just (your) hype man.

 

[Outer Space Traveller]

No one asked me what do I think of Gaster, but he looks like a Ghostbusters type character who sort of is... there, in the game, but hidden. I don't know, maybe he has stories to tell but people are afraid to listen to him or not understand?

Meh, who cares, maybe it is a big nothingburger.

 

[Local Wordmason]

I guess what I meant by Gaster not being in the game was the current fan interpretation of Gaster. I don't doubt that there's someone there in his role, and the name even shows up in the files. The fans really took that one sprite from Undertale and ran with it, and I can already tell that nobody is going to be right when it comes to his role in the final story if there is one.

Spoiler: Edit: Theory

Edit: I also had a kinda interesting thought. So when Susie remakes the dark world in the church its the same as the first one, but things are different like the roles of objects being swapped like the moving piano puzzle, and the lighting and music being slightly changed. What if this is supposed to be like the relationship between Deltarune and Undertale? It's the same thing with the same parts, just swapped around and slightly remixed. Just an interesting theory that came to me. I have an inkling of a theory that Deltarune and Undertale are both "dark worlds" of the same reality that we just haven't seen yet. The barrier from Undertale and the fountains in Deltarune are similar in that way that they require a human soul to deal with.

My theory is that the event that happened that some characters seem to allude to may be when the dark world was created. I think there was some catastrophe that made them create a dark world to hide the fact that something really bad happened that resulted in a lot of people dying. I think the "prophecy" already happened and involved Dess, Asriel, Kris, and Noelle discovering things about the dark world and ice magic and causing the catastrophe. Maybe the shelter is the location of the fountain for that world and that's why adults in the town want to protect it, because it reveals that none of their existence is real and a good amount of the residents of the town are darkners, and the lightners are either implicit, or can't remember, but have no other choice but to hide the concept of dark worlds for the safety of the people that are left. Asgore obviously regrets what he did and was fired because he risked exposing the truth and got his mind wiped, which I guess they have the ability to do. Now Asgore is trying to prove to everyone what really happened and it took a toll on his relationship with his family and painted as him having some kind of episode. The people in the town are just darkners that were recruited and brought there like you're doing in the game. I think that's what Susie saw in that last panel, that no matter what they do they lose, but what she doesn't get is that she isn't part of that prophecy and she may only be a darkner like Ralsei. I think its basically like being in the overworld of a completed game file after the main campaign has already been completed, which also explains why the save file has "Kris" in it before you make your first save. Also Asriel died and his dust became Ralsei, which they allude to with Gerson's dust being able to revive his conciousness while in a dark world. It's because Ralsei is a darkner like the members of the town would be, and that's why he can traverse dark worlds. They already show that you can create dark fountains inside dark worlds that create their own world. The entirety of the party are just darkners of the overarching dark world that makes up Hometown.


I made this absolute schizo diagram to illustrate my theory. Basically the idea is that if the circles intersect, darkners can cross into that world (i.e. from their original world to castle town), but they can't cross into a circle they didn't come from (Like Lancer can't be in the Cyber World). If they're from outside that circle they can move about between all the dark worlds that are within the circle they came from. This is a total schizo theorypost so don't try to be a redditor and dunk on me and tell me I'm wrong because I know I likely am.

 

[NSJAP]

I am the one who got genuinely repulsed by Rouxls X Lanino X Elnina polycule scenes?

 

[Local Wordmason]

I am the one who got genuinely repulsed by Rouxls X Lanino X Elnina polycule scenes?

It was obviously played for a joke because Lanino and Elnina both admit that they were faking being okay with it because they thought its what their partner wanted. Rouxls only forced himself into their lives when they were both emotionally vulnerable to take advantage of their connections with Tenna.
The joke is that nobody actually wants to be in a polycule.

 

[Deus Exica]

Meh, who cares, maybe it is a big nothingburger

He just cut the player loose into the Deltarune universe to see what happens. He's a scientist. He's basically just doing it for the lols.

The joke is that nobody actually wants to be in a polycule.

Yeah, I was thinking it was going to be some weird woke shit where Rouxls and the weather couple become so much better as a threesome but it actually turned out kind of redpilled on polyamory.

 

[Sneak 'n' Snore]

I am the one who got genuinely repulsed by Rouxls X Lanino X Elnina polycule scenes?

I was too but, as others pointed out, the writing conveys that Lanino and Elnina were not comfortable around him.
Speaking of Rouxls, it took me a shockingly long time to realize he's not in chapter 4. Honestly wouldn't mind if he stayed out from this point on and his payoff was just grabbing the snack basket off the table after the "throuple" fight. Chapter 3 Rouxls felt so phoned in, he even reused his pirate shantey like battle theme when it doesn't fit here and its never acknowledged that he should be turning to stone.

 

[Dr. Ricearoni]

I was too but, as others pointed out, the writing conveys that Lanino and Elnina were not comfortable around him.
Speaking of Rouxls, it took me a shockingly long time to realize he's not in chapter 4. Honestly wouldn't mind if he stayed out from this point on and his payoff was just grabbing the snack basket off the table after the "throuple" fight. Chapter 3 Rouxls felt so phoned in, he even reused his pirate shantey like battle theme when it doesn't fit here and its never acknowledged that he should be turning to stone.

The stone thing was wildly inconsistent in chapter 3, and almost certainly intentionally. I think it's meant to call Ralsei's story into question because darkners from the world started turning to stone before ones brought from outside worlds.

 

[Two Dollars]

Due to real life obligations, it took me a while to actually finish everything in the new chapters, but I have now minus the Chapter 3 egg (fuck you Toby) and Mike, which I’ll get to later. I really liked both chapters overall and where the story is going, but here are some stream-of-consciousness thoughts:

Spoiler: Prophecy theorizing

There are some theories going around that I agree with, and they didn’t come up in my brief skipping-through-thread-highlights, so consider this:

Kris and Ralsei are obviously the first and third heroes in the prophecy, but the second hero is vague. What if it’s not Susie, but Noelle? The big angular design isn’t Susie’s bulkiness, but Noelle’s cloak. The hero has a sword, which Susie can’t equip, but Noelle can. Susie is frequently able to disobey our commands, but Noelle always has to obey, even when she doesn’t want to.

In the prophecy that shows the second hero with a heart and says “LOVE FINDS THE GIRL”, the heart isn’t a heart - it’s our soul taking control of her as in Chapter 4 Snowgrave. It’s not “the girl finds love”, it’s “LOVE (Level of Violence) takes control of the girl”. This could also imply that Snowgrave is the true prophecy while pacifist is the alt route, even implied by Ralsei saying that he hoped being nice to everyone would lead to a different ending. There’s even an unused prophecy that says “COLDWATER FELL FROM THE TOP OF THE SKY”, referencing snow, possibly Snowgrave.

Noelle was supposed to enter the closet with Kris, not Susie. Susie’s intervention broke the prophecy and is taking it in a new direction.

Spoiler: muh doe rape

I thought it was obvious that the rose was a metaphor for “loss of innocence” since we’re taking control of Noelle, but of course people would jump straight into sperging about how Toby TOTALLY put ACTUAL REAL CHILD RAPE in his game. I sure can’t wait to read them still whining about it ten years from now the same way they still whine about the hot spring scene in Mother 3.

Toby’s best response would have been to just ignore it, something something Streisand Effect.

Spoiler: Zoomerspeak

The beginning of Chapter 4 has some… questionable modern slang. Like that Among Us reference dialogue or the Hacker saying “touch grass”. It just makes the game feel more immediately dated. And Tenna’s joke about how episodic content gets worse over time is a red flag because I can’t think of a single episodic thing that’s made that joke and didn’t end up doing the exact thing it made fun of.

Spoiler: Genuinely the worst part

Alright, which tranny on the dev team decided to add a room that only says “Love Wins” and does absolutely nothing else, and why didn’t Toby have the balls to stop them? There’s no reason for this to exist at all other than to cause division.

And why the fuck is every single character gay? Did Pizzapants and the Nice Cream Guy really need to be a thing? Or Monster Teen and Snowy? Is Toby pushing for this or is the dev team full of yaoifags?

And to the guy who said their greatest fear was that the secret boss would be female: Given that Chapter 3 has the Knight and the Knight is all but confirmed to be Dess, you technically weren’t wrong.

 

[ruckingfetard]

Regarding the relevance of Gaster in this game or not, I can't say for sure if he specifically will be important but there are things about him that seem to already be confirmed involved.

Spoiler: spoilerish ramble

Dess, for example. If she is confirmed to be the voice in the "unused dialogue" sets. Toby is well aware fans are going to be digging through as much coding as possible for secrets, so it doesn't make sense to me that he would accidentally leave any of that in, especially since there is no real place for them to fit in the chapters they appeared in.
And the only other time we have instances like this are with Gaster, who you find clues to at the whim of randomization or from actual code tampering. At the most I think whatever is up with Gaster is up with Dess. I think it's also intentional because Toby knows the dedicated spergs are pawing for anything Gaster related, and already everyone was soyfacing at the very release of this game because of that potential, so I don't think Toby isn't being intentional here.

That said, I personally prefer Gaster as a fun little secret that only autists who look into the spoooky lore would know about. It's more interesting that way and makes me think of being young and believing in video game entities. Sometimes the mystery is more fun than the payoff. If Deltarune reveals some more explained sad faggot story about Gaster (more than we already got), then I think that will kill the fun for me. I wouldn't mind if he places more secrets in the game and leaves it up into interpretation though.

 

[Point 707]

Funny shit I found in utg

 

[San Marino]

Funny shit I found in utg

Could you send a link to it?

 

[ruckingfetard]

Two Dollars​

(I can't reply to your post)
zoomer speak:
I actually groaned and rolled my eyes at the among us reference in chapter 4. I also think because it takes so long for these chapters to release, each time they implement certain references, it's going to be out of date no matter what.

indeed, the worst part:
I say this with a heavy heart, and ask that you brace yourself, but Toby has and is ingratiated himself with trannies and sickos from the very start. I believe I heard that one degenerate from the Homestuck fandom that Andrew Hussie was cool with was involved in Undertale and credited. The one that did DavexBro content While I think Undertale and Deltarune is accessible to all types of players and Toby doesn't care who plays, it's clear the stench of troons is all over this whether we like it or not. I can only find myself to be grateful that it's not obnoxious and on the nose, and that Toby avoids outright saying shit as much as possible.

 

[Cucktry Roads]

And Tenna’s joke about how episodic content gets worse over time is a red flag because I can’t think of a single episodic thing that’s made that joke and didn’t end up doing the exact thing it made fun of.

I think the whole thing is trying to teach the player that deltarune cant go on forever. Gerson did the same thing when he asks Susie how she thinks the story should end and she says forever and he states that the story would eventually get boring.

 

[soy woah jaque]

Alright, which tranny on the dev team decided to add a room that only says “Love Wins” and does absolutely nothing else, and why didn’t Toby have the balls to stop them? There’s no reason for this to exist at all other than to cause division.

If you choose hate it says hate wins, it's a gay game regardless, why would you be surprised?

 

[gaysexenjoyer]

Just got into Fox's work recently, and so far am enjoying DR quite a bit.

One question though, is the fandom shitting their pants over people misgendering Kris and "erm achually it's they/them"ing a core tenant of being a fan of this game because I gave a cursory glance at the games subreddit and it's in literally every thread.

Playing the game I just assumed it used gender-neutral pronouns (like frisk) for the sake of self inserting on the part of the player and saving time from having to add like 40 lines of alternate dialogue, not a declaration of Kris's preferred in-universe identity. Was this word of god from Toby or what?