Undertale

[The Voicemail Devil]

Playing the game I just assumed it used gender-neutral pronouns (like frisk) for the sake of self inserting on the part of the player

Sorry, but if you still think the player is supposed to feel like the same person as Kris you didn't actually pay attention

 

[Two Dollars]

(I can't reply to your post)

If a post is too long, you can highlight the part you want to reply to since it won’t let you do the whole thing.

I say this with a heavy heart, and ask that you brace yourself, but Toby has and is ingratiated himself with trannies and sickos from the very start. I believe I heard that one degenerate from the Homestuck fandom that Andrew Hussie was cool with was involved in Undertale and credited. The one that did DavexBro content While I think Undertale and Deltarune is accessible to all types of players and Toby doesn't care who plays, it's clear the stench of troons is all over this whether we like it or not. I can only find myself to be grateful that it's not obnoxious and on the nose, and that Toby avoids outright saying shit as much as possible.

Oh, I know that. He came from Tumblr, after all. I just think that he didn’t personally come up with this stuff but is too open to letting the other devs inject whatever they want (which isn’t much better, but it’s something).

Just got into Fox's work recently, and so far am enjoying DR quite a bit.

One question though, is the fandom shitting their pants over people misgendering Kris and "erm achually it's they/them"ing a core tenant of being a fan of this game because I gave a cursory glance at the games subreddit and it's in literally every thread.

It’s any fandom with a character that isn’t explicitly male/female, welcome to the modern internet.

Playing the game I just assumed it used gender-neutral pronouns (like frisk) for the sake of self inserting on the part of the player and saving time from having to add like 40 lines of alternate dialogue, not a declaration of Kris's preferred in-universe identity. Was this word of god from Toby or what?

Toby is insistent on they/them pronouns for several characters but has never outright said anyone is nonbinary.

Sorry, but if you still think the player is supposed to feel like the same person as Kris you didn't actually pay attention

Kris is supposed to feel like a self-insert of the player until you’re hit with the whole “you’re actually playing as the soul” thing. Same idea as Undertale where the main character is supposed to feel like a self-insert of the player until it’s revealed that Frisk and the fallen human you named at the beginning are actually two different people.

 

[gaysexenjoyer]

Kris is supposed to feel like a self-insert of the player until you’re hit with the whole “you’re actually playing as the soul” thing.

Sorry, but if you still think the player is supposed to feel like the same person as Kris you didn't actually pay attention

It's a good thing I don't then . I think the player being literally torn from Kris's chest and spiked into various containers would be a pretty big indicator of that.

I'm saying that Kris's character was kept intentionally ambiguous until the reveal that Kris is just a in-universe vessel for the player, and as of now I'm simply confused as to why Kris being nonbinary is treated as gospel instead of just assuming it's still intentionally ambiguous for meta videogame purposes rather than le hecking enbie representation. I don't think Fox would be very averse to simply confirming it if that was the case.

 

[Coolio55]

indeed, the worst part:
I say this with a heavy heart, and ask that you brace yourself, but Toby has and is ingratiated himself with trannies and sickos from the very start. I believe I heard that one degenerate from the Homestuck fandom that Andrew Hussie was cool with was involved in Undertale and credited. The one that did DavexBro content While I think Undertale and Deltarune is accessible to all types of players and Toby doesn't care who plays, it's clear the stench of troons is all over this whether we like it or not. I can only find myself to be grateful that it's not obnoxious and on the nose, and that Toby avoids outright saying shit as much as possible.

Spoiler

Oh yeah, you know i'ts epic when the lead developer has his ex-girlfriend in the team.

Speaking of people on the team, I noticed that Andrew Brophy of Knuckle Sandwich irrelevance did some tool development.
I noticed that he had his own weird editor when I looked through the data of KS so it makes sense,

The beginning of Chapter 4 has some… questionable modern slang. Like that Among Us reference dialogue or the Hacker saying “touch grass”. It just makes the game feel more immediately dated. And Tenna’s joke about how episodic content gets worse over time is a red flag because I can’t think of a single episodic thing that’s made that joke and didn’t end up doing the exact thing it made fun of.

I think the whole thing is trying to teach the player that deltarune cant go on forever. Gerson did the same thing when he asks Susie how she thinks the story should end and she says forever and he states that the story would eventually get boring.

Makes me wonder about what comes next. What's going to be worth going apeshit over?
I might as well ask "What's the next 'Star Wars'?" but I don't really see any forthcoming candidates and that worries me.
I gotta be honest, the future of gaming looks fucking dire. It's all over after Half-Life 3.

 

[SuzukaKobayashi]

I gave up on Toby Fox since playing Undertale, I didn't like it but I did still play 3 routes (Pacifist (I hated it except the secret laboratory, that was pretty fun), Genocide (Worth it, I've been playing bullet hells years before Undertale was out and it felt like I was finally playing a game that could give me what I wanted) and then a Neutral run (just killed a few, then others not but I tried killing everyone))

I didn't enjoy the first 2 chapters of Deltarune as much, it was filled with annoying jokes and dialogue that I didn't really find charming or funny at all, until I decided to start the "weird" route (idk why they call it that) in chapter 2, I liked that a lot more since the writing is less annoying, still kinda corny to my taste but it's nothing I can just shrug off. Until then I played chapter 3 and 4 continuing that route and I have to say, I actually really enjoyed it. Sussie is much more tolerable and I don't dislike her anymore, Ralsei is just Ralsei, so far he hasn't done anything that I could give a stronger opinion on. I always assumed Kris as a guy, his name is Kris and he looks like a guy. I never really understood this self insert on Kris at all, he's obviously his own character despite having no visible eyes and neutral expression, I like that about him. I find Kris a more interesting character (specially after these 2 new chapters) than Frisk in each route of Undertale.

One thing I want to mention that's probably off-topic, but what's up with toby fox having two lesbian furries in both games he worked on? Is that something he did personally or is someone working with him insisting on adding that? Seeing weird lesbian stuff and with two furries who are supposed to be minors made me uncomfortable in the first 2 chapters, in these two new ones they toned it down quite a lot (at least from the route I'm doing, no idea how the other one plays out because I honestly don't care right now, I'll maybe check it out once the game is finished and do that other route) and it made me like Sussie much more, it didn't feel as weird anymore and it was more relaxed.

Also I don't get how people just call anything "non-binary" when the creator specificaly says it's supposed to be you or just ambiguous, that means you can either make it a guy or a girl as you like, it's just a canvas for you to see. This is nothing new but we can't deny most of the fanbase for this game are retarded.

 

[What can I say?]

If a post is too long,

 

[Two Dollars]

I'm saying that Kris's character was kept intentionally ambiguous until the reveal that Kris is just a in-universe vessel for the player, and as of now I'm simply confused as to why Kris being nonbinary is treated as gospel instead of just assuming it's still intentionally ambiguous for meta videogame purposes rather than le hecking enbie representation. I don't think Fox would be very averse to simply confirming it if that was the case.

It’s very simple:
“Not explicitly referred to as male/female” = non-binary = LGBT

That’s it. That’s the entire rationale, because nuance doesn’t exist and trannies need to be shoved into everything. And Toby could have gotten away with clarifying that it’s just ambiguous several years ago, but it’s way too late to say it now without causing a shitstorm. Not that he’d want to anyway since he recently said they/them for fucking Seam, one of the most obviously male characters in the game. Now YouTube comments are full of “errrm akshually seam’s male gender has been DEBOOOOONKED”.

Makes me wonder about what comes next. What's going to be worth going apeshit over?
I might as well ask "What's the next 'Star Wars'?" but I don't really see any forthcoming candidates and that worries me.
I gotta be honest, the future of gaming looks fucking dire. It's all over after Half-Life 3.

Eh, don’t think about it too hard. Just play old games you enjoy, old games you haven’t gotten around to, learn how to use emulators if you don’t already know, and when you happen to see a new game that you like, play it and have fun.

Oh, and dig into fangames and rom hacks/mods. Those are fun.

 

[Local Wordmason]

I found this article from an interview with Toby after Undertale blew up. It may give hopium about Toby's view on LGBT influence on his games. He was given the option to skip any questions he didn't want to answer and seems to use it mostly for when political topics come up. TEG is the interviewer, and TF is Toby Fox obviously.

TEG: The protagonist in UNDERTALE is of ambiguous gender. This is also true of many of the monsters he/she encounters along the way. Was this a design choice, and what role does androgyny play in your vision of the world?

TF: Skip

TEG: Romance was one of the most interesting aspects of the game. In some situations there are sexual undertones in the dialogue, but these quickly give way to absurdity. Why did you choose to include flirting as a mechanism, and what role does sexuality play in a world like Undertale’s, where the storyline centers around the polar opposites of violence and non-violence?

TF: Skip

TEG: Although I wouldn’t place UNDERTALE in the “post-apocalyptic” genre, there is a real feeling of wandering through a world in the aftermath of a cataclysm. Why have video games and art in general become so obsessed with the end of the world, and where would you place humanity on the spectrum from “no end in sight” to “it’s already happened, dude”?

TF: UHHH??? SKIP???

My view on the Noelle/Susie ship is it seems a little one sided. I think people neglect the fact that Susie isn't used to having friends so she probably is too autistic to even realize that Noelle is interested in her that way, she's just psyched to have anyone to hang out with and mirrors whatever behavior she sees because she doesn't know what to do. Noelle probably has some kind of masochistic side which is why she favors Kris in the Weird Route. The only reason she has "feelings" for Susie is because she thinks being around Susie will result in her being hurt. I bet after Susie softens up in front of her, she will totally lose interest. I always thought Susie liked Kris, but for the same reasons that she misunderstands Noelle's feelings towards her. Kris seems to have feelings for Noelle because his desire to protect her from the player, but it may be out of their close friendship growing up, or out of shared trauma. I think it's not gonna be anything beyond what has already been shown and probably exists to be subverted.

 

[wtfNeedSignUp]

I found this article that may give hopium about Toby's view on LGBT influence on his games. He was given the option to skip any questions he didn't want to answer and seems to use it mostly for when political topics come up. TEG is the interviewer, and TF is Toby Fox obviously.

Why even put yourself in this situation? Might as well play Russian Roulette with your career.

TEG: Although I wouldn’t place UNDERTALE in the “post-apocalyptic” genre, there is a real feeling of wandering through a world in the aftermath of a cataclysm. Why have video games and art in general become so obsessed with the end of the world, and where would you place humanity on the spectrum from “no end in sight” to “it’s already happened, dude”?

TF: UHHH??? SKIP???

What the fuck does this question even mean? It's asking couple of things at once and it's not clear if it's referring to humanity within the game or modern day humanity. Dumb as fuck question anyways, especially as only the monster world is somewhat damaged in Undertale.

 

[Deus Exica]

And Tenna’s joke about how episodic content gets worse over time is a red flag because I can’t think of a single episodic thing that’s made that joke and didn’t end up doing the exact thing it made fun of.

I mean it's already true, I don't think CH 3 or 4 are as good as 2. Maybe better than 1, which feels far closer to Undertale in its simplicity.

One question though, is the fandom shitting their pants over people misgendering Kris and "erm achually it's they/them"ing a core tenant of being a fan of this game because I gave a cursory glance at the games subreddit and it's in literally every thread.

Hey, welcome to the Undertale fandom, it's full of the worst kind of insufferable SJW faggots straight off of Tumblr you could ever imagine. If you want to discuss it with slightly less faggotry unironically go to 4chan. It's somehow got one of the less insufferable generals and threads I've been in for a long while.

Playing the game I just assumed it used gender-neutral pronouns (like frisk) for the sake of self inserting on the part of the player and saving time from having to add like 40 lines of alternate dialogue, not a declaration of Kris's preferred in-universe identity. Was this word of god from Toby or what?

Toby is an indie faggot and he hadn't started using they/them specifically to refer to Kris until CH 2, though I dont think he ever directly said anything about Kris being non binary.

They/them is also a bit of deep lore because Kris is literally two entities in a single body.

You're best off just ignoring the retards if you want to enjoy this stuff at all.

 

[gaysexenjoyer]

TEG: Although I wouldn’t place UNDERTALE in the “post-apocalyptic” genre, there is a real feeling of wandering through a world in the aftermath of a cataclysm. Why have video games and art in general become so obsessed with the end of the world, and where would you place humanity on the spectrum from “no end in sight” to “it’s already happened, dude”?

TF: UHHH??? SKIP???

 

[SuzukaKobayashi]

You're best off just ignoring the retards if you want to enjoy this stuff at all.

But this thread is so good, I've been lurking and laughing so hard, truly this place is just the spot to discuss the game.

Can't wait for Chapter 5 where we rape Noelle in front of Sussie and Asgore shoots himself because Toriel got boned, this game is about cucking guys, I think toby is trying to say something.

 

[ruckingfetard]

My view on the Noelle/Susie ship is it seems a little one sided. I think people neglect the fact that Susie isn't used to having friends so she probably is too autistic to even realize that Noelle is interested in her that way, she's just psyched to have anyone to hang out with and mirrors whatever behavior she sees because she doesn't know what to do.

I wish this were true but unfortunately susie does seem interested in noelle, or at least has been becoming more and more interested. If you look undern Noelle's bed there's a picture of Noelle dressed goth/punk for a CD cover and Susie gets flustered about it, so she seems to be into goth gfs. Plus knowing the deltatroon team, if the didn't go through with noelle and susie, they would see it as "going backwards on LGBT progress!!!" that or they would be at the mercy of their annoying fanbase. So yeah. I think Susie does like her. I'd like Susie and Kris more, if I'm being honest. Their development has seem the most natural and I enjoy seeing little hints of Kris favoring Susie. But I'm okay with the more likely of them being bros, too.

But this thread is so good, I've been lurking and laughing so hard, truly this place is just the spot to discuss the game.

I feel the exact same way. Kiwifarms is the only place I can discuss my autistic little interests without being inundated with the opinions of reddit turbo faggot pedophile trannies. It's really fun albeit distracting me from my favorite lolcows.

 

[Deus Exica]

But this thread is so good, I've been lurking and laughing so hard, truly this place is just the spot to discuss the game.

Yes, this thread is also good. I figure if he is already here asking that question though he knows that.

Can't wait for Chapter 5 where we rape Noelle in front of Sussie and Asgore shoots himself because Toriel got boned, this game is about cucking guys

Susie literally has a cuck chair ready to go in her room for Noelle. I will take back every bad thing I've ever said about Toby if the next chapter goes like I think it will and Noelle has a breakdown when Susie doesn't really have feelings for her and Kris being around ruins their date.

 

[gaysexenjoyer]

I always thought Susie liked Kris

This reminds me, there's a scene in CH4 where Kris suddenly grabs her super close and she admits to literally drinking his shampoo lmao. Which I think is the second or third time Susie has indirectly mentioned that she likes how Kris smells.

 

[Lapsus of the bepsus]

But this thread is so good, I've been lurking and laughing so hard, truly this place is just the spot to discuss the game.

i gotta be honest ive been waiting for 8 years for this opportunity to sperg out about how a fictional character from a video game who i never actually saw while playing it could maybe possibly appear in another game

Susie literally has a cuck chair ready to go in her room for Noelle. I will take back every bad thing I've ever said about Toby if the next chapter goes like I think it will and Noelle has a breakdown when Susie doesn't really have feelings for her and Kris being around ruins their date.

i absolutely fucking cannot wait for the snowgrave version of exactly this

This reminds me, there's a scene in CH4 where Kris suddenly grabs her super close and she admits to literally drinking his shampoo lmao. Which I think is the second or third time Susie has indirectly mentioned that she likes how Kris smells.

i thought that was because she likes apples and eating random shit

 

[San Marino]

Just a random thought, shouldn't Kris be able to fight back against Susie's bullying in the beginning of chapter 1? In Undertale, it talks about how humans greatly physically overpower monsters.

 

[gaysexenjoyer]

i thought that was because she likes apples and eating random shit

I mean I only bring it up because the scene has some heavy romantic undertones, in all likelihood yeah it's probably just her being autistic. Still funny.

 

[SuzukaKobayashi]

shouldn't Kris be able to fight back against Susie's bullying

He probably doesn't because we aren't. Again I'd like the choice to do it but I can also think maybe Kris is just too depressed to care at that point.

 

[gaysexenjoyer]

Just a random thought, shouldn't Kris be able to fight back against Susie's bullying in the beginning of chapter 1? In Undertale, it talks about how humans greatly physically overpower monsters.
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Human souls > monster souls

Physically humans are still beat by a lot of monsters. The soul is what makes humans so powerful, and I don't think it would be in the DR souls interest to fucking vaporize the school bully.