Undertale

[Dr. Ricearoni]

Huh. In chapter 1
if you talk to one of the creatures behind the apartment door, they ask Kris "does it hurt to be made of blood?"
Do the monsters in this game actually bleed or not??? I mean obviously we know they do by chapter 4, but the monster behind the door made it seem like it's not the norm.

Could be that monsters have blood but are still more magic than water hence why they still become dust.

 

[Dumpster dived waifu]

Finally had time, did all of Chapter 3, managed to find all of the important secrets except for the egg. Fucking asshole place to hide it, and now I need to replay the whole fucking chapter. I'm glad I looked up where the egg is before too many attempts at the secret boss.

 

[Manimal House]

rudy explains this if you visit him at the hospital in ch1. he says toriel used to be a party animal in college and threw a pie at him across a room. theres probably more to that story but maybe shes just embarrassed to have him talking about it in church.

I wasn't aware of this, it's been a long time since I looked at anything from CH.1 so reading this now makes me want to revisit and take a look at what was said.

another thing i noticed during my full playthrough, might be obvious to most but it struck me

Spoiler

the mystery phonecall to kris, presumably from carol, mentions some kind of plan "next week". you know whats happening "next week"? asriel is coming back.

everything about carol is suspicious as fuck, im wondering if she knows about snowgrave and wants (you) to train noelle to beat the knight because its dess, and she wants it defeated without physically obliterating it? would explain a lot. at this point the story could go any one of a trillion ways that would still make some sense.

Wouldn't Snowgrave had to have happened first in order for her to prompt that? I thought she only says the line about being welcome when snowgrave DIDN'T happen. I wonder if she says something different if you back out of the Noelle dialogue and say it was just a prank or something....

 

[Vinluv Handesbukia]

Oh no... poor Toriel
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speaking off
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(Source is NSFL)

We really have a [Clown around town] Queen,we don't need another [Lightener] BIG SHOT

'KAY PEOPLE 2026,CHAPTER 5,THE KNIGHT'S COMIN' TO TOWN!

 

[Manimal House]

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[Dorothy]

Whose Alex Rosetti, does he have a thread? His name makes me thing he has a thread

 

[NuII's Clitty💦]

She's like 13 years old and already a lesbian, we can safely assume she's a molestation/grooming victim, there's nothing innocent about her to begin with.

What a justification for sexualizing a barely-teenage character.

Deltarune literally has deflowerement imagery embedded and it represents the thinking of pedophiles very well. They think that because Kris can sit next to Noelle on a couch, they can groom children.

 

[Lapsus of the bepsus]

Wouldn't Snowgrave had to have happened first in order for her to prompt that? I thought she only says the line about being welcome when snowgrave DIDN'T happen. I wonder if she says something different if you back out of the Noelle dialogue and say it was just a prank or something....

Spoiler

i think she is aware of snowgrave regardless, if you do snowgrave then at the end of chapter 4 when kris cant sleep carol calls him at night to ask if hes going to the festival and says that noelle is really looking forward to seeing him there. she also definitely knows to some extent about the soul and that kris is being controlled based on her "love" for red heart pillows.

which reminds me of one more thing. noelle mentions at one point (at her house i think) that when they were smaller kris would "pretend to rip his heart out and chase her" which threw me for a loop. how the fuck is that possible? either kris has been controlled for much longer than we think (but before the events of deltarune maybe it wasnt by us?), or it was a joke but somehow attracted the red soul to him later and caused the same thing to actually happen to him, or maybe it was a complete coincidence. kind of a mindfuck moment regardless.

 

[Mrsneksnekson]

Spoiler

i think she is aware of snowgrave regardless, if you do snowgrave then at the end of chapter 4 when kris cant sleep carol calls him at night to ask if hes going to the festival and says that noelle is really looking forward to seeing him there. she also definitely knows to some extent about the soul and that kris is being controlled based on her "love" for red heart pillows.

which reminds me of one more thing. noelle mentions at one point (at her house i think) that when they were smaller kris would "pretend to rip his heart out and chase her" which threw me for a loop. how the fuck is that possible? either kris has been controlled for much longer than we think (but before the events of deltarune maybe it wasnt by us?), or it was a joke but somehow attracted the red soul to him later and caused the same thing to actually happen to him, or maybe it was a complete coincidence. kind of a mindfuck moment regardless.

Spoiler: Spooped for wall of text

The way I see the heart thing, is a bit of foreshadowing. So while they're kids they mess about and play pretend with the hearts but it may be foreshadowing the current situation or a situation regarding Dess.
I think that its a case of Noelle, Kris and Dess did something at the bunker. As you need 3 codes to get in, the 3 of them would have access to all 3:
Noelle would have access to Deltarune code from the church cause of choir. Equally, Kris could have the same as the family frequented the chruch
Dess would likely have been less afraid of Carol so would have the courage to get the Pine one.
And Kris, would have access to the Cop one from Asgores time on the force.
I'm unsure if Asriel was involved but it its entirely possible

They fucked around after Kris learned stuff messing with Catti, and likely opened a dark world and as they couldnt close it Kris and Noelle get out but Dess gets lost in the Dark. This gets Asgore fired as he should have prevented this. And we are at where we are with the status quo.

Now from here its speculation with no major / confirmed foundation:
Kris loses their soul in the dark world - Not sure how but it would explain the lethargy and actions after, withdrawing and being asleep mostly. People have commented on Kris's change in the week of Deltarune with the normal playthrough in Noelle's house (her chat with Suzie)
Noelle has a pattern of hinting at repressed memories, Chapter 2 spells a bit of this out but nothing concrete. Likely she repressed the bunker dark world.
Carol gets it out of either Kris or Noelle about what happened and starts investigating herself.

This would explain the soul removal process by Kris, The obsession from Carol, and the Knight not killing Kris in chapter 3. And it adds to the speculation around Carol being positive to Kris in the normal route as she needs Kris to get Dess back as part of her plan and making Noelle stronger but compliant fits her needs in the Weird route. Carol seems like the kind of person to snap peoples necks if they do something wrong to her or the family so Kris being positively received doesn't fit that.

Off the wall shit:
This isn't Kris's first time being controlled. The bird cage and how Kris handles the soul kinda gives me vibes of that. The hatred of the soul be recognising they need it to fully function.
Likely a dark world in Mayor's office.
Gerson in chapter 4 tricks Suzie to heal by saying he pricked his finger, this to me would indicate some monsters can bleed. Also I'm not sure but Toby may have forgotten a real throwaway line in chapter 1 about being made of blood. Fundamentally, the kid could be referencing the fact that Kris is as a human made of mostly blood: Organs and veins and the like. And as he is a kid doesn't understand human physiology properly.
Gerson knew that Suzie would be at the Dark world in the Church so asked Alvin to keep his remains in the office. The lines in Chapter 2 at the grave kinda hint at that.

Things that stick out for me:
How does Ralsei know so much? Sure the prophecy can be the reason, but its unlikely that he would have access to that prior to the fountain being created so someone told him what he needed to know.
Who created the school fountain, not the abandoned class the storage room one? Its unlikely to have been created long before Chapter 1 as someone would have gone in there and there isn't a spate of missing kids.
Asgore and Toriel are loving people but kinda shit parents. They get the basics but are really neglectful in other areas. It seems the story highlights they both try to be good parents but they will put their needs ahead of their kids. Discipline, boundaries, emotional needs, basic concern around behaviours all out the window but should be red flags.
The need for "real world" money. Its an odd thread but the only use has been chapter 4 in Qc's Diner.
The eggs from the egg man. If you go full weird route, you can get a max of 2, normal nets you 4 (so far obviously). No idea on them but I think they are linked to Kris's time prior to being adopted by the Dreemurs, just based off chapter 4s egg room alone.

 

[Cucktry Roads]

So, I saw this video this morning, basically you can go up to the ice key area in chapter 3 once Tenna leave on board 2.

Something I remember is that when you're about to leave the Spamton Neo area in chapter 2, Ralsei starts to do damage control. In this chapter 3 video, Ralsei is getting spooked by going off the rails again.

I follow the theory that Ralsei is the Undertale timeline Asriel trying to play by having a scripted adventure. Even if that turns out to not be true, it still feels like something scripted is going on (especially with the prophecy stuff we're getting now). We weren't supposed to find Jeevil. Spamton wasn't supposed to become Neo. We weren't supposed to beat the roaring knight the first time (As a reminder: Ramb was once again trying to isolate Kris just like Spamton did). Gerson wasn't supposed to be in the dark world. It feels like the shadow crystal bosses are going off script for either Ralsei or the prophecy.

 

[The Lawgiver]

Purple jacket

The jacket's RED

Redditors are not human, and thus, can be mocked without an ounce of regret.

They aren't monsters or the darkness guys who are pretty much monsters with extra steps either.

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We really have a [Clown around town] Queen,we don't need another [Lightener] BIG SHOT
View attachment 7509868
'KAY PEOPLE 2026,CHAPTER 5,THE KNIGHT'S COMIN' TO TOWN!

Even naming Kris the santa variant of the name didn't save him from the striped shirt+brown hair+chris name weirdo connections. Guy's parents shoudla named him like Jose or something maybe then he'd be able to escape the chris connection.

 

[electrician's apprentice]

ok after this I did Chapter 2 Spamton neo in two tries and that's only because I was stupid in the first one ,and the second one I almost did no hit win
Did I just get way better at this game? I remember it being way harder

Did snowgrave and now I remember why I thought this guy was hard you can't really afford to take hits and I had to heal most of the time but it still only took me a few tries to beat him

I'm gonna give this game a break for a while before I do ch3 and 4 with the weird route save

 

[Local Wordmason]

Gotta say Chapters 3 and 4 have some of the best music that Toby has written to date imo. "Paradise, Paradise" has immaculate vibes, you can see more Anamanaguchi inspiration like Undertale had. "The Third Sanctuary" is honestly one of the most technically impressive songs I've seen in a video game as far as sheer musicality required to pull it off. He may have surpassed the Follin brothers with this one. Chopping up and rearranging the first two sanctuary songs to make funky time signatures and polyrhythms is such a cool idea and it fits thematically. The musical palindrome theory is actually something I never considered, but it tracks as something Toby would do. Nintendo did it before with "Ballad of the Goddess" from Skyward Sword. (It was cool as fuck back then too) Actually the idea of a musical ambigram would be an interesting concept that has been explored by more mathematical minded composers as well. There's a rabbit hole of composers fucking with math and symmetry to compose their works. Junichi Masuda, who created Pokemon, and also worked with Toby Fox, has also done similar things like in the song for the Pokemon Mansion in Red and Blue.

People being able to identify Touhou bullet patterns gives me "I recognize that bulge" vibes. I may theorydump sometime but I need more time to cook, I have some thoughts, but I want more time to think about everything. This is one of those rare opportunities where there is so much to look at and think about, I try to take my time and enjoy it.

 

[Lizard Machine Bugs]

also gaster fucking lives. hes not the guy giving you eggs from behind a tree but come on, its so plainly obvious that the all caps narrator voice is him, and in the chapter 4 epilogue he pretty much promises to get personally involved in the later chapters.

Gaster believers be like:

 

[Kaktus Kompot]

Guys, I'm sure that despite most of the game being done, Papyrus still hasn't appeared yet just because he's so relevant to the story and that him being shown too early would spoil an important plot point, and definitely not because Toby is doing another one of his subversive twists where we'll get to interact with him for a single scene at the end of chapter 7.

I'm sure of it.

 

[Local Wordmason]

I'm gonna laugh my ass off when Gaster is in exactly 0% of the game because he is mostly just a fan creation that has become canon somehow. So many people have just accepted that their conception of "Gaster" is factual, when it's just been speculation. If anything he represents exactly that, the people that love your work so much that they wrench it out of your hands and bastardize it beyond all belief until its a warped facsimile of the original. Which is one of the themes I think Deltarune is going to touch on. I remember the old man saying something about "death of the author" in one line, but he seemed to be for it iirc. Part of me hopes that Toby secretly loathes the Undertale AU phenomenon and wants to shit on the hacks that ruined his idea because they can't make their own.

 

[Lizard Machine Bugs]

the mystery phonecall to kris, presumably from carol, mentions some kind of plan "next week". you know whats happening "next week"? asriel is coming back.

everything about carol is suspicious as fuck, im wondering if she knows about snowgrave and wants (you) to train noelle to beat the knight because its dess, and she wants it defeated without physically obliterating it? would explain a lot. at this point the story could go any one of a trillion ways that would still make some sense.

I don't think so. Aside from everything about Snowgrave and the Sword Route in chapter 3 aping video game creepypastas about secret unintended routes, Carol never actually pushes you to do Snowgrave.
Only Ramb does and that's very arguable since he also laments what Toriel would think about what kris has been doing and is aware of Kris making the Dark Fountain. Not to mention he's totally unaffiliated and seems more interested in allowing you the player/red soul and Kris the freedom to do good or ill.
Carol probably knows about the Snowgrave route happening, but she doesn't make any moves either way so I think the most concrete answer is that it doesn't or only minimally interferes with what she has planned.

 

[ducktales4gameboy]

Had an absolutely retarded thought today regarding the prophecy in chapter 4. Might've already been posted but whatever:

Spoiler

So the 'Jockington grows a beard' panel. It looks like a shitpost but it's Toby Fox so it's going to be important somehow because it's the dumbest thing possible. The question it raises though is, pretty much everything in DR's world revolves around the prophecy, yet here we have a very specific character directly identified as well as a lower bounds to the timeframe for when the prophecy can take place (whenever he's able to actually grow a beard. snake puberty or whatever?) yet absolutely nobody seems to acknowledge this. Wouldn't this make him Big Shit being the one and only person directly named in the prophecy?

It makes me wonder if what's being shown in the dark world is significantly off from the real prophecy given Suzie doesn't seem to know it at all when she sees the first couple panels, yet it's supposedly well known in the world being the thing Noelle's JRPG is based on and the thing hammer of justice turtle man whose name escapes me talks about during his fight.

 

[Cucktry Roads]

Had an absolutely retarded thought today regarding the prophecy in chapter 4. Might've already been posted but whatever:

Spoiler

So the 'Jockington grows a beard' panel. It looks like a shitpost but it's Toby Fox so it's going to be important somehow because it's the dumbest thing possible. The question it raises though is, pretty much everything in DR's world revolves around the prophecy, yet here we have a very specific character directly identified as well as a lower bounds to the timeframe for when the prophecy can take place (whenever he's able to actually grow a beard. snake puberty or whatever?) yet absolutely nobody seems to acknowledge this. Wouldn't this make him Big Shit being the one and only person directly named in the prophecy?

It makes me wonder if what's being shown in the dark world is significantly off from the real prophecy given Suzie doesn't seem to know it at all when she sees the first couple panels, yet it's supposedly well known in the world being the thing Noelle's JRPG is based on and the thing hammer of justice turtle man whose name escapes me talks about during his fight.

I think the Jockington beard thing was a full shitpost. Toby was posting that in marketing material, likely to get people thinking that Jockington was supposed to play a huge part in chapter 3.

The Prophecy is supposed to be the main thing, Lord of the Hammers was based off of it, and the Dragonblazer rpg was then based off lord of the hammers. There is some talk that maybe the full prophecy isn't know, but from what I've noticed is that Gerson was trying to teach Susie that stuff gets changed and edited and she shouldn't believe no prophecy and instead make her own destiny, hence the "white pen of hope" line he says during his fight. With him smashing up the final prophecy windows he's trying to teach her to make her own destiny and she can prevent the death of whoever is gonna have to die.

 

[Dr. Ricearoni]

I think the Jockington beard thing was a full shitpost.

People forget it's an obscure reference to a dumb joke he made during one of the Undertale anniversary livestreams where he claims Jockington grows a beard in chapter 4. I wish I could find a clip of it.