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While obviously not tournament legal, how forward compatible are they?
Warhammer 40k
- Thread starter Great Unclean Chris
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No, I meant Bligh was the admech guy that was supposed to be the savior of admech players for 40k and somehow if he hadn't died, admech would have 40k rules for their 30k shit that he designed instead of being stuck with inspector gadget extendo legs sniper guy. But like I said, it's a stupid excuse because that doesn't explain why space marines don't get their tanks and this one guy was the only person on Earth who could come up with rules for admech.
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- Jan 13, 2018
Interesting. Don't think I've ever seen Bligh referred to much for AdMech in particular rather than FW in general (which would, admittedly, explain Marines also not getting their rules if it were the relevant factor).
Still hardly the only factor since he died during the 8e Indexhammer days and much of FW would continue to get 40k rules for two entire editions (plus 10e Indexhammer) before we reached the current state.
Haven't actually played any 3e myself to compare, but I think it's a substantial enough change that you'd need to do a decent bit of homebrewing to get things working.
Yeah like I said, it's a weird cope. It also doesn't make sense because marines got their rules for a bit before it was all dumped to legends, meanwhile for admech it was just the termite drill and I think one unit of infantry that had 40k rules before being sent to legends. It also doesn't account for half of custodes and knights being both, even after some of the HH knights were re-done in plastic and packaged specifically as a HH product.
All that being said, whatever internal nonsense they have going on at GW about insisting on as many models as possible only being usable for one game system and no others is kind of idiotic.
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- Jan 13, 2018
Pretty much - the drill and Secutarii, for a total of technically three datasheets since the latter came in melee and range variants. I'm sure it was just two more weeks until they were due to get all the robots.
Mr Clark
kiwifarms.net
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- Mar 7, 2022
Im sure most people wont give a fuck as long as you give them the heads up. I mean, that guy, he has an issue with everything but most people wouldnt care too much.
Those teams and Novitiates are essentially legends for tourny play but KT treat that differently since its so new.
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- Dec 16, 2019
Basically, yeah. Known for their aggression even by SoB standards, which is saying something.
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- Dec 18, 2019
Wreck and Ruin by Danie Warire
This was an interesting change of pace. The sisters get diverted from their path back home by the demands of an Inquisitor. They are sent to Lycheate, A former mechanicus mining world that's been drained dry of its resources. Its 12 moons were blown apart to extract the rich ore, creating a ring of debris which makes getting down there a trial. The surface is also 90 percent toxic sludge, and the cog boys thought it would be more cost efficient to leave all their shit down there when they left. But it gets even better. Lycheate is a breeding ground for scum and villainy. It's no hive, but all manner of lawless pirates, heretics, xenos and rogues live on the planet scrounging resources and rubbing shoulders. There's even a couple orcs living amongst the population. ( That reminds me I forgot to mention the last novel had a few
orcs in it). And our heroes are tasked with going down there and NOT shooting it up.
This had one of the more unique Inquisitor encounters I've seen in a story. Istrix is woman with complete conviction and certainty, but with no apparent plan of action or sizeable retinue. All she has is a small squad of imperial guard and ironclad faith in the emperor's will. She wants a psyker she's tracking alive and casualties to a minimum. At first the SoB are all in and find the idea of serving an Inquisitor a holy honor. However, everyone's faith gets tested when this chick keeps making boneheaded commands. She has them walk into a lions den of apostates, star wars style and refuses to let them fire their weapons at multiple points. It slowly bubbles up the whole book until Augusta countermands the Inquisitor and cooks things off.
Good story and I'm interested to see the fallout in the next one.
I like how there are some cracks in the units cohesion but nothing overt. The girls tend to express their opinions more then other imperial units and while they are an effective fighting force, Im getting the sense they are building up to a fault line coming up later. That being said I do like how open minded they are when it comes to identifying and killing threats. There's a big narrative focus on figuring out the enemies strat and exploiting it.
This was an interesting change of pace. The sisters get diverted from their path back home by the demands of an Inquisitor. They are sent to Lycheate, A former mechanicus mining world that's been drained dry of its resources. Its 12 moons were blown apart to extract the rich ore, creating a ring of debris which makes getting down there a trial. The surface is also 90 percent toxic sludge, and the cog boys thought it would be more cost efficient to leave all their shit down there when they left. But it gets even better. Lycheate is a breeding ground for scum and villainy. It's no hive, but all manner of lawless pirates, heretics, xenos and rogues live on the planet scrounging resources and rubbing shoulders. There's even a couple orcs living amongst the population. ( That reminds me I forgot to mention the last novel had a few
chaos
This had one of the more unique Inquisitor encounters I've seen in a story. Istrix is woman with complete conviction and certainty, but with no apparent plan of action or sizeable retinue. All she has is a small squad of imperial guard and ironclad faith in the emperor's will. She wants a psyker she's tracking alive and casualties to a minimum. At first the SoB are all in and find the idea of serving an Inquisitor a holy honor. However, everyone's faith gets tested when this chick keeps making boneheaded commands. She has them walk into a lions den of apostates, star wars style and refuses to let them fire their weapons at multiple points. It slowly bubbles up the whole book until Augusta countermands the Inquisitor and cooks things off.
. It turns out she has a personal stake in the psyker as he was her former interrogator/lover. But this dude already drove her borderline insane by the time the story starts, pretending to be the emperor and whispering in her ear. He's been playing a game by letting her live in such a messed up state and seeing how long she lasts.
The other big twist, is he found a whole army of leftover servitors on the planet. The sisters manage to ice him, but it's implied there's going to be significant fallout from this discovery and the death of the Inquisitor on Augusta's watch. In addition to the psykers cog girl associate that escapes them.
The other big twist, is he found a whole army of leftover servitors on the planet. The sisters manage to ice him, but it's implied there's going to be significant fallout from this discovery and the death of the Inquisitor on Augusta's watch. In addition to the psykers cog girl associate that escapes them.
Good story and I'm interested to see the fallout in the next one.
I like how there are some cracks in the units cohesion but nothing overt. The girls tend to express their opinions more then other imperial units and while they are an effective fighting force, Im getting the sense they are building up to a fault line coming up later. That being said I do like how open minded they are when it comes to identifying and killing threats. There's a big narrative focus on figuring out the enemies strat and exploiting it.
I think my favorite part about the authors interpretation is how tactically flexible and innovative they can be when faced with obstacles. The team leader is open to squad suggestions, which makes them remarkably liberal by 40k standards. Tradition is a secondary concern when it comes to killing the enemies of the emperor. They also spend their free time training the hell out of each other in mock battles. There is a mixture of faith and practicality that is appealing.
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- Dec 16, 2019
So what does that makes every single damn Space Marine Sergeant? Its a rare one that doesn't ask their squad for input. Hell, the IG codex specifically allows lower-ranked units to issue orders to higher-ranked ones by claiming its tactical advice. Even in the IG the only regiments that wouldn't do something like that are the Mordians, Krieg, and maybe the Valhallans. Even the notoriously well-drilled and well-disciplined Cadians get a little rough when they're actually in the field.
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- Dec 18, 2019
Yeah I could have worded that a bit better but at least by SoB standards they seem a lot more tactical and less "no retreat! Die to the last woman in this shit hole! "
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- Dec 16, 2019
And as I posted up that's like half the Convents. But yes, generally speaking actual tactics and common sense like "let the heavy bolter do all of the hard work and we clean up the leftovers" are extremely rare in 40k, depending on author and how grimdark/grimderp Games Workshop is feeling that day.
Oh, and as far as punching it out with Orks goes, power armor and
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- Jun 3, 2021
It's real bizarre considering how cash hungry GW is. Why not maximize the playable of models to ensure you sell the most models? I remember back in 3rd they even had Chaos Daemon models that could be used for both WHFB and 40k and had their own unique box design to designate their dual role.
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- Jan 3, 2023
Rumor has it that it's due to internal affairs, that they want to measure the success of each game system so they know what to keep supporting, and which teams they can give the credit to. I personally think that it's due to their desire to make 40k an E-sport ala Magic the Gathering for marketing purposes. Makes balancing easier when there is less variables, that and many of the cut units weren't introduced by the main 40k team to begin with, models like the Contemptor or Decimator and their rules were Forgeworld. There needs to be a decent level of availability and accessibility so that Timmy can get his hands on whatever is being played.
I think we all know the most obvious explanation is that its cutting a starfish in half, they expect you to buy more to "complete" your armies for both systems
It's pretty much all AoS packaging now. There are a few daemons that do not have analogues in 40k, which isnt a completely new concept but you're right, the unique boxes are gone. People have been worried that the entire undivided index is getting yeeted but I am very doubtful of that. I am slightly concerned about the fact that when you take one of the God aligned legion detachments designed for daemon soup, certain units are just missing outright, hoping they dont prune Skulltaker, The Changeling, etc.
Daemons have always been in a strange place, you can use them in 40k, AoS, Old World, HH. And at some point they will return to Kill Team. Round bases are'nt even an issue for Old World either because you can just find trays that work with them.
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Nah, it gets dumber than that. Just look at the rhino chassis as an example. The current 30k plastic rhino is actually a decent kit(because it's not fucking 20 years old) and actually fits the footprint close enough that no one cares(unlike say, the landraider proteus). Yet still for whatever fucking reason GW made sure the HH legion vindicator doesn't have the dozer blade that the 40k vindicator has so it can fit in locations that that 40k version cannot... and thus it's not a suitable proxy without printing a dozer blade for it.
Hell, the land raider proteus could have retained the look of the proteus while ending up as the same footprint as the regular version and just been an update for the model but... nope. Same with the HH Leman Russ intentionally made slightly longer and without sponsons.
And the only reason to do that shit, for models that should have been the same or close enough was to prevent direct compatibility for another one of their own product ranges.
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- Jan 3, 2023
The HH rhino kit actually has a major design flaw in the underbelly, where it does not properly fit and requires a decent amount of effort to get things to align appropriately. It's too thick
I believe you mean the Spartan. The Proteus is only slightly smaller than the 3rd Land Raider, and GW gave the okay for using it, which means the only issues playing one comes down to what the tournament organizer decides. The Spartan is significantly larger
The new Plastic HH vindicator is copying the Forgeworld Resin design which came before it. This is also true in some regards for the Proteus.
Once again, it's copying a forgeworld resin sculpt but in plastic. The extra ass on the solar auxila russ barely affects the silhouette. The HH Demolisher variant does come with the wheel chair rockers, and that does affect the silhouette more dramatically, but not meaningfully. Sponsons were optional for a very long time, and technically still are, the free wargear has just made it stupid to not take them, but there is no way every option is going to remain free forever, they even have financial incentives to not leave it that way, more reasons to buy another box.
If these didnt already exist in 40k from imperial armor books you'd have a point with this specifically, but these sculpts were designed before the call to segregate the systems, with very minor detailings changed on the journey to plastic.
Very few people are going to take umbrage with the use of the HH Vindicator, Predator, Proteus, or Russ unless they are actual low functioning OCD retards. You may bump into some issues with trying to run a HH basilisk in 40k, as it does not use the chimera chasis, but even that most people will let slide considering it's going to be out of line of sight 98% of the game anyway and does not require LoS to fire. It IS sad that leviathans and deredos are mostly lost, and that the best admech models are not usable. At least some of them can be used as count-as but they should really allow the use of the Thanatar or create something that draws inspiration from it for 40k.
No, I meant the new landraider proteus. The spartan isn't even close. That aside, the landraider proteus and the regular landraider are also way off. Not sure why there's a rhino in the image, but here's a comparison.
And GW could have taken the plastic HH vindicator as a replacement for the 40k version, but didn't, or include a front plow that at least matched the width of the 40k version but didn't.
The exhaust on the 30k rhino chassis makes up for the width difference to the point of being negligible. The dozer blade on the other hand isn't even close and would just be cheating, same as the shorter landraider proteus. Yes GW has said it's fine, GW is also fucking retarded(if they weren't, we wouldn't be having this discussion), Either of these vehicles should be called out to a TO at an event unless the TO is an idiot, especially with WTC terrain layouts that get so bad at times you can't even deploy some 40k vehicles.
In a random casual pickup game, no it doesn't matter so long as you expect it to be played as if it had the extra width. Tournaments(you mentioned TOs) it should matter because its modeling for advantage. It's the same as leaving the extra bits off of the eldar wave serpent that would otherwise widen the profile to the point where the model couldn't fit the same way a falcon can. If 40k had silhouettes or specified model volumes based off of the base sizes(and actually had bases on everything) this would be easily avoidable. It's cheating, and there's no justification for it.
The leman russ sponsons being missing are fine, as long as you aren't pretending those weapons are also there when they aren't. At least the wheelie bar can be removed from the back of the 30k version to resolve the length issue.
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- Jan 3, 2023
I've seen this image, the Proteus isn't even fully built here, the treads are missing and they make a huge difference.
This issue also arises for infantry, as conversions and kitbashes are rampant, and it's handled fairly loosely, the main issues simply being base sizes being appropriate and readability for WYSIWYG, and if those conditions are met that seems to satisfy.
If the TO outlined that it was allowed it isn't cheating. No one is debating that there isn't an impact on distance measurements for ranged weapons or getting into engagement range. If you want things to be uniform then buy the old kits and only attend events where they enforce harsh requirements, the forgeworld designs and HH kits were not replacement goods, they were speciality "bonus" products to begin with for enthusiasts, and now they have their own home and contained enviornment. The Deimos Vindicator WAS allowed in 40k already before this, you could even take the laser destroyer variant, it's not some new devious plan that James schemed. Yes, they COULD have added on to the kit with a dozer blade, but that would not correct the fact that the deimos vindicator by definition is not the regular vindicator, if it was there would be no reason to buy it - it's a different kit.
I wasn't even referring to distance regarding getting weapon ranges or getting into engagement. It's a major problem because it means that the smaller models can fit in places that the larger versions wouldn't. The difference between the landraiders isn't even minor either. The threads on the landraider proteus don't make up for the huge difference in length(just look at it in the image you provided, that's a massive difference) or the width of the sponsons.
Indeed, but because the base sizes are at least standardized then it's not much of an issue as long as someone didn't decide to model all of their guardsmen as being seated or something stupid(which would again be modeling for advantage).
But when you're talking about vehicles and where they can even fit between terrain pieces...
And it shouldn't have been without express permission from a TO if we're talking about tournaments. The gun doesn't particularly matter, it's the dozer blade that is the problem. Again, casual pick up game do whatever you want. Hell, even some casual RTT do whatever you want. If I see that shit at the table I'm on at a GT, I'm calling the TO over.
Suddenly bein able to fit an entire base in front of a vehicle where one otherwise wouldn't fit, or squeeze a vehicle between gaps it wouldn't normally fit, is ridiculous. I'm not James Workshop, I don't care if someone shows up with a 3d printed proxy or kitbash but it should at least be reasonably close to the size of the actual model. With the case of the landraider proteus, it clearly isn't. Same goes with the extra tabs on the front of the wave serpent and that doesn't even have the excuse of being a 30k model that was previously from FW. Modeling for advantage is cheating. If it weren't, then we'd all just print our vehicles 15% smaller and claim it's for "ease of transport" or some other nonsense.
If they did get permission from a TO, then they can produce the email showing that. I've never seen that stuff just allowed as a blanket rule on a player packet for an event(they usually request you contact the TO in advance for approval).
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- Jan 3, 2023
You can do this right now with the Heresy Rhino's Ram spikes, and just the same with the Chaos Rhinos, there is no requirement to model them with it
The optional spikes are not the same as the dozer plate on the 40k vindicator being wider than the body, or that the hull of the landraider proteus is significantly smaller than the 40k landraider. Yes, the rhino spikes are an optional part of the kit people leave off.
I'm talking specifically about the smaller 30k versions of the models being able to fit in locations and positions the larger ones cannot. I can't just "optionally" cut an inch off the back of a landraider, leave the sponsons off, and expect anyone to accept that because it would be cheating. Just the same as leaving the fins off of the front of the wave serpent to give it the same profile as the falcon would be cheating and allowing it to fit in places it otherwise could not.
Notice how I'm also not referring to the height difference between the two landraiders, because that's basically irrelevant and doesn't impact where it can go on the table.
edit: At least it's nice to actually get to discuss actually playing the game every once in a while in this thread.
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