Warriors / Erin Hunter - Frustrating Characters

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Toolbox said:
I know this is old, but I don't think this was close to true even then. Community watch has several threads that fit coverage of specific fandoms, and there's also animal control which just is a board for a fandom.
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Guess i didn't notice the unofficial rules changing, thanks! - @Bluestar mentions the TennelleFlowers drama as well as the removal of a 'terf' from the writing team (gillian?), and there have been several other email campaigns to the authors, so maybe a write up of the biggest cows/names/dramas could be interesting. A lot of the stuff is just petty twitter beef but aren't we all just here to observe autists fighting? Off the top of my head there is the Drakinator drama (afaik sending furry porn to minors); EphemeralMoth's recent callout; CheetahZ and the school shooting stuff; all the "racism" stuff including a the feather doc (linked above) that constantly gets passed around like some kind of bible; the INSANE amount of cat porn fanfic written; the email campaigns over disabled characters and characters saying mean stuff in the series; the youtube community- including fights over characters and how liking them makes you an abuser etc; the MAP community- including drama about song choices and everyone trying to out-do each other in concepts with multiple callouts and drama; Western artists vs Eastern artists (as seen on the rest of twitter tbh); the constant complaints over 'xenophobia' in the series when two cat groups (Clans) don't like each other and are mean to one another, complaints about the series religion, the lack of gay rep, > which led to the 'im leaving the fandom and my autistic cat OC world is now going to get changed and im changing all the lingo from ThunderClan to ThunderClowder because i no longer associate with warriors dont compare me to them i swear my ocs are unique now' frenzy. Oh and all the e-begging for being some flavour of poc or gay. Observationally the community seems to be a constant fight of someone trying to outdo the last callout on another artist/the authors of the seires/animator/etc, sticking their nose into drama to give their take on a situation they aren't involved in, and ironically everyone else complaining about how bad the drama in the wc fandom is.

and to answer (quote is broken) "why does the fandom attract so much drama? Is it that it serves as a gateway to the furry fandom? Is it just the natural result of adults being fans of properties that are made for 12 year olds? Why are so many SJWs into a series that is basically about furry ethnostates?" - its because its a childrens series imho. it plays it very safe and has huge potential for OCs and the like (as Sealbaby points out). The series doesn't tackle any 'deep' issues, and any attempt to have any 'deeper' themes or nuance is shut down by screaming on twitter or watered down by corporate meddling; the community is also very large and becoming a 'big name' in it is like heroin to some shut in who never really grew up and wants adoring fans for mspaint art. a lot of the names are 18+ but there is also a shocking amount of 12-14 year olds and the phrase 'parasocial relationship with fans' gets thrown around in callouts. This was long and autistic but this is KF. Like I said, i'd be interested in doing a small write up of the larger dramas if anyone knows anything/is interested in collabing, especially of when the fandom and authors come into conflict or the more degenerate behaviour
 
Heinrich Maneuver said:
Guess i didn't notice the unofficial rules changing, thanks! - @Bluestar mentions the TennelleFlowers drama as well as the removal of a 'terf' from the writing team (gillian?), and there have been several other email campaigns to the authors, so maybe a write up of the biggest cows/names/dramas could be interesting. A lot of the stuff is just petty twitter beef but aren't we all just here to observe autists fighting? Off the top of my head there is the Drakinator drama (afaik sending furry porn to minors); EphemeralMoth's recent callout; CheetahZ and the school shooting stuff; all the "racism" stuff including a the feather doc (linked above) that constantly gets passed around like some kind of bible; the INSANE amount of cat porn fanfic written; the email campaigns over disabled characters and characters saying mean stuff in the series; the youtube community- including fights over characters and how liking them makes you an abuser etc; the MAP community- including drama about song choices and everyone trying to out-do each other in concepts with multiple callouts and drama; Western artists vs Eastern artists (as seen on the rest of twitter tbh); the constant complaints over 'xenophobia' in the series when two cat groups (Clans) don't like each other and are mean to one another, complaints about the series religion, the lack of gay rep, > which led to the 'im leaving the fandom and my autistic cat OC world is now going to get changed and im changing all the lingo from ThunderClan to ThunderClowder because i no longer associate with warriors dont compare me to them i swear my ocs are unique now' frenzy. Oh and all the e-begging for being some flavour of poc or gay. Observationally the community seems to be a constant fight of someone trying to outdo the last callout on another artist/the authors of the seires/animator/etc, sticking their nose into drama to give their take on a situation they aren't involved in, and ironically everyone else complaining about how bad the drama in the wc fandom is.

and to answer (quote is broken) "why does the fandom attract so much drama? Is it that it serves as a gateway to the furry fandom? Is it just the natural result of adults being fans of properties that are made for 12 year olds? Why are so many SJWs into a series that is basically about furry ethnostates?" - its because its a childrens series imho. it plays it very safe and has huge potential for OCs and the like (as Sealbaby points out). The series doesn't tackle any 'deep' issues, and any attempt to have any 'deeper' themes or nuance is shut down by screaming on twitter or watered down by corporate meddling; the community is also very large and becoming a 'big name' in it is like heroin to some shut in who never really grew up and wants adoring fans for mspaint art. a lot of the names are 18+ but there is also a shocking amount of 12-14 year olds and the phrase 'parasocial relationship with fans' gets thrown around in callouts. This was long and autistic but this is KF. Like I said, i'd be interested in doing a small write up of the larger dramas if anyone knows anything/is interested in collabing, especially of when the fandom and authors come into conflict or the more degenerate behaviour
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Wait, what the fuck was the school shooting drama? I’ve heard of everything else you mentioned but I’ve never heard of CheetahZ.

Draikinator has a lot more to her than just sending porn to minors, though that was the worst thing they did. Tbh, I think they’re a lolcow in their own right separate from the fandom - I looked into her once and JFC, she’s a 28 year old “nonbinary” mental wreck who trafficked themself to the Chinese mainland at ~20 because she hated her family and is autistically obsessed with children’s literature/Transformers. Her art style is fucking abysmal and she’s been getting in insane fandom drama since at least 2015. Maybe even further, that’s as far back as I’ve managed to trace her. She only got popular because her art style is so low quality that she was able to upload an “animation” a day when all the other, better animators had like one a month.

The Erin who got kicked off for wrongthink was Gillian Philip, yeah. I don’t think she wrote warriors? She wrote Survivors if I recall correctly. The whole Erin Hunter authorship thing is bananas. I don’t think there’s any overlap between the people who wrote Warriors and the people who wrote Survivors/Seekers/Bravelands. It’s just a weird authorship brand that HarperCollins created. I’ve never seen anything else like it.

I think it has potential for a community lolcow writeup, but TBH I feel like if you don’t already know how warrior cats works a bunch of the drama would make like no sense. It would definitely be entertaining for those who already know about it, but I don’t feel it’d have much outside appeal.

The SJW shit is annoying too, and it’s weird because it’s not like the fans are exactly wrong that the series is xenophobic? In the earlier series especially a lot of the morals are that race mixing is bad and you should be loyal to your own nation above all else. I’m confused as to how this series developed such a left wing fanbase (I know in my heart the answer is teenage girls.) Back in like 2017 one of TennelleFlowers/Moonkitti (another annoying individual)’s friends, LZRD WZRD, a warrior cat analyst, got chased out of the fandom because they discovered that he was a really Christian trump supporter.

Honestly I could go on for hours. The more I talk about it the more I remember.
 
@Bluestar Urgh I wish reply would work - holy fuck i forgot about LZRDWZRD, afaik he was one of the only legitimately gay guys in the fandom (as opposed to all the other aidens) so he wasn't going to last. Moonkitti is a fucking drama magnet, and her voice drives me up the wall from clips i've seen (so does Tennelle's tbh). I agree the drama is a very specific brand of 'insane tumblr/twitter lunatics with a lot of specific moments' but Draik could do with a write up? Did not know about the trafficking to China stuff, I know she is/was active in the lion king fandom- another autistic drama hotbed.
The school shooting drama refers to CheetahZ's film-noir themed map which featured a scene of a kit/child being shot by the antagonist. queue the 'must protect the 12 year olds on youtube' discussions and claims that this scene was innappropriate after the Uvalde shooting, from artists who aren't involved in the project including this tweet by frankiebcatt (notorious dramawhore) which features the classic 'typing my thoughts out on the notes app and screenshotting it because a 140 word tweet is not enough', it was then cancelled; this tweet is in defence of the project and points out how tags can stop people watching triggering content; I think the original tweet has gone but the TL;DR was that the scene was too insensitive, more kvetching here, even more about Cheetz other crimes in the fandom, including 'racist' depictions of cats which led to other maps being changed/altered to appease the bitching.
 
Heinrich Maneuver said:
@Bluestar Urgh I wish reply would work - holy fuck i forgot about LZRDWZRD, afaik he was one of the only legitimately gay guys in the fandom (as opposed to all the other aidens) so he wasn't going to last. Moonkitti is a fucking drama magnet, and her voice drives me up the wall from clips i've seen (so does Tennelle's tbh). I agree the drama is a very specific brand of 'insane tumblr/twitter lunatics with a lot of specific moments' but Draik could do with a write up? Did not know about the trafficking to China stuff, I know she is/was active in the lion king fandom- another autistic drama hotbed.
The school shooting drama refers to CheetahZ's film-noir themed map which featured a scene of a kit/child being shot by the antagonist. queue the 'must protect the 12 year olds on youtube' discussions and claims that this scene was innappropriate after the Uvalde shooting, from artists who aren't involved in the project including this tweet by frankiebcatt (notorious dramawhore) which features the classic 'typing my thoughts out on the notes app and screenshotting it because a 140 word tweet is not enough', it was then cancelled; this tweet is in defence of the project and points out how tags can stop people watching triggering content; I think the original tweet has gone but the TL;DR was that the scene was too insensitive, more kvetching here, even more about Cheetz other crimes in the fandom, including 'racist' depictions of cats which led to other maps being changed/altered to appease the bitching.
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Don’t worry about reply lol.

I don’t actually know that much about Moonkitti. I remember her very vaguely from my days on the old official forums. I think we may have had a few conversations back there in 2012-2013 when she was part of the Ashfur defense squad? Her voice is annoying as fuck though.

Draik has been a personal cow of mine for a few years, so I have a few of her accounts, though I haven’t gone on THAT deep of a dive and she is extremely online so there’s absolutely more. This bitch is PROLIFIC on Ao3. She used to be big into Undertale way back when.

Main Tumblr (this is her old tumblr, it requires login to view so I can’t look at it)
Tumblr (so much Transformers sperging. This woman is 28 JFC)
YouTube
Art Tumblr
Ao3 THREE HUNDRED PIECES OF TRANSFORMERS FANFICTION
Carrd
Book Carrd

She’s also an author now? Apparently? She said she was writing a book but the amazon link she listed there is dead. It’s self published so... Not assuming great things on the quality.

I didn’t really look at the china story too in depth but if you search “china“ on the polyhexian tumblr you can find a few mentions of it. Tldr she moved to China by herself as a teenager without knowing the language for some reason. Apparently she moved illegally through various shenanigans and there may be an arrest warrant??

The basic rundown of her cancellation is: Spottedfire (I think was her name), another WC fanartist got called out for drawing feral porn (just porn of real looking cats), Draikinator (incapable of staying out of drama) whined about this, some 14 year old called them “a slug“ for seemingly unrelated reasons in their dms in response, Draik in turn sent this 14 year old the uncensored feral porn. Draik was in her mid 20s at the time. And so she was kicked out of the warriors fandom. Everyone involved is stupid.

Also the fucking gun violence thing HAHAHA. It’s kind of sad tbh. A few of the more creatively inclined members of the fandom clearly want to tell more interesting stories than the confines of warriors allow, but they’ve limited themselves in these fandom spaces, and every time they try to deviate the SJWs eat their own with anything that’s slightly “problematic”.
 
Bluestar said:
Don’t worry about reply lol.

I don’t actually know that much about Moonkitti. I remember her very vaguely from my days on the old official forums. I think we may have had a few conversations back there in 2012-2013 when she was part of the Ashfur defense squad? Her voice is annoying as fuck though.

Draik has been a personal cow of mine for a few years, so I have a few of her accounts, though I haven’t gone on THAT deep of a dive and she is extremely online so there’s absolutely more. This bitch is PROLIFIC on Ao3. She used to be big into Undertale way back when.

Main Tumblr (this is her old tumblr, it requires login to view so I can’t look at it)
Tumblr (so much Transformers sperging. This woman is 28 JFC)
YouTube
Art Tumblr
Ao3 THREE HUNDRED PIECES OF TRANSFORMERS FANFICTION
Carrd
Book Carrd

She’s also an author now? Apparently? She said she was writing a book but the amazon link she listed there is dead. It’s self published so... Not assuming great things on the quality.

I didn’t really look at the china story too in depth but if you search “china“ on the polyhexian tumblr you can find a few mentions of it. Tldr she moved to China by herself as a teenager without knowing the language for some reason. Apparently she moved illegally through various shenanigans and there may be an arrest warrant??

The basic rundown of her cancellation is: Spottedfire (I think was her name), another WC fanartist got called out for drawing feral porn (just porn of real looking cats), Draikinator (incapable of staying out of drama) whined about this, some 14 year old called them “a slug“ for seemingly unrelated reasons in their dms in response, Draik in turn sent this 14 year old the uncensored feral porn. Draik was in her mid 20s at the time. And so she was kicked out of the warriors fandom. Everyone involved is stupid.

Also the fucking gun violence thing HAHAHA. It’s kind of sad tbh. A few of the more creatively inclined members of the fandom clearly want to tell more interesting stories than the confines of warriors allow, but they’ve limited themselves in these fandom spaces, and every time they try to deviate the SJWs eat their own with anything that’s slightly “problematic”.
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Jesus Christ, the WC fandom is even more dickshit than I thought, what the fuck.

You also know of the Cloverkit drama? Yeah, never heard of it either until I watched Izzy (she often lists up all the fandoms from Animal Jam to Miiverse, and if you want to look, she has videos on internet culture I didn't even know ever existed...)

Look at Minute 23:50, the Cloverkit drama is absolute Kindergarten (as is the whole fandom).
She also covers the Sue Drama, Wiki Drama and the appearance fights (I always hated how the fandom would tear you apart because you forgot a spot on Spottedleaf or something).
It's funny because the adults on WC somehow are more childish and autistic than the actual children drawing their OCs in MS Paint.
 
I can't believe how many more of these fucking books there are now than when I was a kid. I stopped reading once they had to abandon their original forest because of deforestation or whatever, and there was that edgy Shadow the Hedgehog cat who could kill Cats with 9 lives with one swipe because his claws were just that sharp. And I think his name was like Cursed or something.

They were okay for kids stuff, but like any series that goes on for too long it gets progressively more masturbatory and stupid as the bookcount hits triple digits and tie-ins take off.
 
Mega Black said:
there was that edgy Shadow the Hedgehog cat who could kill Cats with 9 lives with one swipe because his claws were just that sharp. And I think his name was like Cursed or something.
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His name was Scourge and it was because he
1) had dog teeth on his claws
2) tore Tigerstar's vital organs so that he died 9 times.

I was obsessed with Warriors as a kid and the cat murder and political drama was tattooed across my hippocampus.
 
Apis mellifera said:
His name was Scourge and it was because he
1) had dog teeth on his claws
2) tore Tigerstar's vital organs so that he died 9 times.

I was obsessed with Warriors as a kid and the cat murder and political drama was tattooed across my hippocampus.
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Oh yeah that's it, fuck knows how a cat was able get dog teeth on his claws but it was pretty fucking metal for a kids book.

Worth noting also it looks like there's several other Warriors style series now, starring different animals, printed under the Erin Hunter name. Are those any good? My gut instinct tells me no, but I can't deny my curiosity.
 
Mega Black said:
Oh yeah that's it, fuck knows how a cat was able get dog teeth on his claws but it was pretty fucking metal for a kids book.

Worth noting also it looks like there's several other Warriors style series now, starring different animals, printed under the Erin Hunter name. Are those any good? My gut instinct tells me no, but I can't deny my curiosity.
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I read the first survivor arc, and it was pretty decent. I personally quite liked it, though I have the feeling they wanted to make it darker but couldn’t because of the ‘children book’ issue. In my opinion it should’ve been directed towards an older audience, by making it a children book they couldn’t make use of the full potential. Not that Erin Hunter puts a lot of effort into any of their books.
The second arc however… Jesus it’s so god awful I had to stop after 2 books and completely forget it after that. Literally 2 pages of plot and the rest is filler, no joke.

I also read Seekers, also pretty decent. Didn’t finish it yet as I got them from my school library and they only had till book 7 or 8. Though the one thing I hated about it is how woke it was with one of their characters (Ujurak) who purely only served to ”show how evil the human world is!” and made him so mysteriooouus he barely ever spoke and yeah trash character.

Didn’t read Bravelands but heard it’s okay.

I just googled and there are now new books from Erin hunter called Bamboo Kingdom, it’s about three Pandas. And guess what, if you read the premise, it’s literally Warriors paired with Seekers, spot on. God I’m tired of Erin Hunter and their Warriors copies and replicas.
 
I ultimately liked Bravelands. There was at least an actual conflict and not a lot of needless filler like in Warriors. Both of the villains are cliche pure-evil, but they're at least credible threats.
 
I remember liking them as a kid, but the lady who wrote them didn't know anything about cats (she wrote them because a friend asked her to) and it shows because the cat society is nothing like real cat society.

Which fair enough, kids books, but when I look for xenofiction I'm mostly interested in seeing real animal behaviors or plausible animal stories being told in human language. Cats basically consist of cores of females that share litters (they'll often nurse each others kittens) but not so much resources (they feed themselves), with common clan-like descent, and a periphery of males that, related or not, stay in a state of warfare with each other. Females will kill each other outside of the core and males kill each other frequently. Cat jizz stays in the cat vagina long after penetration, so females frequently give birth to multi-father litters, and both female and male killing of rival kittens cats is common. If toned down for younger children, you could imagine female clans of cats and then the males are like adventurers that range farther and compete over the females (but in the silly, humorous way romance is portrayed in children's fiction).

Which again, Warriors doesn't need to accurately portray cats anymore than Redwall needs to accurately portray varmints, but since they're still cats and not anthropomorphic the treatment of them feels weird. I mean, something like Hank the Cowdog (which I grew up on) depicts dogs and coyotes and other Texan critters in a way much more consistent with their real behaviors. At least to my recollection, I haven't read one since I was in elementary school.

I have three ideas for a cat novel, one set in Appalachia, one in Istanbul, and one in Leningrad.

The Appalachia idea is just drawn from my observations of barn cats (not literal barn cats, but I refer to any exclusively outdoor cat loosely kept by a person, in the manner that one feeds birds or squirrels, as a barn cat), core-and-periphery dynamic. I can picture the toms being something like knights errant/champions in violent competition to build and conquer harems while surviving against the ridiculous number of things (coyotes, specifically) that kill cats.

The Istanbul one comes from the Istanbul practice of treating their large stray population as a sort of community pet. Islam venerates cats, regards them as being holy animals that have a close connection to God. I don't know much more about it than that, but I could imagine the setting of Istanbul with cats having their own supernatural/religious conflict going on, something like Pentecostal spiritual warfare but in a Muslim setting involving the cats as guardians of the population.

The Leningrad one is that during WW2, the Soviets imported cats to Leningrad (many of them pets volunteered) to catch mice to protect the dwindling food supply, yet often they were hunted by the locals for food, and there was also the Hermitage that had its famous mousers (killed off in the War). I think somebody could do a really grim story with that about the dwindling food supply forcing more extreme and desperate conflict for survival, the ironic contradictions of protecting and being preyed upon by the natives who finally turn on each other, and so on.

For as much as cats are infantilized, portrayed as cute, they are very noble and violent creatures. Each is basically just a miniaturized tiger, and they have incredibly athletic bodies that are capable of scaling huge (relative to them) structures in a bound, jumping very fast, vicious claws and bites and rabbit-footing. They are faster, tougher, and stealthier than most of what they hunt, and they live independent lives in a state of conflict with everything around them. They relate to humans in a more transactional and voluntary way (whereas dogs are predisposed to subjugation in a social order) and are natural explorers. Even the way they instinctively claim the high ground - preferring to get up on bookshelves and cat trees - shows their commanding nature, and when not slaughtering they lounge about, natural aristocrats. Champions.
 
I had a boxset of these books but they didn't really click with me. My favorite cat related book is Felidae, written by a Turk in Germany who leans very much to the right politically, which is unusual given his background. Felidae is a cat who investigates other cats being killed, they made an animated film of it to.
 
Okay, but can we talk about how despite being the best arc, the final battle of the first series is ultimately pointless because the forest is destroyed in the very next book?
DrNow said:
I had a boxset of these books but they didn't really click with me. My favorite cat related book is Felidae, written by a Turk in Germany who leans very much to the right politically, which is unusual given his background. Felidae is a cat who investigates other cats being killed, they made an animated film of it to.
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I have the first two books, and they're very good, if very purple-prose-y, and extremely pessimistic.

It's a shame the author is a fucking lunatic who'd make even the likes of /pol/ blush, though.
 
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DrNow said:
I had a boxset of these books but they didn't really click with me. My favorite cat related book is Felidae, written by a Turk in Germany who leans very much to the right politically, which is unusual given his background. Felidae is a cat who investigates other cats being killed, they made an animated film of it to.
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I remember randomly stubbling upon the English dub on YT back in my Warrior Cats phase, that sure was something. All I got from the movie was that the world sucks, so you may as well have lots of sex.

Did you lot ever read Varjak Paw? It popped into my head in this thread. Yet another cat book (good lord, no wonder I ended up getting diagnosed as an aspie, I was utterly obsessed with these), it's been many years since I've read it, but what I recall is that the main character is a member of some aristocratic cat breed (siamese? prussian blue?) and his owner dies, so some fuckers show up and start skinning his family and turning them into animatronics. There was something uniquely disturbing and fascinating about it that somehow stuck with me all these years. Fun book, yet another I'll have to re-read.
 
Ughubughughughughughghlug said:
I remember liking them as a kid, but the lady who wrote them didn't know anything about cats (she wrote them because a friend asked her to) and it shows because the cat society is nothing like real cat society.

Which fair enough, kids books, but when I look for xenofiction I'm mostly interested in seeing real animal behaviors or plausible animal stories being told in human language. Cats basically consist of cores of females that share litters (they'll often nurse each others kittens) but not so much resources (they feed themselves), with common clan-like descent, and a periphery of males that, related or not, stay in a state of warfare with each other. Females will kill each other outside of the core and males kill each other frequently. Cat jizz stays in the cat vagina long after penetration, so females frequently give birth to multi-father litters, and both female and male killing of rival kittens cats is common. If toned down for younger children, you could imagine female clans of cats and then the males are like adventurers that range farther and compete over the females (but in the silly, humorous way romance is portrayed in children's fiction).

Which again, Warriors doesn't need to accurately portray cats anymore than Redwall needs to accurately portray varmints, but since they're still cats and not anthropomorphic the treatment of them feels weird. I mean, something like Hank the Cowdog (which I grew up on) depicts dogs and coyotes and other Texan critters in a way much more consistent with their real behaviors. At least to my recollection, I haven't read one since I was in elementary school.

I have three ideas for a cat novel, one set in Appalachia, one in Istanbul, and one in Leningrad.

The Appalachia idea is just drawn from my observations of barn cats (not literal barn cats, but I refer to any exclusively outdoor cat loosely kept by a person, in the manner that one feeds birds or squirrels, as a barn cat), core-and-periphery dynamic. I can picture the toms being something like knights errant/champions in violent competition to build and conquer harems while surviving against the ridiculous number of things (coyotes, specifically) that kill cats.

The Istanbul one comes from the Istanbul practice of treating their large stray population as a sort of community pet. Islam venerates cats, regards them as being holy animals that have a close connection to God. I don't know much more about it than that, but I could imagine the setting of Istanbul with cats having their own supernatural/religious conflict going on, something like Pentecostal spiritual warfare but in a Muslim setting involving the cats as guardians of the population.

The Leningrad one is that during WW2, the Soviets imported cats to Leningrad (many of them pets volunteered) to catch mice to protect the dwindling food supply, yet often they were hunted by the locals for food, and there was also the Hermitage that had its famous mousers (killed off in the War). I think somebody could do a really grim story with that about the dwindling food supply forcing more extreme and desperate conflict for survival, the ironic contradictions of protecting and being preyed upon by the natives who finally turn on each other, and so on.

For as much as cats are infantilized, portrayed as cute, they are very noble and violent creatures. Each is basically just a miniaturized tiger, and they have incredibly athletic bodies that are capable of scaling huge (relative to them) structures in a bound, jumping very fast, vicious claws and bites and rabbit-footing. They are faster, tougher, and stealthier than most of what they hunt, and they live independent lives in a state of conflict with everything around them. They relate to humans in a more transactional and voluntary way (whereas dogs are predisposed to subjugation in a social order) and are natural explorers. Even the way they instinctively claim the high ground - preferring to get up on bookshelves and cat trees - shows their commanding nature, and when not slaughtering they lounge about, natural aristocrats. Champions.
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If you love accurate xenofiction, then you’re going to love Watership Down if you haven’t read it. Beautiful writing and the rabbits in it behave like rabbits.
 
I'm sorry but Warrior fans are starting to annoy me with this ableism brigade they are on. Like do they really think a cat with two useless back legs can do anything?


Sure a disabled cat can thrive in a safe controlled human run environment. But out in the wild? No way, even with other talking cat people to help them, they could never resume their former duties. Still having the ability to move isn't the same as still having the ability to...do your stupid cat job. I just find this upset ridiculous.
 
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Bambi Sammich said:
I'm sorry but Warrior fans are starting to annoy me with this ableism brigade they are on. Like do they really think a cat with two useless back legs can do anything?

https://youtube.com/watch?v=X9kqC8k0kGY
Sure a disabled cat can thrive in a safe controlled human run environment. But out in the wild? No way, even with other talking cat people to help them, they could never resume their former duties. Still having the ability to move isn't the same as still having the ability to...do your stupid cat job. I just find this upset ridiculous.
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To be fair, they do have a point about how the book treats being disabled as the worst thing ever, even if you're just minorly such. They're also not talking about Briarlight, but instead Squirrelflight, who just has a slight limp now which the book treats as being on par with how bad Briarlight had it. Say what you want, but that's just not true, and acting like it is is just stupid.

Personally, I think what happened is that Warriors played too fast and loose with the realism of their series. Sure, it's not realistic for a crippled cat to survive, but it's also not realistic for cats to have superpowers either. This wasn't an issue in the first arc where they balanced it out pretty well, but ever since the third arc decided to derail everything by handing out magical powers to cats left, and right, it's becoming a much bigger issue.

People still getting worked up over a book series about cats is still really dumb, though.
 
Yeah I know the focus is on Squirrelflight, but I was talking mostly about Briarlight, as the youtuber made it a point to show us domestic cats with actual missing or fully disabled limbs, as if to convince us that those pets could survive in a Warrior clan in any useful capacity. Though yes I should have made it clear that I wasn't considering Squirrelflight's limp or bum leg as a significantly hard disability.

3 legged animals can bounce back quickly if they are given time and safety. But I can understand how a permanent limp could still fuck up a feral cat in the long run, especially if it is in a leadership role. Which while insensitive, I don't think Sandstorm was being evil. This youtuber, along with many other fans, act like Briarlight stood a chance. I blame them for acting like these animals can build wheelchairs or learn how to fly. Magic or no magic, nothing I remember from this series seems to indicate these cats are that far advanced.
Bunny Tracks said:
To be fair, they do have a point about how the book treats being disabled as the worst thing ever, even if you're just minorly such. They're also not talking about Briarlight, but instead Squirrelflight, who just has a slight limp now which the book treats as being on par with how bad Briarlight had it. Say what you want, but that's just not true, and acting like it is is just stupid.

Personally, I think what happened is that Warriors played too fast and loose with the realism of their series. Sure, it's not realistic for a crippled cat to survive, but it's also not realistic for cats to have superpowers either. This wasn't an issue in the first arc where they balanced it out pretty well, but ever since the third arc decided to derail everything by handing out magical powers to cats left, and right, it's becoming a much bigger issue.

People still getting worked up over a book series about cats is still really dumb, though.
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