Welfare

[Count groudon]

Marvin, there is a huge difference between taxes going to roads and public services that everyone uses and people who sit on their ass all day building LEGO hugboxes, playing vidya, or just happened to shit out a few kids and dropped out of school. One is the greater good because it benefits everyone, one is just twselfish and lazy. I have no problem having my money go to schools, roads, national parks, the military, law enforcement, or EMS and fire fighters. Giving free money that someone else earned to someone that does nothing to benefit society is not the greater good.

And I'm done with my welfare ranting.

Sparklemillhouse, I'm honored to be on your ignore list.

...Wow. So basically people with actual severe mental handicaps, or people with serious illnesses, or debilitating disabilities don't deserve to be able to live? People who in no way could hold down a job through no fault of their own shouldn't be able to have a roof over their heads or food put in front of them?

I agree that spongers are the worst type of tax drain but don't tar everyone with the same brush.

Ok can we please stop arguing? This is getting nothing accomplished and it's just wasting everyone's time. You two have different views on things,please just accept that and let this be over with.

 

[Stuff and Things]

Marvin, there is a huge difference between taxes going to roads and public services that everyone uses and people who sit on their ass all day building LEGO hugboxes, playing vidya, or just happened to shit out a few kids and dropped out of school. One is the greater good because it benefits everyone, one is just twselfish and lazy. I have no problem having my money go to schools, roads, national parks, the military, law enforcement, or EMS and fire fighters. Giving free money that someone else earned to someone that does nothing to benefit society is not the greater good.

And I'm done with my welfare ranting.

Sparklemillhouse, I'm honored to be on your ignore list.

...Wow. So basically people with actual severe mental handicaps, or people with serious illnesses, or debilitating disabilities don't deserve to be able to live? People who in no way could hold down a job through no fault of their own shouldn't be able to have a roof over their heads or food put in front of them?

I agree that spongers are the worst type of tax drain but don't tar everyone with the same brush.

Ok can we please stop arguing? This is getting nothing accomplished and it's just wasting everyone's time. You two have different views on things,please just accept that and let this be over with.

Just say it this way: stop sperging and focus on the damn topic... man, it feels so good being able to say that

 

[Batman VS Tony Danza]

YOU GUYS ARE RUINING CHRISTMAS!!!

 

[The Dude]

YOU GUYS ARE RUINING CHRISTMAS!!!

But what about the spaghetti dinner?

 

[Mourning Dove]

Ok can we please stop arguing? This is getting nothing accomplished and it's just wasting everyone's time. You two have different views on things,please just accept that and let this be over with.

Just say it this way: stop sperging and focus on the damn topic... man, it feels so good being able to say that

I have an opinion just like many others about welfare. But if we are going to argue about the merits of the welfare system, then that topic belongs in General.

 

[Null]

 

[IanBrannanSOMETHING]

Ok can we please stop arguing? This is getting nothing accomplished and it's just wasting everyone's time. You two have different views on things,please just accept that and let this be over with.

You say this as though I made more than one post on the matter.

In theory, your post could be considered the same waste as it's not talking about the video at hand

 

[Uzumaki]

Marvin, there is a huge difference between taxes going to roads and public services that everyone uses and people who sit on their ass all day building LEGO hugboxes, playing vidya, or just happened to shit out a few kids and dropped out of school. One is the greater good because it benefits everyone, one is just twselfish and lazy. I have no problem having my money go to schools, roads, national parks, the military, law enforcement, or EMS and fire fighters. Giving free money that someone else earned to someone that does nothing to benefit society is not the greater good.

The pubic good it does is not having people starving in the streets, knifing people for a few dollars to eat or dying in a gutter. Do you really want to live in the America where everyone sinks or swims by their own merits? Because that's the American where half of the people are looking to rob you. Living in a country where you can go for a walk alone at night is just as important as paved fucking roads.

And I'm done with my welfare ranting.

Okay, but that doesn't give you the automatic last word.

 

[The Dude]

Marvin, there is a huge difference between taxes going to roads and public services that everyone uses and people who sit on their ass all day building LEGO hugboxes, playing vidya, or just happened to shit out a few kids and dropped out of school. One is the greater good because it benefits everyone, one is just twselfish and lazy. I have no problem having my money go to schools, roads, national parks, the military, law enforcement, or EMS and fire fighters. Giving free money that someone else earned to someone that does nothing to benefit society is not the greater good.

The pubic good it does is not having people starving in the streets, knifing people for a few dollars to eat or dying in a gutter. Do you really want to live in the America where everyone sinks or swims by their own merits? Because that's the American where half of the people are looking to rob you. Living in a country where you can go for a walk alone at night is just as important as paved fucking roads.

And I'm done with my welfare ranting.

Okay, but that doesn't give you the automatic last word.

Don't want to get robbed by some lowlife? Buy a gun, learn how to use it, get a concealed carry permit, learn how to defend yourself. Don't be a victim. Of course that is all under the assumption that you live in a place that allows you to own and carry a firearm. If you live in some draconian place that doesn't allow you to defend your life, your loved ones, and your property then I can't help you. Maybe you'll be lucky enough to have the police show up in time to get a statement before you bleed out.

As for helping people in need, great. I'm for it as long as It's only temporary until someone can support themselves again. They should also be required to be clean of drugs and doing community service to earn that money, something to benefit the community. They should be given incentive to go back out and earn for themselves again. I am not for welfare leeches who manipulate the system so they can live off my back without working a day in their lives.

I have three severely disabled cousins. One sadly passed away about ten years ago and his brother doesn't have much longer to live. They are on my Dad's side of the family. Neither of them could walk, they scooted around the house on their backsides when they weren't in wheelchairs. They communicated by grunts that nearly resembled speech. Neither of them we're on disability or any kind of welfare. My other cousin is on my Mother's side and when he was a baby his biological parents would hold him under water when he cried until he stopped. He was adopted by my Uncle and Aunt along with his sister who also has some disabilities. He cannot walk either, but he has a sharp mind still. Neither of them are on disability or collect welfare. He has a job in computers and tutoring despite his severe physical disabilities.

It's one thing to collect disability when there is no other option it support structure and you really cannot earn. It's another if You're someone like Chris who collects it simply because It's easier than working.

I know I said I was done, but since we have a dedicated thread now I'm weighing in again.

 

[Bgheff]

This thread makes me glad I was banned.

 

[Foulmouth]

I would gladly give a billionth of every penny I earn to brown people if I could give a twentieth of it to blowing up chris.
(Sorry Null)

 

[c-no]

not this topic again... it just brings out the worst in people.

It pretty much would bring out the worst in both sides.
Regarding welfare, I'm ambivalent towards it. I don't mind it helping people who need the money to buy the necessities like food but I do not like those who would sponge off the system. I can't say more since I'm more than willing to admit that I'm ignorant in the field of welfare.

 

[Kosher Dill]

As for helping people in need, great. I'm for it as long as It's only temporary until someone can support themselves again. They should also be required to be clean of drugs and doing community service to earn that money, something to benefit the community. They should be given incentive to go back out and earn for themselves again. I am not for welfare leeches who manipulate the system so they can live off my back without working a day in their lives

I think the real question is: or else what? What do you do with someone like Chris who absolutely will never work unless you literally enslave him? How much money do you spend on social workers, incentives, dragging him in and out of court, forcing him to do community service, etc?

 

[Pikonic]

People are expressing personal opinions here. Please be courteous and do not outright insult someone.

I probably shouldn't touch this thread with a thirty foot pole, but here it goes.

Nothing in existence is perfect (except apple flavored Toaster Strudles, do not listen to people who prefer strawberry) and welfare is no exception. I see we're talking welfare as a form of unemployment over disability. In this case I support welfare, so long as you are actively seeking work. When my boyfriend was laid off he got unemployment until he got his new job. Every month he called the Social Security Office in RI and was asked if he was actively seeking work. Do people lie? Yes, but that is going to happen whether we like it or not. I think we sometimes let the minority speak for the majority. Unemployment sucks ass and most people want to work, but all we hear about are the welfare queens buying sirloin and play stations with our money. This minority sucks, I get that, but I'd rather these people have money along with the hard working people who just got laid off for uncontrollable reasons than for the latter to have nothing. I see my taxmoney that goes to these programs as kinda insurance, for one day I might lose my job.
Now onto disability (Chris)
I have a friend who suffers from MS and another with sever anxiety. I've known these people for years, they are nice people but the reality is they cannot work. I promise you these two would love jobs that pay much higher than what they receive but they can not work (one mentally can not, one physically can not) Who are we to say, "well, I guess you're a starving hobo, sorry bitch". The reality is Chris can't work at this point in his life. What will he do? Retail? Food Service? Costomer Service? IT? He can't do these, he has the mentality of a child. As I stated before the system isn't perfect, but I'll pay for Chris if it gives my friends who need it a roof over their head and food on their tables.

TLR The system isn't perfect, but I'm glad the people who truly need it have it.

 

[hellbound]

I'm probably going to be one of the few to agree with the Dude here, but I agree that welfare, at least to the extent we have it now, is a HUGE error.

It is pitiable that there are people there unable to work. Absolutely, I will 100% agree. It is unfortunate that there are those who are looking and can't find it, and those who can only find meager wages, it really is.

But, and I hate to say it, life is hard. It always has been, and it always will be. And people talk in terms of it being charitable. It's not, it's base theft. Charity is when you pay from your own pocket, not vote to pay from somebody else's.

We have a system where other people's money buys chips, soda, candy, cakes, practically any food you want (about the only restriction is it's not prepared, and even that not always). Why is it acceptable that somebody who is taking from others to spend it on luxury foods, particularly unhealthy luxury foods, rather than bare necessities?

We have a system where other people's money buys video games, televisions, toys, electronics, essentially anything you want. Hell, look at Chris. Why is that acceptable? That's not helping somebody survive a rough patch.

We have a system that essentially encourages people to have children they can't afford so they can get more money. If you're on welfare, you shouldn't be having kids in the first place. Why do we subsidize poor choices?

At what point did we decide it was the responsibility of everybody else to provide for our own retirement? You have millions of Americans who don't put aside anything for themselves, counting on a system rapidly shooting past bankruptcy to support them when they're too old to work. It may have worked if we had the life expectancy and birth rates we did when it was instituted, but it won't work for much longer the way things are.

At what point did we decide it was the responsibility of everybody else to provide our healthcare? It's the fault of the fucked-up system that began to treat health insurance as a way of paying for basic care rather than management of risk that healthcare became so expensive in the first place, so we institute laws to further that dependency and completely remove the ability of health insurance companies to manage risk at all! And then we wonder why premiums are skyrocketing and people are getting dropped left and right.

It is a cold, hard, sad reality that not everybody can live comfortably in this world. What the welfare system as it is now does, is send us spiraling so far into debt we might as well not even keep track, drag down those who are willing and able to work hard, and remove incentive for many to even try. If you're satisfied with a welfare lifestyle, why bother working at any level above what you need to get a welfare lifestyle? And by perpetually increasing the welfare lifestyle, you find more and more people willing to accept it.

I'm not even sure I'm opposed to things like TANF and workfare, but those need to be temporary measures to support people who are legitimately between jobs. There should be no cradle-to-grave from the government. Charity is another matter.

 

[Foulmouth]

Basically welfare should be to help people get back on their feet, not to pay them to sit on their arse.

 

[The Dude]

As for helping people in need, great. I'm for it as long as It's only temporary until someone can support themselves again. They should also be required to be clean of drugs and doing community service to earn that money, something to benefit the community. They should be given incentive to go back out and earn for themselves again. I am not for welfare leeches who manipulate the system so they can live off my back without working a day in their lives

I think the real question is: or else what? What do you do with someone like Chris who absolutely will never work unless you literally enslave him? How much money do you spend on social workers, incentives, dragging him in and out of court, forcing him to do community service, etc?

I guess I'm just a cold, heartless conservative bastard (as many of you must assume I am) but lazy ass people like Chris should be cut loose. No one should be given a free ticket to ride simply because they are unable to work. Sink or swim, simple as that. I pointed to my disabled cousins as examples as people in worse condition than Chris who still are able to work. Of my two cousins who can't even talk, both of them had jobs and worked for many years until one passed on and the others health became too poor for him to do so anymore. My other cousin, who can talk but is still severely physically handicapped, works hard and earns his own way. Chris has no excuse other than his parents allowed (encouraged really) him to be lazy, which is no excuse at all.

I'm probably going to be one of the few to agree with the Dude here, but I agree that welfare, at least to the extent we have it now, is a HUGE error.

It is pitiable that there are people there unable to work. Absolutely, I will 100% agree. It is unfortunate that there are those who are looking and can't find it, and those who can only find meager wages, it really is.

But, and I hate to say it, life is hard. It always has been, and it always will be. And people talk in terms of it being charitable. It's not, it's base theft. Charity is when you pay from your own pocket, not vote to pay from somebody else's.

We have a system where other people's money buys chips, soda, candy, cakes, practically any food you want (about the only restriction is it's not prepared, and even that not always). Why is it acceptable that somebody who is taking from others to spend it on luxury foods, particularly unhealthy luxury foods, rather than bare necessities?

We have a system where other people's money buys video games, televisions, toys, electronics, essentially anything you want. Hell, look at Chris. Why is that acceptable? That's not helping somebody survive a rough patch.

We have a system that essentially encourages people to have children they can't afford so they can get more money. If you're on welfare, you shouldn't be having kids in the first place. Why do we subsidize poor choices?

At what point did we decide it was the responsibility of everybody else to provide for our own retirement? You have millions of Americans who don't put aside anything for themselves, counting on a system rapidly shooting past bankruptcy to support them when they're too old to work. It may have worked if we had the life expectancy and birth rates we did when it was instituted, but it won't work for much longer the way things are.

At what point did we decide it was the responsibility of everybody else to provide our healthcare? It's the fault of the fucked-up system that began to treat health insurance as a way of paying for basic care rather than management of risk that healthcare became so expensive in the first place, so we institute laws to further that dependency and completely remove the ability of health insurance companies to manage risk at all! And then we wonder why premiums are skyrocketing and people are getting dropped left and right.

It is a cold, hard, sad reality that not everybody can live comfortably in this world. What the welfare system as it is now does, is send us spiraling so far into debt we might as well not even keep track, drag down those who are willing and able to work hard, and remove incentive for many to even try. If you're satisfied with a welfare lifestyle, why bother working at any level above what you need to get a welfare lifestyle? And by perpetually increasing the welfare lifestyle, you find more and more people willing to accept it.

I'm not even sure I'm opposed to things like TANF and workfare, but those need to be temporary measures to support people who are legitimately between jobs. There should be no cradle-to-grave from the government. Charity is another matter.

Very eloquent. Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[QI 541]

I guess I'm just a cold, heartless conservative bastard (as many of you must assume I am) but lazy ass people like Chris should be cut loose. No one should be given a free ticket to ride simply because they are unable to work. Sink or swim, simple as that.

You know, most conservatives build a strawman where they represent all welfare recipients as leeches and abusers. I rarely see them outright state that they would deny welfare to those who legitimately need it.

 

[The Dude]

I guess I'm just a cold, heartless conservative bastard (as many of you must assume I am) but lazy ass people like Chris should be cut loose. No one should be given a free ticket to ride simply because they are unable to work. Sink or swim, simple as that.

You know, most conservatives build a strawman where they represent all welfare recipients as leeches and abusers. I rarely see them outright state that they would deny welfare to those who legitimately need it.

If someone legitimately needs it, they are so crippled or mentally handicapped that there is no possible way of supporting themselves, then yeah, help those people out. Chris isn't one of those people. There are many people who are on welfare, and I mean MANY, that do not fall into that category. But there are also many people with worse problems, mental or physical, than Chris who don't require taxpayer funded tugboats to get by in life.

 

[QI 541]

If someone legitimately needs it, they are so crippled or mentally handicapped that there is no possible way of supporting themselves, then yeah, help those people out.

Then you should really reword what you said. Saying things like you would have people who are "unable to work" sink means something significantly more psychotic than "i hate welfare abusers".