Were incels avoidable?

cybertoaster

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Casual convo with coworkers, one mentioned his brother was essentially a wizard (not those words, these are all normies) and described him as loveshy.

Thought that term was a meme/copout, turns out its a real psychological term, love-shyness, and entire studies about it were made back in the 1970s, the participants were all what we would currently call incels.

But here's the thing: this new condition wasn't accepted by the WHO or the American Psychiatric Association. They all ignored this and let it fester.

Lets say the opposite happened and therapy was targeted at this, would incels still exist today?
 
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Incels and femcels are usually people with rejection trauma, which society doesn't seem to acknowledge or recognize so they don't find a proper way to work through it and instead fall into echo chambers that make it worse.

So it's a split issue between 50% mental healthcare sucking, and 50% the Internet sucking.
 
The muslims had incels for hundreds of years.
A society with polygamy automatically has.
Middle and high class men have multiple wives, a substantial part of the lower class none at all.

It is different now though, because it is not like polygamous couplings form around a single man.
Chads continue to fuck 20-40 year olds all their life, while many normal men pair up, but a SIGNIFICANT amount of normal women, normal men, and an even bigger percentage of below average men and women don't pair up and stay alone in their middle age and age.

We humans are not able to manage sexuality without a guiding culture, it seems.
Western "dating" and relations between the sexes is broken, and society is declining rapidly in stability because of it.
It is simple, a society with stable families is a stable society. The family is the smallest building block of civilization, not the individual.
 
Define incel, both in terms of qualifications and behaviors.

This dude theoretically got to fuck Tory Ojeda on a regular basis, but in practice he's done more damage than most people who get called incels online.
 
Yeah, we’d still have them. Just like I’m sure we always have, considering that unrequited love has long been a common theme for literature, songs, and poetry.

Even if it had become a targeted issue by the medical/psych establishment, I think there would still be a lot of patients who ultimately couldn’t be treated because, like certain personality disorders, they’d resist the idea that the core problem with their relationships is them and the solution is working on themselves.

IMO, incels have only become something that normal people have noticed recently because the internet allowed them to find each other, and it also allowed us outsiders to watch them. Before that, I think they just went ignored for the most part purely because they are so terrible with interpersonal relationships.
 
"Incels" have been around since the dawn of mankind even though they haven't always gone by that name. As others have like @Sperghetti have said I think they have only really come to the forefront since the power of the Internet has allowed them to establish communities of like-minded individuals. There is an article I read called The New Superfluous Men on the subject. Some may find it interesting to look at, here is an excerpt from it:
It thus seems all the more curious that today’s incels would suddenly elicit such shock and cultural soul-searching, and have their predicament treated as a bizarre and recent aberration in all corners of the media. In 2018, alarms began sounding about a “sex recession,” with men reporting having had no sex in the past year at nearly double the rate of their female peers. For incels, this was a vindication of their theory that female “hypergamy,” unleashed by feminism and the sexual revolution, had created a situation where women unconstrained by social mores flock to a minority of wealthy or attractive men while leaving the rest in the dust. Others were quick to blame dating apps for enabling women to be selective like never before. But both of these narratives contain some rather inconvenient gaps. For one thing, no matter how many successful Tinder matches “Chad” gets, it’s hard to imagine him competing with the likes of Moulay Ismail ibn Sharif, who fathered over a thousand children with over five hundred different women without the help of either dating apps or feminism. And for all that incels stew over lurid accounts of youthful promiscuity, the most common guarantor of sex for men throughout history has not been some more fairly regulated dating culture but the far less exciting reality of marriage.

The picture becomes clearer if we recognize that both the incels and the journalists who puzzle over them are defining their expectations by the standards of a very particular period—the second half of the twentieth century. When incels talk about the “traditional norms” supposedly eroded by feminism, they are actually referring to a brief historical window in which a number of political and economic currents converged to create an incredible wave of stability and shared prosperity in much of the developed world, giving millions of relatively unskilled and unremarkable men the means to sustain a nuclear household on a single income and reap the rewards of patriarchy. That this was in fact an unprecedented social arrangement, or that people in preceding decades had actually attended church less often, married later, and done so in lower numbers was quickly forgotten as the world of Leave It to Beaver established itself as the perpetual “good old days” in our collective imaginary. This was also, incidentally, the same period in which “dating” came to be seen as a quintessential stage of youth. And so powerful is the gravitational pull of this golden age that it still anchors the political imaginations of both Left and Right. As if to illustrate Brink Lindsey’s quip that liberals want to work in the 1950s while conservatives want to go home there, Donald Trump promises to “make America great again” at the same time that Bernie Sanders waxes nostalgic about marginal tax rates under Eisenhower.

But as an exasperated Marty retorts to his father-in-law in the first season of True Detective, “if things were so great, they never would’ve changed.” The postwar paradise, to the extent that it even existed, proved to be a blip on the historical radar, lasting no longer than a single generation—the same generation that still refuses to release its stranglehold on the future. Its broadly shared prosperity was driven by the rebuilding of a world ravaged by precisely the kind of cataclysmic destruction of life and labor that has generally been the primary means of reducing social conflict and inequality. Its generous concessions to workers had been made under a looming threat of global communism that no longer exists. And now, as globalization and neoliberalism sweep away the last vestiges of economic security, marriage—which has always been men’s most reliable pathway out of celibacy—is increasingly becoming an upper-class luxury. Houellebecq had it wrong; neoliberal economic deregulation isn’t analogous to sexual stratification—it’s the direct cause.

On its own, then, this rise in male sexlessness is nothing new. But it’s happening at precisely the same time that men everywhere are experiencing a “purpose void.” In America, men accounted for nearly 80 percent of jobs lost in the wake of the last recession, and even in stereotypically male fields such as tech, automation is shifting emphasis away from abstract number-crunching ability to the kinds of “soft skills” for which women are far better socialized. Men now also consistently make up less than half of university students, and while this has had the ironic effect of creating extremely favorable dating conditions for male graduates, it has only worsened the odds for those without a degree. The modern world may have been largely built on the backs of working-class men, but today it has ever less need of them. As Hannah Rosin writes in The End of Men, “The postindustrial economy is indifferent to men’s size and strength. The attributes that are most valuable today—social intelligence, open communication, the ability to sit still and focus—are, at a minimum, not predominantly male. In fact, the opposite may be true.” With the factories and coal mines that chewed up past generations of working-class men giving way to call centers and cash registers, their female peers are, fairly or not, perceived as less threatening, more pleasant to customers, and more likely to show up sober and on time.

Moreover, in contrast to previous eras, today’s low-status men are not so easily disposed of. Although news headlines show a world torn apart by violent conflict, the truth is that war itself now has a much smaller impact on the social fabric. Two decades of war in the Middle East have claimed the lives of nearly six thousand American troops. But the Seven Years’ War alone saw nearly a million combatant casualties at a time when the world population was one-tenth its present size. Globally, armed conflict today accounts for only about 3 percent of annual deaths, and as traditional battlefields have given way to internal strife and irregular warfare, that body count has become largely civilian and thus less heavily male-skewed. Recently, an academic journal article titled “Drone Disorientations” received a healthy heaping of ridicule for its claim that drones are “genderqueer bodies” that “queer the experience of killing in war.” But buried beneath the self-parodying post-structuralist jargon is the more simple and obvious truth that technology has fundamentally transformed both the nature of war and the soldier’s role in it. The automation and professionalization of war have reduced its effectiveness as a meat grinder for processing vast quantities of surplus masculinity. So while feminism is not to blame for the exclusion of large numbers of men from family life, incels can blame modernity for the fact that, unlike their ancient counterparts, they remain alive to stew in their discontent.
 
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From what I've read of the loveshy syndrome it isn't the same as the incels. The distinctive thing about incels is their system of belief where they basically view women as all being promiscuous sociopaths driven entirely by appearance, they believe society owes them women and women are the center of their world, and they usually prioritize specific male attractiveness standards, focused on height and facial structure, which they fixate on obsessively. The first two of those are fundamental to the incel identity; someone who doesn't believe that shit isn't an incel. This "incel" word was a label they put on themselves. The last one isn't necessary, but I've noticed it's a pattern with them. Half of them seem to suffer from extreme body dysmorphia, and their beliefs about women's behavior is delusional.

The loveshy guys tend to fit a specific pattern of being extremely passive guys who only hang out with women, are extreme romantics/sit around listening to love songs and watching romance movies, no friends or at least no male friends, "melancholic," spiritual, unexpressive and serious, dominated by possessive mothers with few sisters, and hateful of men.

The two are not only not the same thing, but they're in some significant ways very opposite. The incels hate women, the loveshies hate men. The loveshies seem more reclusive, the incels more resentful.

Men who are scared to interact with women are universal and probably were much more common back when gender segregation was strictly enforced (see: Middle East and India). Incels, on the other hand, are a uniquely modern thing that exists from specific isolated people linking up and indoctrinating each other on the Internet.
 
That article its one of those "things always sucked LOL go back to work" neolibs like to throw around to justify the unrelenting socioeconomic decay.
“if things were so great, they never would’ve changed.”
Dumb, good things never last, the circumstances that led to the 1950's economic boom had nothing to do with culture and everything to do with postwar Europe being in the dumps and we being the only remaining major industrial power.

When you're the only business in town you get to set the prices and make bank, simple as that. 20 years later Japan went into high gear with their industry and they were destroying us, what are the odds?
The loveshy guys tend to fit a specific pattern of being extremely passive guys who only hang out with women, are extreme romantics/sit around listening to love songs and watching romance movies, no friends or at least no male friends, "melancholic," spiritual, unexpressive and serious, dominated by possessive mothers with few sisters, and hateful of men.
Seems to me most incels are just these loveshy's after stewing in years of rejection, that study I mentioned said this:
Gilmartin's love-shy men were poorly-adjusted and high in rates of mental illness. He found that the love-shy men had considerably more violent fantasies, were much more likely to believe that nobody cared about them, and were much more likely to have difficulties concentrating. He also found a tendency in some of the love-shy men to stare compulsively at women with whom they were infatuated or even stalk them, but without being able to talk to them, which sometimes got them in trouble with school authorities because of the perceived threat. Most of the love-shy men reported experiencing frequent feelings of depression.
That sounds incel-ish to me, and the current online echochamber does not help but TBH that applies to other loony groups that are far more socially accepted like troons.
 
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That article its one of those "things always sucked LOL go back to work" neolibs like to throw around to justify the unrelenting socioeconomic decay.

Dumb, good things never last, the circumstances that led to the 1950's economic boom had nothing to do with culture and everything to do with postwar Europe being in the dumps and we being the only remaining major industrial power.

When you're the only business in town you get to set the prices and make bank, simple as that. 20 years later Japan went into high gear with their industry and they were destroying us, what are the odds?

Seems to me most incels are just these loveshy's after stewing in years of rejection, that study I mentioned said this:

That sounds incel-ish to me, and the current online echochamber does not help but TBH that applies to other loony groups that are far more socially accepted like troons.
I agree to the extent that the loveshy and incels both tend to be creeps, I think what's going on inside their heads is different. Similarly both types are both generally shut-ins, NEETs. From what I read I just picture a different sort of person as the loveshy. They seem much more pathological and hung up in fear, the incels more of a "learned" problem, might say?
 
Some people, especially men, are genetic dead ends. This has been the case since the dawn of complex life and will be until we enforce strict eugenics or become something non-biological.

I really can't blame the incels for going insane over realising this fact. On the other hand, if they really understand that the situation is completely hopeless, why not turn their back on society completely instead of spending every minute lamenting it? Seems like they did so more in the past.
 
While "incels" have always existed, the increasing numbers of men who fail to score or form healthy relationships with the opposite sex...yes, it could have been avoided.

Neither boys or girls are given direction in life, both are taught that guys and girls are interchangeable.

Neither are taught how to properly treat each other.

Both are engaged in a retarded, unnecessary battle of the sexes.

and both are taught unhealthy, untrue ideas about romance and sexuality from a very young age by popular media, and more recently by LGBTQ ideologues.
 
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