Skeleton Warrior
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Western Animation - Discuss American, Canadian, and European cartoons here (or just bitch about wokeshit, I guess)
- Thread starter Morbid Boredom
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Edgeymcedgename
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you'd better check out of that before the 14 minute mark or so
that fucking short is creepy af, like the monster factory of Klasky Csupo tries to make an army of Cindy Lou Who
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Wow, talk about a false sense of security. The special starts off all mellow and chill and then that? Didn't get that far before you pointed that out.
Sleazy Car Salesman
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True & Honest Fan
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So I know this is slightly off topic but this seems like a good place to ask. I was recently rewatching a couple of the old animated Batman movies (Batman and Mr. Freeze & Batman: Return of The Joker, specifically. Good movies, recommended.) and I was suggested by youtube a newer film called Batman and Harley Quinn from 2017, it was really bad. But my question is this: When did this whole thing where Harley isn't Joker's girl and now she hates him and her and Poison Ivy are best friends and also a lesbian power fantasy actually start? And how did this seemingly become the new canon for their characters? I don't remember anything even close to it when I was a kid and I haven't followed capeshit actively in years.
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the whole harley quinn poison ivy thing started either in the btas episode harley and ivy or the webshow gotham girls which then became more lesbian like in the comics then suicide squad and the live action harley quinn movie happened which brought out the harley who hates joker, and then the harley quinn show came out and brought over harley's lesbianism with poison ivy over to that show.
Sleazy Car Salesman
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True & Honest Fan
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I don't remember that episode, I'll look it up.
Okay, so it is a super modern thing then and not something that's been around for thirty years and I just blocked it out. Thanks.
Edgeymcedgename
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One ep from the animated series where they robbed banks together, then Harley became lady Deadpool, then comics went woke and that's pretty much it.
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Like you can't even call it fan service anymore cause they made harley and ivy go from throwback to the femme fatales of golden age batman tas drew influence from, to a lady Deadpool and a mouthpiece for climate change.
Gotta love how a family show from the 90s gave them better chemistry when it was still limited by how far it could say they're a couple. Than modern T plus rated comics that can show amd say whatever they want, so long as no actual nudity is depicted.
(Side note about tas, Jokers like about them being "busy beavers" while making crossing gestures with his fingers had to be changed to busy bees, and yet its still a funny as hell joke.)
Basic Blond Boy
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Harley died off mostly for years after BTAS with comics not knowing how to use her and animation being hit-or-miss with her inclusion.
The Arkham series reinvigorated her popularity as the slutty version became a huge draw for horny teens and wannabe slutty cosplay chicks alike. From there, DC kept expanding her usage, giving her comic lines and a spot on the Suicide Squad come New 52. The relaunch would heavily push her into breaking away from Joker (made more violent than ever) and expand the whole Harley/Ivy dynamic as the best of friends for a shitty comedy series.
I would say the lesbian shit was more middle 2010s around the Suicide Squad Movie and woke culture becoming a thing. Even then, it was mostly DC confirming it, but never doing much with it in comics. Prior, the early 2010s was mostly just her whoring around with any guy she sees. A big push though came from AU comics - Bombshells and Injustice.
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- Dec 28, 2014
Superman is the one capeshit hero who shouldn't be dark and edgy. Batman is one who should. Superman's primary vulnerability is how much he cares about human life. That's worse than Kryptonite to him, but it's what makes him an actual hero.
Also to revisit the "two sides of the same coin" bullshit, that came from the Joker. That's how he thinks. He's wrong, though, and one of the best moments in the Christopher Nolan Batman movies is the one with the two boats, one full of criminals and the other full of outstanding citizens, and he gave both of them detonators to blow up the other boat. Sort of a mutant capeshit version of shit like the trolley problem that never happens in reality.
Both of them refused. A criminal actually chucked the detonator overboard.
Batman's view turned out right. The Joker is fucked in the head.
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Sleazy Car Salesman
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True & Honest Fan
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The issue with Batman specifically is that a lot of the modern takes on him forget that he is, at his core, also a very good person. Batman does what he does because he realizes that there are limits to the powers of the police and he wishes for no one else to suffer as he has. Batman's most ardent wish is to create a world that no longer needs Batman. Bruce Wayne is a philanthropist and environmentalist who uses his wealth to improve Gotham, he actively works with Arkham and Gotham State Penitentiary to hire ex-cons and help to rehabilitate them, he founded and has an active role in more than one orphanage, he actively roots out and punishes employees and executives at his company who engage in unethical business practices. Both Bruce Wayne and Batman are truly good people, sure they have their personality hang-ups and their weaknesses but who doesn't? Batman isn't some brooding anti-hero hellbent on revenge and Bruce Wayne shouldn't just be a womanizing flirt straddled with guilt.
That's why I made the comment earlier that most writers and fans of Batman seem to want to make him this weird inbetween of Peter Parker and Frank Castle.
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A major thing about Batman is he has moral qualms he almost always insists on, but the stories go in directions where he has to choose between doing a bad thing, but the only other option is that something even worse happens if he refuses to compromise his moral values.
He has, often in the early comics, and in later versions, had moral qualms like not using guns, not actually killing people, but even then, he would occasionally shoot someone. He would occasionally kill someone. This was against his moral code, but he sometimes had to compromise.
If you're Superman, you rarely have to compromise, because you can just use superpowers.
Batman didn't have those. He was just smart and resourceful. He was a human.
Newcomer 42
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Meanwhile, Absolute Batman is a tryhard edgelord who randomly mutilates rich people stereotypes and sitll pretends he's non-lethal... Until the latest issue, it seems, where he kills for real random pro-white skinheads (who are a stand-in for TRUMPF!, somehow) with a fucking flamethrower, and a passing priest calls him out, derp.
Really? It has gotten bad enough that he wounded Jason rather than let Joker bite a bullet.
But he's insane because he dresses up as a bat, yadda yadda. Someone should point out then Green Arrow, who only has a bow, and also has a kid sidekick, and no-one calls him out.
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what issue is that because i dont recall it happening
edit: i think i found it. it's the annual issue. i think you could just ignore that one if you wanted for i stick to the mainline absolute
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The killing joke also did this but less trolley problem more "whimsically gaslight gordon into thinking i rape-snuffed his daughter when I just shot her and took pics of her before leaving to break his moral code and make him willing to kill me or whatever" sort of thing. Nowdays whenever the killing joke gets brought up it's to "uhm actually" away any inconsistencies with joker's character or shit they tack on with retcons because he had a cope line after a tragic flashback where he basically says shit that means "I don't like remembering my past!". It's also used sometimes to "uhm acksually" away batman's no kill rule because "ooh did he kill the joeker was that puddle just rain hmmm? or maybe... BLOOD? HMMM DID DA JOEKER PROVE IT RIGHT?" Nobody pays attention to the whole comic anymore, it's just lines and out of context panels from it getting cherrypicked for excusing actual dogshit characterization.
Anyways yeah tangents aside the joker's fucked up worldview being wrong is a big point in Batman stuff.
I am never going to forget the time a chatbot based on the character he yoinked his name from started ranting angrily about digibro because it was and still is the funniest shit that has ever occured involving digibro to me. The rest is like standard meth head degen descent stuff which while indeed funny isn't the exact same type of funny as someone who ain't even real suddenly going "CONRAD YOU BASED YOUR ENTIRE TRANNY NAME AND IDENTITY ON ME AND YOU STILL CAN'T PRONOUNCE MY NAME RIGHT"
Newcomer 42
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Wasn't the Killing Joke a way to dispose of Batgirl that went waaay too far? I also prefer the luzly joker of Batman 66, or at least the ambigous Joker of the animated cartoon than the "kill everyone for the lulz" modern Joker. It gets harder and harder to justify the "therapy" excuse when leaving the Joker alive is something that even Superman would have trouble considering. That, or throw him into the Phantom Zone and forget about him entirely.
"But see, if Batman kills someone, then he becomes as bad as the Joker! Yes, one of them is a mass-murderer and the other tries to help the world, but they're totes both sides of the same coin!!!"
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Syndrome specifically mentioned selling his tech to foreign countries in a military context first, with the "everyone will be super" part only coming after he has moved on and retired from the fame and glory that being a superhero brought him, per his own admission.
He's not making everyone super out of some noble idealistic cause of empowering the average man, he's only making everyone "super" to destroy the idea of being super after he himself had gotten bored with it. He doesn't give a shit about other people being super, he just wants "being super" to not mean anything anymore once he's done with it.
"See? Now you respect me, because I'm a threat. That's the way it works. Turns out there are lots of people, whole countries, that want respect, and will pay through the nose to get it. How do you think I got rich? I invented weapons, and now I have a weapon that only I can defeat, and when I unleash it..."
"I'll be a bigger hero than you EVER were. [...] Oh, I'm real. Real enough to defeat you! And I did it without your precious gifts, your oh-so-special powers. I'll give them heroics. I'll give them the most spectacular heroics anyone's ever seen! And when I'm old and I've had my fun, I'll sell my inventions so that everyone can be superheroes. Everyone can be super! And when everyone's super... no one will be."
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Wait what? Can you link to this?
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- Jun 4, 2015
I posted it in the digibro thread a few times, it wasn't a big event or anything just something really funny that happened once or twice. I even made a shitpost audio out of one of the instances of it a year ago.
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This was when he was claiming a sonichu medallion killed his cousin.
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