Western Animation - Discuss American, Canadian, and European cartoons here (or just bitch about wokeshit, I guess)

Bojack Horsekin said:
Well, can't argue with greatness. Wazzup, bitches??

Ok, in all seriousness, this list is dumb. Big Mouth and Teen Titans Go at all, really? Simpsons at #2? Maybe 25 years ago, but not now.

I only saw FLCL once and thought it was stupid, am I uncultured or something?

Also I like Sailor Moon, it's cute, but it's way too repetitive, cheaply-animated, and toy-commercial to be considered a best cartoon ever. Maybe I needed to be in grade school when I first watched it.
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One could argue that Sailor Moon at least has a place in anime for codifying they magical warrior girl genre and for being one of the leading faces of the anime boom but this whole list is just a clickbait tier “cartoons shows I watched and liked”.
Big Mouth was included and that’s literally just baby’s first adult cartoon mixed with social justice elements go Christ’s sakes.
Jewelsmakerguy said:
Fuck #9, why the fuck is TTG on that list? For that matter, they show a picture of the Powerpuff Girls reboot despite the entry being about the original series. Why the fuck would they do that?
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Bread Fetishist said:
Because it was made by clowns who probably don’t even care that much about animation.
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If I had to guess, they put it there to piss off people who still whine about the original? At least that’s what liking TTG has mostly devolved into.
Steamboat_Bill said:
How the hell do people not know that the creators don't own their own shows? That's why they did the PPG reboot.

When you sell a show to a company, the company owns it outright and they can do what they want with it. You, the creator, often do not enter into it.
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Even pilots are owned by the networks, which is why so many short cartoons never get passed the pilot stage if they flop, barring rare exceptions. Danny Antonucci was smart enough to keep the rights to EEnE as his one condition to CN. Vivienne Medrano straight up just funded and shopped her pilots on her own.

And yet you still see so many people idealistic and ignorant about the industry; I’ve seen people want to become animators because “they’re rolling in money”. I’ve heard people legitimately claim that CN is an “artist network” that caters to the artists. It’s no wonder the big three keep getting new hires with this attitude.

I wonder if AT and SU getting rebooted would get them to face reality.
 
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He doesn't have the rights, but his company produced the show for CN so he has a say in what can be done with it.

If you own a company, you will have more say in what can be done with your show. If they reboot it, you will have to be involved, for example.

But most creators don't have that luxury.
 
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Steamboat_Bill said:
He doesn't have the rights, but his company produced the show for CN so he has a say in what can be done with it.

If you own a company, you will have more say in what can be done with your show. If they reboot it, you will have to be involved, for example.

But most creators don't have that luxury.
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Maybe that’s why Hazbin Hotel is so hated. People view it as a mockery to other animators who actually had to work hard for their craft.
 
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Private Pyle said:
Maybe that’s why Hazbin Hotel is so hated. People view it as a mockery to other animators who actually had to work hard for their craft.
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Of course the Internet makes a hell of a lot more possible, and I wouldn't be surprised to see things change on this front in the future.
 
Hating Hazbin Hotel for having autonomy is stupid in this age, where more and more indie animation is possible. You don't have to be picked up by a network anymore and have rights to your creation stripped from you, if you really don't want that.

edit: grammar
 
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Ren and Stimpy Reboot is officially cancelled FOR Real
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Further Confirmation:
Screenshot (108).png
 
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The Almighty Loaf said:
Ren and Stimpy Reboot is officially cancelled FOR Real
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Further Confirmation:
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Rugrats was also a product of the 90s but that’s not stopping Nick from digging it up for a reboot.
Loud House’s creator got outed as a sex pest but that didn’t stop people from supporting and keeping it on air.
I don’t care for the original show or John K but the amount of pettiness and hypocrisy on display over this whole situation is kind of repulsive. All over some guy who hasn’t been involved with the series in over a decade and wasn’t even going to come back.

And I genuinely do feel bad for the people who were involved; imagine people who were getting into the industry only to be told “Fuck you, wrong side of history.” There might be a small sliver of hope that it might not be cancelled give that neither of these are official sources but eh, not looking so good.
 
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Private Pyle said:
Rugrats was also a product of the 90s but that’s not stopping Nick from digging it up for a reboot.
Loud House’s creator got outed as a sex pest but that didn’t stop people from supporting and keeping it on air.
I don’t care for the original show or John K but the amount of pettiness and hypocrisy on display over this whole situation is kind of repulsive. All over some guy who hasn’t been involved with the series in over a decade and wasn’t even going to come back.

And I genuinely do feel bad for the people who were involved; imagine people who were getting into the industry only to be told “Fuck you, wrong side of history.” There might be a small sliver of hope that it might not be cancelled give that neither of these are official sources but eh, not looking so good.
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No, it's been shelved - Bob Camp heard that from one of the people who was working on the reboot. That doesn't mean canceled, but for now, I wouldn't get my hopes up.

I'm not going to shed tears over this, though. The fact they didn't call Bob in - the one person other than John who's been trying to make a reboot happen - shows what kind of show it was going to be. It showed that the people who greenlit it had no idea what the show meant or what made it so good.

I am, of course, hoping that they let Bob Camp do a movie like the Hey Arnold and Rocko films. It'd be great, it'd be funny, and the animation community would be behind it all the way.
 
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Steamboat_Bill said:
No, it's been shelved - Bob Camp heard that from one of the people who was working on the reboot. That doesn't mean canceled, but for now, I wouldn't get my hopes up.

I'm not going to shed tears over this, though. The fact they didn't call Bob in - the one person other than John who's been trying to make a reboot happen - shows what kind of show it was going to be. It showed that the people who greenlit it had no idea what the show meant or what made it so good.

I am, of course, hoping that they let Bob Camp do a movie like the Hey Arnold and Rocko films. It'd be great, it'd be funny, and the animation community would be behind it all the way.
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Jerking off Bob Camp and fanboyism aside, “shelved” is the operative word here. It doesn’t discredit my theory that they’re pulling another ThunderCats Roar or High Guardian Spice and just laying low.

Some things to note is that R&S is still showing up in uploaded clips and merchandise, even getting on the front cover of the new Nick racing game. Furthermore neither Billy West nor the head artist of the reboot have said anything and Viacom would have made some sort of announcement that it’s canned. That’s a bit more reliable than two people on twitter and “this guy heard it from someone else”.

I just find it baffling that in an era where a shit load of reboots clog up the air waves, this one reboot is suddenly not allowed to exist. Either all of it is okay or none of it is. For what it’s worth, the early art for the reboot is not horrible.
 
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Private Pyle said:
Jerking off Bob Camp and fanboyism aside, “shelved” is the operative word here. It doesn’t discredit my theory that they’re pulling another ThunderCats Roar or High Guardian Spice and just laying low.

Some things to note is that R&S is still showing up in uploaded clips and merchandise, even getting on the front cover of the new Nick racing game. Furthermore neither Billy West nor the head artist of the reboot have said anything and Viacom would have made some sort of announcement that it’s canned. That’s a bit more reliable than two people on twitter and “this guy heard it from someone else”.

I just find it baffling that in an era where a shit load of reboots clog up the air waves, this one reboot is suddenly not allowed to exist. Either all of it is okay or none of it is. For what it’s worth, the early art for the reboot is not horrible.
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But no one ever said those two shows were shelved; they've been on Nick's 90s merchandise for years and I don't see that stopping; Billy West never came out and said he was involved; and we don't even know who the head artist is. (Now that I think about it, whoever it was may have been the guy who told Bob Camp. Don't know his name though.)

And what early art for the reboot? The designs that are on all the R&S merchandise?

Many shows have been announced and gotten shelved because things changed at the network. That happens a lot in animation, and half the time nobody ever gets to hear that they've been shelved.
 
Steamboat_Bill said:
But no one ever said those two shows were shelved; they've been on Nick's 90s merchandise for years and I don't see that stopping; Billy West never came out and said he was involved; and we don't even know who the head artist is. (Now that I think about it, whoever it was may have been the guy who told Bob Camp. Don't know his name though.)

And what early art for the reboot? The designs that are on all the R&S merchandise?

Many shows have been announced and gotten shelved because things changed at the network. That happens a lot in animation, and half the time nobody ever gets to hear that they've been shelved.
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Well look at the development of both those shows; both announced a couple of years ago and went silent after backlash, before reappearing once it died down. I can see something like that happening here.

After doing some digging, I was able to get some facts in order; so far sources have simply stated that West is expected to return but nothing concrete yet. I did find an artist working on the reboot, even if it may not be the head artist:
This makes wonder how far along the show is I production to point it’s staffed.

In the end, I’m going to wait until Viacom makes an official statement. All we have at the moment is “he said, she said” with no one giving a source. Seriously, Robyn response to anyone asking for a source is “your mom”. Not exactly trustworthy.
 
Private Pyle said:
Well look at the development of both those shows; both announced a couple of years ago and went silent after backlash, before reappearing once it died down. I can see something like that happening here.

After doing some digging, I was able to get some facts in order; so far sources have simply stated that West is expected to return but nothing concrete yet. I did find an artist working on the reboot, even if it may not be the head artist:
This makes wonder how far along the show is I production to point it’s staffed.

In the end, I’m going to wait until Viacom makes an official statement. All we have at the moment is “he said, she said” with no one giving a source. Seriously, Robyn response to anyone asking for a source is “your mom”. Not exactly trustworthy.
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But like I said, no one ever said they were shelved. Nobody involved nor anyone who had a contact in the production came out and said they'd been shelved.

And I doubt Viacom is going to just up and say that they've shelved the reboot. Companies prefer to just hope you forget - that's the way it's always been.
 
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Steamboat_Bill said:
But like I said, no one ever said they were shelved. Nobody involved nor anyone who had a contact in the production came out and said they'd been shelved.

And I doubt Viacom is going to just up and say that they've shelved the reboot. Companies prefer to just hope you forget - that's the way it's always been.
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To get circular about this, the only two people claiming it to be shelved are kind of untrustworthy. I mean Camp is not involved in the reboot whatsoever, yet he somehow knows it’s been shelved? And again, neither will list a source? Sounds pretty suspicious.

I’m just saying I want a bit more substantiative evidence than two people not involved with the reboot, one with a clear vendetta. Though deep down I hope this leads to a collapse in Western animation.
 
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