Off-Topic What rights do trans people not have? - Discussion thread

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  • Full social and legal recognition of trans women as women, and trans men as men, and the ability to update legal identity documents without onerous unnecessary requirements.
  • Full legal and social recognition of nonbinary genders
  • Widespread social education combating common biases and misconceptions about trans people
  • Federal prohibition of anti-trans discrimination in employment, education, housing, public accommodations, medical care, etc.
  • Coverage for medically necessary transition-related medical treatment through public health insurance
  • An end to the "trans panic" legal defense for assault and murder of trans victims.
How many of those are fulfilled depends on where in the world you live.
 
What rights do they need? What are they being persecuted for? In particular, MTF trannies are already biologically male, and I'll admit men are not exactly being formally oppressed anywhere for being male whatever else they could be hit on, eh?

Since they already have full legal rights of their biological sex, what they actually want is privilege - but they refuse to admit that.
 
1. Full social and legal recognition of trans women as women, and trans men as men, and the ability to update legal identity documents without onerous unnecessary requirements.
2. Full legal and social recognition of nonbinary genders
3. Widespread social education combating common biases and misconceptions about trans people
4. Federal prohibition of anti-trans discrimination in employment, education, housing, public accommodations, medical care, etc.
5. Coverage for medically necessary transition-related medical treatment through public health insurance
6. An end to the "trans panic" legal defense for assault and murder of trans victims.
How many of those are fulfilled depends on where in the world you live.
So...
1. The right to lie, and claim you're something which you're objectively not (and have it unquestioningly accepted as truth)
2. The right to lie, and claim you're something which doesn't even exist (and have it unquestioningly accepted as truth)
3. Taxpayer-funded propaganda, intended to gaslight people that the above two demonstrable lies need to be accepted, despite their self-evident falsehood.
4. The right to prevent employers from firing you, for provable, habitual dishonesty
5. "Everyone except me needs to pay for my 100% medically-unnecessary drugs/cosmetic surgery, not to treat any evidence-based illness/injury/physiological problem, but aimed at making me (kinda... sorta... if you squint... at 10, 50, 100 paces...) superficially resemble the opposite sex..."
6. The right to rape/The right to be exempt from the "rape by stealth" standard, which many jurisdictions prosecute.

I wonder what MLK would say if he saw what the "civil rights struggle" would look like, 50 years in his future?

but you forgot one- Probably the most aggressively-pursued, right now; (7) the right to chemically-stunt the normal, natural development of healthy preteens as young as humanly possible, and to commit them to a lifetime of wrong-sex hormones, before they can give meaningful, valid consent/"The right of trans-kids to vital Gender Affirming Care, to prevent the incalculable emotional harm of The Wrong Puberty"
 
It's documented on LGBTQ nation


In Oklahoma, for example, a new bill called the “Millstone Act of 2023” has been proposed to ban all forms of gender-affirming care for anyone under 26 years old. The bill targets healthcare providers and says anyone who violates the rule could face felony charges and have their medical license revoked.


In a statement to The Oklahoman, Bullard said gender-affirming surgery is “a permanent solution to a temporary problem” and called it a violation of doctors’ Hippocratic Oath to do no harm.

As if they're entitled to decide what medical treatments are good or not.

Additionally, a North Dakota Republican has introduced a bill that would fine people $1500 for using the correct pronouns for trans people.

And previously...


In Alabama, HB 322 will restrict transgender students from using bathrooms and locker rooms that align with their gender identity and ban instruction of LGBTQ topics in schools, similar to Florida’s law.

Bans on transgender women and girls competing in sports take effect in both Indiana and South Dakota. South Dakota’s HB 1012 will also place restrictions on LGBTQ topics in higher education.

All of this is working on the mistaken paragdigm that gender is real. They can participate in sports within their sex. And use the proper bathrooms.
 
i do not believe trans people have any fewer rights than anyone else. least in the united states. any rights they feel they lack are rights they took away from themselves because they need to always be the most oppressed group or else they become no better than anyone else and for some reason the idea of being just like everyone else upsets them even though they claim they just want to be accepted. kind of a mixed message i would say.
 
Most of the people screaming "trans rights are human rights" hasn't even thought of it on the logical basis that this thread has. I don't even know if they have the mental capacity to do so.

Ask a troon what they mean by "trans rights are human rights" and just before you are banned from the platform they will rage at you saying "UM HOW ABOUT THE RIGHT TO PURSUE HAPPINESS AND LIVE MY LIFE IN PEACE??? AND TO NOT HAVE TO ENGAGE WITH BIGOTS LIKE YOU???"

Which of course are rights which either everyone already has and they don't understand what it actually means, or no one ever had.

For 90% of people chanting the phrase, it's unexamined, manipulative rhetoric.
 
I've always found it retarded that troons think they deserve the right to chop off their balls on the taxpayer's dime with the excuse that they'll kill themselves without their cross-sex surgeries and hormones. What about the people with life-threatening diseases?
"Trans rights" is about as meaningless of a phrase as "Cancer patients' rights." Hell, it's even more meaningless.
 
I kinda wonder if a similar discussion about homosexuals before the early 2010s could be had.
I was an adult and politically aware in the 2000's ("aughts") and I can tell you that gay rights were definitely not the same struggle nor was the struggle even similar at face value. In fact, the only relation the gay rights movement had with "trans rights" is that the conservatives correctly predicted the slope becoming slippery.

Before the 2010's, the last big fight was for gay marriage: The right for 2 consenting adults to pledge monogamy to each other in exchange for state and legal benefits (such as reduced tax rates, hospital visitation, POA in a vegetative state, adoption, etc.). Some conservatives called it an abomination in the eyes of their god (conveniently ignoring that heathens could straight-marry), some of the slightly reasonable conservatives were okay with everything but adoption (or were at least okay with extending equal benefits to "domestic partnerships"), and the most tolerant of the conservatives were on board with everything that the LGB community wanted but held back as they correctly predicted that the nuclear family would dissolve as more fringe groups (pedos, horsefuckers, polygamists, transvestites (as troons were considered at the time)) would demand their "equal rights" next.

Gay rights pre-2010 were about the gays being left alone to pursue their own happiness. This is not the case for the wedding-cake-debate, but that was post-2010. Trans rights post-2010 has been a demand to compell speech and thought-police everyone as the whole issue revolves around societal gender roles and external treatment from strangers. This is done with an implicit threat of litigation, social ostricization, unemployment, suicide, or a combination of any of those actions. It is a gaslight of astronomical proportions.
 
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I kinda wonder if a similar discussion about homosexuals before the early 2010s could be had.
When I was young the main right they wanted was the right to have marriages that were recognised as being the same as heterosexual marriages. They got that, they won, they're equal now. Which is why all the LGBT organisations had to start pushing the T part of the acronym. I don't really blame ordinary gay people for this. They may have been suckered into thinking that genderspecials only wanted they same sort of equality they got. But troons are good at preying on the empathy of others, and a group that had only recently won their rights were in a position to feel empathetic.

I say this because I was extremely sympathetic to the concept of "trans rights" until quite recently. And it's only after seeing how little empathy they have for others (maybe not every trans person as a discrete individual, but certainly the trans community as a whole, trans people who seem to care about those outside of the community are the minority, and they end up getting treated like heretics anyway. Look at someone like Rose of Dawn's twitter replies for saying things like "maybe we should do something about all the trans sex pests") that I decided that I was done sticking my neck out for people who wouldn't piss on me if I was on fire.

A big fundamental difference between the gays in the 2000s and the troons now is that trans rights has no definable end goal the way gay rights did. No matter how much they get it's never enough, and it never makes them happy anyway. They keep winning, but their victories are like ash in their mouths. No group is as coddled and infantalized, yet they've still managed to convince themselves that they are the modern Jews in 1930s Germany. I just wish they'd understand that even most transphobes don't want them to die so much as just shut the fuck up and accept being held to the same standards of acceptable behavior as the rest of us.

I guess I'd sum it up by saying that gays wanted to be the same as everyone else, and troons want to be better than everyone else.
I was an adult and politically aware in the 2000's ("aughts") and I can tell you that gay rights were definitely not the same struggle nor was the struggle even similar at face value. In fact, the only relation the gay rights movement had with "trans rights" is that the conservatives correctly predicted the slope becoming slippery.
I was sceptical of the "slippery slope" argument at the time. And while in hindsight I was naive, from what I remember the two main examples of the slippery slope were polygamy and beastiality. No one really saw the troon wave coming. The problem was that all the gay rights orgs had a lot of money at stake and they wouldn't be able to hold onto that if they merely transitioned to fighting a rear guard action to protect the rights gays already have. Polygamist rights were a no go because there aren't that many people who want multiple partners but also believe in the bonds of holy matrimony. And our society isn't so degenerate (yet) as to openly tolerate beastiality. So trans rights was the logical next cause.

A thing I don't think anyone really could have predicted is how thin skinned and volatile the trans community would become. I swear they weren't like this back when they were still called transsexuals (why did the name change anyway?). Maybe because you actually had to pay some sort of social cost back then so they knew not to rock the boat. But these days it seems to have just become a socially acceptable way to be a narcissist. I don't want to powerlevel too much, but about 10 years ago I had a really bad experience with someone who I am convinced had narcissistic personality disorder (this was a bit before accusing anyone you don't like of being a narcissist became the big thing on reddit btw). In the months following this incident I devoted myself to learning as much about NPD as I could as a way of dealing with the trauma of what I'd been through.

And now that I've put two and two together it's amazing how of what I learned applies to the troons. The constant need for affirmation mirrors the need for narcissistic supply to keep a fragile ego from collapsing. And the rage they feel when someone breaks the illusion is identical to what narcissists do when someone injures them by reminding them that they are not the center of the universe. They are also amazing at manipulation, they know exactly how to suck up to those with more power than them, while stamping down on those beneath them. All while maintaining a facade of innocence. It's incredible that such a small group can cast such a wide shadow. But when you have a pathological need to control others you are going to put that much more effort into it than a normal person would.

Ultimately I think the only way the wave breaks is if they go too far. It wasn't J.K Rowling and the Terfs or Matt Walsh and the religious right that radicalised me. It was having to deal with trans people and their entitlement. But you just can't underestimate the liberal love of performative self flagellation. Liberals treat trans people like they are a perennial special needs child. The bigotry of low expectations is strong here, I can't think of any other group that has as much of a shield from criticism. I genuinely cannot empathize with how troons seem to enjoy this. I hate being infantalised, nothing makes me angrier. But they seem content to be treated like children forever. Emotionally unstable children who get a free pass to be sex pests.
 
  • Full social and legal recognition of trans women as women, and trans men as men, and the ability to update legal identity documents without onerous unnecessary requirements
Why do you need to be seen as trans AND a woman? Are trans women just women? What does trans mean then? What does "woman" mean?

Also half of the issues listed ONLY appeared when troons started increasing 2000% and being shoved in your face everywhere.
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