Where is the line between good and bad bullying?

[Rekieta’s Broken Penis]

As other commenters have noted, any discussion can only happen after we have defined our terms. Growing up, I understood bullying to be a sustained and malicious targeted harassment. That is to say, if I came to school one day wearing a hat for the NSW Blues (an objectively embarrassing team to support) and everybody called me a faggot for the day it wasn’t bullying but rather being picked on. On the other hand, there was a boy who wasn’t popular, and some boys and I once phoned him up and told him to come over to so-and-so’s house, then hid in my driveway (between the two houses) and threw rocks at him when he rode past. He was bullied (somewhat) by those boys because they did stuff like that with some regularity. Another girl I knew got teased frequently because she was annoying and stinky. She didn’t wipe her ass properly, or maybe shit her pants. She was picked on for those behaviours.

I think it’s obvious that a sustained pattern of targeted and malicious harassment is not a good thing. However, merely “picking on”, can have some positive impacts. Firstly, it serves to protect the homogeneity of a community. While some people might always be weirdos, others are on the fence. The explosion in rates of identification as bullshit LGBTI categories among Gen Z is a direct consequence of students no longer being laughed at and called faggots for it. I had a friend who came out as pansexual. He was relentlessly mocked for wanting to fuck kitchenware. Do you think a second person was going to come out and call themselves two spirit? Secondly, it does have corrective action on some people. I had another friend start brushing his teeth twice a day because he was mocked for having shit breath.

However, the challenge in tolerating children picking on each other is that what can start as picking on for perceived social faux pas can easily escalate to bullying. For example, the girl who stank never made any friends and had to transfer school. She didn’t stink anymore but her reputation did.

I think bullying can also be understood better through a Girardian analysis. Insofar as bullying consists of the selection of a scapegoat (usually due to the commission of some social faux pas), it must be rejected and guarded against. Insofar as picking on consists of children expressing their displeasure with some social faux pas inflicted upon them, as best they can with their limited social and emotional abilities, it should be guided into a more socially constructive form.

The guidance from adults should take the form of a) assisting the one child correct the faux pas b) assisting the other child to express their displeasure in a more constructive manner.

In summary, children picking on each other can have some protective function from a societal level but it needs to be managed carefully. I think many school environments would struggle with this from a resourcing perspective.

 

[ZealotCrustacean101]

I believe the people who try to justify bullying (stuffing people into lockers tier) have either never been bullied or are bullies themselves, giving underage retards the pass to "correct" a kid's behavior with bullying is autistic in its own regard.

In my opinion bullying only worked when kids could rely on their parents, it gave them the ability to step in and teach the kid as well as protecting them, bonding with your real life hero, but now families are so broken and cold, that I wouldn't bet on children trusting their parents anymore (There's a reason school shooters tend to kill their parents)

Now, I don't support the idea of policing shit talking, I believe its only natural people form their own groups and act spergy towards those who don't belong in their own, you SHOULD be called out for your own bullshit and being told how much of a retard you are, but turning bullying into the golden solution to raising competent, socially adept people is out of touch.

In conclusion, parents need to do their fucking job and raise their kids.

 

[The greater a'tuin]

Bullying does not uphold conformity or whatever cope, it makes the victim double down on their behavior out of spite, and deciding what "deserves" bullying is too ripe for misuse.

 

[pork and beans]

Bullying creates shame and shame curbs behaviors because it fuels social-withdrawal and avoidance. But it can’t create behaviors.

If somebody is bullied because they paint their own nails a really ugly color, then sure, that might make them stop (doesnt mean it’s the only way to get them to stop or whether it’s right or not to do so). But if somebody is bullied because they are bad at writing novels, that’s not gonna make them any better.

Someone getting picked on might give them a reality check that is helpful in the long run, but that doesn’t automatically make it right. A lot of the shame bullying creates is long lasting, and shame in situations one hasn’t anything to (no longer) be ashamed of is a very unhelpful emotion.

 

[Inco G. Nito]

Seems pretty straight forwards to me. Criminal harassment and assault are violent, antisocial, delinquent, melanin behaviors and have legal definitions that we can use to draw the line. Meanwhile making fun of and shaming weirdos engaging in deviant behavior is very important for social cohesion. Besides, if getting mocked and ridiculed and pranked and ostricized or even beat up over being a furry or some shit causes one to "double down" as some people ITT are forecasting, did they ever really have hope to begin with? All I know is that totally tolerating faggotry isn't going to help anyone fix themselves. Shame has been one of the most powerful motivators for me personally to improve my ways during some key developmental points in my life, both as a child and as a teenager entering into young adulthood. It's supposed to feel bad, that's what makes it work.

 

[Duke Nukem]

Troll answer: I'm thankful for my bully beating my ass on a weekly basis, if he didn't do that I'd be a sexually deviant autistic furry who jerks off to cartoon horses and stuff like that in my parents' basement!

Serious answer: It's not something I approve of personally but there is a serious gray area to the whole thing. There's a difference in telling the weird kid to shower once in a while, and beating him up and calling him homophobic things just because.

More serious answer: Anti-bullying programs and zero tolerance policies have only made everything worse.

 

[Whatevermancer]

If you didn't manage to give your victim some kind of mental disorder, your bullying clearly wasn't good enough!

 

[Lovely Kin]

More serious answer: Anti-bullying programs and zero tolerance policies have only made everything worse.

When I was in primary school, my school briefly tried something for the middle school and high school wings where they encouraged sitting with those who sit alone, which shortly became "No one sits alone." All it did was cause resentment and made everything a lot worse during that time period.

 

[What can I say?]

I think dehumanization plays a big part in it.

When you dehumanize someone or a group of people, and start treating and talking about them as inhuman, like they aren't sentient because you consider them lower than you, it subconsciously, or hell even consciously sometimes, enables you to start doing a lot of fucking awful things to them. It's why I've always been against it unless the people/person in question has done some genuinely repugnant stuff, I think it's a pathway to some of the worst things humanity can do and celebrate, and there's no good intentions paved onto that brick road. I think a certain level of ribbing is needed for some people to get on the right track, sometimes you need to slam a nail into a wooden plank for it to stick properly, and mockery is a fundamental part of comedy and language, but when you hit the wooden plank with a hammer too hard, all you've got is a really shitty cracked wooden plank.

It also depends on what you consider bullying. A lot of people would consider this site bullying, but I just don't think that's the case considering one of the main rules here is to not fuck with the people being discussed, not to say this site can't get close to crossing this line at times, but there's a fine line between mockery and laughing at someone, and actual bullying, and I'd say this site falls more into the former. Alot of people conflate or confuse comedy and jokes with harassment and bullying but that's an entirely different threads worth of conversation.

What do you guys think?

 

[Bob Faget]

Very intresting dicussion that is suprisingly nuanced. My personnal view is that bullying can be good if it is done right but its a fine line. I think it can be used as a tool to correct antisocial behavior or other generally undesirable qualities. For example if someone is a furry or tranny those qualities should get picked on in a hope that they fix themselves. It goes to far however when it becomes physical. And that shit absolutley should be condemned especially amongst kids. Nobody should be beat up just because they are a wierdo or have antisocial behavior. It also crosses a line when it starts to become harassment of someone for everything they do. Ie. If someone is tranny they should be picked on for being a tranny and you shouldnt just harass them just to harass them. I also think the stance of never bullying anyone ever is just as shit as constant bullying. If someone is a diaperfur degen and nobody says anything the behavior will just continue and get worse. Jist like if they get the shit beat out of them they will develop a victim complex and doyble down and get worse. So at the end of the day its really about balance. Too little and too much bullying will lead to the same outcome.

 

[Prokhor Zakharov]

The line is crossed when the target of the bullying starts to experience severe psychological distress (contemplation of suicide, clinical depression, develops an anxiety disorder, etc...)

At that point clearly the subject of the bullying is essentially being tortured and is not going to respond in anything but a negative way to bullying. At that point the kids bullying should just agree to ignore the kid since they clearly aren't getting the message.

Also, the intent of the bullying makes a huge difference. If it is being done to try and clue someone in that they are acting like a retard and should stop, that is trying to help the person in question. Bullying them because you hate yourself or your life, that is not helping anyone since it's maladaptive for the person doing the bullying and the person being bullied is just being used.

 

[Duke Nukem]

When I was in primary school, my school briefly tried something for the middle school and high school wings where they encouraged sitting with those who sit alone, which shortly became "No one sits alone." All it did was cause resentment and made everything a lot worse during that time period.

Of course they make you sit next to the autistic furry weeaboo who never showers, so no wonder it doesn't work.

My problem with things is that they define literally anything as bullying, but when it gets physical and the intended target fights back to defend himself against that, he's the one to get in trouble due to zero tolerance policies. Luckily I got away with a lot of that, but try that now and you'll end up on some "terrorist watch list" or whatever for standing up for yourself.

School is a shitty place anyway. That being said, I'm surprised at how intelligent and mature a lot of people in this thread have been, other than the usual "they deserve it because gay" shit posting.

 

[Lovely Kin]

My problem with things is that they define literally anything as bullying, but when it gets physical and the intended target fights back to defend himself against that, he's the one to get in trouble due to zero tolerance policies. Luckily I got away with a lot of that, but try that now and you'll end up on some "terrorist watch list" or whatever for standing up for yourself.

My school did zero tolerance as well, I got punished underneath that rule system. One guy kept trying to fuck with me (shoving, touching etc.), and I kept telling him to stop, but he wouldn't listen even when I warned him I was going to hit him with whatever was in my hands. OI course, he slapped me next so I used my textbook to strike him and got him really good on the face. Then he starts freaking out because he didn't think I was going to fight back, and went into a victim mode, claiming that I "jumped on him." I thought I was going to be expelled since I did hurt him until they checked the security cameras and saw the proof he was. Still got a whole lecture about how I "disgraced the school." and asked me if I would rather go to a public school. My suspension was longer than his, and they changed my schedule so I wouldn't be in the same class as him because he was "afraid of me". True or not, he did look pretty shaken, and he left the school the next year.

I forgot to give my view on bullying, when I did bully someone that wasn't picking on them, it was more hinting that they needed to do something like they needed to shower, annoying, or their breath really smelled bad. To me, the line is crossed when they genuinely cannot help it, or if it results in physical bullying.

 

[Second Alter Ego]

Seeing as humans are animals it is logical to view our behavior in the same way we view that of other animals.
In the case of most animals with spinal cords who live in groups, "bullying" behavior can be viewed neutrally. Whether it's fish, or mice, or cats, or birds (I have kept all of those so this is coming from experience), a "pecking order" is established between members of a species which at the end of the day is necessary for social health. It may not be pretty, and it may result in injury or exclusion, but the main impetus for the behavior (whether the group itself or a stronger individual is doing the singling out) is to weed out group members who pose a threat to the whole. Weak, small, sick, or abnormally socially behaving critters are like capes on a superhero - they are the first thing that is going to get grabbed in an emergency situation, with the potential to take down the entire unit with them. So those vulnerabilities are focused on, discouraged, heckled, possibly killed, for the sole purpose of returning homogeneity to the group and increasing its chance of survival when faced with predators.
If the animal in question is simply behaving inappropriately, there is a potential for them to learn from the bullying and change their behavior accordingly, lessening both the risk to the group and the focus the group has on the weirdo. This is usually seen in younger animals who simply have not mastered the group dynamics yet, and they get scolded or picked on by their elders until they get it.
But sadly nature does have mistakes and those animals with unchangeable differences (runts, cripples, abnormal coloration, etc) cannot make amends with the hostile group and may be picked on violently until they are killed. Or in the case of humans, commit suicide. That is simply a fact of life and it cannot really be changed because, as I said before, we are animals with animal urges and instincts. It can be "addressed," it can be "discouraged," it can be "illegal," but at the end of the day another kid is going to drive another kid to an early death simply because hundreds of thousands of years of evolution have hard coded and rewarded that behavior.

 

[⋖ cørdion ⋗]

Working in the health sector: The bully2nurse pipeline is very real. For every selfless angel nurse, there's 9 thots. I saw an event with 120 nurses and more than half of them had long nails, big lips, tattoos up the neck and dreadlocks. Which can be good in dealing with psych ward patients but sure as shit not bedside manner.

Bullying works when it's meant to be a last-ditch effort to help someone. It rarely is. Bullying works when you jab at something you (and they) know they can change. The famous daily "you fat fuck" texts worked out cause it was a friend with interest in him losing weight. Telling a random bimbo she's being unlikeable and is the sole reason she has no friends is unlikely to change anything compared to her 'bestie' of years saying it before ghosting her.

 

[Safir]

Where is the line between good and bad bullying?

Bad bullying is crime-but-for-age-of-perp. (I understand this is a bad definition, given that anything can be a crime in CURRENT_YEAR, but) generally speaking, as a sane person, everything that you want to be a crime when committed by adults should be prosecuted through juvie when committed by children who are too young for the act to count as an adult crime on adult terms.

I don't like the word "bullying", because it's important to not conflate these acts with legal "bullying" (any deviation from #BeKind, which should not have a name at all), and because it's important to name the crime.

 

[ToroidalBoat]

You and I might know that the best way to prevent this is to bully the ever loving fuck out of these men, but how long can we keep that up before they become "oppressed".

that doesn't do anything

I think there's 2 extremes: excess conformity on one side (like Japan and/or Korea seem to be), and freakishness like "Chris Chan" or guys marrying AI chatbots on the other.

 

[Party Hat Wurmple]

I think there's 2 extremes: excess conformity on one side (like Japan and/or Korea seem to be), and freakishness like "Chris Chan" or guys marrying AI chatbots on the other.

The world is soy. Men are weak across the global. Bullying is needed.

 

[Glory To Arztotska]

Positive reinforcement for not doing dumb shit, perhaps?

 

[One Winged Pear Farmer]

Bullying is like comedy; if it makes someone laugh it’s hard to call it bad