Why do we put so much stock into loli/underaged characters as a direct link to being a pedo?

[The Ugly One]

Where is your Seal of Orichalcos? Since you haven't played this card at all you cannot banish your opponent to the Shadow Realm, they will instead be sent to the showers before being let back onto the convention floor.

Telling a Yugioh convention attendant that he may not return until he's taken a shower and banishing him to the Shadow Realm are basically the same thing.

 

[CHARizard]

I will preface this with that I am very well aware that I am an anime avatar, so I am biased towards liking anime already.

That being said, I think its one thing to watch anime with young characters in it, its a whole other ballgame to have porn of those characters.

I also think its ok to say "I like that characters design!" but again, if you are jizzing on a statue of that character in your goon cave theres a real cause for concern. I like Gurren Lagann, its a top 5 anime for me personally as a mecha fan, but I wouldnt buy a Yoko pillow and fuck it every night like some degenerates. Also Yoko is a weak design in a show that has Simon and Kamina, shes pure coomerbait for cosplay and merch.

I agree with the sentiment thats its a slippery slope into real degeneracy. My main beef with AI art at the moment is that it had to get trained off something, and if its AI porn of a young looking girl it doesnt matter if its not real, it was still trained off of CSAM somehow. Allowing that to continue in my mind, perpetuates the spread of CSAM and I am not okay with that.

 

[Spud]

Telling a Yugioh convention attendant that he may not return until he's taken a shower and banishing him to the Shadow Realm are basically the same thing.

It's okay, we have a small scale one that's just 6 cans of Lynx (Axe) Africa we dose the loser in.

 

[Lightsaber Dildo]

It's the intent of the artist. If she's stacked, has adult characteristics, she's intended to be mature. If she looks 5, she's 5 and the artistis a fucking creep if he tries to do anything sexual. It's not hard.

You are making 2+2 the formula to get to the moon. If it's disgusting, vile, it's bad. Literally trust your gut.

We don't "trust your gut" in a court of law, buddy. We need facts and evidence to support our claims if we intend to put these filthy degenerate lolicons in jail.

You can trust your gut about a lolicon on twitter and block them, but according to anti-loli logic, that wouldn't stop them from touching a kid, would it?

 

[WelperHelper99]

We don't "trust your gut" in a court of law, buddy. We need facts and evidence to support our claims if we intend to put these filthy degenerate lolicons in jail.

You can trust your gut about a lolicon on twitter and block them, but according to anti-loli logic, that wouldn't stop them from touching a kid, would it?

The law does rely on trusting your gut though. That's how a jury decides these obscenity cases at the end of the day.

Even then, it DOES stop kid touching. I'm not letting my nephews around a lolicon. I don't think any sane parent would.

 

[BeerEternity]

My main beef with AI art at the moment is that it had to get trained off something, and if its AI porn of a young looking girl it doesnt matter if its not real, it was still trained off of CSAM somehow.

AI models are trained using real kids, stable diffusion one of the most popular models had CSAM. A study showed it had over 3200 pics of suspected CSAM

 

[PermaLurker69]

I understand it's absurd, the thing with this viewpoint is it still presents a contradiction.

nigga just stop.

You know well enough to know that two things can be true at the same time but contradict each other and that finding some minor contradictions doesnt make you some mastermind.

That and more importantly if you google loli or lolicon, this shit aint showing up in the first 50 pages of image results. Though it is fucking weird to assign 14 to coomer bait.

 

[Starved Artist]

Simple: It's an easy target. Nobody wants to do any actual research or investigation into a person.
You can't simply judge someone by looks anymore.
Here's a convicted pedophile, who has hurt children, most people wouldn't even know Zara was convicted.
Meanwhile, there are people who have never touched a child, will never touch a child and are content with a drawing are being dragged through the dirt.
It's not a lesser evil thing, it's putting the a real person first.

 

[Starved Artist]

AI models are trained using real kids, stable diffusion one of the most popular models had CSAM. A study showed it had over 3200 pics of suspected CSAM

Suspected CSAM. I looked at that. Let me keep it real simple.

You cannot pull a 100% image from the training data of a model. When trained properly, not a dreambooth model, not a textual inversion, not an injection, lora or lyco, you can never get access to anything an model was trained with. These things? You can pull the training data from. People using Chillout desended models cry bout everyone being asian, forgetting that the original Chillout model was nothing but asian models and and asian porn. Or did we forget that r/jailbait used to be a thing? Did we forget about the thousands of modeling and "modeling" websites that existed? All of that stuff that was indexed into Google and various search engines, was scraped. None of that information can be directly extracted.

Imagine if you shredded one hundred playboy magazines using a privacy shredder, and mixed them together. Theoeretically, you could put the magazines back together, in 10,000 years. That's where the whole suspected CSAM. They don't know what they're looking at. It could be a petite pornstar getting her ass destroyed or it could be webcam footage of a kidnapping and rape.

Another fun note : Erasing the concept of children from a model actually causes a lot of damage to the model. Without the concept of children, it messes with hair , style, body formation and even animals.

I'm not getting into the morals of the argument, I'm just telling it as it is.

 

[Lightsaber Dildo]

The law does rely on trusting your gut though. That's how a jury decides these obscenity cases at the end of the day.

Even then, it DOES stop kid touching. I'm not letting my nephews around a lolicon. I don't think any sane parent would.

If you trust society to be smart enough to know what a lolicon is, but also NOT trust society to avoid touching kids after looking at drawings of them, I don't know how you even find the intelligence to remember to breathe.

nigga just stop.

You know well enough to know that two things can be true at the same time but contradict each other and that finding some minor contradictions doesnt make you some mastermind.

That and more importantly if you google loli or lolicon, this shit aint showing up in the first 50 pages of image results. Though it is fucking weird to assign 14 to coomer bait.

Contradictions are important, retard. They are literally what decide in conflicting testimonies if you go to jail, a good detective will be able to point out inconsistencies and contradictions to help determine suspects in criminal cases. It's not about being a mastermind, it's about how the law is applied. And trying to outlaw lolicon is downright unenforcable, that's why the law exists but it's only applied when REAL CP is found.

 

[SSj_Ness (Yiffed)]

It would be sane to regulate it on the basis of demonstrable harm caused; e.g. the desensitization to violence of young consumers. Meanwhile, it would be insane to regulate it on the basis of hypothetical projected feelings of enjoyment, which you have categorized as unacceptable and illegal for someone to feel.

Sounds like semantics to me.

Something being obscene doesn't stop it from being art. Of course it doesn't make it art either, it comes down to the individual piece of work.

If something obscene can be art, then what does it come down to beyond obscenity?

Remember that something can also be obscene without being sexual: a painting of Muhammad would be considered obscene by over one billion people on earth and many famous art pieces we love today where considered extremely controversial/offensive at one point in time.

Of course, such as violence. Obscenity is defined as "disgusting to the senses :REPULSIVE", but Muhammad wouldn't really fit that, it's closer of blasphemous or more generically offensive than obscene in the sense of the word most people would consider it.

There's media of Christ which depicts him in blasphemous ways, but I wouldn't describe it as obscene. The law even distinguished between the two, with obscenity laws and blasphemy laws.

The idea that art can't be offensive, obscene, or sexual is ridiculous.

I think it can be offensive to a point, that point being the point of obscenity. There's a line where something ceases to be artistic expression and is merely an obscene expression. Not all expression is art.

In my opinion it's not.

Let's be reasonable. It is, and here's a flawless analogy nobody could rebut, which I made in a previous thread:

How many Yugioh video game fans have ZERO interest in real Yugioh cards?

Now, yeah, maybe they don't all actually want to play the real card game, sure. It's more expensive, time consuming, inconvenient, perhaps even embarrassing, etc to play the real game, and those practical reasons are probably why the bulk of gamers who don't play the real games choose digital Yugioh instead.

However, the vast majority would play real Yugioh if they were rich, had unlimited time, could play in private; they'd fly to Epstein Yugioh Island, grab their decks, and blow their Life Points using real cards. That's the undeniable reality, with their practical reasons for abstaining from real Yugioh removed there's no barrier to engaging in their real interests anymore.

I will concede there's possibly a negligible minority who just truly have no interest in playing the actual card game, maybe some minutiae exclusive to the video game experience is somehow integral to their interests for them. Perhaps the UI, music, monster animations, etc which cannot be replicated in real Yugioh are enough to be a dealbreaker on their own. But that doesn't change the fact that the overlap is like 99%.

A majority of the anime characters I know of that fit the commonly accepted criteria of "loli" do not even look or act like real children. At best, they're proportioned more like petite girls with giant heads, and at worst, they don't even look human.

Most anime characters don't look human technically, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be banned or that it isn't still obscene, or that you can't identify certain characters as children. The petite excuse only goes so far, especially given context clues, such as settings, attire, and story elements.

Your plausible deniability petite waifu is a child if she's wearing a school uniform, is at school, and is a child in the story, and not looking realistic doesn't absolve you.

It's still pretty gross and uncomfortable, but not as reprehensible as looking at characters like Kanna from Dragon Maid or Anya from Spy x Family, who no matter their appearance, are written as children in their setting.

Without looking I can promise you there's copious amounts of Anya hentai. You're fooling yourself if you think otherwise, and I don't believe you're this naive.

people who think teenage anime girls are arousing should be given just as much scrutiny as any other pedophile.

No, that is an obfuscation tactic to try lumping, say, Bulma in with Anya; the former is indistinguishable from the other adults in the series, which isn't true of Anya.

Maybe if the story rubbed your face in Bulma's age and fetishized it, but it's literally mentioned like once, she's never in a schoolgirl uniform, or behaves like a child (she looks and acts the same well into her 20's & 30's). Bulma is basically just a woman as far as physical appearance & character are concerned, canon age means less or we'd have to accept the 9000 year old loli vampire meme as legit, which nobody does.

Which I hope not, because the writer for that series wrote a loli guro porn VN.

That's fucked up.

 

[PermaLurker69]

Contradictions are important, retard. They are literally what decide in conflicting testimonies if you go to jail, a good detective will be able to point out inconsistencies and contradictions to help determine suspects in criminal cases. It's not about being a mastermind, it's about how the law is applied. And trying to outlaw lolicon is downright unenforcable, that's why the law exists but it's only applied when REAL CP is fouund.

Wtf do you mean, there is contradictions in everything. Science/law/math, what matters is how relevant the contradiction is. Laws have exceptions because they contradict. The yoko argument is near irrelevant when its not what lolicon lovers are cooming 2. Its like saying trannies are valid because of a few minor contradictions with people having both penises and vaginas.

To add to that, I've never known very many gradeschoolers who look like adults. I knew one who looked like an adult, but she was tall and lanky with glasses but not attractive. Passed as a teacher rather than a student. That doesn't make it okay to lust after someone like that.

Likewise pornstars who put on braces and backpacks to look way younger is also reprehensible. Its both that are wrong, not just one or the other.

Edit: adding to what ssj:ness is saying, people know what nsfw is and why it exists. They know why they get fired or kicked out of a public area with nsfw shit on their phone, and if they don't know what obscene/nsfw is, how do you function in front of others?

 

[WelperHelper99]

If you trust society to be smart enough to know what a lolicon is, but also NOT trust society to avoid touching kids after looking at drawings of them, I don't know how you even find the intelligence to remember to breathe.

I'm pretty fucking sure the VAST majority of society doesn't even think about touching kids. It's the minority you have to worry about. A jury of 12 plus a judge has enough checks that I can trust a judgment, if something is severe enough to get the attention of a court in the first place.

 

[Mewtwo_Rain]

If something obscene can be art, then what does it come down to beyond obscenity?

It's primarily intent. Imagine if you will playing GTA and littering the ground with bodies of NPC's that's not really art by any metric. Now if I drew a depiction of say CJ or any other protag littering the ground with bodies, that could be art despite being obscene and a similar concept to what I did in game.

No, that is an obfuscation tactic to try lumping, say, Bulma in with Anya; the former is indistinguishable from the other adults in the series, which isn't true of Anya.

I'll agree with the notion but I would be weary, some Japanese mangaka purposely make underage characters look more mature to try to leverage the idea it's ok to sexualize young girls as long as they are well developed, and I think that's a path down the slippery slope nobody should encourage at all. It may protect the less developed girls from pedophiles but not the more developed. It's more a pedophile attempt to muddy the waters of what people will let skirt in these kind of arguments to justify their attempts in other regards which is a big deal that many aren't realizing that they are being played to justify that behavior by claiming it's an obfuscation. Yes and no. (It can be but people shouldn't merely brush it off as such there is a reason to acknowledge said argument as more than just obfuscation on the opposing view)

In regards to your Yugioh analogy, I don't think it's really that good tbh:

The reason is Yugioh has many spin offs that don't even play like the real card game: IE: Duelist of the Roses. Even the ones that do are based on either old formats or ignore specific rules of how Yugioh was played to actually make a similar concept. (Forbidden Memories)

 

[Super Dilator Duel 3D]

I will preface this with that I am very well aware that I am an anime avatar,

to be totally fair to you there’s a significant difference between having a teenage girl as an avatar and a fire dragon with sunglasses as an avatar even if both are technically still anime

 

[WelperHelper99]

I'll agree with the notion but I would be weary, some Japanese mangaka purposely make underage characters look more mature to try to leverage the idea it's ok to sexualize young girls as long as they are well developed, and I think that's a path down the slippery slope nobody should encourage at all. It may protect the less developed girls from pedophiles but not the more developed. It's more a pedophile attempt to muddy the waters of what people will let skirt in these kind of arguments to justify their attempts in other regards which is a big deal that many aren't realizing that they are being played to justify that behavior by claiming it's an obfuscation. Yes and no. (It can be but people shouldn't merely brush it off as such there is a reason to acknowledge said argument as more than just obfuscation on the opposing view)

I think it's a good point to be brought up. A lot of times you have to ask why the characters are teenagers when adults could be swapped in with zero difference to the story. Especially when the character design would already fit a adult.

 

[skykiii]

This will always makes me confused, and wonder why people are so eager to stand by their cartoons. There is literally no reason for this. Every character is always both specialised and drawn to appeal to coomers but also canonically a teenager. I really don't think it's projection when I say I believe the only reason this is done is to give the people drawing it and consuming it the ability to enact their sexual fantasies of being attracted to high school age girls.

Thing is.... you're spot-on.

What a lot of people forget is that anime is literally meant for kids and teenagers.

This doesn't excuse the adult coomers, of course, but it does explain why anime has so much teen sexualization--its because the audience wants girls who are the same age as them.

(As for the times anime sexualizes pre-teens? .... Honestly for me the possibility its just adult pedos is less creepy than the idea they're trying to make porn for kids).

 

[Mewtwo_Rain]

What a lot of people forget is that anime is literally meant for kids and teenagers.

This doesn't excuse the adult coomers, of course, but it does explain why anime has so much teen sexualization--its because the audience wants girls who are the same age as them.

One problem with this idea, anime is made by adults. The reason it is sexualized regardless of age of characters is because of standard selling practice. sexualization sells. Blame it on consumerism. Marketing isn't about morals merely what grants the largest amount of money. You can see this even in gaming such as Metroid. When Samus was revealed she wasn't just shown as a woman but in a skimpy pixelated outfit for obvious reasons. Comics, and more.

As mentioned a second ago the audience isn't creating the desired girls, and the adults who are are basically just novelizing them, it's not in any means intended to sell hot girls to teens. Otherwise they'd make them more realistic to actual teen girls instead of being aliens, and other such non-human concepts, are they peddaling furries/etc. to teens? The obvious answer is no, it'll just sell because sex sells.

 

[Twilight Twill*^]

I've noticed that sexual depictions in media tend to leave a profound impression on individuals' brains hence, how porn addicts' brains are overstimulated when proven in a study. Furthermore, since sex is a combination of emotional/physical pleasure( even masturbation) it's evident that exposure to sexual media converts any receptive watcher into an enjoyer, either slowly or rapidly, depending on the person. The aforementioned fact is true especially when kids, impressionable people, autistic people, innocent individuals or any combinations of these traits are exposed to sexual material. After all, loli, hentai, foot fetishes, furries, and step-family porn didn't exist in a vacuum, some poor shmucks were exposed to said degeneracy as a minor/impressionable time. Oh, and what a coincidence, these deranged fetish communities have a portion/are comprised of autists.

Comparing loli to violence is a false equivalence, since violent media doesn't arouse normal people, nor compel them to emulate such actions, unless they're a psychopath and/or retarded. Ultimately, just keep kids away from both porn and violent media.

In terms of loli, loligooners compensate for claiming to be attracted to "petite body types" which never has any adult characteristics, only childish fashion and features, therefore it's bullshit since petite adult ≠ loli.

Altogether, the lolicons are borderline pedos and they've been getting very uppity in recent years. Why are they redefining loli as a body type? Why are they forming ban campaigns on Twitter against detractors? Why can't they slink away in their perverted discord/guilded groups? It's like they want to be brazen and seen as a marginalized group like the LGBT. We don't need to wait for the government to ban loli material, all normies have to do is socially shame/ridicule lolicons online and offline.

P.S. This discourse wouldn't exist if ALL PORN was banned in most countries, right Kiwis?

 

[WelperHelper99]

One problem with this idea, anime is made by adults. The reason it is sexualized regardless of age of characters is because of standard selling practice. sexualization sells. Blame it on consumerism. Marketing isn't about morals merely what grants the largest amount of money. You can see this even in gaming such as Metroid. When Samus was revealed she wasn't just shown as a woman but in a skimpy pixelated outfit for obvious reasons. Comics, and more.

As mentioned a second ago the audience isn't creating the desired girls, and the adults who are are basically just novelizing them, it's not in any means intended to sell hot girls to teens. Otherwise they'd make them more realistic to actual teen girls instead of being aliens, and other such non-human concepts, are they peddaling furries/etc. to teens? The obvious answer is no, it'll just sell because sex sells.

Sadly correct. And that unfortunately makes good shows hard to bring up in what you would call good company. Its kinda hard to explain a show where everyone in a high school is packing big jiggly d cups. Or the fact they're in high school at all and not, say, college.

Now sexulization of little girls? I don't know what "normal" person that appeals to. And they do it a lot. They'll have a token loli in a anime that... basically does nothing. Maybe 1 major scene or episode out of the 12 episode run. But pedo creeps like it. I fucking hate it.