Why do we put so much stock into loli/underaged characters as a direct link to being a pedo?

Sadly correct. And that unfortunately makes good shows hard to bring up in what you would call good company. Its kinda hard to explain a show where everyone in a high school is packing big jiggly d cups. Or the fact they're in high school at all and not, say, college.

Now sexulization of little girls? I don't know what "normal" person that appeals to. And they do it a lot. They'll have a token loli in a anime that... basically does nothing. Maybe 1 major scene or episode out of the 12 episode run. But pedo creeps like it. I fucking hate it.
Well it all goes back to the marketing angle. As it doesn't care about morals only reaching the most amount of sales, pedos, and creeps are still part of those sales on average. I think another concern is the "little sister/incest" archtype in anime as well.

However, I would make one distinct exception some characters are merely meant to fit an aesthetic not because they are young but based on lore or mythology: IE: Touhou's Suwako for instance, is a water nymph IIRC so although it seemed suspect at first as to why the character was created like a young girl who gave birth but after seeing the reference to water nymp's I can at least understand the base concept. I think the major problem is Japan's culture somehow formed around pedo's, or psychopaths who rule our world (including Japan) are natural omnisexuals and thus pedophilia falls as part of the culture of who has dominated every country in the world. Sociopaths and psychopaths.

since violent media doesn't arouse normal people
That's not true at all. This is why normal people hate reading boring books, and crave action packed (violent) movies. It gives a dopamine hit over time and the problem is most of society has adapted to crave action/fast paced media. It's why slow-burn, well thought out or set up movies/etc. Aren't as popular outright. It hits an easy fix, and it even effects adults, why I primarily disagree with the notion sexual content is not the same as violent. They are both similar on effects on the brain and most people are unable to resist both stimulations from said media.

The same is true for horror (fear inducing movies/etc.) and more. It also creates a desenticization to lesser versions. IE: Nobody finds the original Halloween scary anymore so film producers have had to ramp up horror films.
 
Well it all goes back to the marketing angle. As it doesn't care about morals only reaching the most amount of sales, pedos, and creeps are still part of those sales on average. I think another concern is the "little sister/incest" archtype in anime as well.
Don't remind me about the little sister shit. That is actual cancer.
However, I would make one distinct exception some characters are merely meant to fit an aesthetic not because they are young but based on lore or mythology: IE: Touhou's Suwako for instance, is a water nymph IIRC so although it seemed suspect at first as to why the character was created like a young girl who gave birth but after seeing the reference to water nymp's I can at least understand the base concept.
Ok if we're getting into very old mythology... look, i KINDA get it. It also just depends on how far the modern creator goes as well. A lot of that shit was supposed to scare you, tell you a moral about something. If we're crossing the line from mysterious to "let's fuck the water nymph", you're doing it wrong.
ItI think the major problem is Japan's culture somehow formed around pedo's, or psychopaths who rule our world (including Japan) are natural omnisexuals and thus pedophilia falls as part of the culture of who has dominated every country in the world. Sociopaths and psychopaths.
I think Japan's problem is they're all stuck on that island, in they're own NEET kingdom. The pedo shit became much more blatant because they're hermits.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Twilight Twill*^
"normal" people aren't sexually aroused by violence.
They do enjoy watching it, which is massively different than seeking it out for sexual pleasure. I can watch Robocop and get pumped during the shoot outs but I'm not... well you know. Okay maybe to Lewis but at least she's an adult.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: pot of sneed
Ok if we're getting into very old mythology... look, i KINDA get it. It also just depends on how far the modern creator goes as well. A lot of that shit was supposed to scare you, tell you a moral about something. If we're crossing the line from mysterious to "let's fuck the water nymph", you're doing it wrong.

I think Japan's problem is they're all stuck on that island, in they're own NEET kingdom. The pedo shit became much more blatant because they're hermits.
To clarify I don't think Touhou's creator has tried to make every character "sexy." Suwako having a child is odd [and looking like a child I mean] but at least make sense when based on said mythology. She may look "cutesy" but that is how most girls in anime look, either cute, or sexy. Because marketing needs to make it sell and I'd actually argue it's dumb to purposely make a character ugly unless done intentionally for symbolism or something similar.

IIRC hearing right when Japan was insular around 1930's didn't people claim sights of mass pedophilia going on before the bombs were dropped that may have something to do with its prominence in their specific culture.
 
Without looking I can promise you there's copious amounts of Anya hentai. You're fooling yourself if you think otherwise, and I don't believe you're this naive.
You misread what I said, I was not stating it didn't exist, I was stating that Anya hentai is not as morally corrupt as Yoko hentai.
No, that is an obfuscation tactic to try lumping, say, Bulma in with Anya; the former is indistinguishable from the other adults in the series, which isn't true of Anya.
What you're implying is that the age of the character does not matter, only their appearance. You're literally saying it's okay to nut to child porn, as long as the "child" looks adult. Why in the world would we only judge fictional characters this way when we hold real people to the standard age of consent of 18? By all logic, it should be if the character either looks or is underage, it's considered obscene. That's actually what the law says anyway.

So if you were ever aroused by Dragonball Bulma, Yoko Littner, or basically any highschooler anime girl, face the wall.
 
To clarify I don't think Touhou's creator has tried to make every character "sexy." Suwako having a child is odd [and looking like a child I mean] but at least make sense when based on said mythology. She may look "cutesy" but that is how most girls in anime look, either cute, or sexy. Because marketing needs to make it sell and I'd actually argue it's dumb to purposely make a character ugly unless done intentionally for symbolism or something similar.
Oh. Touhou. I just know the Fandom is nuts. Again, it depends how the mythology is handled.
IIRC hearing right when Japan was insular around 1930's didn't people claim sights of mass pedophilia going on before the bombs were dropped that may have something to do with its prominence in their specific culture.
Well to be frank, the radiation might have lead to some genetic defects. Like pedophilic urges. Idk, a lot of shit went down.
 
Oh. Touhou. I just know the Fandom is nuts. Again, it depends how the mythology is handled.

Well to be frank, the radiation might have lead to some genetic defects. Like pedophilic urges. Idk, a lot of shit went down.
Touhou used to be sane, but leftist took over the fanbase from what I recall sadly. Before when they were just dedicated I appreciated the effort they put in to the series such as teh doujin music circles.

My bad I was meaning prior to any bomb droppings as in Japan prior to the bombs falling when the west went over supposedly at that time pedophilia was already heavily present in their culture. Basically similar to our current western culture, evil succeeded because the good men did nothing thus it spread like wild fire through their nation.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: WelperHelper99
Touhou used to be sane, but leftist took over the fanbase from what I recall sadly. Before when they were just dedicated I appreciated the effort they put in to the series such as teh doujin music circles.
I've seen some of the older games, they're just bullet hell shooters. I don't really get why Touhou got so fucking pozzed. Some of that shit looks like I could play it in a browser.
My bad I was meaning prior to any bomb droppings as in Japan prior to the bombs falling when the west went over supposedly at that time pedophilia was already heavily present in their culture. Basically similar to our current western culture, evil succeeded because the good men did nothing thus it spread like wild fire through their nation.
To be fair, it seems to have always been a struggle for the nips. Actual child porn wasn't outlawed until the 2010's. And they only just got around to updating the age of consent to... 16. There is something about that island man.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Mewtwo_Rain
I've seen some of the older games, they're just bullet hell shooters. I don't really get why Touhou got so fucking pozzed. Some of that shit looks like I could play it in a browser.

To be fair, it seems to have always been a struggle for the nips. Actual child porn wasn't outlawed until the 2010's. And they only just got around to updating the age of consent to... 16. There is something about that island man.
I feel like just saying "18 or bust" is stupid. Again, the standard age of consent is designed to provide a baseline for mental maturity. I don't think anyone genuinely believes the "she was 17 years 364 days blah blah" argument is anything but bad faith, but the actual number doesn't matter. We just decided based on science that was when it was okay. I knew 20 year olds in college with me that were pantshitting retarded compared to at the time 17 year olds in high school.

To be clear, I am not advocating for the age of consent to be lowered, I'm saying that if the story is fictional, it doesn't matter nearly as much.
 
  • Autistic
Reactions: WelperHelper99
I've seen some of the older games, they're just bullet hell shooters. I don't really get why Touhou got so fucking pozzed. Some of that shit looks like I could play it in a browser.

To be fair, it seems to have always been a struggle for the nips. Actual child porn wasn't outlawed until the 2010's. And they only just got around to updating the age of consent to... 16. There is something about that island man.
Touhou has been infiltrated due to the same reason Pokemon has just on a smaller scale. It draws a lot of people due to all the fan projects in different areas: Music, games, etc. It was also heavily popular on youtube for a time around 2010/2011 which is where they saw to influence it. The good part is Zun isn't effected by them as far as I can tell, but then again who knows if it would be apparent if he was.

Possibly I actually need to do a big read on Japan's development and cultural/legal changes throughout history. it's been on my back log.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: WelperHelper99
I feel like just saying "18 or bust" is stupid. Again, the standard age of consent is designed to provide a baseline for mental maturity. I don't think anyone genuinely believes the "she was 17 years 364 days blah blah" argument is anything but bad faith, but the actual number doesn't matter. We just decided based on science that was when it was okay. I knew 20 year olds in college with me that were pantshitting retarded compared to at the time 17 year olds in high school.

To be clear, I am not advocating for the age of consent to be lowered, I'm saying that if the story is fictional, it doesn't matter nearly as much.
But it does matter. 18 is when you can get drafted. Hense 18 is the baseline for adulthood.
Touhou has been infiltrated due to the same reason Pokemon has just on a smaller scale. It draws a lot of people due to all the fan projects in different areas: Music, games, etc. It was also heavily popular on youtube for a time around 2010/2011 which is where they saw to influence it. The good part is Zun isn't effected by them as far as I can tell, but then again who knows if it would be apparent if he was.
Ah. The Tumblr plague got it. Sad.
Possibly I actually need to do a big read on Japan's development and cultural/legal changes throughout history. it's been on my back log.
I mean it's interesting if nothing else, since a lot of the legal development happened while they went full isolationist mode.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Mewtwo_Rain
IMG_7006.jpeg
 
IIRC hearing right when Japan was insular around 1930's didn't people claim sights of mass pedophilia going on before the bombs were dropped that may have something to do with its prominence in their specific culture.

My bad I was meaning prior to any bomb droppings as in Japan prior to the bombs falling when the west went over supposedly at that time pedophilia was already heavily present in their culture.

To be fair, it seems to have always been a struggle for the nips. Actual child porn wasn't outlawed until the 2010's. And they only just got around to updating the age of consent to... 16. There is something about that island man.
You guys are onto something. Here's a video describing what "Chigo" are. TL:DW: Young Japanese boys are sent off to monasteries to be instructed by monks only to be groomed and trooned into their sex slaves into adulthood. This was normalized in ANCIENT JAPAN.

The channel in question has various videos on ancient Japanese degeneracy.

 
You guys are onto something. Here's a video describing what "Chigo" are. TL:biggrin:W: Young Japanese boys are sent off to monasteries to be instructed by monks only to be groomed and trooned into their sex slaves into adulthood. This was normalized in ANCIENT JAPAN.

The channel in question has various videos on ancient Japanese degeneracy.

How about... no. That just sounds like that Bachi Baza rape thing the Muslims do with young boys. Not surprised.
 
How about... no. That just sounds like that Bachi Baza rape thing the Muslims do with young boys. Not surprised.
Sorry about that. Since the discussion was shifting to Japan's past rampant pedophilia, I wanted to address some documentaries that showcased disgusting aspects of their bygone culture.
 
You guys are onto something. Here's a video describing what "Chigo" are. TL:biggrin:W: Young Japanese boys are sent off to monasteries to be instructed by monks only to be groomed and trooned into their sex slaves into adulthood. This was normalized in ANCIENT JAPAN.

The channel in question has various videos on ancient Japanese degeneracy.

Now I'm starting to see why boy love shit is so popular from Japan. Let alone some tropes from older manga.
 
Heh...if this wasn't kiwifarms I'd suggest wearing sunglasses, the glow in this thread would be so strong.
Meanwhile, if you sick fucks just can't resist jerking off to obviously underage/undeveloped girls you should seek psychiatric help instead of trying to justify your paraphilia (here of all the places).
Or rope, rope works too.
 
since KF attracts a lot of reactionary cultural warrior types, small rhetorical distinctions in various topics tend to be thrown out in favor of rabid moralizing and frothing at the mouth. I know this thread is a fucking trap but the OP has asked an earnest question so I want to respect his effort with an earnest answer. that said, I will lead with the following disclaimer: obviously I do not morally approve of fucking kids, nor do I accept that drawn pedophilia is an acceptable outlet for real pedophiles, nor do I agree that there is no link between drawn CSAM and real pedophilic tendencies which may lead to real child abuse. we are now leaving moral spergery at the door and exploring this subject academically. if you do not approve, leave your trash can sticker at the door and go away.

to start: the issue of precisely how media and real-world behavior interact is difficult and, I believe, very poorly understood. in fact I believe the precursors for human behavior generally are very poorly understood. the human mind seems fundamentally unable to fully understand itself. that's the first data point to stick to the board here.

that's not to say there aren't correlations between types of behavior and media consumption habits. for example, being a furry doesn't make you a dogfucker, but a suspiciously large number of dogfuckers have some degree of intersection with the furry subculture. so, which came first? which one feeds the other? is there a deeper, unseen root that feeds both of them? if you managed to tear one of them out of somebody's brain, would the other fall out with it? these are deeply individual questions and unanswerable without conjecture. so here's my conjecture.

for starters, I think that not all types of media are able to influence behavior to the same degree. for example, somebody with an affinity for gun violence is not likely going to get a deep level of satisfaction out of something like a conventional video game. clicking at pixels on a screen is nothing like killing a real living thing with a real gun. for one, the tactile experience of handling a firearm is something that's very difficult to satisfyingly replicate outside of the real thing (and it's not difficult to get a real gun anyway). but more poignantly, even in the most violent games, truly realistic depictions of death are so rare as to be effectively nonexistent, as the overwhelming majority of people find it deeply unpleasant. you would not want to play a game where shooting somebody was followed by them realistically suffocating on their own blood, or rolling around on the ground screaming, or going into convulsions as blood and gray matter gushed out of the hole you just punched in their head. so somebody who has real murderous urges would more likely be drawn to much more niche media like snuff rather than the kind of violent media the average person engages with.

sex media, on the other hand, is pretty close to the real thing. in fact, I would argue that sex media is better than the real thing in particular, important ways. it's true that just jerking yourself off isn't the same kind of physical stimulation as real sex. but let's break down the actual psychological experience of sex. to my mind, three things emerge as primary components: mental stimulation (context, environment, the idea of the sex); visual stimulation (sexual stimulation you get just from looking at things); and physical stimulation (the actual physical friction). all three of these things influence each other and different people have different affinities for each. some people get a lot from mental stimulation (fetishists, i.e. BDSM types, who only get their best nut in highly specific situations), some from visual (i.e. people with specific visual fetishes like big tits/big ass, lingerie, etc). but there's only so much you can do with the physical aspect. I would argue that although it is undoubtedly the core of the experience, it is actually the weakest of the three components, and a lot of people lean on the other two to make the experience more interesting. and this is the dread power of sex media: it is extremely good at both mental and visual stimulation. in fact - much like a deep sea documentary likely interests you because you have no ability to go there yourself in any form - sex media can bring you mental and visual stimulation you will probably never experience in your real life. more importantly, sex media can bring you idealized versions of mental and visual stimulation that are not nearly as pleasant in real life - for example, depictions of incest. this is the great Pandora's Box of pornography. idealization is the juice the human psyche runs on. the level of idealization of sex that's only possible in sex media is the root of the so-called "addiction" exhibited by people who engage with it regularly.

drawn sex media, however, is one step beyond - through the proper use of artistic technique, it can activate the same pattern matching components in your brain that cause visual stimulation, while also bending the rules of reality, opening possibilities for a level of mental stimulation not achievable by simple photographs or recordings. idealized body types don't need to be sought out or created through surgical intervention. the only thing required is a few strokes of a skilled artists' hand. context and story can be created on a whim; acting skill isn't necessary or even relevant. as with any artistic medium, a whole fantastic reality can be poured onto a page and brought to life with nothing more than a little ingenuity and technique. you can even create a reality where - for example - a prepubescent child can enjoy sex, perhaps even to the point of soliciting for it... perhaps even to the point of enjoying being raped.

humans always want to project their expectations on reality. those expectations overwhelmingly tend to be idealized simplifications or impressions of reality. these expectations also tend to be inherited from other people, perhaps with some personal modifications, but the seed, at least, was planted by an interaction with somebody else. the idealization of sex in sex media represents one such interaction that may or may not result in such a seed-planting. here we come to the previously mentioned difficulty of parsing the relationship between emergent behavior and media consumption. however - although this is by no means an absolute certainty - it is not so difficult to imagine that somebody might develop pedophilic tendencies by pursuing pleasure through sex media, absorbing a lot of idealized notions about having sex with children, to the point where they're unable to resist indulging their curiosity when given an opportunity to. it is also, in my opinion, a complete no-brainer that people who have already given themselves over to this kind of behavior are absolutely using drawn CSAM to further idealize their own favored acts in their mind. like the killer mentioned above, I would expect real pedophiles who have actually fucked a child or who are actively trying to would be more drawn to real child pornography (deviancy and taboo are a big part of the thrill), but the two are not mutually exclusive, like dogfuckers and furry art.

tl;dr: violent media does not make you violent, but sex media does make you perverted.
 
I think there's a semantic issue here. In english 'pedophile' is used to denote those that merely wank to children (and want to fuck them) and those who straight up fuck them. Anybody who enjoys loli/cub porn/shota whatever is a pedophile in the first sense of the word and so deserves to be shunned and separated from children, however, they really shouldn't be treated like the second kind of pedophile for the same reasons crime thoughts are BS, nobody should be arrested from having a propensity to commit crimes.
 
Back