Opinion Why would Ukraine kill its own heroes? Don’t fall for Kremlin propaganda.

Link (Archive)

Why would Ukraine kill its own heroes? Don’t fall for Kremlin propaganda.​

This might make sense for the Iran-Iraq war, but there is no moral equivalency between Ukraine and Russia. The Ukrainians are innocent victims of unprovoked aggression. They are not known to deliberately target civilians, much less their own captured soldiers. The Russians are notorious war criminals and liars who routinely blame someone else for every outrage they (or their allies) commit — including shooting down a Malaysian passenger jet over Ukraine in 2014 and slaughtering civilians in Bucha, Ukraine, this year.

It is, of course, possible that an errant Ukrainian artillery strike might have hit the prisoner-of-war camp near Olenivka, in eastern Ukraine. But the Ukrainians deny that they fired any artillery in the area on Friday, and the Russians aren’t claiming a “friendly fire” accident. Russian media claims that the Ukrainians deliberately slaughtered their own soldiers to discourage others from surrendering and to prevent these soldiers, who belonged to the Azov Regiment, from testifying about supposed Ukrainian war crimes.

As usual, Russian propaganda makes no sense. The Azov Regiment surrendered in Mariupol only after receiving orders to do so from Kyiv, and the only war crimes its members witnessed were committed by the Russians against the people of Mariupol. They are heroes in Ukraine, and governments — even governments far less democratic and law-abiding than the one in Kyiv — do not ordinarily kill their own heroes.

The Russians, by contrast, have plenty of reason to murder these soldiers, whose desperate resistance in the Azovstal steel plant cost the Russians dearly and prevented them from shifting forces to the east. The Russian Embassy in London actually tweeted on Friday: “Azov militants deserve execution … because they’re not real soldiers. They deserve a humiliating death.”

The way that Russians treat POWs was evident in a widely circulated video that appears to show a pro-Russian fighter castrating and executing a bound Ukrainian prisoner. The Russians — who have been accused of rape and sexual violence, in addition to killing and deporting countless Ukrainians — seem to be plumbing new depths of depravity in their genocidal war to eradicate the Ukrainian nation.

The invaders’ barbarism can seem atavistic and animalistic, and no doubt it is, but there is a certain logic to their cruelty. Because the Russian army lacks the requisite skill for maneuver warfare, it seeks to prevail by slaughtering civilians, instead. Russian dictator Vladimir Putin has used such scorched-earth tactics before, in Chechnya and Syria, to eradicate all opposition. Only in Ukraine, the Russian barbarism isn’t working. Rather than leading the Ukrainians to capitulate, it is uniting them in armed defense of their nation.

It is not that Ukrainians are necessarily more courageous than Chechen or Syrian rebels. The difference is that, unlike earlier victims of Russian aggression, they have the means to resist the onslaught. Armed with artillery, multiple-launch rocket systems, drones, antitank missiles, antiaircraft missiles and other weapons supplied by the West, the Ukrainians have been fighting back so effectively that the Russian offensive is at a virtual standstill.

The Ukrainians’ most effective weapons system is the U.S.-made High Mobility Artillery Rocket System (HIMARS). That, no doubt, is why the Russians are blaming a HIMARS strike for the deaths of Ukrainian POWs in Olenivka, even though military experts argue that photos of the damage do not reveal the telltale signs of a HIMARS strike. Moreover, the prisoner camp was close to the front lines, and the Ukrainians have reserved HIMARS strikes for targets deep behind Russian lines.

There are other discrepancies, too, including a statement from a Donetsk official that no Russian guards were injured in the attack on Olenivka. How convenient. Now the Russians are refusing to let the International Committee of the Red Cross inspect the site. A senior Pentagon official is right to advise “that we apply some caution … to what the Russians are telling us, just because we know that they have made several claims in the past that have not been close to correct.”

I would go further and suggest that, unless it is proven otherwise, we should assume that every word out of the mouths of Kremlin spokespeople is a lie — including “and” and “the.” That doesn’t mean that Ukraine is always pure or always right. But its track record inspires far greater confidence than Russia’s.
The Ukrainians are trying to obey the laws of war despite the considerable provocations they confront, while the Russians routinely and brazenly flout every norm of civilized behavior. The Russians don’t deserve the benefit of the doubt — and the Ukrainians do.
 
Doesn't matter much-- they'll have to defend their land all the same, if they want to keep it.


The idea of a "war crime" is dumb. You're already murdering people, and nobody's ever going to call you out if you win the war, anyways. Literally nobody cries about how America bombed Tokyo for months during WWII-- why? Because we won.
I thought it was because Japan mocked the Geneva Convention and Americans did follow through with it until Marines got sick of it because Jap's kept suicide bombing them. Lot of Vets I knew who talked about the pacific mentioned that they stopped letting medics treat the wounded enemy until they literally stripped a guy. Most of them didn't start taking prisoners because they thought it wasn't worth risking a guy.

The US did try to curb war crimes in the Pacific. The Firebombing campaigns generally did target factories. It wasn't as bad as Dresden, but Japanese buildings were like tinder and shit spread.
 
I thought it was because Japan mocked the Geneva Convention and Americans did follow through with it until Marines got sick of it because Jap's kept suicide bombing them. Lot of Vets I knew who talked about the pacific mentioned that they stopped letting medics treat the wounded enemy until they literally stripped a guy. Most of them didn't start taking prisoners because they thought it wasn't worth risking a guy.

The US did try to curb war crimes in the Pacific. The Firebombing campaigns generally did target factories. It wasn't as bad as Dresden, but Japanese buildings were like tinder and shit spread.
I'm interested in the vet stories you've heard.

That said, if I wanted to wage war and I knew I had the means, I'd mock the Geneva Conventions, too. Imagine trying to ethicize the mass murder of the citizens of nations by the machinations of the powers of said nations as they're guided by "the times".
 
I'm interested in the vet stories you've heard.

That said, if I wanted to wage war and I knew I had the means, I'd mock the Geneva Conventions, too. Imagine trying to ethicize the mass murder of the citizens of nations by the machinations of the powers of said nations as they're guided by "the times".
I mean generally they exist so war isn't just trying to kill the other side. Euro's still had to live next to someone and wanted some ethical rules like 'Don't kill the fucking medic unless he starts shooting at you', 'Torturing prisoners is bad, don't beat them and starve them intentionally, forced labor is fine tho', 'Surrenders should be honored by the victors,' and 'Don't rape the enemies women and children'.

Most of the Vets I knew did talk about taking spoils. A lot of the ones on the Western Front generally just took a guys watch and would actually leave shit with a woman's name in it like if the watch had an engraving on the back with a date. The guys in the pacific stopped giving a shit even if the guy had a signed picture of what they assumed was his wife.
Most of the guys in the Pacific really didn't have any friends who survived with them through the war, one guy had maybe three in his whole company survive. This was a while ago and I was a teenager and asked if he regretted anything in the war.
He said played God with a lot of injured Japs because he got pissed some guy from the same state as him tried to take one prisoner and the dude pulled a grenade killing like three Americans. He also mentioned an Intelligence officer bribing a bunch of Marines with going to some Pacific Island to have some 'quality R&R' if they stopped killing injured Japs because they needed intel on Japanese troop movements.
 
...but that's what war is.

It's an elaborate game of "Uncle", but with mass murder.

And in the distant past, the goal was sometimes in fact to devastate entire civilizations.
Issue is when the game keeps getting up'd. War is generally a failure of negotiations, when it becomes the first thing you run to because you've created a generational cycle of violence it becomes a problem. It's why Sun Tzu said don't go to war if you don't have to, war crimes exist to literally not cause a Weimar to happen and the losing side to keep some dignity.

You can kill as many German Barbarians as you want, but you can't do that to Egyptians who you rule over. The Romans understood this when dealing with client states. Don't provoke what you cannot destroy.
 
Hey fag boy sorry that the baby rapists that you look up to did another war crime, don't want to hurty your fee fees by showing some evidence.
You are drunk on ukecope you have no idea what you are talking about, as usual. Your pedophalic fantasies are fucking rotting your brain man.
 
  • Winner
Reactions: MrJokerRager
>Russia are Notorious War criminals

Can anyone tell me a single real war crime Russia had commited through its history, because I can't name a single one.
 
  • Thunk-Provoking
Reactions: MrJokerRager
Repost of what I posted a day ago.

So some news about the POW.

It would seem like the Russians killed them. I hate to link to Reddit, but some solid info there.

Satellite Pictures before and after.
Video of the aftermath

All the beds are not thrown about from the impact, there are no secondary impact craters from the 5 other Himar's missiles and no fragments in the video on the walls from the impact. Only scorch marks, so it would seem the Russians burnt 200 POWs alive.
Ukrainian agitprop. You know those gryvnias they paid you in are completely worthless, right?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: MrJokerRager
Back