Xbox Game Studios Stupidity Hate Thread Game Pass Edition

Unique hardware forces exclusives, sometimes the restrictions or quirks in the hardware make devs think on their feet and the industry almost always benefits from it.
"Unique hardware" like the x86 AMD SoC that comes in a white box or the same x86 AMD SoC that comes in the black box? Or maybe you mean the handheld with a Tegra SoC with ARM Cortex cores in it, the exact same chip from the Nvidia Shield and only marginally different than every smartphone in the world.

Yeah, we're definitely going to get some wild innovation out of that eclectic hardware, you unbelievable retard.
 
"Unique hardware" like the x86 AMD SoC that comes in a white box or the same x86 AMD SoC that comes in the black box? Or maybe you mean the handheld with a Tegra SoC with ARM Cortex cores in it, the exact same chip from the Nvidia Shield and only marginally different than every smartphone in the world.

Yeah, we're definitely going to get some wild innovation out of that eclectic hardware, you unbelievable retard.
That's exactly what i'm talking about you knuckle-dragging mong. Exclusives have died and we're left with generic slop-in-a-box to play generic niggercattle games.

Thanks for proving my point.

Nice axe btw.
 
Unique hardware forces exclusives, sometimes the restrictions or quirks in the hardware make devs think on their feet and the industry almost always benefits from it.
So you're a fanboy stuck in 1999, thanks for answering. All modern hardware runs on the same architecture, there are no quirks. The XSX and PS5 are literally the same machine minus a few minor changes.

Every single entertainment industry has been on the decline for two decades now and in your simplistic mind you think this is because of exclusives. You couldn't miss the mark harder.
 
All I know every Yakuza game used to run flawlessly on PS3 and PS4 until they started publishing on PC and Xbox as well. In the behind the scenes footage for Yakuza 8 they mentioned it's now quite a challenge publishing on 8 platforms simultaneously. Both Yakuza Isshin and Yakuza 8 had moments where they run like shit, in contrast to the quality they were putting out before.

Then we have Capcom who routinely screw up at least one platform on release. Most recently Dragons Dogma 2 has busted rendering on Xbox Series S & X, whereas they in RE4 Remake messed it up on PS5 instead. On last-gen both RE2 and RE3 were much worse on Xbox than PS4, for dumb reasons. They messed up the deadzones, implemented a 30fps cap on One X, and ran it at full 4k for no good reason. Also, in the past couple years nearly all multiplatform games have been terrible in some way on many platforms. One could justifiably just demand that games be delayed until they're done. But Square said both for FF16 and FF7 Rebirth that it was a relief targeting a single platform, because they cut loads of dev time not having to optimize for shit hardware. You can believe them or not. This is just the pattern I've noticed, that multiplatform simultaneous release usually means only one or two platforms are actually ready on release, and the rest need patches. This goes back all the way to PS2 times.
 
All I know every Yakuza game used to run flawlessly on PS3 and PS4 until they started publishing on PC and Xbox as well. In the behind the scenes footage for Yakuza 8 they mentioned it's now quite a challenge publishing on 8 platforms simultaneously. Both Yakuza Isshin and Yakuza 8 had moments where they run like shit, in contrast to the quality they were putting out before.

Then we have Capcom who routinely screw up at least one platform on release. Most recently Dragons Dogma 2 has busted rendering on Xbox Series S & X, whereas they in RE4 Remake messed it up on PS5 instead. On last-gen both RE2 and RE3 were much worse on Xbox than PS4, for dumb reasons. They messed up the deadzones, implemented a 30fps cap on One X, and ran it at full 4k for no good reason. Also, in the past couple years nearly all multiplatform games have been terrible in some way on many platforms. One could justifiably just demand that games be delayed until they're done. But Square said both for FF16 and FF7 Rebirth that it was a relief targeting a single platform, because they cut loads of dev time not having to optimize for shit hardware. You can believe them or not. This is just the pattern I've noticed, that multiplatform simultaneous release usually means only one or two platforms are actually ready on release, and the rest need patches. This goes back all the way to PS2 times.
That's a convenient excuse, but the same thing happens to exclusives. There have been endless exclusives that released in poor states. The problem is modern coders. The industry used to be made up of Carmacks and is now instead made up of Quinns.
 
So you're a fanboy stuck in 1999, thanks for answering.
Imagine thinking wanting to be stuck in the games industry 1999 is a bad thing :story:

All modern hardware runs on the same architecture, there are no quirks. The XSX and PS5 are literally the same machine minus a few minor changes.
I know this. We have ended up here because of the death of the exclusivity and the championing of backwards compatibility. Retards like you have caused the slop-in-a-box consoles.
Every single entertainment industry has been on the decline for two decades now and in your simplistic mind you think this is because of exclusives. You couldn't miss the mark harder.
I don't give a fuck about other entertainment industries, they have their own problems; content delivery, destruction of the family, over-reliance on the same actors etc. I only give a rats arse about gaming. I could sperg a timeline of how and when things went to shit. There's always a few years lag, but the starting point of the downturn was 2010/the release of the Kinect. (I'm not sure how long Kinect was in R+D).

Don't get me wrong, things were starting to look shaky a few years before 2010 but the good games were still coming and in large quantity. 2010 in the console space was when it was official that the industry was fucked.

That's a convenient excuse, but the same thing happens to exclusives. There have been endless exclusives that released in poor states. The problem is modern coders. The industry used to be made up of Carmacks and is now instead made up of Quinns.

I think we're both arguing the same point, but we see it from different reference points. You see the industry fucked, now, I saw it getting fucked 15~ years ago. Maybe you did too?

In all sincerity, tell me why you believe exclusives to be good. @TVB and @Ibanez RG 350EX please share your reasons.

I was laughing at how retarded you lot were for reacting to "kys,faggot" on a forum, i mean, come on.

If you want a discussion about it, i'll take the internet seriously for a change. You're good posters.
 
We have ended up here because of the death of the exclusivity and the championing of backwards compatibility. Retards like you have caused the slop-in-a-box consoles.
This is such a bewildering conflation of cause and effect.

All I know every Yakuza game used to run flawlessly on PS3 and PS4 until they started publishing on PC and Xbox as well.
They're all the same goddamn thing. This is not a problem of trying to target too many pieces of hardware because they're all functionally the same target hardware with the same codebase.

A game that was released on PS3 and PS4 would've involved far, far more re-work than releasing on XBox, PS5, and PC today.
 
Imagine thinking wanting to be stuck in the games industry 1999 is a bad thing :story:
If that's your takeaway then you aren't listening to what I'm saying.
I know this. We have ended up here because of the death of the exclusivity and the championing of backwards compatibility. Retards like you have caused the slop-in-a-box consoles.
You have it backwards. You think an uptick in ice-cream eating causes the weather to get hotter, instead of the other way around.
The Xbox One and PS4 were the same architecture too, they still had exclusives. And yet that entire generation was shit too.

If you want unique hardware, you're simply deluded. There were too many headaches involved with constantly changing hardware generation to generation. It makes zero finanical sense to design a modern console on unique architecture when Intel/AMD/Nvidia are already at the top of the game.
Games already have massive budgets without having to develop for your dream platform that uses esoteric chip #12512.
I don't give a fuck about other entertainment industries
That's fine, but you are attributing the decline of the game industry to nonsensical things while ignoring the problems that have effected every other industry. The game industry isn't unique and its decline has nothing to do with exclusives.
 
The Xbox One and PS4 were the same architecture too, they still had exclusives. And yet that entire generation was shit too.
To be fair, he's already pivoted to "this shit started to suck 15 years ago!"

It's almost like that was when these shitty schools started churning out game development degrees to anyone that could afford the tuition. Imagine saying "back when consoles were unique developers had to think on their feet!" and thinking any of these Full Sail graduates who only work on Unreal, Unity and Game Maker have any fucking clue how to think on their feet. If they did we wouldn't have to listen to faggots like Jason Schrier bitch and moan about crunch and burnout with 5+ year development cycles.

That's not even getting into all the minimum wage street shitters they're contracting work out to remotely over seas.

But yeah, it's totally the fact that the hardware is all the same.

But really, this is just another case of "back in my day", where everyone was too much of a dipshit kid who had their parents buy them everything to realize that 90% of gaming has always been slop in a box, and the other 10% was whatever was new and trendy at the time that everyone 10-20 years older than you were bitching about sucking ass.
 
A game that was released on PS3 and PS4 would've involved far, far more re-work than releasing on XBox, PS5, and PC today.
I get that they're all the same on paper, but in practice it never seems to turn out that way. I could buy the argument that programmer talent has taken a serious nosedive since the 2010s, probably because everyone is wasting their attention on social media or shitty mobile games, basically knocking 10+ IQ points off the entire human race. A couple mysterious examples of Series X & PS5 ports. Ghostwire Tokyo came to Xbox later than PS5 because of timed exclusivity. For some reason the Series X version runs worse and has worse graphics than the PS5. I guess it knocks against my argument of staggered releases usually being better. But also against the platforms being basically identical. Then we had games like Callisto Protocol where the Xbox version lacked ray tracing and had broken lighting & fog rendering in spots. I don't think this was ever fixed. One big difference between the platforms might be the APIs and development software. I don't know, I don't make games. I just look at comparisons whenever new games come out, and the differences are usually bigger than they should be. Especially since everyone including Gabe Newell complained endlessly about how much of a pain in the ass the PS3 was, and yet we're still seeing similar differences in releases now that platform holders have made things much easier. Did all the good programmers just get hired by Nvidia to make AI crap? I know the lead programmer for Evolution Software went there, ie the studio that made Driveclub, still one of the best looking car games ever.
 
If that's your takeaway then you aren't listening to what I'm saying.
Fair enough
You have it backwards. You think an uptick in ice-cream eating causes the weather to get hotter, instead of the other way around.
The Xbox One and PS4 were the same architecture too, they still had exclusives. And yet that entire generation was shit too.
The X1 and PS4 were shit, no argument from me. If MS hadn't taken the direction of corporate greed, then the X1 and PS4 would have had a chance of being different. They exclusives that they had were generally at the start of the gen, and then just rehashes over and over. Bloodborne, The Order, Killzone, Infamous to a name a few early-years ones, followed by sequels. MS followed the same pattern.

The PS4 started out promising; cheap, simple, relatively powerful. Then they shit the bed at the end

If you want unique hardware, you're simply deluded. There were too many headaches involved with constantly changing hardware generation to generation. It makes zero finanical sense to design a modern console on unique architecture when Intel/AMD/Nvidia are already at the top of the game.
Games already have massive budgets without having to develop for your dream platform that uses esoteric chip #12512.
I think I can see where we are talking past each other here. What I want is a stable, functioning industry. I know it won't happen while the bean counters run the show because, as you correctly say, there's no need to build your own gear when someone else is doing it better.
I suppose the best we could hope for is AMDvsNvidia+Intel vs whatever Apple is doing.

Diversifying the consoles hardware - and I use that word in the financial sense, not the faggoty one, would push us back towards better creativity. A sign of creativity is healthy, unique exclusives that show off what each team/hardware can do and what visions the leaders of the Big 3 had.

Modern day execs are cunts. J Allard and Peter Moore were great. Kaz was a nutcase but he was funny. Iwata was a cool dude.

That's fine, but you are attributing the decline of the game industry to nonsensical things while ignoring the problems that have effected every other industry. The game industry isn't unique and its decline has nothing to do with exclusives.
I disagree with this part. The gaming industry is unique in that it takes a little bit of every other industry and adds a twist. When second hand sales were being clamped down on it was compared to books. When Gamepass started it was compared to Netflix and streaming services and modern day AAA games are called movies. Yet, none of those industries can take from gaming and adapt it to their own.

The decline isn't limited to the lack of exclusives, but the lack of exclusives is the flag waving after the battle; it's a symbol that shows all is lost. In the same vein, the push for BC dealt a damaging blow to consoles. Why own the next gen when this gen will be supported for the next two years? If early adopters aren't getting unique exclusives, why buy the hardware?
The hardware doesn't sell so the industry doubles-down on BC, trying to capture more audience; HZD and GOW2 for example.
When they don't sell it's time to put the games on PC to capture more sales. Then the vicious cycle continues.

However, the chain can be broken and the slop removed is the PS5/XSX launched with no BC and only unique games exclusive to each platform.
There are other issues like target audiences and politics, but those poor pieces of shit would be kicked out of the industry at best and priced out at worst, if we didn't give scruffs the ability to buy a £100 PS4 to play £500 games.
 
It makes zero finanical sense to design a modern console on unique architecture when Intel/AMD/Nvidia are already at the top of the game.
It's not really feasible even if money were no object. It used to be that PC hardware was sub-optimal for gaming and some modestly-priced custom chips could punch way above their weight class in terms of pushing pixels and later polygons.

That's just not the case anymore. AMD, Intel, and Nvidia are at the cutting edge of what can be done with silicon and anything new (like AI compute in recent years) just gets incorporated onto either CPUs or GPUs. Outside of very niche use cases, custom hardware is dead.
 
Did all the good programmers just get hired by Nvidia to make AI crap?
Probably?

I've heard for years now that if you have any programming skill whatsoever, you don't make fucking games because it's such a bullshit career for programmers. And if you can code and really want to make games, you do it on your own time and for fun and hopefully turn it into something independently.

There's probably a reason that the "titans" of the industry are writer/director faggots like Hideo Kojima and Neil Druckmans now instead of programmers/designers like John Carmack and Will Wright.
 
To be fair, he's already pivoted to "this shit started to suck 15 years ago!"

It's almost like that was when these shitty schools started churning out game development degrees to anyone that could afford the tuition. Imagine saying "back when consoles were unique developers had to think on their feet!" and thinking any of these Full Sail graduates who only work on Unreal, Unity and Game Maker have any fucking clue how to think on their feet. If they did we wouldn't have to listen to faggots like Jason Schrier bitch and moan about crunch and burnout with 5+ year development cycles.

That's not even getting into all the minimum wage street shitters they're contracting work out to remotely over seas.
I agree with all of this. But i'm not arsed about the 'found out' part because we saw this coming a mile off. The 'fuck around' bit is when it went to shit.
But yeah, it's totally the fact that the hardware is all the same.
It is
But really, this is just another case of "back in my day", where everyone was too much of a dipshit kid who had their parents buy them everything to realize that 90% of gaming has always been slop in a box, and the other 10% was whatever was new and trendy at the time that everyone 10-20 years older than you were bitching about sucking ass.
Don't assume you fucking faggot. The difference is disney slop (Quackshot, MM:Castle of Illusion) was much better than the disney slop of today. This isn't rose tinted glasses.

The slop has gotten much, much worse and with fewer and fewer games coming out, the much worse slop is a higher % of games. Double-whammy, the street shitters who take 10 years to code a game that's broken on day fucking one, are making the 'good' games even worse.

No exclusives is a symptom. No unique hardware is a symptom. Street shitters, greed, politics, all symptoms. We don't get a healthy industry back by ignoring the symptoms like no exclusives.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell my why exclusives are bad.
 
The decline isn't limited to the lack of exclusives, but the lack of exclusives is the flag waving after the battle; it's a symbol that shows all is lost
I would reply to more of your points, but this quote the the crux of the issue. That is, the genie isn't going back into the bottle. The industry is shit now and having exclusives doesn't help anyone in 2024. Even if you (falsely) believed exclusives breed creativity, doing it is not going to fix the current state of the industry. So the only answer is; let them be free!
 
No unique hardware is a symptom.
No unique hardware is not a symptom of anything besides the fact that we're reaching the very limits of of physics and material science to make modern chips. Costs go up exponentially and it becomes exponentially more difficult to do anything radically new.

If you want unique hardware, you're going to pay out the ass for it and it's going to perform worse than off-the-shelf AMD or Nvidia parts. That has nothing to do with the gaming industry in particular.
 
So the only answer is; let them be free!
Pirate everything.
I'm assuming for your benefit.

If you were that old in 1999 then you're a fucking loser to still be wasting time being this assblasted over video games.
I'm not even mad. I said that 3 sperg posts up. I like the gaming industry, both playing the games and as a business. Which other industry (used to) troll as hard as the gaming one? Guys in suits on million/year salaries selling kids toys to adults while swinging lead on stage. It's fun and also retarded when said suits do retarded shit.

No unique hardware is not a symptom of anything besides the fact that we're reaching the very limits of of physics and material science to make modern chips. Costs go up exponentially and it becomes exponentially more difficult to do anything radically new.

If you want unique hardware, you're going to pay out the ass for it and it's going to perform worse than off-the-shelf AMD or Nvidia parts. That has nothing to do with the gaming industry in particular.

I don't think we should be pushing the max graphix out of every game. Give me a Crysis or Space Harrier every few years as a demo/land-mark of what can be done. For the rest? 720p or 1080p. Add physics and destruction if it's an FPS war game.

I think the hardware is way beyond what the software needs.
 
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