You're trying to argue with me like I'm a zealous Protestant taht relies on a lot of emotion for my faith rather than a Catholic sperg that read this shit for fun once upon a time.
In reality,
@MT Foxtrot exemplifies emotional zealotry. The thread isn't even about the fundamentals of Christianity per se, it's a position I've taken where I really can't see where the freedoms of America would be founded if not for God and Christian faith. MT has decided that this post was actually about my dream utopia when all I did was draw parallels between modern Leftism and religious indoctrination, how much more apt Christianity is for a healthy and free society, and explained that America is founded on God-given freedoms.
Without God, your freedom is not fundamental. You have allowed mortal men to determine whether you are free at birth instead of listening to nature or God, wherein it is implicit that you are free. Not nature nor God specifically tells us that we are free, but freedom is implicit in both concepts. Even from an atheistic perspective, you have free will because nothing can be predetermined.
So why do I think God is implicit in maintaining freedom as we know and understand it to be today? Without a higher power, there is no reason to maintain freedom, as it is not beneficial to anyone with power over people to do so. If you have a society full of "retards" that "need god to explain the world" and a leader who defies the word of God because he thinks he is above it, how do you think it will go? We already know how the inverse plays out. We're living in it.
In complete nature, we are only shackled by that which is natural, and our need to survive. This is the natural man.
1 Corinthians 2:14
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.
Scripture consistently implies that man is free to do as he chooses through repeated reminders of temptation, lust, and the virtue of following the Lord instead of indulging temptation.
Proverbs 16:9
A man’s heart deviseth his way: but the LORD directeth his steps.
Colossians 2:8
Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
I don't think you understand the founding fathers' views on religion at all. A lot of them came from a school of thought on belief called "deism." Like look at Thomas Jefferson's retarded edited version of the Bible for a good example of that. He literally took out all the supernatual elements of it. Some of them were athiest tier in their beliefs despite the aesthetic sugar coating of religous type verbiage like the examples you point out, but the main point is that they thought government shouldn't restrict belief or enforce a church like had been the case in Europe.
You're right, I have misunderstood some things. It's quite explicit that the founding fathers did not want enforcement of any doctrine (other than the doctrine of freedom), but that's not what I've misinterpreted. I suppose the relationship between Deism, Rationalism, and Fundamentalism is what I've confused here.
I understand what you mean about the atheistic verbiage because the Constitution doesn't even imply God, but the verbiage of the Constitution of each state can be quite explicit about God. Despite the very carefully worded documents of the founding fathers and the claims of reason and Deism, we can see that society of the time and many influential members of early America and the constitution were very much
not Deist and believed God did give them the right and the ability to be there and recognized the importance of worshipping God. Not just any God, but God.
We, therefore, the people of Massachusetts, acknowledging, with grateful hearts, the goodness of the great Legislator of the universe, in affording us, in the course of His providence, an opportunity, deliberately and peaceably, without fraud, violence or surprise, of entering into an original, explicit, and solemn compact with each other; and of forming a new constitution of civil government, for ourselves and posterity; and devoutly imploring His direction in so interesting a design, do agree upon, ordain and establish the following Declaration of Rights, and Frame of Government, as the Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
Delaware:
Freedom of religion.
Section 1. Although it is the duty of all persons frequently to assemble together for the public worship of Almighty God; and piety and morality, on which the prosperity of communities depends, are hereby promoted; yet no person shall or ought to be compelled to attend any religious worship, to contribute to the erection or support of any place of worship, or to the maintenance of any ministry, against his or her own free will and consent; and no power shall or ought to be vested in or assumed by any magistrate that shall in any case interfere with, or in any manner control the rights of conscience, in the free exercise of religious worship, nor a preference given by law to any religious societies, denominations, or modes of worship.
The People of Connecticut acknowledging with gratitude, the good providence of God, in having permitted them to enjoy a free government; do, in order more effectually to define, secure, and perpetuate the liberties, rights and privileges which they have derived from their ancestors; hereby, after a careful consideration and revision, ordain and establish the following constitution and form of civil government.
