God is a requirement for a free world - You need Jesus.

MT Foxtrot said:
Then it's not much good as a litmus test.
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And yet the dominant religion in our society today (secular progressivism) easily forces mass compliance despite the fact that at least half the population, and probably considerably more, doesn't sincerely believe in it. Odd how that works.

MT Foxtrot said:
The Bible is against that. It has no respect for those who cry "Lord! Lord!" but have no love in their hears. No respect for laws like that especially.
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Uhh, yeah. What it recommends is that you actually believe rather than faking it.

MT Foxtrot said:
So why emulate that?
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Because there is no escaping it, as I explained in my original post. It's not a question of if there will be values that you must conform to, but rather a question of what those values will be. And if there are values that you must conform to, they should be recognized formally rather than hiding behind lies and denying what they are.

MT Foxtrot said:
So why are so many rural areas miserable and in decline despite the prevalence of fundamentalist Christianity there?
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"Christianity = retarded hicks" meme. Nice strawman. I can just as easily ask you why the liberal cities are shitholes that everyone with money is fleeing from.
 
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mrolonzo said:
If you were really free you could kill yourself or starve yourself quite easily.
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I could kill myself relatively easily, yes. Starving might involve a little more forethought but I'm sure I could strand myself somewhere with no food and no way to procure any.

What's your point?

Spergs think that being bound by the laws of nature means they're not truly free and they don't see that they're really just highlighting their own inability to cope with reality.
 
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Exigent Circumcisions said:
I could kill myself relatively easily, yes. Starving might involve a little more forethought but I'm sure I could strand myself somewhere with no food and no way to procure any.

What's your point?

Spergs think that being bound by the laws of nature means they're not truly free and they don't see that they're really just highlighting their own inability to cope with reality.
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What do think of the notion that when you say I could kill myself quite easily, I then say that's complete rubbish and you could not kill yourself quite easily?

Does that even register?

As for bound by laws of nature, yes you're right. However gravity is one thing, permanent, not changing, ever. Literally a feature of space / time. Overriding your basic instinct to eat and breathe is possible, but its unlikely you could do it easily. However, in some circumstances you certainly could. Now, in that sense, is that a tight bind on you? I say, yes. Because when you're free of the need to live there is a whole lot of cool stuff you could do before you go.
 
So when will you address the fundamental principle of what I'm saying instead of attacking the substance for being disagreeable to you, @MT Foxtrot? You're arguing with people who are often well-entrenched in their beliefs and station in life and have put a lot of thought into it. Parroting Democratic propaganda about how religion = retards isn't really doing anything to expand on the issue.

mrolonzo said:
What do think of the notion that when you say I could kill myself quite easily, I then say that's complete rubbish and you could not kill yourself quite easily?

Does that even register?

As for bound by laws of nature, yes you're right. However gravity is one thing, permanent, not changing, ever. Literally a feature of space / time. Overriding your basic instinct to eat and breathe is possible, but its unlikely you could do it easily. However, in some circumstances you certainly could. Now, in that sense, is that a tight bind on you? If say, yes. Because when you're free of the need to live there is a whole lot of cool stuff you could do before you go.
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Nigger the thread is about politicians recognizing the natural bounds of human freedom and will, not discussing whether instincts preclude free-will. You can eat or you can not eat. The government's job is to recognize that is between you, yourself, and God and not interfere.
 
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Osmosis Jones said:
I used to think the same way, but it's not about an afterlife. Following religion for the simple hope that you will go somewhere else later is not pious at all. I would appreciate if you read the OP because you're really far off base of what I'm talking about.
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Like, 3 people i've met in my life which have preached almost the same idea?
I don't like to being reminder about if i don't follow some religion i'm going to hell when the same catholic doctrine says about doing the greater good without believing in God gives you a chance to met heaven or whatever they believe.
Imagine passing from thinking about don't care about death to believing in some mystic entity who gonna save us all someday. Lol.
 
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Prophetic Spirit said:
Like, 3 people i've met in my life which have preached almost the same idea?
I don't like to being reminder about if i don't follow some religion i'm going to hell when the same catholic doctrine says about doing the greater good without believing in God gives you a chance to met heaven or whatever they believe.
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Anecdotal experiences are a poor reflection of reality. I've had many missionaries and regular people alike discuss God with me, and none have threatened that I will go to hell. The worst I've ever gotten is complete bafflement that I get through my day without keeping Jesus in my heart.
 
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Prophetic Spirit said:
Like, 3 people i've met in my life which have preached almost the same idea?
I don't like to being reminder about if i don't follow some religion i'm going to hell when the same catholic doctrine says about doing the greater good without believing in God gives you a chance to met heaven or whatever they believe.
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Take your own advice and be aware of your own hubris.
 
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Osmosis Jones said:
So when will you address the fundamental principle of what I'm saying instead of attacking the substance for being disagreeable to you, @MT Foxtrot? You're arguing with people who are often well-entrenched in their beliefs and station in life and have put a lot of thought into it. Parroting Democratic propaganda about how religion = retards isn't really doing anything to expand on the issue.


Nigger the thread is about politicians recognizing the natural bounds of human freedom and will, not discussing whether instincts preclude free-will. You can eat or you can not eat. The government's job is to recognize that is between you, yourself, and God and not interfere.
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Thank you for making that clear. It's really hard to sit through reading yet another screed about the government and freedom from some deluded American. But you've summed it up nicely.
 
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mrolonzo said:
What do think of the notion that when you say I could kill myself quite easily, I then say that's complete rubbish and you could not kill yourself quite easily?
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If I had the will to do so, it would be a relatively simple task.
mrolonzo said:
As for bound by laws of nature, yes you're right. However gravity is one thing, permanent, not changing, ever. Literally a feature of space / time. Overriding your basic instinct to eat and breathe is possible, but its unlikely you could do it easily. However, in some circumstances you certainly could. Now, in that sense, is that a tight bind on you? If say, yes. Because when you're free of the need to live there is a whole lot of cool stuff you could do before you go.
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This is really just word salad.

I've got a question: if you don't have free will, why do you bother saying anything? It's all just predetermined by your neurochemistry and life experiences. I can dismiss what you say quite easily because you've claimed to be no better than a chatbot.
 
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Exigent Circumcisions said:
If I had the will to do so, it would be a relatively simple task.

This is really just word salad.

I've got a question: if you don't have free will, why do you bother saying anything? It's all just predetermined by your neurochemistry and life experiences. I can dismiss what you say quite easily because you've claimed to be no better than a chatbot.
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Good points. Well presented thank you.
 
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Let me tell you about Alcoholics Anonymous, OP (fyi I've never been a participant nor am I a huge fan, but I'm well familiar with it):

Here are the 12 steps of alcoholics anonymous. Make note of #s 2 and 3:
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There are people who say "So I have to be a Christian for the 12 steps to work?", and the answer is not really. Some people might, but it isn't necessary.

There is a reason that they say "God as we understood Him" and "A power great than ourselves".
There is no necessity to believe that "God" is the judeo-christian version of god, it literally just has to be a power one is able to ideologically relinquish control to. I've heard of people who see the abstract idea of nature as their god, or who see something bizarre like gravity or the ocean, it doesn't fucking matter, it just has to be a power greater than one's self. The whole thing instills humility and provides community.

The issue I have with it (beyond the cult-like mentality) is you'd have to be genuinely retarded to think that you ever had that much logical control to begin with. Fuck, even a junkie has to; there can only be so many times you blatantly fail to follow through on promises you make to yourself and others before there is no other option than to acknowledge, no, I'm not going to shoot up now then quit next week, I'm going to go shoot up now then when next week comes I'm going to do some shady bullshit then shoot up then, just like I've always done, so why even bother lying to myself? Just go get your drugs like you know you're going to anyways and stop lying to yourself.


Just like with AA, god is nothing but a cheap way for the mentally retarded to envision the concept of nature. The sun rises every day? If you're dealing with a retard, it's much, much easier to tell them "God does it, and he loves you so he'll make sure nothing bad happens".

Now you know it's because the earth itself rotates, and you probably also know even the sun rotates around a universal center, and are familiar with the concept of energy and gravity and warping of space-time, that as we're sitting here we're hurtling through space at ~67,000 miles an hour relative to the universal center, and also that might seem scary until you accept that if we haven't gotten sniped out of space by a pulsar or gone hurtling off into the void after billions of years, what's the chance we will now? Virtually non-existent. It isn't going to happen.
Worry about more immediate issues that are within your control, and have the humility to accept when they aren't under your control: "God grant me the humility to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference"


So sure, "god" is a requirement I guess, people destroy themselves when they adopt a trans-humanist style of thinking, but you aren't advocating for god, you're advocating for some arbitrary autistic cherry-picked version of god that's appealing to dipshits who can't orient themselves except by doing the opposite of whatever the people they don't like are doing, even though it usually winds up being exactly what the people they don't like are doing, but with some labels switched around.

TL;DR: you're a fucking retard, quit the embarrassing trad-larp.
 
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