The Abortion Debate Containment Thread - Put abortion sperging here.

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gang weeder said:
The whole "first trimester" viewpoint is driven by people like our friend Kernel32 Sanders who simply don't want to pick a side, because there are uncomfortable implications on both ends of the issue. They don't want to have to answer to leftists who will ask them "so you're okay with forcing a rape victim to give birth to the rapist's child????" As with any other cultural issue, these people will lose out to the activists who actually care about the topic, even if they are the majority of the population.
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People aren't logical and this polling has been steady within a few points for YEARS.
 
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Puff said:
People aren't logical and this polling has been steady within a few points for YEARS.
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And the majority of the population does not support extreme troonery and never has, yet that is shoved down your throat more or less at gunpoint. How is that possible? What about muh polling and muh public opinion? Why can't we keep the freaks in the closet if public opinion polling is really what dictates political outcomes?
 
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If there is one thing that I don't care for it's posts like this:
updoot farmer said:
One of the few things I am fine with the overton shifting on, but I want it renamed "babykilling" to clarify exactly what it is. Here's a fun fact. Regardless of how you spin it, if you aren't a fucked up individual, you will realize that what you did was abhorrent from a moral perspective. Doesn't matter how good the initial reasoning was. I've had to be therapist for a good few friends that got abortions (very early first trimester, pill through PP, etc) that were emotional wrecks for years afterwards, and their support network was fucking shiiiiiit because of the perception that abortion is a brave & stunning thing to do.

Fuck the abortion propagandists' they are actively against womens' mental health.
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You aren't going to convince any of the pro-choice folks with all this morality hubbabaloo because they've made it pretty clear, for early-term abortions, that fetuses are nothing more than a clump of cells that lack the ability to think and feel like we do and the anecdotal evidence is just that: anecdotal.
 
Nauseated Courgi said:
If there is one thing that I don't care for it's posts like this:


You aren't going to convince any of the pro-choice folks with all this morality hubbabaloo because they've made it pretty clear, for early-term abortions, that fetuses are nothing more than a clump of cells that lack the ability to think and feel like we do and the anecdotal evidence is just that: anecdotal.
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We aren't going to convince anyone of anything ITT. It's literally the most hardcore on both sides of the issue screaming at each other for fun or something.
 
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Nauseated Courgi said:
If there is one thing that I don't care for it's posts like this:


You aren't going to convince any of the pro-choice folks with all this morality hubbabaloo because they've made it pretty clear, for early-term abortions, that fetuses are nothing more than a clump of cells that lack the ability to think and feel like we do and the anecdotal evidence is just that: anecdotal.
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Nothing will convince them anyways, by and large. Politics is much more about power than persuasion. Very few if any "pro-choice folks" can be convinced to change their stance by any means, ever. However, nearly all of them can be cowed into silence and compliance if they get "baby killer" screamed at them loud and long enough.

Puff said:
We aren't going to convince anyone of anything ITT. It's literally the most hardcore on both sides of the issue screaming at each other for fun or something.
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Pretty much. I would be surprised if you could find one single person anywhere in this thread over its entire history who actually changed their stance from pro-babymurder to anti-babymurder as a result of reading/posting in it. When people are open to persuasion, it's typically when they do not know or care very much about an issue, because they have little emotional investment in it then. The more invested they become, the more impossible it is to change their mind. Anyone bothering to post in this thread is probably well above that threshold where their mind is never changing.
 
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gang weeder said:
Nothing will convince them anyways, by and large. Politics is much more about power than persuasion. Very few if any "pro-choice folks" can be convinced to change their stance by any means, ever. However, nearly all of them can be cowed into silence and compliance if they get "baby killer" screamed at them loud and long enough.
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Gotta do that IRL. Internet won't work. Get to it.
 
gang weeder said:
No, we can't, because this is an actual black or white issue. Some issues lend themselves to being wishy-washy and flip-floppy and fence-sitting, like tax policy. Murdering babies is not one of those issues. If you recognize "that is a human in there after all," when would it ever be a "necessary evil" to murder them, outside of ectopic pregnancy and the like? On the other hand, if it's *not* a human in there, then what would be wrong with using abortion as birth control?
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This quite literally not a black or white issue. At it's core it's a question of what gives you a right to life and their are dozens of positions on that from self sustainability, being human, heartbeat, self awareness, and so forth.
gang weeder said:
Either it's a baby or it isn't. I've yet to see anyone try and seriously argue for some kind of "half-person" status, although that is the implied belief of people like yourself who don't want to have to pick a side.
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It's literally not a baby for parts of the process. It goes from human gamete to human zygote to human fetus to human baby. There's not two definitive sides to this issue regardless of how strongly you feel about it. People are going to draw the line in different spots and most will do so in the middle not because of fence sitting, but because most people genuinely don't give a shit about zygotes and early fetuses.
 
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Kermit Jizz said:
This quite literally not a black or white issue. At it's core it's a question of what gives you a right to life and their are dozens of positions on that from self sustainability, being human, heartbeat, self awareness, and so forth.
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There are only two positions that matter in the debate. In theory, you could come up with lots of wacky shit that no one cares about, I guess. In reality, the two positions that matter are either it's a baby, or it isn't. Any other position is irrelevant and likely to be nonsensical in its reasoning, and usually boils down to mental gymnastic variations on why it isn't a baby, i.e. "when it has a heartbeat, when it is conscious," etc. All of that crap comes across to me on the other side of the issue as the same position, namely the position that it isn't a baby.

Kermit Jizz said:
It's literally not a baby for parts of the process. It goes from human gamete to human zygote to human fetus to human baby. There's not two definitive sides to this issue regardless of how strongly you feel about it. People are going to draw the line in different spots and most will do so in the middle not because of fence sitting, but because most people genuinely don't give a shit about zygotes and early fetuses.
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This is demonstrably false or else we wouldn't be sitting here arguing about it. And I mean that not just in the sense of, us two retards on the Internet, but also in the sense of, a big public national debate over the issue due to Roe v Wade and yadda yadda. I can guarantee you that many pro-life people, probably the majority if I had to guess, believe that life begins at conception. Certainly every other pro life person I've spoken to does. People who do not believe life begins at conception do not describe themselves as pro-life in my experience. I have not met a single person who thinks that killing a 10 week old fetus is okay yet still describes themselves as "pro-life."

The two definitive sides are pretty much that: Either life begins at conception, or abortion is okay. Now, there might be some kind of internal debate on "your" side where you guys are trying to hash out exactly when it's okay to kill the baby, if it should be 15 weeks, or 25 weeks, or whatever. I suppose I wouldn't know, but I certainly don't seem to ever see that argued about. In this thread for example, it seems that little if any attention has been given to that question between different "pro choicers," whereas nearly all of the thread's attention is devoted to people who do not believe life begins at conception arguing with people like me who believe that it does.

And this mirrors my observation of the issue in society more broadly. This is why the left is able to get away with pushing for abortion until point of birth even though most of their own voters don't agree with that--because all of those people are forced to choose between that or people like me on the other side who want to ban it completely from point of conception. So, someone who still wants abortion to be available in the first trimester or something might decide that the left is the lesser of two evils there, creating the current all-or-nothing dichotomy in policy.
 
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Kermit Jizz said:
People are going to draw the line in different spots and most will do so in the middle not because of fence sitting, but because most people genuinely don't give a shit about zygotes and early fetuses.
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I wouldn't say I'm someone that "doesn't give a shit about zygotes and early fetuses" as you may imply. And to be frank, we need to have a conversation about the gravity about creating unique life and try and understand why wanton casual sex really is not great for our wellbeing and society, especially when proper precautions are not made (i.e. no birth control or contraceptives).

My thought was from the point of "will the unborn human child feel pain" when an abortion happens, hence up to first trimester where that is not likely to occur. That doesn't make this life "less" human in my eyes though. But I'm coming from a perspective of harm reduction strategies wherever possible... like drug addicts that go to treatment facilities rather than being thrown in jail.

@gang weeder I actually respect someone who is clear and not wishy washy on the subject, and you're free to call me out on my views. Personally, no abortions no exceptions is not practical in our current society until we can change the message and teach people respect for sex and relationships in my mind. Otherwise, how can they ever respect their potential offspring?

Perhaps we should never have abandoned God in society.
 
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Puff said:
We aren't going to convince anyone of anything ITT. It's literally the most hardcore on both sides of the issue screaming at each other for fun or something.
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Yeah, I figured that most of people that post in this thread aren't interested in swaying the other side. I just wanted to throw that post out there before I go back to spectating.
 
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Kernel32 Sanders said:
@gang weeder I actually respect someone who is clear and not wishy washy on the subject, and you're free to call me out on my views. Personally, no abortions no exceptions is not practical in our current society until we can change the message and teach people respect for sex and relationships in my mind. Otherwise, how can they ever respect their potential offspring?
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"It's not practical" =/= "it's what's right." This is pretty much an admission that abortion is wrong and should be banned--you know what the correct position is, you just don't want to commit to it yet. I can sympathize with that, at least a lot more than I can with people who are eager about abortion and think it's great and all the rest. Ultimately, what is right will, or at least should, take precedence over what is "practical." I am quite sure that any southerner in the 1850s would have told you that ending slavery was just "not practical in our current society."

Kernel32 Sanders said:
Perhaps we should never have abandoned God in society.
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You won't be surprised to hear that I agree.

Kernel32 Sanders said:
My thought was from the point of "will the unborn human child feel pain" when an abortion happens, hence up to first trimester where that is not likely to occur. That doesn't make this life "less" human in my eyes though. But I'm coming from a perspective of harm reduction strategies wherever possible... like drug addicts that go to treatment facilities rather than being thrown in jail.
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Feeling pain is clearly not the deciding factor in causing harm. After all, if I come up behind you with a gun and headshot you while you are completely unaware, i.e. you have no idea it's coming, then I have caused you no pain. You simply stop existing, painlessly. And yet we all recognize that this would still be murder.
 
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updoot farmer said:
I've had to be therapist for a good few friends that got abortions (very early first trimester, pill through PP, etc) that were emotional wrecks for years afterwards,
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Over 95% of women who abort have no regrets and no mental health issues after. Are you seriously trying to convince us that every single one of your "friends" just happen to fall into that less than five percent? And that your "friends" confided in some creepy guy instead of their female friends, mothers, partners, etc.? You really expect us to believe you? This isn't a fanfiction site.
 
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Muh Vagina said:
Over 95% of women who abort have no regrets and no mental health issues after. Are you seriously trying to convince us that every single one of your "friends" just happen to fall into that less than five percent? And that your "friends" confided in some creepy guy instead of their female friends, mothers, partners, etc.? You really expect us to believe you? This isn't a fanfiction site.
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So what, people in general don't regret decisions they themselves made. That's just how the human brain works.
 
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Hotter Shoeonhead. said:
This country is doomed, laws are getting passed in states banning abortion even for child rape victims.
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Weak bait. Do better.

Wood said:
So what, people in general don't regret decisions they themselves made. That's just how the human brain works.
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Stoody shows 95% of serial killers don't regret it. Time to legalize murder lads. Never mind the hilarious amount of social desirability bias that would make it impossible to ever get an accurate stat on something like this. If you respond "yes I regret it" you're admitting that you feel you murdered your own baby. No one is going to give that response lol. If anything you could argue it's a big condemnation of the practice that even 5% of people would.
 
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