Better Call Saul

[UnKillFill]

I realize that having Giancarlo Esposito would probably need to be a major part of the show by necessity, but the guy who they got to play young Edgar on The Boys could probably do a decent job as young Gus for flashbacks or whatever.

 

[BetterFuckChuck]

Why would the world hate him when people watch movies like Wolf of Wall Street glorifying thieves? Or watch mafia shows and podcasts from mafia members? And read books like Goodfellas and watch the movies? There are huge swaths of society that are into criminals from a voyeuristic perspective. He never murdered or raped anyone. He just did paperwork for Walter White, the most infamous criminal in modern America. His story would be fascinating. And without Walt and Jesse there, he would make up anything he wanted. He could make himself out to be a hero.

Saul is an interesting person. An interesting character until the horridly written finale. Someone like him would thrive in the spotlight. Books. Movies. Probably the talk show circuit. He would be a world class personality. The DEA or CIA would use him to speak to agents as well. His life would never be dull on the outside.

"Why would people hate real criminals when people watch fictional criminals" I don't know how to react to that. Also your examples of criminals that are popular, I can give Larry Lawton is an example. Larry Lawton got caught, did the time and then became an informant. He didnt negotiate a cowardly plea deal after being an accessory to the murder of DEA agents, a guy who cosed up to nazis and poisoning a child

No. He is freer.....being actually free. Not being in prison. You cannot excuse the mediocre writing unless you have Vince Gilligan worship on your mind. No one is free mentally in a supermax prison that has record suicides. You are just a simpleton who cannot bring himself to critique his heroes. Like Star Wars fans that like anything because it is Star Wars not because it is quality art. He literally throws away freedom for life in jail for Kim.

"He is freer being actually free" Ah because his job in cinnabon was so rewarding?
Also I dont get the obsession you have with Vince Gilligan. Vince didnt write Saul Gone, he didn't create Saul Goodman, he didnt even write Breaking Bad. He's George Lucas, a talented director and idea guy who got a good team together to write this show. I don't get your point at all. Peter Gould is the genius being Better Call Saul and he's the guy who wrote this episode
He literally throws away freedom in order to be worshipped and get jerked off by Kim's feet. I don't see how this is a bum deal at all, if anything he got off too easy, Kim is the love of his life and the entire reason he became Saul Goodman I think between screwing over a woman he's obsessed with that he created an entire persona as a cope for or screwing up the deal so he can maybe get out early anyway with Kim by his side I think yea he'd choose that. Well, Jimmy would choose that, and that's the point of the final arc of the series. It's an identity crisis, Gene vs. Jimmy vs. Saul. Saul kills Gene in the prison and Jimmy kills Saul in the courtroom. I have my problems with it but still, you're retarded

The ending of BCS was not the intellectual nor artistic level of the previous seasons. The decline of the show was sharp and rapid. And it never recovered. This ending hurts the show to the point where BCS probably should not even be looked at as a good show. It is on Lost or Game of Thrones level. Are people actually going to watch all of BB, El Camino, then BCS and actually want the last four hours of the BB universe to be Gene's gray and white adventure into slavish adoration for Kim? This is how the entire BB universe ends?

Oh please. Look at my examples up here. Normies are eating this up. The episode has been getting 100 percent scores from MSM. People absolutely adore Kim and she's a big draw for the show now, she got women into watching this universe and even people who hate women are like "Kim is my wholesome girlboss I want to do scams with". Of course people will rewatch this universe even with this, and even if they wouldn't they have Fun and Games. Just like how people who dont like Felina always consider either Ozymandias or Face Off the real finale

It is even worse than that. Because he DID already weasel himself out of trouble. He had the seven years in written form from the DEA. It was over. He won. Golf and ice cream. He then uncharacteristically tanks his entire legal defense to the point where he gets the 30 year initial sentence thrown away and gets over ten times as many years from what he was going to get. He goes from 30, to 7, to 86 years. In a fit of stupidity to please a woman who has not loved him and is long gone from his life. A woman that pushed him to be in the cartel life and harass Howard and will get no jail time for her crimes. A woman that concealed Lalo's surviving from him and endangered his life so she could laugh at Howard's being drugged by them.

I mean he's done this kind of shit before. He's tanked opportunities for himself especially in season one in order to do the "right thing", like the Kettleman money for example. This is supposed to be Jimmy coming back, as corny as it is.
Kim didnt encourage him to go into cartel stuff at all. Also Jimmy was throwing bowling balls into Howard's car way before Kimmy did anything. HE corrupted HER, not the other way round

Are you really going to watch BCS again.....and watch the Kim and Howard scenes....knowing how it all ends? I think it ruins the show for me. I cannot how anyone but a Vince Gilligan sycophant can rewatch this dumpster fire of a show now.

Dude, you've done nothing but complain about the show. Are you really trying to retroactively turn all your complaining for this whole season into just the finale? Howard's end (haha) was great, it tied into the BrBa story super well. I think on rewatch even with pacing issues with season six I was super satisfied with everything up to Fun and Games. Then I can maybe watch the Gene stuff once or twice over, see if I like it or not and also because I still enjoy Nippy, Breaking Bad and Waterworks as standalone episodes. Saul Gone is a little different because I find it okay as an episode but super underwhelming as a finale and if that doesnt change I'd have to take the whole Gene storyline off. Maybe watch Nippy between Seasons 5 & 6 because I still enjoy that as a potential closer on the cold open storylines

 

[ln18]

My thought is, Jimmy's core vulnerability, which goes unsatisfied to his grave, was needing Chuck's approval. That same facet of him chose seeking Kim's approval in the end, as a compromise, even against what could rationally be considered his best interest. It's 100% Jimmy for him to be left after skating on a deal he didn't deserve with nothing and no one haunted by not making the choice that he made under Kim's gaze and wishing he had a time machine.

 

[George Floyd Sneed]

Gus fled chile in the 80's, Pinochet's regime didn't collapse until '90. The timeline doesn't line up for Gus to be a general or inner party member

In 1986, there was an attempted assassination of Pinochet by a violent far left organization: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attempted_assassination_of_Augusto_Pinochet

My assumption is that Gus was part of that group and fled before he got arrested. This political group did whatever to raise funds and arm themselves, likely via drug and weapon networks, which explains why Don Eladio mentioned Gus’s connections.

 

[IceCreamForCrow]

No. He is freer.....being actually free. Not being in prison.

Let's be honest Jimmy was bound to end up in jail eventually because he can't control himself. Even if he took the deal it wouldn't have mattered in the long run.

Now that he's there he doesn't have to keep looking over his back or even stop running scams (what are they gonna do? Give him more years?) The entire prison loves him which is the complete opposite of his life on the outside. He's pretty much free to do and act as he pleases without any consequences.

9 months after his sentence he probably figured out a scam to get the entire prison Pizza once a week, movie nights, bottles of liquor, some girls maybe. Probably somehow got that stupid massager thing for his back too.

 

[BetterFuckChuck]

AMC's next series should be Stick with CWC. Replace Jimmy with Chris Chan, Kim with Barb, Gene with transitioning and throwing away a plea deal for love with throwing it away because you couldn't get toys and think you're Jesus

 

[AnOminous]

He never murdered or raped anyone. He just did paperwork for Walter White, the most infamous criminal in modern America.

Oh you mean paperwork like finding him a guy to help him become a fugitive from justice? That's a crime just by itself. Like money laundering? Pretty sure that's illegal too.

 

[xXRonPaul_42020Xx]

All it would have taken to save the ending would have been to make it clear that Sauls confession would protect Kim from the civil lawsuit. If he actually did weasel out of it and threw it away to protect Kim that would have been good. Instead he does it for no practical reason and just comes accross as a massive simp. Going to jail for life to impress your ex-wife isnt romantic or dramatic its just sad.

 

[ln18]

Instead he does it for no practical reason and just comes accross as a massive simp.

Yes. That's the whole show. Has been the whole show. Jimmy's issues with needing approval from others, primarily Chuck, secondarily Kim. His whole being is driven by this need, and he's done a ton of irrational things because of it.

 

[MrGodSlave]

Satisfied with the ending, however there is something that irked me back with Tuco at the beginning, and happens 4 times in the finale.

Jimmy/Saul flapping those magical gums to get exactly what he wants. I'm aware it's a fundamental character trait, the initial hook of him in BB, the driving force of the show. By the end the formula felt very stale and like Jimmy at this point has maxed out his Charisma and Luck, full of charm amulets and love potions, just owning the empty headed lawyer (Who knows from many experiences how slimy and underhanded the guy calling him is), room of DEA prosecutors, the air marshal who is reminded by the guy he's transporting to listen in for damaging info, the Judge who seemingly has no control of her own courtroom once Silvertongue McGill arrives

Also it is nitpicky, but that prison bus scene was written by retards. All these other inmates, with their own lives and struggles, sitting in reflective silence, only to merrily join in on a chant for some lawyer. "Nah you don't understand he is a legend in there so they'd totally behave like mindless drones and chant his name in unison instead of immediately asking stupid questions". How'd he make dat Meff Blue nigga?

So yeah satisfied, good show would recommend, no Varvo Brince.

 

[DogEatDogFood]

I fear that Vince's crew is going to pussy away and make Kim defeat Cheryl in the lawsuit in a future spin-off. Tbh Vince already made clear that he wanted Jesse to be happy in Alaska after BB ended. Gould in interviews implies that "yeah, she is fucked, man: she can't win that" because the odds are stacked against her.

Fraud, emotional damages, defamation, wrongful death. Cheryl can just pick and choose to make Kim sell her bathwater to her simps for the rest of her life. What the fuck she is going to do? Say that she didn't mean anything that she said in the confession? What jury/judge is going to have mercy on a person that was working with Saul Goodman, the guy that poisons little kids and was complicit in mass murder?

If they handwave all of this in a spin-off because the public is a bunch of simps, I'm going to lose respect for the BCS crew.

 

[George Floyd Sneed]

The start of Breaking Bad to the end of Better Call Saul is 14 years. It would smack of desperation if there was another spinoff. They’d be getting into that shitty era in the 1970s and 1980s where there were a bunch of spinoffs of spinoffs primarily created by Norman Lear.

What made Better Call Saul work was the strength of Jimmy’s character and the acting chops and charisma of Bob Odenkirk to pull it off. The actors are getting too old, too many characters have died or are in positions where a spinoff doesn’t work. But AMC might be desperate enough to try something or maybe some video shorts of some minor characters. I think any other spinoff would fail, lasting a few episodes at most.

Although if we’re just BSing potential spinoff ideas, a Hank Schrader-Steve Gomez DEA buddy cop series could be one. Then you’d also have various side characters like Bill Oakley, Marie Schrader, etc. that would have very little relevance to the main BB+BCS plot line.

Yes. That's the whole show. Has been the whole show. Jimmy's issues with needing approval from others, primarily Chuck, secondarily Kim. His whole being is driven by this need, and he's done a ton of irrational things because of it.

Only up to the moment where it significantly inconveniences him, at which point is becomes all about himself. Him voluntarily screwing up a seven year sentence is a total contradiction of his character. I think the only reason why that happened was to head off any speculation about what Jimmy would do once out of prison. Now that he’s going to rot, it was a lazy way to tie up a loose end.

 

[purpleflurp]

But AMC might be desperate enough to try something or maybe some video shorts of some minor characters. I think any other spinoff would fail, lasting a few episodes at most.

AMC's already got their hands full with 4 upcoming Walking Dead spinoffs, I wouldn't expect any more content from the BrBa/BCS universe.

 

[Seventh Star]

If you're into whotubers Schaffrilas

No thanks. 1 hour of redditsperging is exactly 1 hour too much of it.

I think the only reason why that happened was to head off any speculation about what Jimmy would do once out of prison. Now that he’s going to rot, it was a lazy way to tie up a loose end.

There's only two reasons for it:
1) Writer's had to crunch shit out in case Bob dies. Guy is 60, I can hardly blame them for feeling pressured by that.
2) Muh subverting expectations.
The writing process for BrBa and BCS from what I've heard involves a lot of tossing around ideas between the writers. And if you think about it, there's really just two ways to get a boring ending through. Either the process had to truncated, or it actually did pass through, in which case they decided the best way to break anyone's expectations was to do this.

On another note, I can imagine this ending working in concept, Jimmy going to prison for life and all. It was executed very poorly though, and to me it wasn't as emotionally captivating as it could have been. I mean, I think they did his character dirty and inconsistent later on, so it really lessens the impact of his story being effectively over.

If they really wanted to make it a huge thing, he should've reconsidered after Jeff's buddy backs down, never gone to his home, and talked to Kim more. And judging by Gene's reactions in the bar with cancer guy, it seems like maybe they had that in mind at some point but scrapped it. Its lost potential really.

Also something I didn't mention is how bad 42 year old Aaron Paul is. Why am I bringing it up now? Because clearly the time machine hypothetical was perfect for Jesse. They realized he was doing such a bad fucking job they cut his role out or didn't even consider it.

Although if we’re just BSing potential spinoff ideas, a Hank Schrader-Steve Gomez DEA buddy cop series could be one. Then you’d also have various side characters like Bill Oakley, Marie Schrader, etc. that would have very little relevance to the main BB+BCS plot line.

They gave every character except Jeff closure. Shows where they might go with the spinoffs.

 

[Absurdist Laughter]

Yeah, there was no comeuppance. It was the happiest possible ending Saul could have had from the choices that led him to where he was.

O0o0o0o but Kim could get sued in civil court. BFD who cares. She too had a "happy" end.

They're better writers than this.

If being sued harder than Alex Jones sounds like a fun happy ending, die in prison never having freedom again happy ending.

That's still fucking stupid. We aren't talking the difference between 7 years and 20 years. We're talking 7 years, and never being a free man and getting buried in the jail's graveyard. Even the most pure man in the world wouldn't sacrifice himself like that for a fucking smoke and wink from a jilted ex-lover.

Absolutely right, the point of it is, he didn't run away from a problem. Being a lawyer is all about trying to run away (getting your client free), which he was very good with as highlighted in the negotiation scene.

Jimmy wouldn't want to be in a normal prison population where someone with cartel ties could find him. He wasn't going to get Kim back, and torpedoing his deal removed any slim hope.

Which, I think, is exactly what the intentions were.

I can see Jimmy coming to terms with the fact that he is never going to change. I am less convinced by his solution - to take himself off the board permanently - because I still don't understand why he did it. I am not convinced he is capable of that level of altruism or that he would lay down like that, even for Kim.

He relapsed like an addict, we were foreshadowed this when he stood up for the kid stealing in the mall and hid in the photobooth. Prison seems like the way Saul described ADX it sounded like a rehab center not a prison. Maybe he never gets fixed, maybe he'll get out for good behavior. He wanted to live a normal life after New Mexico, at least that is what he thought he wanted. Everything that led to Gene's downfall was because he wanted to "solve" his own problem. Tough guy moment and what not but when the boogie man taxi driver turned out to be an idiot, well, he wanted more out of it. Some satisfaction that he could either die or go back to what he had in New Mexico, when he didn't get it, he decides to use this boogie man turned child to satisfy an urge like a heroine addict.

She got away with everything, and didn't suffer any consequences whatsoever except small self-inflicted ones.

tldr: fuck you kim you sanctimonious bitch.

It isn't a morality play, it is a slice of life story of a fictional scenario. Also, I sure hope we get five episodes of watching Kim get sued past poverty.

Suffice it to say I will NEVER be convinced of Kim and Jimmy's culpability in Lalo murdering Howard. But for thar flukish totally unforseeable disaster, it would have been a jerkish but relatively harmless prank. Remebe, few were moral fagging about how morally reprobate it was until after the unthinkable happened. That is how you know people are moral fagging only with the advantage of hindsight.

Lalo never would have been there if they both didn't get involved with the Cartel. Just like Hank and Gomez probably would not have been killed if Walt stayed a teacher or with the company. Walt didn't pull the trigger to kill Hank just as Jimmy and Kim did not pull the trigger on Howard; why make an exception?

She also introduced Jesse to heroin which Walt knew. And Jesse being on drugs nearly cost them their initial relationship with Gus Fring. We know that Walt had a soft spot for Jesse. Him letting Jane die was basically a sick and twisted way of freeing Jesse from her. And it sobers him up as well. Walt could have easily killed Jesse then and there by setting a fire or injecting him with drugs.

I wonder if he had a soft spot for Jesse because he saw himself in them; a push over. Maybe every time Walt gets extremely angry at Jesse he's actually yelling at himself and his past "regrets".


Honestly, I feel folks were expecting a big guns blazing ending for Saul, but in reality, he's a tragic character and a small worm of a criminal like all the rest of them. But even maggots tend to stick together. It had a very noir ending and I expected it as soon as I saw black and white in season 1. No one got a happy ending.

 

[Norbert the Tiger]

Lalo never would have been there if they both didn't get involved with the Cartel. Just like Hank and Gomez probably would not have been killed if Walt stayed a teacher or with the company. Walt didn't pull the trigger to kill Hank just as Jimmy and Kim did not pull the trigger on Howard; why make an exception?

God this is tiresome. I already addressed this, at length. Foreseeability and causation. It was not foreesable that Lalo would show up. It is true that "but for" Kim and Jimmy's scam, Howard would not have been there. Where do we draw the line?
If Chuck had not pressured Howard to freeze Jimmy out of HHM, or if Chuck had not appointed Howard as trustee so that Howard handed the "fuck you from beyond the grave" letter to Kim, Kim and Jimmy would not have notive to run the scam. Therefore, BUT FOR Chuck's actions.. Howard would still be alive.
Or its the attorneys involved in teh Sandpiper Case because they would not settle, drawing the case out. But for them doing that, Kim and Jimmy would have no reason to run the same.
Oh, I know, it's Nacho's fault. Because if Nacho had not told Lalo about Jimmy McGill, he would never have met Lalo and became a friend of the cartel, and then Lalo would never have teleported into their apartment and killed Howard.
That's why causation has to be both foreseeable and proximate.

While I am here wanted to address this post as well.

This is the same kind of absolute that I think misses the point. There usually isn't just one thing that leads to a business going under, Chuck resented Jimmy because he was stealing from the till of the family business, even if he was already running it poorly it's an understandable point of resentment because it sure as shit didn't help. Jimmy's cynicism developed because his father was such a rube, which is also understandable, but it just explains why he became a shithead fine with manipulating people. Most shitty people have a reason for being shitty, both Chuck and Jimmy are flawed but not totally off base. Season 2 is important imo because Jimmy had a very good gig if he could have just played by the rules but even with Chuck out of his life he just couldn't, so Chuck was at least sort of onto something in suggesting that he had a fundamentally flawed character that would have been dangerous in the law.

For one thing, Jimmy is a young boy in the scene. A father is supposed to be a role model, who demonstrates stregnth, wisdom, things like that. It was incumbent on Chuck as the older brother and really the rest of the family to find out that the Father was bleeding cash in that way. Does Chuck do that? No, he just assumes that all the shortfalls are because of Jimmy., to feed his animus and resentment to his younger brother. With the details in that shot, that people from all around no this guy is a pushoever, it is convincing to me that the primary cause of the business failing. Father McGill is giving away money that should be going to the family, including Jimmy. Might as well take some before the ship sinks, or at least that is how a young boy might think.

 

[TheHarbinger]

For one thing, Jimmy is a young boy in the scene. A father is supposed to be a role model, who demonstrates stregnth, wisdom, things like that. It was incumbent on Chuck as the older brother and really the rest of the family to find out that the Father was bleeding cash in that way. Does Chuck do that? No, he just assumes that all the shortfalls are because of Jimmy., to feed his animus and resentment to his younger brother.

Correct. Chuck ALWAYS assumes the worst of Jimmy no matter what. How did Jimmy get more Sandpiper clients? Must have cheated the system. How did their father's business fail? Must have been Jimmy. Why was there no newspaper today? Must be Jimmy behind it. How did Jimmy get to his house? Jimmy obviously drove drunk. Often times Chuck is correct. Jimmy did indeed switch the Mesa Verde address numbers behind his back. But before Jimmy knew that Chuck was secretly ruining his legal career behind his back he legitimately tried to help Chuck with his illness and his hermitical lifestyle. And even then Chuck does not understand why Jimmy is helping him because he has no concept of family bonds.

Since their father's business failed Chuck hated Jimmy. Hence lying to Jimmy about what their mother's last words were. He only bails Jimmy out of his troubles in Chicago because Jimmy agrees to work for Chuck. Now Chuck "owns" Jimmy. He bailed Jimmy out and places him in a job that Jimmy will never progress from. He has Jimmy under his thumb. He tells Rebecca that Jimmy is a loser and to be polite no matter how hard it is. What are Chuck's reactions when Jimmy shows him he passed the bar? "How...did...?". And? Immediately going to Howard and warning Howard that Jimmy will come to him for a job and he needs to fire Jimmy from the company now before he can get a foot in the door as a lawyer at HHM. Chuck's first reaction when Jimmy brings him Sandpiper is to conspire to give it to Howard which he does without Jimmy realizing it until it is too late.

Jimmy harassing Howard over the case is revenge from the first season because he knows Howard's involvement in Sandpiper was because he scammed it out of Jimmy. People always forget this. That Howard took that call from Chuck at night and worked overnight to take the case from Jimmy. Offering him a finders fee and humiliating him in front of the HHM board.

This is why Jimmy's last second destruction of his plea deal to honor his dead brother is so ridiculous. He hated Chuck and Howard. Knowing he was partially involved in both of their deaths but breezed right past it during most of BCS and all of BB. Only to have it be a centerpiece of his extreme character reversal was downright atrocious storytelling. Like if Chuck and Howard hired Jimmy right after he got his license he probably never even becomes Saul Goodman.

People who defend the ending of BCS are utterly pathetic.

With the details in that shot, that people from all around no this guy is a pushoever, it is convincing to me that the primary cause of the business failing. Father McGill is giving away money that should be going to the family, including Jimmy. Might as well take some before the ship sinks, or at least that is how a young boy might think.

Their father is like a gambling addict with the family's money. Flushing it down to scam artists instead of slot machines. Jimmy was just protecting himself and his mother from their idiot father who was incapable of being a breadwinner.

 

[Norbert the Tiger]

@TheHarbinger Jimmy was just protecting himself and his mother from their idiot father who was incapable of being a breadwinner.

Well he did try to protect his dad to start. I dont think he was when he broke down and took money from the till. But if, as a boy, you try to be a sheepdog and get your dad to stop being one of the sheep....

 

[AnOminous]

If being sued harder than Alex Jones sounds like a fun happy ending, die in prison never having freedom again happy ending.

Much like Walt's ending, it's better than he deserved, and people were mad that he got it, even though it was dying on a filthy basement floor in a meth lab. As happy endings go, I've seen happier.

Since their father's business failed Chuck hated Jimmy. Hence lying to Jimmy about what their mother's last words were. He only bails Jimmy out of his troubles in Chicago because Jimmy agrees to work for Chuck.

Now this should be an easy one. Chuck hates Jimmy, whether he admits it or not, because despite the fact he put every ounce of being into behaving perfectly and being the perfect son and making them proud of him, they loved the fucked-up one Jimmy more.

 

[ln18]

Got to s2 BrBa finale... I totally forgot the part where Walt jabbed sleeping Jane with 500mg of Fentanyl. She really was gonna make it reddit.