Western Animation - Discuss American, Canadian, and European cartoons here (or just bitch about wokeshit, I guess)

Anybody who knows who is the original artist of this legendary image? I remember that it was posted on /co/ back on 2020
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(whos the egyptian chick?)
Oh ho boy, if you got this from those kinds of sites, you will never find the original artist. Unless they use the same distinct drawing program brushes like that one guy who kept making XJ9 thirstpics.

Every cartoon has a lesbian couple these days, it’s not even a big deal anymore.
I don’t care if they’re in it or not, I care when the show/fanatics talk about how “revolutionary” and “brave” and groundbreaking “ it is that they pushed to have a lesbian couple when it’s the 100th time they’ve said it about the 100th show.
We talked about this in the SU thread when Becky Sugar started this crap. Basically she revealed she was warned by the execs that if she does the gay wedding, everyone will want a gay wedding, thus watering down the impact of it all and making gays/gay weddings boring. And now here we are, only dying journo sites and "identity=personality" types give a shit anymore.

I'm with you on the "I don't give a shit" boat but when the ones making it make you give a shit, it brings down the vibe.

For me I been trying to think what cartoon female character have I seen in recent years who wasnt lesbian or bisexual and was just plain straight?
How recent are we talking here? I can only think of four examples.
  • A couple of the girls (minus the rock one) from the Loud House I think.
  • Someone mentioned Candace, add Isabella.
  • Mabel was too straight to function.
  • Rosemary from High Garbage Spice. The show was implying Sage and her were gonna be a thing but it was the same with Snapdragon's troonery: Just implied it, never supplied it.

Someone pointed this out on Twitter. In the reboot, they rounded out the edges on Joan's head for some reason.
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Considering the 2002 original used the angular "retro flat" style, it feels a little off-putting.
Same thing happened to The Professor in the Powerpuff 2016 reboot.
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I'm assuming it's a copyright thing to "revamp" the style enough to make more marketing products and to lengthen how long the license can stay with the company (another reason why capeshit will never die by the way).

Slight artsperg: It is way quicker to make straight lines with sharp, boxy corners than rounded corners. Unless you can combine the two like MLaaTR and anything by Craig McCracken, you just get a flat cutesy look that makes Sanrio wanna call you a basic bitch.

Look at this absolute stud:
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I miss him.
Oh my God Johnny Bravo was also a perfect combo of curvy and sharp lines! Thanks for the hot reminder!

Oh God him and Butch Hartman are the few non sheep cartoon creators in the animation world. Got any others?
Jhonen Vasquez might be among the last holdouts of goth/emo culture. He should count, right?
 
(whos the egyptian chick?)
Oh ho boy, if you got this from those kinds of sites, you will never find the original artist. Unless they use the same distinct drawing program brushes like that one guy who kept making XJ9 thirstpics.



We talked about this in the SU thread when Becky Sugar started this crap. Basically she revealed she was warned by the execs that if she does the gay wedding, everyone will want a gay wedding, thus watering down the impact of it all and making gays/gay weddings boring. And now here we are, only dying journo sites and "identity=personality" types give a shit anymore.

I'm with you on the "I don't give a shit" boat but when the ones making it make you give a shit, it brings down the vibe.


How recent are we talking here? I can only think of four examples.
  • A couple of the girls (minus the rock one) from the Loud House I think.
  • Someone mentioned Candace, add Isabella.
  • Mabel was too straight to function.
  • Rosemary from High Garbage Spice. The show was implying Sage and her were gonna be a thing but it was the same with Snapdragon's troonery: Just implied it, never supplied it.



I'm assuming it's a copyright thing to "revamp" the style enough to make more marketing products and to lengthen how long the license can stay with the company (another reason why capeshit will never die by the way).

Slight artsperg: It is way quicker to make straight lines with sharp, boxy corners than rounded corners. Unless you can combine the two like MLaaTR and anything by Craig McCracken, you just get a flat cutesy look that makes Sanrio wanna call you a basic bitch.


Oh my God Johnny Bravo was also a perfect combo of curvy and sharp lines! Thanks for the hot reminder!


Jhonen Vasquez might be among the last holdouts of goth/emo culture. He should count, right?
I guess so. I forgot that he's part of the goth/emo culture granted it's easy to tell with his work
 
The side characters really carry the show. Ivy in particular was not someone I thought I would care for, but she was pretty funny for the first half.
They really do.

I would love to see a series about Joker and his wife and kids.
I think Harley is weirdly the worst part of the show in many aspects. Season one she was alright, but the further it went, the more her antics made me question why the squad really stuck with her, she has like no off button.
That’s one of the reasons why I hate Harley. She has no off button!

She’s always pulling some stupid stunt that backfires on her.

Not to mention, look how she treats her ‘friends’. Poor shark lost his fin in season 1. Her crew were right to leave.

Harley and Ivy’s relationship is just a byproduct of Harley’s shittiness. The two have little chemistry and are basically juxtaposed for most of the series. Harley really cares little for Ivy in season 1 & 2 and is overall a shit friend, but gets her dream relationship anyway.
Honestly, Ivy and Kite Man should’ve stayed together. I’m not a shipper but they were a much better match.
 
I would love to see a series about Joker and his wife and kids.

Normally id prefer joker one of 3 ways: a murderous psycho that unrepentantly stacks bodies like cordwoood, a goofy prankster as played by ceaser Romero, or a lone anarchist who sees the world and especially life itself as nothing but a joke and the only way to respond to a joke is to laugh at it.

If the harley show has done one good thing it's convince me you can diverge from these formulas if you know how to make them funny, unique, or endearing.

That’s one of the reasons why I hate Harley. She has no off button!
Even in most incarnations up until the conner palmmioti Era (which this show is influenced/based on. Harley knew when to drop the act and take things seriously.
She’s always pulling some stupid stunt that backfires on her.
See in batman tas her never learning from her mistakes was part of her tragedy. She was trapping herself in a cycle of abuse and there was genuine tragedy there. I can feel sorry for someone who can't or in her case won't see a toxic relationship for what it is. I can't feel sorry for a moron who chposes to never learn, and thinks maybe this time things will be different.
Not to mention, look how she treats her ‘friends’. Poor shark lost his fin in season 1. Her crew were right to leave.
See that is why I want to believe the theory the show is how Harleys thot brain sees the world, heavily filtered through her rose colored glasses. In what incarnation would heavy hitters like bane or king shark just shrugg off things like that by leaving her?
Honestly, Ivy and Kite Man should’ve stayed together. I’m not a shipper but they were a much better match.
Although DC pairing them together predates it, I blame the pulse shooting and the subsequent printing of that shit love Is love comic for making it so that neither Harley or Ivy will ever be in a long term hetero relationship ever again. Pair them together to show support for the poor, constantly at risk of getting killed by evil right wing extremists lqbt community. So you gotta keep them together for the rest of time.
 
Normally id prefer joker one of 3 ways: a murderous psycho that unrepentantly stacks bodies like cordwoood, a goofy prankster as played by ceaser Romero, or a lone anarchist who sees the world and especially life itself as nothing but a joke and the only way to respond to a joke is to laugh at it.

If the harley show has done one good thing it's convince me you can diverge from these formulas if you know how to make them funny, unique, or endearing.


Even in most incarnations up until the conner palmmioti Era (which this show is influenced/based on. Harley knew when to drop the act and take things seriously.

See in batman tas her never learning from her mistakes was part of her tragedy. She was trapping herself in a cycle of abuse and there was genuine tragedy there. I can feel sorry for someone who can't or in her case won't see a toxic relationship for what it is. I can't feel sorry for a moron who chposes to never learn, and thinks maybe this time things will be different.

See that is why I want to believe the theory the show is how Harleys thot brain sees the world, heavily filtered through her rose colored glasses. In what incarnation would heavy hitters like bane or king shark just shrugg off things like that by leaving her?

Although DC pairing them together predates it, I blame the pulse shooting and the subsequent printing of that shit love Is love comic for making it so that neither Harley or Ivy will ever be in a long term hetero relationship ever again. Pair them together to show support for the poor, constantly at risk of getting killed by evil right wing extremists lqbt community. So you gotta keep them together for the rest of time.
I hope one day wokness dies a brutal and miserable death. And if that day comes some brave artist will raise and make Ivy and Harley straight again. I mean wasn't that Ivy's whole stick.

I know I'm being overly optimistic but a guy can dream of things getting better.
 
I hope one day wokness dies a brutal and miserable death. And if that day comes some brave artist will raise and make Ivy and Harley straight again. I mean wasn't that Ivy's whole stick.

I know I'm being overly optimistic but a guy can dream of things getting better.
Actually her stick has varied. In the 60s she was a satire of the whole "free love! save mother nature dude!" Flower child movement. Batman tas kept that somewhat but also turned her into a traditional femme Fatale. If there was an Ivy episode chances are its plot would involve;

Ivy creating a race of killer super plants to fight back against humans.

Ivy conning people out of everything they have using some "natural health cure." That turns out to be a way to turn people into plants.

Ivy using pheromones and killer lipstick to brainwash rich and powerful men to simp for her and give her whatever she wants and once they outlive their usefulness she gives them the kiss of death qith her poison lipstick.
 
Actually her stick has varied. In the 60s she was a satire of the whole "free love! save mother nature dude!" Flower child movement. Batman tas kept that somewhat but also turned her into a traditional femme Fatale. If there was an Ivy episode chances are its plot would involve;

Ivy creating a race of killer super plants to fight back against humans.

Ivy conning people out of everything they have using some "natural health cure." That turns out to be a way to turn people into plants.

Ivy using pheromones and killer lipstick to brainwash rich and powerful men to simp for her and give her whatever she wants and once they outlive their usefulness she gives them the kiss of death qith her poison lipstick.
Your describing what I miss about old Ivy. I hate this new no nonsense lesbian Ivy!!
 
We talked about this in the SU thread when Becky Sugar started this crap. Basically she revealed she was warned by the execs that if she does the gay wedding, everyone will want a gay wedding, thus watering down the impact of it all and making gays/gay weddings boring. And now here we are, only dying journo sites and "identity=personality" types give a shit anymore.
I've read that part of the art book and I didn't get the impression those execs were worried about the concept becoming repetitive, just that it would happen at all and it'd be harder to sell as a result. They were technically right since it led to SU's cancellation, but other shows having their LGBT elements feels a lot more in your face than it actually is thanks to all these articles constantly celebrating it as "the new big thing!". Never underestimate how people and media unconnected to the original product can alter your perception of said product.
 
Normally id prefer joker one of 3 ways: a murderous psycho that unrepentantly stacks bodies like cordwoood, a goofy prankster as played by ceaser Romero, or a lone anarchist who sees the world and especially life itself as nothing but a joke and the only way to respond to a joke is to laugh at it.

If the harley show has done one good thing it's convince me you can diverge from these formulas if you know how to make them funny, unique, or endearing.
Exactly.

I didn’t think I would like Joker being a supervillain and a dad/husband but I do and I would love to see a show about it.

And as weird as it sounds, Joker’s family gave me an idea for a animated miniseries.
See in batman tas her never learning from her mistakes was part of her tragedy. She was trapping herself in a cycle of abuse and there was genuine tragedy there. I can feel sorry for someone who can't or in her case won't see a toxic relationship for what it is. I can't feel sorry for a moron who chposes to never learn, and thinks maybe this time things will be different.
Yeah, I felt sorry for the TAS version of Harley Quinn. She was a poor, deluded person in a toxic relationship.

This version of Harley is an idiot responsible for her own actions and like you said, she never fucking learns.
See that is why I want to believe the theory the show is how Harleys thot brain sees the world, heavily filtered through her rose colored glasses. In what incarnation would heavy hitters like bane or king shark just shrugg off things like that by leaving her?
Totally agree.

In any other version, Bane or King Shark would’ve ripped someone like Harley apart limb from limb. The whole show is just a power fantasy for Harley Quinn.
 
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Actually her stick has varied. In the 60s she was a satire of the whole "free love! save mother nature dude!" Flower child movement. Batman tas kept that somewhat but also turned her into a traditional femme Fatale. If there was an Ivy episode chances are its plot would involve;

Ivy creating a race of killer super plants to fight back against humans.

Ivy conning people out of everything they have using some "natural health cure." That turns out to be a way to turn people into plants.

Ivy using pheromones and killer lipstick to brainwash rich and powerful men to simp for her and give her whatever she wants and once they outlive their usefulness she gives them the kiss of death qith her poison lipstick.

Your describing what I miss about old Ivy. I hate this new no nonsense lesbian Ivy!!
One thing that has been lost with Ivy's character is her misanthropy. She doesn't give a damn about humans (or animals for that matter). But because of that one episode in BTAS where she and Harley team up, writers decided that Ivy also cares for Harley even though it contradicts her "plants over people" attitude.

I respect the 2004 Batman animated series for its version of Poison Ivy, where she was the high school best friend of Barbara Gordon and retained her misanthropic nature.
 
All this talk about Ivy's being a lesbian now reminds me of something a blogger once said...

... and weirdly this was a left-wing blogger who was basically a proto-SJW, which should tell you how bad things have gotten.

The blogger was talking about Marvel's character Northstar, one of the first superheroes to come out as gay. Thing is, he was saying this ruined the character because before this, Northstar actually had a varied and interesting history where he could be kind of a jerk, wasn't always right, sometimes veered into anti-hero territory, etc.... or something like that (I'll admit its been awhile since I read that article and I honestly have never read any of the comics Northstar is in. I may even be getting his name wrong).

But now that Northstar is out as gay.... Marvel's writers basically can't make him interesting anymore. If he's jerkish or flirts with anti-hero behaviors or whatever.... then that's too easy to read as homophobic. So now he has to be the very best like no one ever was, a perfect fountain of sunshine and rainbows, just so Marvel can't be accused of being homophobic.

I was thinking the same might go for Poison Ivy and maybe this is why they're trying to make her more heroic... because it would be bad optics if she returned to killing people with plants.
 
See in batman tas her never learning from her mistakes was part of her tragedy. She was trapping herself in a cycle of abuse and there was genuine tragedy there. I can feel sorry for someone who can't or in her case won't see a toxic relationship for what it is. I can't feel sorry for a moron who chposes to never learn, and thinks maybe this time things will be different.
The first season of Harley Quinn did this fine it was a season based on said tragedy. They took it into a new direction by having Ivy snap at her for constantly ditching to impress the Joker, but the general idea was still intact and Ivy’s speech about why Harley is her worst fear does form changes in Harley. Season 2 just screws up that entire arc. Sure, she is over the Joker, but she reverts back to being up her own ass.

I like the ending of season 3 though as her having to face Batman, and what he means, was a good moment. I really got a “nice guys don’t deserve bad days” vibe from the exchange and it pushes her to be a better person, maybe a hero. I like the idea of a redeemed Harley as it seems like a good conclusion, though I will admit, a large problem with that story is the obnoxious kill counts every media seems to give her past BTAS.

I hope one day wokness dies a brutal and miserable death. And if that day comes some brave artist will raise and make Ivy and Harley straight again. I mean wasn't that Ivy's whole stick.

I know I'm being overly optimistic but a guy can dream of things getting better.
Ivy is a weird one and a big problem with the Batman female villains is the re-use of the Fem-fatal trope. Catwoman is the best of the pack being the first and how her whole appeal is that she could be Bruce’s lover. Then Ivy came and did the good looking villainous thing again, but was a misanthrope with plant powers. The worst use of it was Harley though. BTAS made her cute, but was focused more on the sympathetic character due to the abuse. Then, around 2010, she became DC’s new sex appeal character and the wrongness of that pairing really shows. Making the battered house wife tempt men into eating her ass, was horrid characterization. Due to Harley’s new stature, the three have kind of spiraled into weird characterizations.

Catwoman became Batman’s full-time bitch, barely even a villain at this point. This could theoretically work, have the Cat finally hook up with her man and be a new member of the Bat family, but since DC doesn’t want Batman in a relationship, it is just bait with little substance.

Ivy is a character they really want to push the science bitch card on, which again, could really do some good for the character. The problem though is that she always falls into being Harley’s play thing and nothing more due to the lesbian ship.
 
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The first season of Harley Quinn did this fine it was a season based on said tragedy. They took it into a new direction by having Ivy snap at her for constantly ditching to impress the Joker, but the general idea was still intact and Ivy’s speech about why Harley is her worst fear does form changes in Harley. Season 2 just screws up that entire arc. Sure, she is over the Joker, but she reverts back to being up her own ass.

I like the ending of season 3 though as her having to face Batman, and what he means, was a good moment. I really got a “nice guys don’t deserve bad days” vibe from the exchange and it pushes her to be a better person, maybe a hero. I like the idea of a redeemed Harley as it seems like a good conclusion, though I will admit, a large problem with that story is the obnoxious kill counts every media seems to give her past BTAS.


Ivy is a weird one and a big problem with the Batman female villains is the re-use of the Fem-fatal trope. Catwoman is the best of the pack being the first and how her whole appeal is that she could be Bruce’s lover. Then Ivy came and did the good looking villainous thing again, but was a misanthrope with plant powers. The worst use of it was Harley though. BTAS made her cute, but was focused more on the sympathetic character due to the abuse. Then, around 2010, she became DC’s new sex appeal character and the wrongness of that pairing really shows. Making the battered house wife tempt men into eating her ass, was horrid characterization. Due to Harley’s new stature, the three have kind of spiraled into weird characterizations.

Catwoman became Batman’s full-time bitch, barely even a villain at this point. This could theoretically work, have the Cat finally hook up with her man and be a new member of the Bat family, but since DC doesn’t want Batman in a relationship, it is just bait with little substance.

Ivy is a character they really want to push the science bitch card on, which again, could really do some good for the character. The problem though is that she always falls into being Harley’s play thing and nothing more due to the lesbian ship. For all its faults, the Harley show was probably the best version of this new direction and has become a favorite adaptation of mine. Ivy has a habit of being pretty static and kind of boring, with adaptations like Arkham being dull, so giving her more of a sense of humor made me like her in the series.

Here is my general thoughts, change is fine, but DC really needs to write it better and risk changing the status quo. If they want a new Ivy and Catwoman, go for it, but doing what they are now just drags the girls through the mud to prop up Harley. As for Harley, IDK. Someone needs to go through the good ideas of her adaptations, remove the obnoxious shit, and write an outline for what this character is. Currently, she is directionless and many issues stem from that.
The big problem is there trying to make these three female characters into feminist icons when that wasn't the original intent when the characters were created and end up making the character shifts awkward at best. Since the writers have to retcon alot of stuff to make that work.
 
One thing that has been lost with Ivy's character is her misanthropy. She doesn't give a damn about humans (or animals for that matter). But because of that one episode in BTAS where she and Harley team up, writers decided that Ivy also cares for Harley even though it contradicts her "plants over people" attitude.

I respect the 2004 Batman animated series for its version of Poison Ivy, where she was the high school best friend of Barbara Gordon and retained her misanthropic nature.
I don't think it really did. Ivy cares about plants more than people but if there was no conflict she is okey with people. Her crimes are about deserving victims, not just randomly attacking humans. She puts plants before people but if people didn't bother plants, she didn't bother them. Sure her standards of what is considered bothering plants are nuts but there are still standards and that allows her to care about people if there are no plants involved.

Ivy sees herself as a freedom fighter and a protector of the abused and overlooked nature. She has a savior complex of sorts. Harley was being abused by Joker and needed help, that would speak to Ivy's tendencies and ego. They have quite few rare experiences and circumstances in common as female super villains in Gotham. Types of crimes that Harley helps Joker, screwing with people and Batham for psychopathic lols, aren't very likely to harm plants so there wouldn't be any inherent conflict there. So Harley just happened to have the exact right circumstances that would allow Ivy to have enough sympathy to form a friendship.
The first season of Harley Quinn did this fine it was a season based on said tragedy. They took it into a new direction by having Ivy snap at her for constantly ditching to impress the Joker, but the general idea was still intact and Ivy’s speech about why Harley is her worst fear does form changes in Harley. Season 2 just screws up that entire arc. Sure, she is over the Joker, but she reverts back to being up her own ass.

I like the ending of season 3 though as her having to face Batman, and what he means, was a good moment. I really got a “nice guys don’t deserve bad days” vibe from the exchange and it pushes her to be a better person, maybe a hero. I like the idea of a redeemed Harley as it seems like a good conclusion, though I will admit, a large problem with that story is the obnoxious kill counts every media seems to give her past BTAS.


Ivy is a weird one and a big problem with the Batman female villains is the re-use of the Fem-fatal trope. Catwoman is the best of the pack being the first and how her whole appeal is that she could be Bruce’s lover. Then Ivy came and did the good looking villainous thing again, but was a misanthrope with plant powers. The worst use of it was Harley though. BTAS made her cute, but was focused more on the sympathetic character due to the abuse. Then, around 2010, she became DC’s new sex appeal character and the wrongness of that pairing really shows. Making the battered house wife tempt men into eating her ass, was horrid characterization. Due to Harley’s new stature, the three have kind of spiraled into weird characterizations.

Catwoman became Batman’s full-time bitch, barely even a villain at this point. This could theoretically work, have the Cat finally hook up with her man and be a new member of the Bat family, but since DC doesn’t want Batman in a relationship, it is just bait with little substance.

Ivy is a character they really want to push the science bitch card on, which again, could really do some good for the character. The problem though is that she always falls into being Harley’s play thing and nothing more due to the lesbian ship. For all its faults, the Harley show was probably the best version of this new direction and has become a favorite adaptation of mine. Ivy has a habit of being pretty static and kind of boring, with adaptations like Arkham being dull, so giving her more of a sense of humor made me like her in the series.

Here is my general thoughts, change is fine, but DC really needs to write it better and risk changing the status quo. If they want a new Ivy and Catwoman, go for it, but doing what they are now just drags the girls through the mud to prop up Harley. As for Harley, IDK. Someone needs to go through the good ideas of her adaptations, remove the obnoxious shit, and write an outline for what this character is. Currently, she is directionless and many issues stem from that.
Personally I have always found Catwoman be the weakest character of the three. Her theme is boring, her crimes are boring and she has no unique skills, powers or tools. There is nothing to her outside of romantic tension with Batman and I hate that. I honestly avoid anything with Catwoman in it.

Batman isn't a character whose love life I want to see that much. He's just not intresting as a romantic lead. What can you do with him and romance? Angsting about his obsessive tendencies and crime fighting? Tedious and over done. I find every other type of relationship more intresting because they can be mixed more with what makes Batman an interesting and enduring character. He's a really wierd detective solving really wierd crimes.
 
The big problem is there trying to make these three female characters into feminist icons when that wasn't the original intent when the characters were created and end up making the character shifts awkward at best. Since the writers have to retcon alot of stuff to make that work.
Pretty much. I would claim Catwoman was the most graceful as she always had the opportunity to be a hero, plus great adaptations like The Dark Knight had her and Bruce get together. Though as @Amber the Hedgehog points out, she doesn’t have much and the reasons the two getting together in adaptations works is because it is end-game and the series is over by that point.

I will say this to @Amber the Hedgehog, I think Catwoman works as a story beat to “fix” the Bat. She is the conclusion to him being reinvented to a much happier man. The relationship is a sign for the type of Batman you have. If they get together, you get a bright knight or retired Batman, if not, then Batman ceases to be Wayne and becomes a symbol like Arkham Knight. She makes Batman re-evaluate his life path.
 
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Your describing what I miss about old Ivy. I hate this new no nonsense lesbian Ivy!!
At first you'd think they would keep the "make men simp for me then hang them out to dry." Aspect of the character to maybe be a satire on simping and how the whole men these days will do any thing for a pretty face." Cliche never really went away, but oh no that would be a hurtful stereotype about women and wouldn't be "empowering enough. "


So instead let's make her into a whiny skank, and a needy best friend who's always dtf. Trade one outdated stereotype for another.
 
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