Celebrity Madonna - elderly woman mired in existential crisis.

[RussianBlonde]

I love that era/genre and have since its start 30 years ago. And that song is all right, but it's 90% J!mmy and 10% random affected croaky-voiced girl barely pushing sound. It could have been anyone.

Also watched the video, and I've confirmed my bemused amazement at Lourdes' apparent gigantic belief that she is off the charts gorgeous, when she is not only very homely (and that's okay), but she is not stylistically interesting. She's driving straight street chicana from the year 2000, and the tiny dash of club kid affect is undone by those ghetto nails. And I finally had to quit the video because I couldn't take one more "let me poke out my ass and roll over on my stomach while looking back at the camera (aka "imagine you're fucking me from behind, if you can stand it")" shot.

I think I liked the red of her lipstick, though.

I don't think she's trying to act gorgeous or sexy (Kardashian style) and I don't think she's ever had, I mean hairy armpits and all. If anything I'd say she's acting sexual while embracing naturalism.

Also her latest song "Countradiction" is giving Massive Attack kinda vibes, and yes I know it's a pastiche but at least she wrote the lyrics herself.

I'm not saying it's a musical genius and trying to blow smoke up her ass but I think she deserves credit for at least having her own style and coming out with non mainstream ideas. Imo she shines amongst all the other Nepo babies.

 

[White Devil]

Oh boy, I had no idea this thread existed. It was kinda hard reading through some pages because for many years I have been a very devoted fan of Madonna, her album was the very first album I ever bought as a 10 year old girl. I've had all the other albums , I bought the original Sex book etc. Badmouthing her would be kinda like badmouthing a family member or something.

I don't have social medias so I only see occasional posts about her popping up on the internet and I'm certain at some point something happened.

I mean she looked amazing up until her late 40s/early 50s. I think she looked fab during her Ray of Light era and throughout Confessions on a Dancefloor.

I actually do think that older women (in their 70s) can get away with still looking/wanting to be sexy (Cher) or being wild (Vivianne Westwood) without the cringe. But sadly this ain't it.

Even in 2012 when she was 54 she looked bomb during her Superbowl performance and very clearly she had her shit together.

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I haven't really been following her or her music that much afterwards, and at some point this completely new Madonna emerged but it wasn't the good reinvention she's always been known for.

I sometimes suspect she might have had a stroke. Her speech has changed, she suddenly had this weird lisp and she was slurring. I remember watching her on Jimmy Gallon or someone and she had long her extensions and was covering half of her face and her entire mannerism just seemed different. She also started to gain weight and look kinda hunched. I know she's had some serious accidents and broken bones but she's always been an absolute health obsessed fitness fanatic. As far as I remember I don't think she's even drank alcohol.

These are from the Jimmy Gallon interview, her eye seems to be droopy and her face just seems off. Either she had some health issues or a botched surgery.

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And she's been jumping on his desk like a retard and flashing her ass, which is exactly what Courtney Love (whom Madonna looked down on) used to do during interviews when she was high and drunk.

It was stated earlier in the thread, but once her long time manager / tard wrangler retired, Madonna just went full batshit. What we're seeing now is probably the real her and not the managed image she's had for 40 years.

 

[Gay Mouth]

....but also because old gay queens and women like Madonna are both catty, bitter, and used up, so they get along. Plus having plastic whores around, and women in general, raises the possibility of having straight men nearby, which every self-hating homo yearns for.

This is mostly the case but an ever so slightly less insidious factor is that young fag hags grow into old fag hags. A lot of the time they’re friends because they’re lifelong friends, came up together in NYC back when having a straight woman in your corner had higher capital. Women who are catty, bitter, used up and terminally single well into their sixties and seventies didn’t just decide to be that way after a lifetime of traditional living.they tend to have always been friends with the gays.

That their supposed friends encourage their promiscuity and self destruction seems to be lost on them

 

[Madonna_Claws]

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Those pink shorts are giving “there’s an adult diaper under here..."

"I've written a letter to daddy..."

She's never going to be able to really dance again, is she? That I actually feel sorry for her. The upcoming Celebration Tour will be interesting to see from thst point of view, I can see the dancers doing the bulk.of the work.

For this reason....

....but also because old gay queens and women like Madonna are both catty, bitter, and used up, so they get along. Plus having plastic whores around, and women in general, raises the possibility of having straight men nearby, which every self-hating homo yearns for.

LOL that stuff sounds like it was written by a spoiled idiot born after 9/11.
Madonna employed gay dancers for years (and they looked very, very gay in her live shows, which wasn't really done then), and made visible a community that nobody knew or cared about outside of their AIDS-festering ghetto shitholes. I cannot believe I'm defending this silicone gollum and her fag brigade but stuff like that is pure historical revisionism.

QFT. Say what you like about her, but Madonna has outspokenly supported the gay community from day one. It's one of the few things which she has been consistent and seems genuine about.

 

[Iron Hamster]

"I've written a letter to daddy..."

She's never going to be able to really dance again, is she? That I actually feel sorry for her. The upcoming Celebration Tour will be interesting to see from thst point of view, I can see the dancers doing the bulk.of the work.

That ended when she broke her hip didn't it?

 

[Adrenochrome Dreams]

I don't think she's trying to act gorgeous or sexy (Kardashian style) and I don't think she's ever had, I mean hairy armpits and all. If anything I'd say she's acting sexual while embracing naturalism.

Also her latest song "Countradiction" is giving Massive Attack kinda vibes, and yes I know it's a pastiche but at least she wrote the lyrics herself.

I'm not saying it's a musical genius and trying to blow smoke up her ass but I think she deserves credit for at least having her own style and coming out with non mainstream ideas. Imo she shines amongst all the other Nepo babies.

Lourdes is even less vocally talented than her mum, and she definitely is trying to be sexy. In that Love Me Still video the camera literally zooms in on her crack. In the one you linked she's writhing around 98% naked on a poor, innocent horse.

She's an even worse vocalist than her mum, probably better looking but less interesting and less sex appeal than her mum, no evidence of dancing or performing ability. Cuntradiction is ... interesting, but it sounds like an album track.

Not being mainstream is a pretty low bar. For nepo babies, the judgement is, would they have had the ability to be successful without their parents? With Lourdes, definitely not. Most of her career is based on exploiting her mediocre looks, and she is in no way attractive enough to have made a career on her beauty without being Madonna's daughter.

My favourite nepo baby is Rumer Willis, she's actually talented enough to deserve her career. She also never went off the rails or acted like a spoiled brat.

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

Madonna recreating her short-haired tomboy look from the early 80’s would be far more flattering than whatever the fuck this current nightmare fuel is supposed to be. She’s reached Michael Jackson’s level of plastic surgery horror now. Imagine paying that much money to look that horrific.

I wonder how much insurance cost on carting a 70 year old woman around on a world tour. The hip replacement premium must be staggering

.

When Madonna was a teen, she had a gay dance teacher who would take her to gay dance clubs in Detroit, and she would be a bit of a star there; the cishet white girl who graced the underground with her presence in a largely ignored subculture, far removed from the mainstream (read: “exotic”)….Seems cute at first, but I think that’s where she got the taste for cultural appropriation in her system, and was embraced by a community that was largely unrepresented, often mocked, and not in a position to push back about much….

Fast forward to the 90’s: the Vogue phenomenon. Voguing was the centerpiece of underground gay ballroom culture and completely unheard of by most of “normie” society. When Madonna copied vogue, it was a double edged sword; on one had, gay culture was celebrated as exciting and elevated by the exposure; on the other, it was a blatant rip-off of marginalized people who either couldn’t push back or wouldn’t push back out of fear of losing whatever was gained. There was also the feel of Madonna being looked at like the proverbial homecoming queen (especially as a wildly popular and successful pop star) that decided to sit with the nerds (gays) at lunch to elevate their status, and they ate that shit up…..The media also heavily championed Madonna as a gay icon, even tho she was a white cishet woman profiting off their exploitation directly.

Basically, the gays are her handmaidens and most of them don’t realize it. The ones that do are the minority and are hushed or treated like they are shitting on an impeachable legacy.

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There’s a few articles out there if you look around, here’s a couple quick and dirty sources:

Appropriation Of Voguing And Queer Culture - Gaysi

Voguing has been an important part of queer identity for decades. It is a liberating form of self-expression and identity for the community, an essential element of pride. Thus, it is a celebration that should be honoured during Pride Month. The art of voguing, much like the tradition of Pride...

gaysifamily.com

Madonna’s cultural appropriation confirms what a cliche she has become | Nesrine Malik

Nesrine Malik: As they plunder minority cultures in their desperation to appear edgy, all artists such as Iggy Azalea and Madonna succeed in doing is flaunting their unoriginality

www.theguardian.com

I get so tired of the idea Madonna was appropriating black and Latino gay culture with Vogue. Wtf do you think “Voguing” was? It was black and Latino men imitating white supermodels posing for Vogue magazine and the gay men who styled them. They idolized the models in magazines and runways and wanted to RP them. How dare these poor black men appropriate French fashion and skinny white model culture! Irving Penn and Richard Avedon have been appropriated!! They are stealing the Miss Camp Queen’s pageant!

These poor gay men of color weren’t being invited to Fashion Week to strut in the 80’s, or to the Fire Island Drag pageants, so they tried to do their own version of it in rented halls. Totally cool but they were just trying to ape the real high fashion they got glimpses of In magazines and Manhattan. They dreamed of one of the real fashion icons or celebrities taking notice of their devoted fashion fan clubs and Madonna finally did. No one talks about the gay white men in the legit NYC fashion industry in the 1980’s who thought these ballroom shenanigans were sad, amateur and comical. Once Madonna took notice they got some actual positive attention and respect for innovating on a shoe string budget and incorporating street fashion. Without Madonna the entire scene would have continued to be viewed as a poor, uneducated, campy imitators in the ghetto.

Saying all this does not at subtract from my love for that bad ass queen Dorian Corey. But Dorian speaks of the gay pageant world she came from - this.

The Queen

More than 40 years before RuPaul's Drag Race, this ground-breaking documentary about the 1967 Miss All-American Camp Beauty Pageant introduced audiences to t...

m.youtube.com

The white gays were doing these types of events (but with all the sparkle abs feathers, not fashion labels) back in the early 1960’s on Fire Island. You’ll even see a few of the peeps featured in Paris is Burning during their younger glory days in those old pageants.

 

[RussianBlonde]

"I've written a letter to daddy..."

She's never going to be able to really dance again, is she? That I actually feel sorry for her. The upcoming Celebration Tour will be interesting to see from thst point of view, I can see the dancers doing the bulk.of the work.

I had a look at the tour schedule and it looks rough. Starts mid July and goes until December with concerts scheduled every 2-3 days. She's 64, I know she's probably in a much better shape than the average person her age but still. Tours are exhausting even for young and fit performers. She'll be performing like Mariah Carey.

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

I had a look at the tour schedule and it looks rough. Starts mid July and goes until December with concerts scheduled every 2-3 days. She's 64, I know she's probably in a much better shape than the average person her age but still. Tours are exhausting even for young and fit performers. She'll be performing like Mariah Carey.

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I never thought I’d say this, but Mariah and Madonna are making drunk Liza Minelli look like a fucking class act. Watching how this generation is aging gives me new found respect for Liza.

At least Madonna would be a lot more fun and interesting with less narcissism and more alcoholism

 

[mold]

I get so tired of the idea Madonna was appropriating black and Latino gay culture with Vogue. Wtf do you think “Voguing” was? It was black and Latino men imitating white supermodels posing for Vogue magazine and the gay men who styled them.

the history of the 80s and 90s is being written mostly by dorks who were too skeered to go anywhere near those places and are making up a big ol story about what it was like. nearly everyone who was there and could call the bullshitters out on their hyper rocket bullshit is dead.

 

[Friend of Dorothy Parker]

I don't think she's trying to act gorgeous or sexy (Kardashian style) and I don't think she's ever had, I mean hairy armpits and all. If anything I'd say she's acting sexual while embracing naturalism.

Also her latest song "Countradiction" is giving Massive Attack kinda vibes, and yes I know it's a pastiche but at least she wrote the lyrics herself.

I'm not saying it's a musical genius and trying to blow smoke up her ass but I think she deserves credit for at least having her own style and coming out with non mainstream ideas. Imo she shines amongst all the other Nepo babies.

You almost had me with a Massive Attack reference...but then I skipped back to the first paragraph, and lol. She's about as natural as a piece of Tupperware. Hairy pits and a full drag beat =/= natural. I appreciate the distinction btw sexual and sexy, but I think she's trying to be sexy by employing seeming hypersexual - which, of course, means she read the book her mom wrote (metaphorically, but I guess also literally, in a way).

But if she's trying to go for a sound other than purely "what are the top 10 songs by women right now," and instead trying to do something she personally likes (?), I'd respect the thought.

***OK, watched the cuntradiction video now. Thoughts: 1) she sounds a lot like her mother when in the lower register and I don't hate that; 2) it's not very good - not necessarily her fault, but the music is at times cartoony, and they didn't quite get that nice dark vibe; 3) the horse's eyewhites at the beginning were freaky; 4) she looks better than I've ever seen her (maybe curls are a good softener for her features; plus, less makeup); 5) lol she is definitely going hard for "sexy"; and 6) the director is a sly troll to pose her with horses.

Lourdes is even less vocally talented than her mum, and she definitely is trying to be sexy. In that Love Me Still video the camera literally zooms in on her crack. In the one you linked she's writhing around 98% naked on a poor, innocent horse.

She's an even worse vocalist than her mum, probably better looking but less interesting and less sex appeal than her mum, no evidence of dancing or performing ability. Cuntradiction is ... interesting, but it sounds like an album track.

Not being mainstream is a pretty low bar. For nepo babies, the judgement is, would they have had the ability to be successful without their parents? With Lourdes, definitely not. Most of her career is based on exploiting her mediocre looks, and she is in no way attractive enough to have made a career on her beauty without being Madonna's daughter.

My favourite nepo baby is Rumer Willis, she's actually talented enough to deserve her career. She also never went off the rails or acted like a spoiled brat.

Rumer Willis is so hard to look at, though. [And does she have a career?]

Madonna recreating her short-haired tomboy look from the early 80’s would be far more flattering than whatever the fuck this current nightmare fuel is supposed to be. She’s reached Michael Jackson’s level of plastic surgery horror now. Imagine paying that much money to look that horrific.

As someone in constant contact with a lot of young adults, I am going on record to say that the flat-head center part style that has been de rigeur for teens/20s the last several years (it's so early/mid 70s, with better products) is complete trash. And it especially looks trash on 65-year-olds.

(Speaking of the 80s hair, as bad as it got in certain sectors late in the decade, there is something to be said for the flattering effect of a little height and volume, for almost everyone. )

I wonder how much insurance cost on carting a 70 year old woman around on a world tour. The hip replacement premium must be staggering

.
I get so tired of the idea Madonna was appropriating black and Latino gay culture with Vogue. Wtf do you think “Voguing” was? It was black and Latino men imitating white supermodels posing for Vogue magazine and the gay men who styled them. They idolized the models in magazines and runways and wanted to RP them. How dare these poor black men appropriate French fashion and skinny white model culture! Irving Penn and Richard Avedon have been appropriated!! They are stealing the Miss Camp Queen’s pageant!

These poor gay men of color weren’t being invited to Fashion Week to strut in the 80’s, or to the Fire Island Drag pageants, so they tried to do their own version of it in rented halls. Totally cool but they were just trying to ape the real high fashion they got glimpses of In magazines and Manhattan. They dreamed of one of the real fashion icons or celebrities taking notice of their devoted fashion fan clubs and Madonna finally did. No one talks about the gay white men in the legit NYC fashion industry in the 1980’s who thought these ballroom shenanigans were sad, amateur and comical. Once Madonna took notice they got some actual positive attention and respect for innovating on a shoe string budget and incorporating street fashion. Without Madonna the entire scene would have continued to be viewed as a poor, uneducated, campy imitators in the ghetto.

It's odd to me that anyone sees this differently. That's literally how it was. And the Vogue video stands out (for the time) as featuring dancers of color [I haven't counted faces or screen time, rather am going by my impression, which was formed in real time...and if we're talking about representation/appropriation/reputation, etc., seems to me that impressions created and that managed to remain for 30 years are at least as relevant as technical data].

Saying all this does not at subtract from my love for that bad ass queen Dorian Corey. But Dorian speaks of the gay pageant world she came from - this.

The Queen

More than 40 years before RuPaul's Drag Race, this ground-breaking documentary about the 1967 Miss All-American Camp Beauty Pageant introduced audiences to t...

m.youtube.com

The white gays were doing these types of events (but with all the sparkle abs feathers, not fashion labels) back in the early 1960’s on Fire Island. You’ll even see a few of the peeps featured in Paris is Burning during their younger glory days in those old pageants.

 

[RussianBlonde]

I literally know nothing about Rumer Willis, the tree sisters look so alike and it's a bit mind blowing that such exceptionally good looking people like Bruce and Demi produced a rather peculiar looking offspring.

If we're talking about nepo babies - some are talented and deserve their place (Julia Louis-Dreyfus) . Lets be honest, people are gonna hate on nepos but everyone would use their parents' connections and wealth if they could. I think what people hate the most about nepo kids is that not only they are talentless but also brag about having to work hard/audition like everyone else. Like when Maya Hawk (Uma Thurman's daughter) claimed she had to "audition like everyone else" to get the part in Tarantino's movie. Come on. Then you have insufferable pieces of shit like KarJenners. or Brooklyn Beckham and Nicola Peltz. I'd say Lola looks pretty good in comparison but I haven't really seen any interviews with her so I don't know.

 

[AssignedEva]

I never thought I’d say this, but Mariah and Madonna are making drunk Liza Minelli look like a fucking class act. Watching how this generation is aging gives me new found respect for Liza.

At least Madonna would be a lot more fun and interesting with less narcissism and more alcoholism

Liza Minelli is cuckoo bananas but she also doesn't take herself seriously and is able to make fun of herself. She'll also openly acknowledge that she can't dance like she used to because she's old, and that she was never the best singer - and she'll make jokes about it.

Madonna exclusively takes herself seriously. Even weird videos like her dancing while dressed as a homeless woman or her rolling around in a milk bath - she thinks she's showcasing herself "living in the moment and being free and moving her body" or that she's being subversive and enviably edgy and cool and sexy.

This inaccurate self image and lack of levity are traits common to cows because of the amount of cringe it generates. It's kinda hard to tell with Mariah because as insufferable as she can be, I do get the sense she deliberately camps up the diva persona and is in on the joke.

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

the history of the 80s and 90s is being written mostly by dorks who were too skeered to go anywhere near those places and are making up a big ol story about what it was like. nearly everyone who was there and could call the bullshitters out on their hyper rocket bullshit is dead.

True. All the people actively participating in the scene were dead from AIDS or drugs by 2000, leaving mostly the detritus that had no active involvement to pretend they were there and insert cliched reverence and “deep” meaning to it.

@Friend of Dorothy Parker, since can’t quote reply.
Maybe it’s because I had a big Andy Warhol / Edie Sedgwick phase as a teen so I’m shocked people don’t understand that Warhol wrote the playbook on taking and making “gay culture” commercially and artistically viable in the wider, modern world. He was plucking the prettiest or most creative gays to use for his factory for decades. Sucking the talent, cheap labor and ideas from the young gays like a vampire from 1968 on was his entire career. However no one has had the monopoly on that since Warhol, but plenty of celebs and artist since draw from the well he drank heartily from.

Fortunately nobody can scream gay culture appropriation at Warhol since he was an alpha fag. I figure they do have fits about him trying to appropriate black junkie street culture since he got his fangs into Basquiat but Jean Michael career or painting would have never got the art world seal of approval without Warhol making him a pet.

 

[Madonna_Claws]

A bit off topic but while we're on the subject:

Famously Debbie Harry was the first person to buy a piece of Basquiat art ($500) - this must have been around 1980/81 as they knew each other from TV Party/Downtown 81/Rapture video. Was this before or after he came to Warhol's attention and thus made him an associated 'name' rather than just a face around town with distinctive graffiti?

Back on topic: Cuntradiction isn't bad, but Loudres doesn't add anything special to it. The tousled hair makes her look gorgeous (and very like her mother, it's all in the eyes) rather than her usual identikit grimy slutty look - a bit 'Like A Prayer' video, which many think is where Madonna looked her best. I've always preferred blonde Madge myself but she does look amazing in that video.

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

A bit off topic but while we're on the subject:

Famously Debbie Harry was the first person to buy a piece of Basquiat art ($500) - this must have been around 1980/81 as they knew each other from TV Party/Downtown 81/Rapture video. Was this before or after he came to Warhol's attention and thus made him an associated 'name' rather than just a face around town with distinctive graffiti?

Back on topic: Cuntradiction isn't bad, but Loudres doesn't add anything special to it. The tousled hair makes her look gorgeous (and very like her mother, it's all in the eyes) rather than her usual identikit grimy slutty look - a bit 'Like A Prayer' video, which many think is where Madonna looked her best. I've always preferred blonde Madge myself but she does look amazing in that video.

He hooked up with Warhol in 1982. I figure early (but famous) punks like like Harry admiring SAMBO graffiti and such got Warhol’s radar on to JMB. Warhol listened to people and what they talked about, esp since he no longer got out into the gritty, young village scene anymore.

The man always kept his ear to the ground for an edge. The year after meeting Warhol JMB was included in the 1983 Whitney Binnenial and got art world darling status. But Warhol had been around enough junkies to get very leery of JMB as his habit got worse and he needed constant money to fund it. Warhol used to welcome all the freaks and addicts but after getting shot his guard went up fast and hard when someone was out of control or unstable. I figure JMB being a young black man both titillated and scared Andy, but once JMB was really strung out Andy just cut his losses unless he could make a quick buck buying any new art that he found interesting.

 

[Punished Puck]

One of the weirdest things about madonna is that while dicaprio gets crucified by Twitter weirdos for dating younger women, madonna can date a string of early 20s toyboys and assault drake on the stage of a music festival with no consequences or outrage.

 

[MirnaMinkoff]

One of the weirdest things about madonna is that while dicaprio gets crucified by Twitter weirdos for dating younger women, madonna can date a string of early 20s toyboys and assault drake on the stage of a music festival with no consequences or outrage.

Probably because it’s nothing more than a cheap PR stunt for exactly the reason you stated - Madonna is trying to act like a man her age would by going for young arm Candy. Leo is getting flack because he cycles through so many young women, but the media rarely bats an eye at old man and young women pairings. Hell, one was the previous First Lady and president.

It’s also being engaged in by both parties for media attention and the media gets tired of the stunt. I figure she has a sign up sheet for 3 month photo op engagement opportunities at this point.

I honestly doubt Madonna makes any of these guys do anything but play up for the camera. I doubt she’d even let them eat off her silverware. Madonna has probably tried to pay one or two to go media about being sexually used and abused by granny, but no takers so far.

 

[RussianBlonde]

One of the weirdest things about madonna is that while dicaprio gets crucified by Twitter weirdos for dating younger women, madonna can date a string of early 20s toyboys and assault drake on the stage of a music festival with no consequences or outrage.

Lots of rich eccentric women have much younger fuck buddies or partners. The difference is that they get to the age of 60/70 and they are rich enough and chilled enough to say fuck it, I'm just gonna get this twenty-something year old dick and parade him around, because I can. But these women will have a history of dating/being married to men older than them at some point.

DiCrapio, at the ripe age of 50, has never dated anyone over the age of 25. Guy has issues. There are also rumours about him being absolutely horrendous in the sack, so that maybe a contributing factor too.

 

[Adrenochrome Dreams]

Probably because it’s nothing more than a cheap PR stunt for exactly the reason you stated - Madonna is trying to act like a man her age would by going for young arm Candy. Leo is getting flack because he cycles through so many young women, but the media rarely bats an eye at old man and young women pairings. Hell, one was the previous First Lady and president.

It’s also being engaged in by both parties for media attention and the media gets tired of the stunt. I figure she has a sign up sheet for 3 month photo op engagement opportunities at this point.

I honestly doubt Madonna makes any of these guys do anything but play up for the camera. I doubt she’d even let them eat off her silverware. Madonna has probably tried to pay one or two to go media about being sexually used and abused by granny, but no takers so far.

Exactly. She's just hiring these young men to massage her ego and pretend that she's still sexually desirable to them.

Whereas old men are genuinely sexually interested in the young women they chase.