Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

[AnOminous]

Viv made a thread about Millie earlier today. Tl;dr is that her episodes are coming eventually and she totally has personality traits outside of being Moxxie's wife you guys we're just not being fair.

Lmao is she literally reading this thread or is this just a uniform criticism everywhere?

 

[The Fair Lady]

Lmao is she literally reading this thread or is this just a uniform criticism everywhere?

It's no big shock that this is the general consensus. Millie simply sucks. Claiming she has personality by being excitable/spunky/close with her family is grasping at straws when those traits are so vastly outweighed by how she revolves around Moxxie. The only time we've seen her without him is in Truth Seekers when she's alone with Loona for a while - against her will, at that - and desperate to get back to her husband. Those who like her say it's because she's "sweet and badass" and their reasoning never goes any deeper than that, because it frankly can't. That's how you know you have a flat character.

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

Viv made a thread about Millie earlier today. Tl;dr is that her episodes are coming eventually and she totally has personality traits outside of being Moxxie's wife you guys we're just not being fair.
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https://twitter.com/VivziePop/status/1635001106874114049?s=20

Lmao is she literally reading this thread or is this just a uniform criticism everywhere?

The Just Stop video I posted earlier had that as a criticism (and also, the fact that the same could be applied to Loona/Blitzo and Octavia/Stolas, to a lesser extent). Basically what @The Fair Lady said.

 

[The Nothingness]

Blitz, Moxxie and Loona come from pain and trauma but it doesn't take away that Millie doesn't.

...but I feel some want or expect is for her to have some tragic/dramatic story like the others and I just don't think a character NEEDS that angst to be compelling.

If one of the supposed leaked episodes will show Millie almost become an hero, I call bullshit.

 

[Sparkling Yuzu]

you just HAD to ruin the one straight paring on your show huh viv?

Viv is probably a fujo and progressive so heterosexuality offends her.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

Lmao is she literally reading this thread or is this just a uniform criticism everywhere?

It's a common criticism about Millie.

Viv made a thread about Millie earlier today. Tl;dr is that her episodes are coming eventually and she totally has personality traits outside of being Moxxie's wife you guys we're just not being fair.
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https://twitter.com/VivziePop/status/1635001106874114049?s=20

Only positive thing is hopefully they listen to feedback about this and actually improve. That's the most generous take given she made that thread.

 

[Seventh Star]

Another character with a golden tooth is lazy design, just sayin.

 

[Jormungand]

Lmao is she literally reading this thread or is this just a uniform criticism everywhere?

Viv made a thread about Millie earlier today. Tl;dr is that her episodes are coming eventually and she totally has personality traits outside of being Moxxie's wife you guys we're just not being fair.
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https://twitter.com/VivziePop/status/1635001106874114049?s=20

The more I've read of Vizipop's excuses for her characters, the more it confirms how bad of a writer she is.

Part of the problem with Millie is not just that her defining trait is that she's Moxxie's wife. It's that she's s a boring character and doesn't add anything else to show.
Millie only really has a dynamic with her husband, and only with her husband. When she's with other characters, such as Blitz or Loona, she adds nothing other than slide remarks, and thus Millie just comes off as flat, which is pretty bad when the cast is meant to play off each other.
What makes this even more humourous is that Vizipop claims to develop her character in the future, and yet she had an entire first season to do that.
She even has an episode introducing her family. Yet, Moxxie, her husband, gets more screen time and development than her in that very episode.

Also, when Vizipop "She has a past of violence." it's not as grand of a statement as she thinks it is, considering the entire cast lives in Hell.
The place that's notorious for being violent beyond imagination and having jobs where they kill humans for demons residing in Hell.
What exactly makes Millie special compared to the rest of the cast if your answer is, "She's a strong independent woman." Congratulations, you're only making her more boring than she already is.

And no, Vizi, telling us how "deep she really is" in the podcast will not convince us or your audience.
You have to show us how good of a character Millie is within your show, or in other words, show, don't tell, and when Vizi struggles to do this with her female character in Helluva Boss, Heaven helps how she'll handle the character in Helluva Boss.

Lmao is she literally reading this thread or is this just a uniform criticism everywhere?

To answer your question, yes and yes.

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

You have to show us how good of a character Millie is within your show, or in other words, show, don't tell, and when Vizi struggles to do this with her female character in Helluva Boss, Heaven helps how she'll handle the character in Hazbin Hotel.

Fixed it.

 

[AnOminous]

Edit: you just HAD to ruin the one straight paring on your show huh viv?

His coffee order in Truth Seekers more or less obliterated any possibility of his complete heterosexuality.

You have to show us how good of a character Millie is within your show, or in other words, show, don't tell, and when Vizi struggles to do this with her female character in Helluva Boss, Heaven helps how she'll handle the character in Helluva Boss.

I think she can probably handle characters that are basically self-inserts (like Charlie or, well, Deerie), but she's that sort of weird alpha female who is terrible at relating to other women. All the other females in this show have been cutouts, including Stella.

I don't think she's actually a terrible writer, she just has glaring flaws. I can cope with them.

Still, really loved this episode, the animation is getting smoother, too. The backgrounds were generally consistent even during fight scenes, Millie is great as far as animation, and I love seeing her go berserk, just needs more characterization.

Also Moxxie's dad should have been more intimidating.

 

[Sparkling Yuzu]

His coffee order in Truth Seekers more or less obliterated any possibility of his complete heterosexuality.

I kind of liked it that he was presumably a feminine straight guy before this ep... they all gotta be queer now.

 

[AnOminous]

I kind of liked it that he was presumably a feminine straight guy before this ep... they all gotta be queer now.

Maybe. . .but that illusion should have been shattered when he admitted he let Millie peg him. . .sometimes.

 

[Dumbchan]

Millie just seems to be there because of Moxie, and I can't figure out any episodes that she's in, that would make a difference if she wasn't involved in them.

This episode opened more interests regarding Moxie and Millie became his savior. But beyond the fact she always seems to save Moxie, she has no redeeming qualities so far. Vivziepop had to make a thread on Millie just to get the criticism to ease up.

I just hope Moxie's girl boss wife finally fleshes out soon.

Edit: I'm half asleep writing this, so apologies if my English sounds broken.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

Viv made a thread about Millie earlier today. Tl;dr is that her episodes are coming eventually and she totally has personality traits outside of being Moxxie's wife you guys we're just not being fair.
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https://twitter.com/VivziePop/status/1635001106874114049?s=20

Viv if you have to make a thread full out explaining Millie's personality and her relationship to other characters, then the problem relies on YOU for not providing any of this info in the actual show. You didn't even add anything new in that long explanation that we didnt already know about her. You can't act surprise that people think Millie is underdeveloped and bland because YOU decided to not focus on one of your main characters. The fact that you have to say "Hey, there will be an episode focused on Millie later on" after all this time, just shows how terrible you are at planning out a story.

People don't think Millie is underdeveloped because she doesn't have a "sad, sappy, dramatic backstory". (Believe me, we don't need any more of that.) People think Millie is underdeveloped because all she is as a character is a badass killing machine that loves her husband. She has nothing else to her. Everything about her relies solely on her husband and that's it. On her own, she's just there.

Also, love that strange explanation on Helluva Boss being focused on the men, and Hazbin Hotel being focused on the women, even though we know more about the male characters than the female in Hazbin as well.

 

[AnOminous]

Millie just seems to be there because of Moxie, and I can't figure out any episodes that she's in, that would make a difference if she wasn't involved in them.

I mean other than the fact that he'd die if she weren't because she saved his ass.

Vivziepop had to make a thread on Millie just to get the criticism to ease up.

Give her time. Many show runners wouldn't have even acknowledged there was an issue.

 

[Vyse Inglebard]

I mean other than the fact that he'd die if she weren't because she saved his ass.

And we're right back to square one:

People think Millie is underdeveloped because all she is as a character is a badass killing machine that loves her husband.

Give her time. Many show runners wouldn't have even acknowledged there was an issue.

She's had plenty of time, though. Like others ITT have said, Viv had a whole season to develop Millie, and yet she did jack shit with her. In fact, hot take:

Millie is to Helluva what Cameron is to Zoophobia: a character who has tons of untapped potential, which doesn't get explored because outside of the one character trait (Cameron's being that she's afraid of animals), she's just.....there. Which in Cameron's case, was even more egregious because she was supposed to be the main fucking character. This is why, if your work has an overarching story, you plan that story out in advance, nigger. Vivienne just seems to....make up shit as she goes along. Now, that'd be fine if she were somebody like Chris Seavor or Tolkein, but, in case it weren't obvious, she ain't even on Seavor's level. Hell, even if she wrote like, a basic outline, like, "OK in Season 1, this, this, and this needs to happen, this in Season 2", etc., I'm sure we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[InJailOutSoon]

Recently just saw what Crimson looked like from one of the artist's animatic of the episode....

Why is it that the concept art of episodes always look so much better and more interesting than the final product? Crimson here looks like an actual intimidating, grown man who means business. He looks powerful and imposing; an actual threat that you don't want to get on their bad side. Instead we get...

Moxxie 2.0....

 

[Lord of the Large Pants]

Why is it that the concept art of episodes always look so much better and more interesting than the final product?

Often because concept art uses complicated, detailed still shots that have to be simplified for animation.

 

[Seventh Star]

Often because concept art uses complicated, detailed still shots that have to be simplified for animation.

Suckers should use stick figures if they want to simplify that much. Or revive the Clock Crew.

 

[AnOminous]

Now, that'd be fine if she were somebody like Chris Seavor or Tolkein, but, in case it weren't obvious, she ain't even on Seavor's level.

The comparison to Tolkien is weird, because if anything, he had the opposite flaw of nothing happening that wasn't absurdly planned out in advance, and the Silmarillion and the million or so unpublished pages of his world-building vastly outnumber the pages that were actually published.

Arguably, going that direction makes your work even more boring.

I think the main problem is she can't seem to decide whether this should be mainly episodic or have persistent story arcs. That's hardly unique to Vivz, that's a sort of schizophrenia that exists in modern Western animation generally.

Recently just saw what Crimson looked like from one of the artist's animatic of the episode....

They really needed a Brando voice for Crimson. He could have looked exactly like Moxxie but fat. (And MOXXIE IS NOT FAT.)

I'm honestly not sure why Moxxie looking like his dad is weird. That's, like, something that happens. I mean if the guy you called dad when you were growing up was actually your father.

Millie is to Helluva what Cameron is to Zoophobia:

Who? There was an Applejack Cameron in Zoophobia?