Ukrainian Defensive War against the Russian Invasion - Mark IV: The Partitioning of Discussion

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

@cybertoaster Which makes me question how did anyone accept Russia's supposed fears of being invaded by NATO and that they needed Ukraine to defend themselves despite having nuclear deterrent, it's asinine. It's just one of their justifications, but it's among the most prevalent.

I still don't think anyone is going to use nuclear weapons, no one wants to be that guy because consequences are unpredictable. It's one of the reasons the West was apprehensive regarding doing anything regarding Russia's trip to Crimea and all that followed.
Which doesn't jive with the idea that they want a war with Russia, considering they've been doing everything to avoid exactly that.

 

[CuzinEd]

@Ghostse

The T-55 is a "better than nothing"
As others said, other than the fact its thirsty the T-55 can still mount a gun that while it won't take out a MBT it wouldnt' be fun to get shot by and would take out an IFV. My assumption is that they'll be deploying them along the line to shore up defenses and prevent another Khariv. They won't be able to hold the line, but their presence will make hit-and-run raiding more difficult and if Ukraine pulls another armroed thrust in a place Russia isn't ready, they might be able to buy Russia some valuable time to respond.

Of course a lot of this really depends on Russia actually responding like a competent modern military and not in the way they've been doing.

I imagine the Russians will do what they did with the T-62's. Send them to the front lines and Ukrainians will either destroy them or capture them. I saw a picture of a captured T-62M. It's a T-62 with an added laser ranger finder and some bolt on armor. Vatniggers will claim they won't be used on the frontlines till pictures of captured and wrecked T-55's start appearing. The T-55's are going to catch hell though. It's basically a 36 ton coffin. Having to refuel and rearm them is going take a lot of time and resources. It seems like it will cost more than it's worth.

From what I understand conservative opinion has shifted away. Went from 6% against at the start to now it's 46%. I believe DeSantis and Trump have both also talked about wanting to cut aid. Either way, Russian influence ops are probably going to go hard on the "we're giving Ukraine too much" meme come the primaries and election and there's a good chance it'll be effective enough to make it a partisan issue.

Most people in the US don't really care. It's not that they don't care about Ukraine and Ukrainians. They just have more important things to worry about. The US is in economic decline. Wages are falling or stagnant. Most people are concerned with how they will pay their rent buy food or get a decent paying job, which are really hard to find. Inflation isn't helping this. If someone said they would cut aid to Ukraine off completely you won't see a huge uproar about it. It's a not war the US is directly involved in. The Russians didn't invade the US. A lot of people weren't happy with the invasion of Afghanistan and that was about going after the terrorists that did 9/11. People still didn't like that.

I'm a Trump supporter. If Trump said he was going to cut Ukraine off. I would still vote for him. Not because he said he was going to stop supporting Ukraine. But for his other stances on issues. Like I have said many times. Even if the US did stop supporting Ukraine it doesn't mean things would really change for Russia. They would still have sanctions on them, and Ukraine would still be full of weapons. The US ending support for Ukraine isn't going to give Russia back all the men and equipment they have lost. It won't magically transport the Russians to Kyiv either.

All the Twitterati with Ukrainian flags in their bios have some powerful weapons. They can point to destroyed Russian tanks, major Russian defeats, and multiple economic/political crisis within Russia.

It's not like Afghan, where various warlords are pocketing the cash meant to help the national girls robotics team compete in international competitions.

The Ukrainians are delivering. Plenty of dead Russian soldiers, lots of video of Russian tanks brewing up. A Ukrainian president who can put on a proper press conference and give the international media what they want.

Ukraine is winning, and the west hasn't backed a winner in a long time.

That's partly because of the training and assistance Ukraine has received and also Russian incompetence has helped a lot. This has been pretty bad. Most people thought Russia would manage to accomplish what it set out to do. Take Kyiv/Kiev and either capture or kill Zelensky. Zelensky probably would have fled.

The US was successful in Afghanistan in the 80's. Russian incompetence played a role in that as well.

The seeds were already sown with allowing retarded trannies to run banks into the ground, now anyone with any money (including Britain) is paying for stuff in alternative currencies to teh dollars; Rupees, Yuan etc.

No one is using Rupees or Yuan for anything. Well, that's not true. India bought some oil from Russia in Rupees. I should say the Russians paid the Indians to buy their oil. That's basically what happened. China would love it if people started using the Yuan. But that won't be happening anytime soon. Most transactions are done in dollars and Euros. Mostly dollars.

God, can you imagine the clusterfuck that would follow if the British let the Russians have India? I doubt the Russians understood logistics back then any better than they do now and they lacked the ability to supply their forces over multiple oceans like the British did. Jesus, they didn't even have trains back when The Great Game was a major feature of geopolitics.

The Russians have always had terrible logistics. They depend on trains for supplying their army. Without the rail lines they can't do this. Back in the Cold war they had rail lines they could use stretching all the way to East Germany. Now they no longer have that. They can't supply their army 90 miles away from their own border.

what is that explosion? the tanks own ammunition going off in the fire?

It's the ammo inside the tank. It's called a cook off. The ammo is cooking off. Usually what happens is whatever hit the tank penetrated the armor and his a propellant casing and that detonated it and the other rounds it was next to. The more ammo in the tank the bigger the cook off. That's what causes Russian tank turrets to fly so high in the air. Russian tanks use autoloaders. At least the T-64 and newer tanks do. The ammo is stowed in the tank a special way for the autoloader which makes a round getting hit even more likely. It can happen with any tank. But the autoloader carousell doesn't help. Western tanks usually don't have this issue. At least the ones that entered service in the mid 80's. Like the M1 Leo 2 and Challenger series. They have blowout panels and compartments for the ammo.

But hatches can be blown open or off when ammo cooks off in a tank. If there is any crew inside, they can be blown out of the hatches. I saw it happen in a video from Syria.

equipment with 3 conscripted young men in it.

the glee at which the prog element in the west froths at the mouth with literal bloodlust at the mere prospect that a man might die because he is ill-equipped, just because they are russian, really is staggering. it's a sort of jingoistic frenzy that I was led to believe my entire life is an old, antiquated, and undesirable trait only found in shithole authoritarian countries like Russia.

Even in the height of the anti-terrorism frenzy in the US after 9/11, people were proud of the US military, not necessarily wanting to see mangled raghead bodies. In this instance, it's kind of a proxy war, so you can't really be like "GOD DAMN THE UKRAINIANS ARE SO FUCKING AWESOME THEY ARE LIKE COSSAKS N SHEET."

He covers that issue here. He is well aware of what is happening. Just like in all wars Putin is sending poor people off to die. Go die for my ego trip peasant.

because ragheads are pee oh cee
it didn't take long after 9/11 until the "oy vey don't be islamophobic!" narrative started kicking in. not in the initial stages of afghanistan, but by the time iraq rolled around, it was already going strong.
russians on the other hand are toxic white males, so there's no restrictions on hating them

Germans as well. It was ok to kill Germans. The Soviets encouraged rape. But I think the Russians are kind of getting punished for what they did to the Germans under their occupation and Eastern Europe now.

@Null:

> T-14: dosen't fucking exists, no, THIS SHIT ISN'T EXISTING AS A MTB, they have so-called prototypes and pre-serial produced ones for make some testing. Something like Enterprise (OV-101) a partially functional mookup, but not a orbiter.
> sperg over internets: sperging about T-14.

I think Russia might have 24 of them, supposedly. But seeing as how the Russians have lied in the past about what they have and don't have you really can't believe that.

Counterpoint: Coach Redpill and spergs like Airmchair Warlord and Scott Ritter make it very easy to be Anti Zigger.

Coach Redpill AKA Gonzalo Lira is a moron. Scott Ritter is also a dumb ass. I don't know about Armchair Warlord but I suspect given he hangs around with the other two he is also a retard. Birds of a feather flock together.

Maybe if it was completely unfounded, but it's not. Zelensky is president.


I disagree and believe my opinion will be validated in the passage of time. They are not harmless silly people. They are rot. Tooth decay is causus belli for tooth extraction. "But 90% of the tooth is fine!". Doesn't matter, the nerve is exposed.

You can always get a filling.

this is all true
but i don't see russia waging war on trannies and niggers and jews
instead they're waging war against one of the most white and most nationalist countries in europe, while explicitly declaring that their goal is 'denazification'
they are not trying to fight the rot, they are trying to compete with the rot to see who can kill the patient faster

Putin sounded just like a Western blue haired looney when he was talking about denazification of Ukraine. The Russians are just as Boomer tier as the West about the Nazis and WW2. If not worse.

That would work if it wasnt because russia still has nukes. Its surprising how people still forget how this almost 80-year weapon its a total gamechanger, an ace-in-the-hole, which is why tons of countries rushed to get one until the NPT went into effect. The moment it looks like he's actually gonna lose this putin can just nuke most of ukraine, nobody is gonna nuke him back and risk further escalation, and for him its better to be a pariah king than no king or worse, be hanged.

Had ukraine been allowed to keep their soviet nukes none of this would've happened, ukraine might have even got rid of the russian yoke all the way back in the 90's.

Putin isn't going to use nukes anywhere. Using nukes would not go over well.

The allegory about France is retarded because France is not the embodiment of evil like the US/NATO is.

NATO is a defensive alliance and always has been. It has never been about attacking Russia. It was to be used to defend against a Soviet invasion. Russians just whine about NATO because it keeps them from enslaving their Eastern European neighbors. It's a like a bully whining because someone stopped them from beating up some kid. Now the bully is telling everyone how the kid was a threat to them.

Russia cries out in pain as it strikes its Eastern European neighbors.

 

[Pork Packer]

So yes, a dispute if they are still USSRians who are trying to influence USA is very on-topic. Null maybye makes too much spergy about trannies, but investigating if the trannies are or aren't influenced by USSRians is vital no matter what you think about trannies.

Frankly I am extremely fucking doubtful of this, as russia has long had a habit of massively overestimating its ability to influence the western public by gayops and the like, to the point where its main gameplan for the west in the twilight of the cold war was to bet on a latter day wannabe hippy movement making it go full peacenik and accordingly offered extremely unsubtle "covert" support and sometimes straight up overt support to fringe organisations ignored or reviled by the actual western public

Even at the nadir of hippy shit and leftist wannabe revolutionary shit in the 60s and 70s, the USSR was little more than a vanity prop for image obsessed western far leftists to praise and visit in order to show how edgy and important they were, and the moment china broke away they flipped like a burger patty and jumped on that bandwagon, and they did precisely fuck all to further any revolution when they returned home beyond grifting as before, with the soviet higher ups desperately awaiting the day all the influence they thought they had now gained would pay off

Or to put it in brief, the USSR was played for griftbux by the very same faux leftists it planned on using as agents of influence, and this was at its fucking apex

I still don't think anyone is going to use nuclear weapons, no one wants to be that guy because consequences are unpredictable.

And furthermore, nobody wants to be the guy who gets immediately assfucked to death on camera by a series of rusty bayonets by his entire inner circle and served to the west to try and prevent everyone's retirement dachas they funded using T-14 funds being vaporised in escalation

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

Frankly I am extremely fucking doubtful of this, as russia has long had a habit of massively overestimating its ability to influence the western public by gayops and the like, to the point where its main gameplan for the west in the twilight of the cold war was to bet on a latter day wannabe hippy movement making it go full peacenik and accordingly offered extremely unsubtle "covert" support and sometimes straight up overt support to fringe organisations ignored or reviled by the actual western public

Even at the nadir of hippy shit and leftist wannabe revolutionary shit in the 60s and 70s, the USSR was little more than a vanity prop for image obsessed western far leftists to praise and visit in order to show how edgy and important they were, and the moment china broke away they flipped like a burger patty and jumped on that bandwagon, and they did precisely fuck all to further any revolution when they returned home beyond grifting as before, with the soviet higher ups desperately awaiting the day all the influence they thought they had now gained would pay off

Or to put it in brief, the USSR was played for griftbux by the very same faux leftists it planned on using as agents of influence, and this was at its fucking apex

Kremlin would absolutely do everything in their power to support the rot in the West rather than combat it, shocking I know (pretty sure they were caught supporting all kinds of activisim in US). They don't give a shit, because they consider you an enemy.
It's not about values and ideals, it never was.

 

[Pork Packer]

Kremlin would absolutely do everything in their power to support the rot in the West rather than combat it, shocking I know (pretty sure they were caught supporting all kinds of activisim in US). They don't give a shit, because they consider you an enemy.
It's not about values and ideals, it never was.

Oh they would.....but they wouldnt be very good at it, and their activity would be lost in the bigger picture of douchebag extremist theatrics that arose entirely independent of them

Exhibit A: Black Hammer
Exhibit B: The CPI
Exhibit C: Scott Ritter

 

[Ghostse]

this guy's smug ass slurring alcoholic voice makes me wish a t-14 would crash through his room and mangle him into the treads

it's very hard to justify not supporting russia when these are the people you end up in the same group without. it's like saying "I don't support the war" and then a British troon personally hugs you and kisses you on the cheek with blue and yellow lipstick that leaves a mark on your face in the shape of a cock

No opinion is so right that it won't be held by the wrong people.

equipment with 3 conscripted young men in it.

the glee at which the prog element in the west froths at the mouth with literal bloodlust at the mere prospect that a man might die because he is ill-equipped, just because they are russian, really is staggering. it's a sort of jingoistic frenzy that I was led to believe my entire life is an old, antiquated, and undesirable trait only found in shithole authoritarian countries like Russia.

Even in the height of the anti-terrorism frenzy in the US after 9/11, people were proud of the US military, not necessarily wanting to see mangled raghead bodies. In this instance, it's kind of a proxy war, so you can't really be like "GOD DAMN THE UKRAINIANS ARE SO FUCKING AWESOME THEY ARE LIKE COSSAKS N SHEET."

Russia could unilaterally stop this at any time by withdrawing their troops from a foreign country.

oh no culdronbros...
View attachment 4883265
Link | Archive

Just two more weeks!

Please this is just a feint by rush to ensure the another 50 million hohols and polish tranny mercenaries die in DA CULRON

 

[DumbDude43]

Null, those trannies and commie faggots you hate and that have constantly been fucking with you while being given voice in media were empowered and funded by the USSR.

Absolute cope. If you want to say that the wave of prog comes from Soviet Union era espionage that is a deliberate attempt to destabilize the US, go for it. But the reality of our situation now is that the USSR has been dead for longer than I've fucking been alive, and these policies are from the top-down in the US. If prog is meant to destabilize the US, it's doing a bad job. For all the woke bullshit in the armed forces, we are still the only superpower, and even trying to bring up China as a threat solicits uproarious laughter from everyone.

You can spin this to be about the soviet boogieman if you really want to cling to your post-war boomer philosophy and pretend we're still fighting the good fight. However, that's for your peace of mind, not for addressing the realities of the modern day.

both are correct.
the forces that wield power in the US today are an offshoot of the same root that gave rise to the soviet takeover in russia a hundred years ago. 'jewish bolshevism' and 'rootless cosmopolitans' were not just empty propaganda slogans, both were (and are) real forces that took different approaches towards achieving the same long term goal of establishing a materialist and internationalist world order. and when push came to shove, they did in fact end up putting their differences aside and openly worked together to destroy the one power that tried to challenge and fight against this shared goal of theirs.

 

[teriyakiburns]

I'm just baffled at the amount of baseless Russophilia among Western right-wingers.

The grass is always greener. It's as simple as that.

The American right wing is intimately familiar with all the ways their own nation is fucking up, making their lives increasingly miserable with retarded decisions, and seemingly acting out of no interest except world domination. They fantasise about a place where they can live the way they want and project it onto Russia, because Russia's own retarded decisions don't affect them, at least not obviously and immediately. The see selected highlights of "based" Russia doing the things they want to do and don't see all the in-between bullshit; the oppression, the complete lack of civil rights, the destructive culture and social philosophies, the corruption that makes American corruption look small and lame, or the complete lack of internal stability. Never mind the ethnic diversity that far outstrips anything in the US. It's Paris syndrome, scaled up to an entire continent and infinitely worse in its outcomes.

The American left suffers the same problem from a different direction. The number of hard lefties (self-proclaimed communists) who simp for Putin is... I would say insane, but it's entirely what I'd expect from Tankies. Distant, unfamiliar land that claims to be fighting nazis and carving out new peoples republics for the minorities those nasty jewish nazis oppressed.

They all ignore the fact that Russia is a country where children who support peace are sent to jail.

 

[Pork Packer]

The grass is always greener. It's as simple as that.

The American right wing is intimately familiar with all the ways their own nation is fucking up, making their lives increasingly miserable with retarded decisions, and seemingly acting out of no interest except world domination. They fantasise about a place where they can live the way they want and project it onto Russia, because Russia's own retarded decisions don't affect them, at least not obviously and immediately. The see selected highlights of "based" Russia doing the things they want to do and don't see all the in-between bullshit; the oppression, the complete lack of civil rights, the destructive culture and social philosophies, the corruption that makes American corruption look small and lame, or the complete lack of internal stability. Never mind the ethnic diversity that far outstrips anything in the US. It's Paris syndrome, scaled up to an entire continent and infinitely worse in its outcomes.

The American left suffers the same problem from a different direction. The number of hard lefties (self-proclaimed communists) who simp for Putin is... I would say insane, but it's entirely what I'd expect from Tankies. Distant, unfamiliar land that claims to be fighting nazis and carving out new peoples republics for the minorities those nasty jewish nazis oppressed.

They all ignore the fact that Russia is a country where children who support peace are sent to jail.

TLDR: Me not wanting to get freaky with a chick who has herpes doesn't mean I want to go balls deep assfucking a pig with AIDs just because it doesnt also have herpes

 

[teriyakiburns]

TLDR: Me not wanting to get freaky with a chick who has herpes doesn't mean I want to go balls deep assfucking a pig with AIDs just because it doesnt also have herpes

Exactly. The idea that we only have this binary, exclusive choice is bullshit. It's a trick. There is always another path.

 

[GoPro]

Why? What ties to Russia do you have? I just can't shake the feeling you're like that weeaboo soyjack from the "Place - Place, Japan" meme. A Russiaboo, you could say.

I'm not trying to insult you. I'm just baffled at the amount of baseless Russophilia among Western right-wingers. And it is baseless - none of them would last a year in Russia. There was a funny story in 2016 - a German family with nine kids moved to Russia because of "degenerate German sex education lessons" their kids were forced to attend. They got themselves a house in the Siberian countryside and planned to open a farm. /pol/ loved this, dozens parroted how they would also move to "based, Christian, white Russia" soon. Two months passed, and the family returned back to Germany, never to be heard from again.

Null probably spent too much time in Serbia and local attitudes are rubbing off on him.

As to rightwingers, they are desperately latching onto anything that stands up to degenerate west. Russia was presenting itself as one such entity so they latched onto it without much thought. It also had the appeal to techminded people of offering a safe haven from western tech's regulations on things like offending troons and dodgining copyrights. Too bad that is only a facade. In reality, Russia is worse than the west overall, more centralized, and more draconian. That's a shame. Russia (and the world) would be better off if it truly offered a viable alternative to the west. Offering tech services to people who upset American big tech and government could actually let Russia coast by and maybe even help its technology industry. All while undermining the west at the same time and bolstering its own reputation.
But that did not happen since Russia can never play nice with neighbors and retain stable relations without others being completely subservient to Moscow. Even if they are, they have to walk on eggshells constantly to not hurt Kremlin's feelings and getting punished for it.

 

[Ghostse]

Pretty sure the nbiggest change to western demographics happened before they had any kind of power, and given the backpedaling already taking place regarding muhimmigration (which in and of itself was largely motivated by a desire to ship in low pay serfs to work the proverbial fields) which is unlikely to be reversed any time soon I am somewhat doubtful of the latest iteration of white genocide. Besides, europe withstood multiple forcy-fun-time romps from the east via the huns, magyars, mongols, and soviets without being cursed to demographic death so I doubt this weakazz shit will go far

I'd counter your point with this:
In 1823 the population of Egypt was less than the population of London.
In 2023 the population of Egypt is greater than the population of the UK.
Absorption used to work because due to western advances there were more people in major european cities than in entire kingdoms/countries.

Thanks to exporting those advances there are now more subhuman apes than people. This isn't an option anymore - there is more of them and they keep making more.

I'd say maybe Pol Pot was worse, but you're talking about about a small shithole country killing its own people. The Soviet Union was bad, but it was limited to Eastern Europe. The worst thing the Soviet Union accomplished was with the direct help and assistance of the US and UK, or the Allies (led by the US) which became the UN (led by the US) and NATO (led by the US). I will refer to the United States and her property (which includes all members of NATO) as just the US, because the other countries are irrelevant and conquered vassals. However, when I refer to the US, know that I refer to its owners, not its residents.

Do you realize that all the orgs that promote or used to to promote the shit you're raging about were funded by Soviet "Communist Pride World Wide" agiprop organizations?

the USSR has been dead for longer than I've fucking been alive,

This is the absolute cope.
WHo is in charge in Russia? How much of the top brass is the exact same fuckers who held power in the Soviet days?
The only thing the USSR breakup changed is that Russia started accepting trading money and the countries that had their culture destroyed and repressed by Commohomo removed that.

Anyway, do you think Zelensky would be honoring National Day of the Tranny if he wasn't dependent on the West for weapons to expel invaders from the country?

What would be the downside to Russia just evacing all the Donbros to Russia, stopping hostilities and returning to Russia? Do you believe that if pitched this idea wouldn't get 100% eurocuck backing? All the Russians are safe from Nazis & Globohomo, isn't that what Putin says he wants?

 

[cybertoaster]

All they have to do is walk away. Just walk away.

They can't, by which I mean their leadership can't.

What most in the west don't understand about russian (and also chinese) culture is this:

You can't lose face.

Here in the west after the massive fiasco that was the war on terror, what changed? nothing, nobody went to prison, not the politicians that voted for it, not the glowies who falsified the info, not the journos that promoted the propaganda. In better times they would at least lost their jobs but we don't even get that anymore.

So our government can just walk away of any of fuckup whenever the overton window shifts, but not the russians.

The russian people will tolerate insane corruption, ineptitude and even famine, but the moment the leaders lose face its over, not just because of national pride but because it means the leadership can be killed and replaced, it give the people an opening. Its akin to the ancient chinese concept of "mandate of heaven", in that if you lose it you're fucked, you can't be the emperor anymore and your entire government if not your entire dynasty was over.

Russia offers absolutely nothing to the west

It does, or it would've if boomers with a grudge hadn't fucked up the capitalist transition after '91. Any analyst with an IQ above room temp knew after '89 that china would be the next problem and that unlike the ussr they were going to be an economic superpower because they were not really communist anymore, so their growth would not be limited to whatever the price of oil was and their population would no longer face another of mao's famines while the soviets had to deal with scarcity all the way to the end of the ussr itself. After the tanks rolled into tiananmen in '89 only those with their heads up their asses still believed china was going to become a liberal democracy, it was even more obvious when despite the weak-ass blockade we put in place was subverted by, of all countries, taiwan which wanted some of that cheap ass chinese slave labor, thus showing china could keep its insane growth levels no matter how many students got smeared on the streets.

Had we played our cards right and let bygones be bygones russia would be west-aligned, europe would be completely energy-independent from the middle east, we would've access to insane mineral wealth, and more importantly the russians would shift their military focus to the far east to protect their territories from china which has never let its irredentism of getting back that land from russia, something that again any analyst worth a fuck is well aware of. In this scenario russia would act as a giant nuclear buffer on the west while our pacific fleet keeps the chinese at bay in the east, we would have beijing by the balls.

Instead we let russia crumble, we helped keep that fucking joke yeltsin in power by hijacking their elections, we let him fuckup over and over because of the economic opportunities the firesale of soviet assets could be to our corporations. Joke is on us tho because the former communist apparatchiks took all of that and became the oligarchs who then created putin, ain't that a bitch?

The end goal of this apparatus is to form a one-world government that can never be destroyed.

Any empire eventually crumbles from the corruption and rot within...........but now there's AI which can keep any shitshow going with maximum efficiency as long as its not limited by political bullshit like chatGPT is.

Which is why we're investing such insane amounts of money on it.

Worse than Stalin/Mao killing between 30-50 million of their own people?
Worse than pol pot doing his best to exterminate most of his own people?
Worse than the death cult empire known as the Aztecs?

Keep in mind null said worse for us, not for them.

I perfectly understand someone in your situation detesting the west in general, but to say the US/NATO is the most evil thing ever is a tad over exaggerating.

Its not if you were/are at the receiving end of our guns, like say the iraqis, the serbians, half of LATAM, north vietnam, etc...

They are already striking inside ruzzia

Now you're doing the same shit vatniks do.

and I really don't know why Putin will make a more issue after shelling some town in ruzzia than shelling some town in annexed parts of Ukraine.

But belgorod is not moscow, the moment muscovites start dying his power base will be affect and calling for revenge.

He can't afford to ignore that, he can't afford to lose face like that.

Also Ukraine probably have zero nuclear warheads

It has zero, and no means to make more.

We made sure of that in 1993, enough with the cope.

I still don't think anyone is going to use nuclear weapons, no one wants to be that guy because consequences are unpredictable

Putin isn't going to use nukes anywhere. Using nukes would not go over well.

Thing is putin doesn't know what's gonna happen if he uses nukes but he knows that if he doesn't and he loses the war because of that then its over, for him and for his entire circle.

At the same time he knows, and we know, that if ukraine gets nuked the exchange ends there because nobody will get nuked for ukraine, period. We might push sanctions to the limit and start and even bigger cold war with insane levels of defense spending, but we're not letting our entire nation burn to cinders for ukraine.

 

[teriyakiburns]

At the same time he knows, and we know, that if ukraine gets nuked the exchange ends there because nobody will get nuked for ukraine, period.

I disagree. The power of nukes is almost entirely in not using them, or committing totally. They're a threat of absolute destruction. If Putin uses them in Ukraine, then the west will have no choice but to destroy Putin in turn. It will be clear to all involved that he will use nukes irrationally to get his way, which means that his use of them against the west will, at that point, be inevitable; a question of when, not if. The only rational response from the west will be the absolute destruction of the Russian state, in order to prevent further use of nukes against the west.

 

[No. 7 cat]

this guy's smug ass slurring alcoholic voice makes me wish a t-14 would crash through his room and mangle him into the treads

it's very hard to justify not supporting russia when these are the people you end up in the same group without. it's like saying "I don't support the war" and then a British troon personally hugs you and kisses you on the cheek with blue and yellow lipstick that leaves a mark on your face in the shape of a cock

The T-14 is basically vaporware with a some unreliable proof of concepts, one of which broke down in Red Square. I'm not sure it's even worthwhile calling it crap, but the vid works enough for its mockery of the shit which is Putinism.

And Euromaidan was the overthrow of a wretchedly corrupt puppet now hiding somewhere in Russia. His palaces and car collection are lost to him. Anyhow, Ukrainians don't want to be poor like anyone living in a state or pseudo-state in the moskal orbit.

You seem to this burger thing of being unable to see anything outside America except in terms of US culture wars which are really a TPTB distraction. Troons off themselves and don't really matter in the overall scheme of things. The country that has over centuries brought misery to its neighbors (and costarter of WW2 by jointly invading Poland) invaded Ukraine. That RT fag (RU lang chief ed) who sperged about drowning Ukrainian children was triggered by them apparently stating a plausible idea that Ukraine would be as rich as France (or at least Poland) were it not for Russia.

Today in Ukraine we're celebrating the Day of the National Guard. I'm proud to wear the patch of one of the most elite units of the NGU since 2015, the 4th Rapid Response Brigade "Rubizh"/"The Frontier" of Hostomel, serving together with the bravest sons and daughters of Ukraine! Eternal glory to my fallen friends who will go down in history as heroes and defenders of the Free World.

source

Interview with a German combat engineering fighting in Ukraine seeing it as possibly useful if it has thermal imaging and / or it is used supporting indirect fire. Many Russia friendly countries have them in service and can perhaps send ammo to Russia.

 

[cybertoaster]

I disagree. The power of nukes is almost entirely in not using them, or committing totally.

That's when the other side has nukes, when it doesn't then its a shooting range unless somebody else steps in.

Example: the only reason why we didn't nuke n.korea during the war like macarthur wanted was because the soviets got the bomb in 1949 and we knew they had forces there. And needless to say that's the same reason why we didn't nuke vietnam.

The reason israel didn't nuke other syria and egypt during the yom kippur war was because the soviets made it clear they would then nuke israel, and they had way more nukes too.

The reason the brits didn't nuke argentina during the falklands war was because reagan stepped in since the cold war was getting really fucking hot at the time and the soviets depended on argentine grain imports to keep their people feed after the embargoes due to the invasion of afghanistan.

Without those factors those non-nuclear countries would've been nuked.

If Putin uses them in Ukraine, then the west will have no choice but to destroy Putin in turn.

Why? ukraine is not part of nato or the EU, it has no economic importance or is an strategic asset like taiwan or japan.

Seriously, give me any reason why we should burn to avenge an already burned ukraine.

The only rational response from the west will be the absolute destruction of the Russian state, in order to prevent further use of nukes against the west.

Again, pointless, the russians use of nukes against ukraine would be solely because they know ukraine can't answer in kind, but they know we can which is why they have never even threaten to pre-emptively nuke us.

Is like nobody here fucking understands how MAD works, here's a hint: the M stands for MUTUAL, as in "the other side has to have nukes for this to work".

 

[teriyakiburns]

Why?

You cut out the part where I explained why and then ask me why? Come on, man.

 

[delerious?]

I disagree. The power of nukes is almost entirely in not using them, or committing totally. They're a threat of absolute destruction. If Putin uses them in Ukraine, then the west will have no choice but to destroy Putin in turn. It will be clear to all involved that he will use nukes irrationally to get his way, which means that his use of them against the west will, at that point, be inevitable; a question of when, not if. The only rational response from the west will be the absolute destruction of the Russian state, in order to prevent further use of nukes against the west.

If nukes were to be used in ukraine it would not only be the west turning heel to russia, but every country in the world bar north korea. China would be happy to destroy russia and occupy the russian far east.

 

[Astro Galactic Megalul]

@cybertoaster
The "other side" is backed by US and Europe now. If you think they're just going stand aside as Russia burns down millions in nuclear fire and turns their backyard into a radioactive wasteland, you're sorely mistaken. Russia knows that too.
It's probably the only reason Putin is still alive, the moment he reaches for that button, all bets are off.

 

[Chaos Theorist]

So which side will give in first at this point?