Legend of Zelda thread - Lorefags GTFO!

I enjoyed Spirit Tracks arguably more than Phantom Hourglass, because it was a refinement. Repeatedly visiting the Temple of the Ocean King and making more progress while getting stronger was fun, but the disconnected dungeon sealing away Maladus was also nice. The main difference is using Zelda to control the phantoms; the DS' touch screen was ideal for this. Linebeck was a great character. I rented Spirit Tracks from GameStop by beating a used copy within the week and then returning it.
Yeah, TOTK really felt more like a DLC of BOTW than an actual, fully designed sequel; doesn't help that, judging from how past games operated, that a lot of the notable stuff from the past few games like the Sheikah tech, the Champions, the Zonai, etc., is just going to get dropped in favor of new stuff in the future. Some of it is pretty cool, admittedly.
I think the Yiga Clan will be the lasting legacy of these games, storywise. It's impressive how badly TOTK retroactively fucked BOTW's story. The Sheikah were used to such good effect, only for everything they built to be removed without a trace for no reason and with no explanation. The Zonai were dropped in without explanation purely to replace them, with almost identical aesthetics, because the writer obviously hated them or something, and then the writer made them the reason for everything, for good measure.

Three goddesses? Heh, say hello to the goddess Hylia.
The goddess Hylia? Heh, say hello to the Zonai.
The Zonai? Heh, say hello to ...
 
God please just give us a traditional Zelda game. I am so tired of open world.
Haven't you heard what the Redditors have been saying? The games before BotW were outdated and bad game design and nobody liked them, and Breath of the Wild is what Zelda 1 was anyway.

People who say that have obviously never played Zelda 1, and I just find the term 'outdated game design' to be retarded, there is bad game design but not outdated. Outdated implies something can be designed wrong, which isn't really a thing, again, there is bad design, but you can't really say something is designed wrong.
 
God please just give us a traditional Zelda game. I am so tired of open world.
That's definitely not going to happen, at least not for the 3D games, not for a while. Open world is unfortunately here to stay.

On paper I don't mind it anyway, it's actually a good thing as long as they bring back stuff like traditional dungeons and actually fill the empty game world with actual content. Now's a great time for Nintendo to make another Wind Waker type game.
 
On paper I don't mind it anyway, it's actually a good thing as long as they bring back stuff like traditional dungeons and actually fill the empty game world with actual content. Now's a great time to for Nintendo to make another Wind Waker type game.
Nintendo should have seriously taken notes from Monolithsoft for open world design. They got them to do the field design for BotW and it shows with the flow of the world when you aren't climbing or flying over everything. Monolith still worked on TotK, but not the main Xenoblade team that got borrowed for BotW, and I think it shows with how the world has no sense of flow (outside of the leftover botw stuff). Of course all of this is pointless when the game gives you the ability to climb and surface and to fly over everything right away, I hope they get rid of climbing and the paraglider in the inevitable next botw sequel.

Monolith's worlds flow so well its such a breath of fresh air. Xenoblade 3's story DLC has really enjoyable exploration that is also based around filling up a percentage, but its based on finding landmarks, hidden locations, crafting spots, harvest spots, loot chests, enemy catalogues, collectable catalogues (they finally brought the collectopedia back from X), unique monsters, and of course side quests, and all of this is tracked in a handy dandy menu for each type, and all of it hooks into the level up system, awarding points used to upgrade your party members. You also use the collected items from enemies and exploration for upgrading your equipment. All of this in just a 15-25 hour DLC expansion.

Xenoblade X has just as good level design for true open world, with it being designed around paths that you go through multiple times a playthrough, each time more equipped to explore further. You start out level gated by enemy placement, letting you explore one layer of the world, but there are places you can't reach, then you go back through with a Skell and you can access higher level areas and locations that were physically blocked, but you still can't explore the highest places, then at the end of the game you get a flight module and you can explore everything, gaining access to new locations even in the low level starting area. All of this with the exploration rewards that the 3 DLC has and exploring the world is fun and flows really well. If Breath of the Wild gated climbing like the Skell, and then gated the paraglider like the flight module, then you would have to explore the game on foot, then return and access the areas out of reach before, and then finally your reward for exploring the world horizontally and vertically is to fly over it all, but that would be restricting the player, which is a big no no to open air design.

I think the great plateau sort of fulfilled this, but they still let you climb stuff, and once you figure that out it becomes super simple. My first time through before I knew climbing was OP was really enjoyable, using the environment and it sort of felt like a survival game. I wish they leaned into survival aspects, master mode makes it harder and it sort of feels survival ish, but after the plateau it just becomes bullet sponge bullshit monsters, not true difficulty.

This should fulfill my legally obligated Monolith dicksucking for a while.
 
God please just give us a traditional Zelda game. I am so tired of open world.

Dialing it back might be a good idea, I agree; having a large, open world with plenty to explore is good, but sometimes having a bit of direction and focus is the better option.

I enjoyed Spirit Tracks arguably more than Phantom Hourglass, because it was a refinement. Repeatedly visiting the Temple of the Ocean King and making more progress while getting stronger was fun, but the disconnected dungeon sealing away Maladus was also nice. The main difference is using Zelda to control the phantoms; the DS' touch screen was ideal for this. Linebeck was a great character. I rented Spirit Tracks from GameStop by beating a used copy within the week and then returning it.

Can agree; Spirit Tracks did feel good to play.

I think the Yiga Clan will be the lasting legacy of these games, storywise. It's impressive how badly TOTK retroactively fucked BOTW's story. The Sheikah were used to such good effect, only for everything they built to be removed without a trace for no reason and with no explanation. The Zonai were dropped in without explanation purely to replace them, with almost identical aesthetics, because the writer obviously hated them or something, and then the writer made them the reason for everything, for good measure.

Another agree; this is honestly one of my bigger complaints about TOTK's story. Seriously, seeing how ALL of the Sheikah tech just magically vanish in favor of the Zonai stuff - when said Zonai tech wasn't even a thing in the original game - feels like a gigantic, blatant waste, not to mention a rather crappy retcon. Hell, most of TOTK was just Retcon: the Game, with BOTW's whole story getting absolutely fucked to make way for TOTK's stuff; I admit, I wasn't exactly fond of the Champions being completely dropped in TOTK with little fanfare, and the Zonai being this super special race that had all of this advanced tech just feels forced, honestly. Same with the whole "draconification" thing, which raises a LOT of plot holes; that and the Zonai suddenly being this hyper-advanced race whose king married a Hylian woman makes me think that there's a few furries on the dev team. Also, where's Kass?

That all being said; I really do hope that the devs end up developing some of the stuff in TOTK in the future; I would like to see more of the Zonai stuff get properly developed, and I am very interested in the Ancient Hero in particular - a Zonai incarnation of Link? Wouldn't mind reading more about him, at least. It's kinda unlikely that the devs will do anything with it, but it's nice to speculate.

Three goddesses? Heh, say hello to the goddess Hylia.
The goddess Hylia? Heh, say hello to the Zonai.
The Zonai? Heh, say hello to ...

...my little friend?
 
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It will be interesting to see how the series grows in the next installments, especially given just how popular BOTW and TOTK are, even with all the complaints we've brought up.

While I am an oddball here in preferring the new approach over the old, I am in agreement that some shake-ups and returns to some of the older mechanics would be nice. I was okay with TOTK being more of the same, but they can't just do that forever, lest it also begin to get tired.
 
I kind of doubt if they can actually pull off an open-world Zelda game without it being flawed in some manner. But who knows, the next one will probably be as structured like TP, or it'll allow you to chose which order you can do some of the dungeons in. Or maybe it'll just be an overpriced top-down adventure.
 
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People who say that have obviously never played Zelda 1,
Yeah, I get into so many arguments with people about this, because unlike them I *have* played Zelda 1 and there's no way you can call it an open-world game, any more than any other game you can break with speedrunner strats. By that logic Final Fantasy IV is an open-world game.

That said, Zelda I does represent what I wish the whole series was more like--its not open, but it does represent a sort of middle ground. the classic Zelda structure always annoys me with, for example, how it will place a blatantly visible heart piece somewhere you can't get to until you come back with an item you don't get until way later in the game. I hate that shit. I see the thing, let me get it NOW. Or at least make it some clever puzzle I could solve. The way the series usually works, these are basically just a glorified locked door that you need the key for.

BOTW though I feel goes too far the other extreme, to the point where when I play it, it becomes a "getting autistically sidetracked" simulator. In a game like LOZ1 or Dragon Warrior the point of sequence breaking is to give you an advantage when you go to take on the main challenge, but with BOTW it kinda feels like the only thing worth doing is the shrines and maybe 100 or so Korok Seeds, otherwise you might as well just do the Divine Beast quests--and I'm up in the air over which is best to do first: the Rito one or the Zora one.

My biggest problem is just, there's not a POINT to most of the open world. You collect tons of plants, bugs, apples, etc that you're never ever gonna need that you're only holding on to because "I might find some niche use for this later" (spoiler: you won't) or the game distracts you with a falling star you can collect which is used for I-Still-Don't-Know-What. At least with the dragons, you get something telling you what they're about before you go hunting them. Or at least I did.

I actually had a lot of backseat game designer thoughts about BOTW, maybe I'll compile and post them later.
 
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What was I saying about people claiming 'outdated game design' earlier? God this annoys me.

All these people that love BotW/TotK haven't played a Zelda game before it, so they now call themselves Zelda fans but don't actually like Zelda games.
 
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What was I saying about people claiming 'outdated game design' earlier? God this annoys me.

All these people that love BotW/TotK haven't played a Zelda game before it, so they now call themselves Zelda fans but don't actually like Zelda games.
Might have something to do with people claiming that they have really bad attention spans, nowadays. Remember how people were getting filtered by some of the puzzles in TOTK? That shit will become an thing by the time the next Zelda game gets announced
 
These people just want sandboxes, and freedom, and "experiences", the idea of actually playing a game with intentional design is a foreign concept to Minecraft-raised zoomers.

That's fine but to pretend aimless exploration is the ultimate evolution of gaming instead of just one way to design things is retarded.
 
I do wonder how they could implement larger and more dungeons while retaining the freedom and emergent gameplay mechanics of BOTW and TOTK. And I’m one of the weirdos here who enjoys those games’ style more than the older ones.
 
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