Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

[Husk of a Man]

Episode 3 was more of the same, middle of the road.
Episode 4 was surprisingly good.
It's definitely a mixed feeling. So far, the show has done better than my expectations, but it is by no means a masterpiece.

 

[Tablet County]

I was looking for a video I wanted to post in another thread and this happened:

I don't think they did Youtube, I don't think they did.

 

[Doctor of Autism]

Episode 3 was just okay, too many new characters, and the songs were at their worst here. Respectless felt forced, and the other song really is weird to hear especially since Vaggie's singing voice is decent but her voice acting is pretty bad. If this is the same person, it really can show how being a good singer doesn't make one a good actor. Sir Pentious is probably the best character here.

Episode 4 felt really tone deaf, Poison was not only a bad song, but it felt weird to have a musical number like that during a porn shoot, could be fine if it was Angel's mind to cope, but it doesn't work. Especially later feels weird when Alastor is basically compared to Val when its very obvious the former is being set up as a good guy later on with the leaks which just feel more and more true with each episode. Though Val actually worked as intimidating here.

 

[Space Monkey Mafia]

I rewatched the pilot before I started on the show since people are so quick to upload it elsewhere.

I did really enjoy the pilot. I thought the voices suited the characters, a lot of the jokes were actually pretty good, the songs were woven in fine with the story, the animation was really neat in a lot of areas, and the idea was interesting.

I can't believe what a massive nosedive in quality absolutely every aspect of this show took. The complete character change of Charlie took me off guard. In the pilot she's like the Disney princess of Hell, but she's not stupid like she is now in the show.

The voice acting is so awful it sounds like people did an unprofessional fan dub. Even though I have a lot of respect for Keith David, he's nowhere near as good of a fit for Husk as the original guy was. I loved original Katie Killjoy; a male VA doesn't match her one bit.

Animation is just plain primitive looking and the songs derail episodes; they feel completely forced. I'm also with everyone in going "Yikes" with how Husk is treating Angel's beatings and sexual abuse.

 

[Charnel Ground]

I've followed vivziepop's drama on and off in the western animation threads on lolcow.farm, glad to see that she's getting more attention here because holy shit she is a neverending vortex of drama.

I was ALMOST interested Hazbin/Helluva for a hot microsecond when I first heard of them just for being western animation with maximalist, somewhat original, vaguely 90s CN influenced, non-beanmouth art. Once you start to see the characters in quantity though it's all SO overdesigned and gets to be so same-y. Then when they get put in settings and start moving it looks so terribly blah because there's no composition that moves your eye around the frame nor any focal point for your eye to rest. There's so much hot topic bs going on it might as well be gray sludge because nothing stands out. When everything is hellish nothing is hellish.

And then we get to the writing where we have the same problem: If everything is a fuck word, nothing is a fuck word. If everything is a twisted sex joke, nothing is a twisted sex joke.

It's so maximalist in every way it's completely maxxed out.

 

[The Demon Pimp of Razgriz]

Their explanation of the casting out of Satan is literally non canon. They couldn't even do research as to what that faggot did to get cast out. He wanted to be fucking king, above God. The book (bible) was better

Its the classic Promethean interpretation of Lucifer, where his act of encouraging mankind to eat of the fruit of knowledge is reinterpreted as something closer to how Prometheus gave man fire; a divine being sacrificing his own divine position to allow man to advance and become independent of God (or the gods, in Prometheus case). However, this is a completely wrong interpretation. Lucifer was lifted up in pride and lead an active rebellion against God, causing himself and one third of all the angels to fall (interestingly, Hazbin's explanation completely overlooks this, implying that Satan was the only angel to fall, and is thus the only fallen angel in hell). Also, its generally believed that the fall happened prior to Lucifer entering the Garden of Eden, not afterward. Lucifer (who is specifically identified with the serpent in the Garden of Eden) caused mankind to eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil specifically to separate them from God and corrupt them. The tree of knowledge didn't allow man to advance and create civilization; they already had that capability. It made them aware of sin and introduced sin into the world. Thus, they were corrupted into becoming sinful beings who commit immorality and violence. It had nothing to do with mankind becoming able to advance as a species.

This is a common reinterpretation of the story of Lucifer's fall, and it doesn't surprise me at all that Vivian went with this. It's already been made clear that she was going to portray heaven as not being much better than Earth and Hell, and this story that Charlie reads paints heaven in a very poor light. What would be interesting is if it turns out that the story that Charlie read was a lie, and the truth is closer to the Biblical version, and one of the things she finds out over the course of the story is that her father led a petty rebellion out of pride against God, and was cast out for his trouble, and the events of the Garden of Eden were just a petty attempt to spite God. But I doubt Viz is going in that direction.

Another thing I noticed is how God himself is never mentioned in Charlie's recounting of events. Its even portrayed like it was the angels that actually created the Earth, rather than God directly. Is Vivian going to say that there is a Heaven, hell, Satan, and angels, but no God?

 

[I_Am_Not_Bruce_Willis]

Tim Pool has made a video on the first episode, this is not a drill, repeat, this is not a drill

One can only imagine how hard culture warrior YTers are gonna go on this. Top-friccin-kek!

 

[AnOminous]

Unless it proves only the gay go to hell which would be quite hilarious

No wonder they don't want to reform and go to Heaven when Hell is a giant gay bar/S&M dungeon.

 

[Alter Ego]

Watched both episodes now, and the main thing I'll say that it's underwhelming compared to both the pilot and the whole of HB, despite how critical I was just being of that show. Some quick points to go through:

Pros:

• No gay shit (yet). Unless the premiered 3rd episode has more to show, the Twitter fan was just talking bullshit with the ships she was gushing about amounting to characters just talking to each other. It's unfortunately not going to last, but Husk for now detests Angel and his flirtations.
• Maybe I'm not paying enough attention to the exact lines, but this seems much less "written by Viv" than HB regarding sheer profanity,
• Adam and Vox are entertaining new characters with good songs.
• I like Nifty.

Cons:

• Awful introduction to the main cast, the Hell setting, and the premise of the hotel with much of it being "told" rather than "shown", these two episodes rather concerned primarily with introducing new antagonists. Feels like the pilot is required viewing (and seemingly just about all still canonized as an event from the prior week), which is unfortunate to new viewers since A24/Amazon will obviously not provide or give direction to it.
• Definitely a downgrade in animation, giving me the impression that this professional production was done much more cheaply than Viv's own YouTube content. This seems to result in a lot of the scenes amounting to fairly static conversations in rooms. The scuffle that happens in episode 2 is laughable compared to what HB accomplishes.
• Partly because of the point above, characters we've seen before in the pilot now appear less lively and exciting, particularly Alastor, Angel, and Sir Pentious.
• I just remarked before about how Hell was becoming increasingly benign through the duration of HB, but here in Hazbin it's now more plain than ever, given the limited viewing we have of it. Nowhere close to the level of chaos with vile inhabitants as portrayed in the pilot.
• Vaggie's new voice sucks. Katie Killjoy now sounds like a man.

Further Notes:

• The rumor about later twists now feels way more likely to be true, which is lame for Alastor.
• I really hope that introduction about Heaven and the creation myth is Satanic propaganda that Charlie just naively believes rather than hard facts for the audience. Combined with the apparent softening of Hell I mention above, it's really seeming that the show wants to get across its inhabitants in general as the poor and downtrodden wrongfully victimized by mean ol' elitist Heaven, a premise that annoys me.
• I guess that with the introduction of antagonistic angels right away, the trailer was correct in that the show is mainly about a conflict between Hell and Heaven rather than the commendable mission of the hotel concerning redemption, which is a shame.
• Even though Sir Pentious is apparently inducted into the main cast (which is good), I have an unfortunate feeling that we're hardly going to be seeing his Egg Boiz anymore.

Back again with thoughts on the new not-leaked episodes 3 & 4 before I'm too tainted by other people's opinions:

• I barely use Prime Video to know how it works, but it doesn't appear to me that Amazon has high hopes for Hazbin when I can't find it anywhere in the menu unless I explicitly text-search for it.
• I'm very much glad that Sir Pent still has some edge as a mad scientist. While I like his adorable side the same as everyone else, I would've been disappointed if that's all he was for the rest of the show. And hurray for the Egg Boiz getting to stay too, putting my previous fear to rest.
• I find myself getting used to Vaggie's new voice, though sometimes with the audio low it sounds like Charlie is calling her "faggie".
• As someone else said, the start of that first song is very startling.
• The second song just makes me dwell on the softening of Hell as we now have overlords getting fashioned to be downright admirable. At least Alastor still appears nefarious.
• What's up with Carmilla having daughters with her in Hell? Are they damned sinners too, or hellborn?
• Good God, how many characters are there with a sharp gold tooth?
• Oncoming gay ship besides, I hate this Husk as a smooth-talking sassy wiseman compared to the pilot's gravely-voiced disgruntled alcoholic. Now that he's talking much more, his Keith David voice is really distracting to me.
• Good work at establishing Val as a particularly imposing piece of shit, making up for his underwhelming introduction before.
• In light of the recent criticism Viv has been embroiled with, the whole visual accompaniment to the Poison song sure comes off as "sexy rape" to me. I expect those who originally complained about the short clip will now be a lot more pissed.
• There certainly is a bizarre attempt at equivocating Husk's plight with Angel's. Not only do we have no indication about what's been bad for Husk being in debt to Alastor, but there's also the point that Husk has likely been free of Alastor for seven years of absence.
• Now with a proper fight scene, it's really plain to see how the animation is lacking compared to Helluva.
• I wonder what has Amazon in a hurry to premiere multiple episodes each week yet not just release the whole season at once.
• I remain indifferent overall, though perhaps I'm ruining my own experience with the show by being overly analytical for the sake of discussion here rather than just watching for entertainment.

 

[poisonedapple]

Episode 3 was more of the same, middle of the road.
Episode 4 was surprisingly good.
It's definitely a mixed feeling. So far, the show has done better than my expectations, but it is by no means a masterpiece.

The third episode felt like a kid cartoon with some adult theme. The fourth episode felt like a genuine adult cartoon.

I think my biggest problem with this show is that concept has so much potential but fails heavily to reach it. Vivziepop needs a job were she sells show concepts to other people and they make the show instead. She's great at brainstorming but it ends there.

 

[poisonedapple]

Is Camilla supposed to be Vaggie's mom or something? Vaggie looks more like Camilla than the demons that call her mom.

 

[S@credC]

She's had roles in other animated media where she was a perfectly fine voice actress, but her performance as Vaggie is legitimately so bad that it's jarring. I'm going to chalk it up to poor direction and her being checked out.

The check must have cleared before she got in the recording booth.
Slightly dismayed that the great Keith David is attached to this, but I hope he at least got a good paycheck out of it.

No surprise the creator has a rape fetish-- my God I could practically hear her vibrator in the background of that song.

Not a surprise at all. I get "scares men away with her horny fat girl vibes" teas from her.

I think my biggest problem with this show is that concept has so much potential but fails heavily to reach it. Vivziepop needs a job were she sells show concepts to other people and they make the show instead. She's great at brainstorming but it ends there.

We have GPChat for that now. Viv is basically unemployable if she can't out-create what an AI bot can do.

 

[poisonedapple]

So it's pretty obvious that Angel, Charlie and Alastor are Vivziepop's self inserts. Episode 4 made a huge comparison to Angel's and Husk's situation. I doubt Vivziepop is going to make Alastor as sinister as Valentino but he clearly has the same kind of hold on Husk as Valentino has on Angel. Alastor is clearly one of her babies. I'm having a hard time articulating my thoughts. Basically can someone explain what's going on with Vivziepop's head. From my point of view it looks like she sees herself as a helpless sex-driven victim who is capable of great power and sadism while also is sweet and innocent.

 

[Unnecessary Surgery Land]

Also, female centric focused show my ass...HA. Nice one Viv.

It's absurd how little of the spotlight the supposed 'main' female characters get.

Every time one of the 'main' female characters starts talking they get interrupted by a male character and the story shifts entirely in the male character's direction. It keeps happening in every episode. I hope ANY character development changes that ASAP.

As I stated before, I truly believe many autistic teenage girls are going to watch this, see the female leads as bitchy/weak pushovers then find themselves 'kinning' the male characters. Then more pooners will be born, since that's the age we live in.

 

[poisonedapple]

It's absurd how little of the spotlight the supposed 'main' female characters get.

Every time one of the 'main' female characters starts talking they get interrupted by a male character and the story shifts entirely in the male character's direction. It keeps happening in every episode. I hope ANY character development changes that ASAP.

As I stated before, I truly believe many autistic teenage girls are going to watch this, see the female leads as bitchy/weak pushovers then find themselves 'kinning' the male characters. Then more pooners will be born, since that's the age we live in.

This show reminds me of how men used to write "girl power" shows but it highlighted how sexy and "empowered" women were in a male gaze kind of way.

 

[Dr. Ricearoni]

We're like 4 episodes in and Charlie's only role is to sit down and shut up when the men are talking. Is Viv trying to say something?

 

[Amber the Hedgehog]

In light of the recent criticism Viv has been embroiled with, the whole visual accompaniment to the Poison song sure comes off as "sexy rape" to me. I expect those who originally complained about the short clip will now be a lot more pissed.

It's kinda wierd because I think the rape was done well enough in Addicted. The music video has a very sexual feel to it but the rape isn't treated fetishized manner. Heck the sexy aspect is there for mood and pretty uncomfortable many ways because it's shown be unhealthy. It does help that overtly sexy moments happen before and after the rape.

First Angel is a sexy stripper who says his bad behavior with bad consequences doesn't matter while it's pretty clear between the lines that he's just trying to ignore his issues so he doesn't have to change. His future rapist is clearly targeting him because of this behavior makes Angel an easy target. Then we get a forsed kiss that implies rape off screen as the camera goes away to follow Cherri who is also trying to ignore her issues by being a pest. We see Angel in high distress afterwards and he goes on a sexy rampage as a revenge. Then we get reprice where Angel is forsed to admit that his coping methods aren't working and he might as well try something different because being a traumatized drug addict isn't fun.

I think this works pretty well. Rape is there for drama rather to have a rape and while important almost meaningless by itself. It's just another horrible consequence of Angel's high seeking behavior except this is the one he can't ignore. It doesn't really matter if it's because getting raped was extra horrible or just the final straw. The story needed something traumaticly bad to work and it need done in a way that stand out from him killing himself with his choices. He's already in hell and his hell needs to get worse before he's willing do something about it.

 

[AnOminous]

I think this works pretty well. Rape is there for drama rather to have a rape and while important almost meaningless by itself. It's just another horrible consequence of Angel's high seeking behavior except this is the one he can't ignore.

And ironically it's by someone who isn't Vivzie.

 

[Bridget]

OKAY THE SHOW ISN'T GREAT BUT I AM GOING TO DRAW PORN OF THESE TRAPS AND FEMBOYS.

 

[macrodegenerate]

View attachment 5647175

I don't understand why is there a heart and a cross. Do they cut your nipples off in hell? Is that some kind of wound dressing?