Hazbin Hotel / Helluva Boss Thread - Now a Griefing Thread

[Sparkling Yuzu]

has it been confirmed if sinner demons can reproduce once they're in Hell like how HB showed native-born demon can?

I read that they are sterile, unlike hellborn demons.

 

[Mister Baranavichy]

The theory about rushing everything to get axed after 1st season is fucking real.

It shouldn't be a theory at this point, the show is aimless, the characters feel like they are lost and just going along with everything that jumps onto their lap, the hotel itself is a meme, Adam is just an indescribable mystery that is either the manifestation of some writers abuse or fetish, the plot reveals feel worthless and heaven sounds like the most retarded place in existence run by literal stupid who's.

It's already been 5 months into the story from the first extermination lmao, and literally almost 0 has been achieved anywhere - The most that I see is Angel becoming a little more open and Husk willing to help, the rest have stagnated impressively.

 

[RedGermaine]

It shouldn't be a theory at this point, the show is aimless, the characters feel like they are lost and just going along with everything that jumps onto their lap, the hotel itself is a meme, Adam is just an indescribable mystery that is either the manifestation of some writers abuse or fetish, the plot reveals feel worthless and heaven sounds like the most retarded place in existence run by literal stupid who's.

It's already been 5 months into the story from the first extermination lmao, and literally almost 0 has been achieved anywhere - The most that I see is Angel becoming a little more open and Husk willing to help, the rest have stagnated impressively.

I'm expecting Ser Pentist to end up being the one to ascend to heaven and them just lampshading it

 

[Clorox Cowboy]

Romance with Vaggie and Charlie is actually established. It's established in the pilot. Remember the news anchor who "doesn't touch the gays?" Shes talking about Vaggie and Charlie. Personally prefer not having to deal with romance BS and having the characters start in a preexisting relationship. Though Vaggie is so unlikable I couldn't care less about the two of them as an actual couple.

 

[RedGermaine]

Romance with Vaggie and Charlie is actually established. It's established in the pilot. Remember the news anchor who "doesn't touch the gays?" Shes talking about Vaggie and Charlie. Personally prefer not having to deal with romance BS and having the characters start in a preexisting relationship. Though Vaggie is so unlikable I couldn't care less about the two of them as an actual couple.

So angels are made, not mortal souls moved to heaven. So why does she speak Spanish sometimes?

 

[TNF]

Watched episode 5 & 6 and can only agree with the others.

Spoiler

St. Peter also says "fuck", isn't it great? Why is Lucifer allowed to communicate with the higher ups of Heaven and they actually listen to his requests?

On the Vaggie not wanting to kill a "Sinner child". You would think them killing children would've been the first argument brought up, why the Exterminatation is morally wrong.

 

[Larry Trainor]

"Take that depression!!! (◐ ‿ ◑ )"

What age demographic is this show supposed to be targeting again?
I honestly can't tell if Lucifer is supposed to be a man who lost his way over time, a man whose mind has slowly eroded into a shell of what he once was, or just a bumbling idiot. Isn't he gonna be roughly like 5k years old or something? Why did he lock himself up to invent ducks and ignore the kid he clearly loves? He didn't know what she was doing when she told him about the hotel, but then he turns around and says, "I just don't want you to end up like me," as if that's supposed to be why he's kept distant. If he didn't even know what she was doing, how would he hold that opinion in the first place?

Spoiler: More

I'm also tired of all this "Alastor is sooooo strong!!" stuff. We keep getting told over and over again that he's all-powerful, but why? There are no stakes when we just see him kill literal who characters. It would've been better to see him in action and spar with a character we grow with. We know nothing about all these overlord characters with their power, personality, strengths, weaknesses, etc, but we're supposed to believe Alastor killed them all just because. Mimzy felt she was solely shoehorned in to flex Alastor's powers more. Is anyone else bothered by his "true demon form" being big with antlers and slenderman tendrils? You couldn't hire even one horror artist to pull off a form that would be unnerving?
--
Also, isn't it a bad thing that he is killing a bunch of people now? Didn't Charlie tell him to "humanely" eliminate the egg boys? That also means Alastor abides by the hotel's rules, right? It's wrong for him to brutally kill in that episode, but in this one, it's okay and defended by Charlie because they're being "attacked"? The lack of consistency is getting to me.
--
I liked Sera and Emily's designs, though. I wish we had more time to build on them. It's odd that Emily immediately turned on what seems to be her mother(??) to take the side of a stranger she never even knew existed. It would have had more of an impact if we could've followed her character more and been led on through subtle clues as to who she is and what she strives for, but she's not Yaoi bait, and she's an icky girl, so let's go back to Angel Dust and Alastor

 

[Escaped Abortion]

So angels are made, not mortal souls moved to heaven. So why does she speak Spanish sometimes?

Some angels are mortal souls. If your name is in the book you get to be reborn as an angel in the afterlife, and if not you are reborn as a demon in Hell. Adam was a mortal who is now an angel. Even if you were once mortal, you get lumped in with the local population's moniker, which is a little confusing. I don't think they should ever be calling Sinners demons, because Sinner is already a clearer descriptor. The angels who were once mortal don't have a sub-group from what I could tell in the show, but the trading card calls them "Winners" and that would do.

The Seraph are angels who were never mortals, but Adam was and Angeldust's sister, Molly, went to Heaven and is a background character in the "Welcome to Heaven" song, which also sings about how some souls make it. I guess it's just very disproportionate, which is why Heaven is scared. Maybe like 90% of souls go to Hell and 10% to Heaven. Although that kind of creates issues with how can people be content knowing their loved ones are suffering in Hell without a chance at redemption? You think that'd at least leave a seed of dissatisfaction and they'd be aware for decades they can't find the souls of their less successful friends and family.

I think it's kind of weird that Molly is a spider because her whole family were made spiders because they had a "web of crime..." So she's tainted enough by crime to also be a spider, but still goes to Heaven.

 

[A Grey Cat]

he is still engaging in sin due to the fact he is drinking tons of alcohol

Again Noah, guy who single handedly saved life on earth when God destroyed it the first time. Became a rampant drunk afterwards. Got so sauced he got naked in front of his own kids. And yet was still allowed into heaven. I get angel dust is still engaging in sodomy which God also destroyed two cities in the Bible for but going by the drinking thing if being a souse was punishable by eternal damnation no wonder the damn place is overflowing while heaven stays almost empty.

You would think them killing children would've been the first argument been brought up, why the Exterminatation is morally wrong.

Charlie: Hey you guys are not only allowing minors to end up in hell but you're killing them again permanently without a second thought. (Could have been a good time to bring up two camp counselors from your sister show one who was murdered the other for being an idiot simp)

 

[The Nothingness]

Here is a comedy sketch from over ten years ago that did a better job of depicting who will go to Heaven or Hell as a palate cleanser.

 

[Smity Werbenjagermanjensen]

I think it's kind of weird that Molly is a spider because her whole family were made spiders because they had a "web of crime..." So she's tainted enough by crime to also be a spider, but still goes to Heaven.

Watch the reveal be that who gets into Heaven or Hell be completely and totally random, either a coinflip on one's death or something destined the moment someone is born, probably to do with the Root of Evil crap. John Wayne Gacy and Ted Bundy are probably chilling out somewhere in Heaven while Jeffery Dahmer got the short end of the stick.

 

[Seafarer]

Noah became a sauced up deadbeat after the whole ark debacle, lot offered his kids up to the faggots of Sodom in exchange for not fucking the angels staying with him, there's plenty of people in the Bible who aren't the so called holier than us symbols religion tends to show them as.

The Bible is essentially a collection of stories wherein imperfect and sinful people attempt to measure up to a perfect and sinless god.

King David, considered one of the greatest men in the Bible, committed adultery with another man’s wife, got her pregnant, then conspired to have that man killed. God calls him out on this and even though David genuinely repents, he is still punished by having his unborn son die.

The way I’ve heard it described by a Christian is that everyone is inherently sinful and evil and really deserves to go to hell, but it is by the mercy of a God who was willing to die for us that people are allowed to be saved.

Romance with Vaggie and Charlie is actually established. It's established in the pilot. Remember the news anchor who "doesn't touch the gays?" Shes talking about Vaggie and Charlie. Personally prefer not having to deal with romance BS and having the characters start in a preexisting relationship. Though Vaggie is so unlikable I couldn't care less about the two of them as an actual couple.

Yeah the Vaggie-Charlie relationship always seemed to be more like a friendship to me, and I wouldn’t be surprised if that was what it was originally intended to be (iirc Vaggie was originally shipped with Angel Dust) but Viv wanted quick and easy woke points, plus cutting out criticism that her show is homophobic because all the gay couples are portrayed as toxic and abusive (like Val and Angel).

 

[Escaped Abortion]

Watch the reveal be that who gets into Heaven or Hell be completely and totally random, either a coinflip on one's death or something destined the moment someone is born, probably to do with the Root of Evil crap. John Wayne Gacy and Ted Bundy are probably chilling out somewhere in Heaven while Jeffery Dahmer got the short end of the stick.

Predestination would be an interesting twist on things. Or maybe they could go with "Well, God only made 144,000 residences in Heaven, so out of the billions of humans who live, we are hard capped at that level."

I'm a bit surprised though, that angels would be allowed to hurt each other, if they view making it as such a meaningful status. It doesn't seem like Adam should have had the authority to harm Vaggie, since he was only granted permission to cull sinners. He'd still be going against God's (?) plan by rejudging her.

Disgaea dealt with that better, and still let angels' commitment to order fuck everything up for everyone most of the time.

 

[ReceiveAndAsk]

My biggest takeaway us that the writing is atrocious. Every episode has a big, 'emotional' moment, but when you literally introduce that character in the same episode or have zero buildup, it falls flat every time.

Like, we're supposed to care that Charlie is flabbergasted that Vaggie was actually an exterminator, but there is zero exploration of their relationship other than 'they're a couple, that's all you need to know'.

Viv really can't write female characters or write a character that isn't defined by their daddy or relationship issues, that's for sure.

Oh and on a final note, the highlight of the show are the songs. They're just plain fun. Some of the cast are really great singers and put their everything in the singing.

 

[The handsome tard]

This series really needed an audience surrogate, aka, a newcomer of Hell that is completely freaked out that not only he is in Hell but he is unrecognizable from his human self (they never explore how fucked that must be, to look at your own reflection and see you are not how you remembered anymore).

I have decided to add more to the "Sanny" concept but if you need a recap

Spoiler: Recap

Lets call him "Sanny" (as in "sinner"). He just landed in Hell, freaks out, probably gets run off by a car (kind like in the opening of the pilot) and slowly and painfully recovers in an ally. Sanny gets out, looks himself in a mirror and is horrified. He asks around where he is and some annoyed bystander just straight up tells him he is in Hell.

"As in, damnation?"
"Total damnation"
"Fire and brimstone? Eternal suffering?!"
"Its not so bad. You get used to it. Or you know, you dont, doesnt fucking matter. Welcome aboard, fag."
"NO! THIS IS A MISTAKE! YOU GOT THE WRONG GUY! I DONT BELONG HERE!!"
"Buaah buaaaah! Keep crying, soon this place will give you a reason to cry about...watch your ass and I mean that literally, Hell is worse-"
"Worse?"

The demon falls dead with an arrow on his back, Sanny looks and see angels coming down, the extermination had begun. Sanny survives with pure luck and because some angels took more pleasure in harder game...Sanny was just too easy. When it seems he is about to get killed by one, while pleading to God for mercy, a bell rings, signifying the end of the extermination. The angel looks down at him and tells him it will meet him "next time" before flying away. We just see Hell in bloody ruins while these beings of light disappear into the skies.

Sanny just looks up in religious horror...until a demon comes out of the trashcan nearby and mocks him for having pissed himself. He just watches everyone leaving their shelters and just resuming their day like nothing happened. He asks around what the hell was that and one of them just explains the extermination happened and for him to get used to it...

"Is there anyone in here not fucking insane?!"

Sanny just roams the streets of Hell, just thinking that this isnt the Hell he imagined and read about it.

"Its like if California fully embraced Satanism instead of just partially...tho it smells a tiny bit better...urgh, only a bit."

But why he was here? He says he did everything right. What else he didnt do? And sending him here was really a fitting punishment? He just begins to lose hope and just sits against the wall, in total misery. He looks at the pentagon on the sky and prays to God to give him another chance, he doesnt know what he did to piss him off but if he gives him one last chance to leave, he will take it. When he is done, he sees some demons watching some TV inside a store and this is where Sanny sees Charlie's segment in the news. He didnt catch everything but he did catch the parts about redemption and leaving Hell and NOT being exterminated...so he knows he has to partake in this.

The pilot goes the same except Sanny enters in before Alastor and he is the one that asks who is he (since the pilot just kind of shrugs off Angel somehow not knowing who he is). Charlie is just glad to have someone that actually WANTS redemption.

"Oh I want redemption, so much. In fact, I shouldnt even be here. So all in all, my stay here should be relatively short. So, what we do? Do I gotta say some magic spell or pledge my soul to God or something?"

And its clear that there is no official way out of there, they just gotta keep experimenting and trying.

"Thats fantastic. For real, it is. I mean, look at me. I spent my whole life doing good deeds, turns out, 'oops, that wasnt enough' and get sent here after a death that I still cant recall how it went down and then Im told there is a way out and NOW I am told that there technically isnt! This really is Hell because I feel a whole lot MISERABLE right fucking now!"

Charlies tell him that is the path of redemption isnt suppose be easy...If it was easy, Hell wouldnt have much of a population. Who knows, if he is ready to take the first path, he may be the first one to cross that finish line and others will follow. And worst case scenario, assuming there isnt, then at least he will be among friends in there. Sanny actually shares a small smile and decides to stick around.

Really feels like Sanny would give more credit to Charlie's plan because she found a demon that legit wants to redeem himself and get into Heaven. Also I imagined Sanny is the "funny coward that slowly learns to be brave" type of character, with also there being the ambiguity if he really deserves to be here or if this somehow was a fuck up from Heaven. It leaves intrigue brought over by this newcomer.

That was my take, give me her budget now so I can Snoot Game this.

Spoiler: Part 1

And here is the addition to my take. I will separate it in two parts. Part 1 will be in this post. Part 2 will be in a future one.

Design wise, I imagine Sanny has a bit of a fly routine, with large expressive eyes and 4/6 arms. He learns he can spit acid early on(tho isnt that of a fly's), the twist is that it burns his mouth too a bit when he does it so its a last resort attack. He can climb on walls and ceiling. Now, yes, he has wings but they barely support his weight so he can barely stay on the air for more than a few seconds, much to the joy of other demons ready to mock him for it.

As for plot, Sanny is a semi-recurrent character, he is usually the focus of Charlie's "redemption practice classes", which he isnt that invested in because what she teaches is basic things for anyone with any sort of morality.

"I know Im suppose to help the cat off the tree and give it a pet. I know Im suppose to help the old lady across the street! I know Im suppose to donate my money to charity, even tho I know it doesnt go anywhere! Or that using drugs is wrong. Or that cheating on a test is wrong. Or that I shouldnt have debauchery sex! ALL of these are basic things! For all I know I DIED A VIRGIN!"

He hears Angel Dust chuckling

"I heard that, you cum bucket!"

Angel and Sanny just argue harder and harder with Charlie trying to politely disarm the situation. Alastor just watches his an entertained grin.

"Oh excuse me Im angry at Hell's bicycle!! HE DIDNT EVEN WANT TO GET BETTER!"

It does seem that both sides have calmed down until Angel says he is just mad because he went to Hell and didnt get to enjoy any of the forbidden fruit, he is that much of a fuck up.

Sanny snaps and leaps at him, causing them both to roll down the stairs. They stop once they crash into the ground and Nifty just dusts off their heads because of the mess they made.

It cuts to Sanny in his room, staring at the wall, probably with a poster saying "You are doing great" on it. Charlie enters with a bit of a somber face and he apologizes, he lost control. She says its a bit her fault too, expecting that he and Angel could at least stand being near each other.

"Its that, you know, he deserves to be here. I dont!"

Charlie is confused on what he means

"Charlie, come on, think with me here. You think someone like Angel Dust will ever change? No. He was a bad person on Earth and Hell motivates him to stay the same, tho this time without needing to worry about STDs."

He is queit for a second

"There are not STDs in Hell, right?"

She sighs and says that, yeah, maybe he is right. Angel may be a lost cause. But what makes Sanny so sure he isnt one himself?

"Of course Im not a lost cause. I mean, uhh, I did everything right! I went to church, followed the law, adopted puppies, treated people with reasonable respect."

Charlie cuts him, asking if calling Angel a "cum bucket" was his way of being respectful

Sanny is quiet.

"I guess not. He started it tho!"

She agrees Angel was wrong to provoke him but Sanny just gave in to the desire to fight back so easily. He didnt even try to politely tell Angel to stop

"Look. Im in Hell, okay? HELL! And there is a chance if Im not out of here in like, a year, I may be exterminated. And who knows where Im going after that...probably nowhere...just...pitch blackness...No other side. Thats it. And then everyone here is a crazy asshole, I mean, except for you and Veggie I guess. It just...hurts...and Im miserable...and very afraid."

He just lays on his bed, on his side, holding his face.

"Im so afraid...that Im a lost cause too. Like Alastor said."

She gently pets his head and reassures him he isnt. Maybe no one is. He must give a chance to Angel Dust, be patient with him and who knows, he could show he is more than what he seems to be.

"Fine...Im sorry. I...I will do better. I know that I can." He sits up. "And I will!"

Charlies gives a small clap and says how thats the spirit.

Sanny laughs a bit, before being quiet for a second and clearing his throat

"So aww, no STDs down here, right?"

Next classes he tries to be less reactive. There are highs and lows, at least the latter are funny to watch...Sanny usually joins in on the plot of the episodes but his presence isnt always a requirement as it can be assumed he is busy with his own things when not present. He brings a human perspective and contrast between what he was taught of Hell and to what he is actually seeing...and how it ocassionally drives him insane, making him very unpredictable. He befriends some sinners in the hotel while growing serious disdain for others. I think it would be in the S1 finale where Sanny and maybe another sinner that he established a close friendship finally achieve "redemption".

They glow and float together towards the pentagram, holding hands. There are huge smiles on their faces aaaaaand
CRASH

Sunny falls down and lands smack dab on the rooftop of the hotel. Charlie and Co run over to check on him. He is all fucked up and seeing stars.

"Urggghh...hi, mom, I want a warm glass of milk! No cocaine this time...urrggh"

He passes out as there is the concerning implication that, somehow, he is irredeemable or that something is keeping him in Hell. The good news is that redemption was proven to be possible but the bad news is that Sanny is now seen as a pariah because they think he is just "so vile" he cant be redeemed. Even he begins to believe that and sucumbing into despair until Veggie of all people talks to him to remain strong against what others think of him and have faith in himself.

Sanny's final scene in S1 is him being in his room, staring at the ceiling, the "You are doing well" poster somehow having been moved up there now.

End of Part 1

I'd imagine this is being far more human and engaging than the high stakes already being thrown to us, with a hook of maybe bigger things to come but even then, nothing on the level of some conflict with Heaven.

Romance with Vaggie and Charlie is actually established. It's established in the pilot. Remember the news anchor who "doesn't touch the gays?" Shes talking about Vaggie and Charlie. Personally prefer not having to deal with romance BS and having the characters start in a preexisting relationship. Though Vaggie is so unlikable I couldn't care less about the two of them as an actual couple.

That line would work better if most of Hell's population wasnt gay so it came off as just confusing...

Its like if I said "I dont touch those that play video games" as if thats meant to be a sick burn? I dont know, the dialogue in this brand is freaking confusing.

 

[SubarashiiRage]

The Bible is essentially a collection of stories wherein imperfect and sinful people attempt to measure up to a perfect and sinless god.

King David, considered one of the greatest men in the Bible, committed adultery with another man’s wife, got her pregnant, then conspired to have that man killed. God calls him out on this and even though David genuinely repents, he is still punished by having his unborn son die.

The way I’ve heard it described by a Christian is that everyone is inherently sinful and evil and really deserves to go to hell, but it is by the mercy of a God who was willing to die for us that people are allowed to be saved.

Jalso, Jesus paid for the sins of all people since the time of original sin, everyone in the Old Testament was destined to carry this weight and would be condemned to compensate, some were saved but the majority remained in Hell, what Jesus did in the three days was to take all the souls in hell and returned to Heaven since the sins have been paid off, and after Christ what condemns you to hell are your own actions in life.

so Noah, Samson, David, etc were in hell until Christ's sacrifice, it is said in their stories of the promise of the Messiah that whoever follows the will of God will inherit the Kingdom of God but not immediately.

 

[doodoocaca]

An angel falls for being unwilling to kill a child in hell. Hell's princess takes her in showing more kindness than that which cast her out. Culture shock, betrayal, moral injury in the worst imaginable way?

Lucifer and Lilith's fucking daughter lezzing out with one of the bad guys while slumming it up?

Wow. There's potential here! Let's just gloss right over this because Vivz.

Rage edit: What a way to really show the main character's nature, be it what she thinks of herself, what she wants other people to think of her, and her actual true nature when out of sight, and it's just glossed the fuck over. Never mind the romance "pairing" between The Main Character and Her Paramour. Someone lost, completely helpless, and potentially hated by people in hell, if Vivz would have realized that word might get out that Vaggie was an angel, and we don't see how Charlie treats her.

Then there's developing Vaggie. lol. Kicked out for refusing to do something evil, and the heir to the throne of hell is showing you kindness, if not actively protecting you. How do you process that? How do you handle Hell being little more than LA/Vegas/San Bernardino all mixed up? How do you handle all of the above with the person who took you in either being two faced or actually as vapid as she has been so far?

How do you trip over such an obvious plot because you somehow can make characters and then go "nah" over and over and over?

How do you hang out with Brandon Rogers and not get called fat?

 

[geppeto's woodclock]

Verbal Ace himself addressed the topic on his YT channel.

The video was from 3 years ago, and he is still very much active with a very strong and established follower base. Looks like he felt shame over it but he's tough and powered through it.

Some claims that's he's bankrupt and had to stop out of shame/lack of money made here don't appear to be accurate.

 

[ReceiveAndAsk]

50k, you say?

 

[Bunny Tracks]

I'm gonna be honest here. I thought people were just exaggerating when they were saying the song Hell's Greatest Dad was clearly made to stop people from shipping Chalastor.

It wasn't until I actually listened to song, and heard Alastor deadass say that Charlie was "like the child that he wished that he had", that I in fact realized that they were indeed telling the truth, and that Viv was doing everything in her power to sink the ship.