Can't find a fucking job

[TETRABAX]

This despite the entire financial, insurance and other such industries relying almost completely on COBOL, a language that hardly gets any new devs now and the majority are retired or straight up dead.

Most of the value in a cobol dev these days is not to maintain the mainframes, but to figure out what they are doing (old cobol code is usually pretty hacky to reduce memory/database usage which would have been a limited resource in that era) so that it can be recreated in a more modern language/arch.

No need to PL just say which industry.

These days I do internal facing webapps for a large insurance company. I've also been working remote since COVID which wasn't a problem then when the offices were halfway across the country and is hard for them to change at this point given how many of their employees moved away from the expensive area their offices are in.

Does any one get the feeling like the US and western Europe is literally imploding and fake job numbers are being pumped to hide it? I refuse to believe all these PM and mid level manager positions are open for 3+ months when so many college grads are unemployed.

I think this has been proven that a lot of HR hiring managers keep the position offerings open to raise morale of the internal employees and fill those positions internally instead of hiring outside blood. Entry level though still needs outside resources though

 

[ArnoldPalmer]

As for the geek squad, not what I meant with "techies", anyway, never hired them because I didn't need them but the stories I heard were of rampant incompetence to say the least. Turns out they were actually good? and doing it for cheap?

Depends on what field they were in. Computer shit can be done by anyone for peanuts, and appliance delivery guys are a liability, but the ones who were in the home theatre department actually knew their shit and at least enough building code to not have to file constant insurance claims. The repair guys are the ones you actually want.

Sounds like an American problem, temps get 30% loading here, it's way better than going permanent.

It's not a problem, it's the way it is. I went into a temp agency not knowing it was adult daycare for felons. I would now refuse to hire anyone who came from one.

 

[cybertoaster]

Most of the value in a cobol dev these days is not to maintain the mainframes, but to figure out what they are doing (old cobol code is usually pretty hacky to reduce memory/database usage which would have been a limited resource in that era) so that it can be recreated in a more modern language/arch.

Been hearing about the real money being in doing consultancy for moving from COBOL to something less ancient like java, but then I hear about companies sticking to COBOL because its still cheaper than moving on.

Computer shit can be done by anyone for peanuts,

Not if you want it done well.

 

[Osmosis Jones]

Construction. Labor. Trades. Apprenticeships. I don't know why everyone seems to think they're either too good or not good enough to work in that industry, and frankly I'm sick of the attitude towards it. It's good work, it has room for growth, and once you've gotten your foot in the door with it you can always fall back on it. Labor is always in demand and while you might not make a lot starting out, you're currently at $0/hr and can't find anything else.

 

[Manimal House]

Funny 'cause I haven't stepped on a bestbuy for almost that long and even back in the mid 2010's the place was a bit empty, there was little variety and lots of things were chronically out of stock so it was faster to just order online.

I feel that way about every place that lets customers walk in throught the front door these days. Every department store is quiet, all the restaurants and bars that used to be busy every weekend have no wait times for a table now. It's like what you said about Cobol and companies not wanting to improve things because it's too expensive: that's the penny-pinching attitude that everyone in charge has today. Business stagnated because the money stopped flowing and shit's starting to rot if it hasn't already. And tbh, I kinda want most of it to just crumble because the corporations that reigned supreme for so long need to fall so something new can finally happen.

Does any one get the feeling like the US and western Europe is literally imploding and fake job numbers are being pumped to hide it? I refuse to believe all these PM and mid level manager positions are open for 3+ months when so many college grads are unemployed.

That's exactly what's going on, they're calling it 'Ghost jobs' and they've been reporting on them recently. Some say that almost 70 percent of job postings are fake and put up so the company can appear to be growing. Or so that the people already hired in those positions have a fire put under their ass. Or so that the hiring managers can just collect resumes until they need to hire someone. I got a little pissed off reading about it because the HR people that admitted it basically went 'yeah it's really bad if you get caught doing it because then everyone will know you're a slimy liar but hey it helps grow revenue and keeps us employed so whatevs'. Fuckin HR types, I swear to God.

Construction. Labor. Trades. Apprenticeships. I don't know why everyone seems to think they're either too good or not good enough to work in that industry, and frankly I'm sick of the attitude towards it

As someone who's spent a couple of years doing that (not much but it's at least something), not everyone's cut out for labor jobs. There's a lot of people that have absolutely no clue how to fix or build things and all the training in the world won't help them. They're the type of people that shifty car mechanics LOVE because they're so easy to rip off. Yeah, it's not like you need a degree for that but some people talk about them like it's flipping burgers and that couldn't be more false. And maybe it's just me, but I get the notion that the trades are going to start upping their standards pretty soon. I've been hearing for at least 4 years that young men are swarming into trade schools and trying to get HVAC certified and become mechanics or electricians. Starting to look like another bubble building up to me, not too sure though.
I wholeheartedly agree that trade schools and apprenticeships should be looked into by anyone looking to get their foot in the door, if they're available. It's for the same reason I'm still a believer in community and state colleges (unless they're the big overpriced universities or, God forbid, those for-profit colleges) because it's an opportunity to network and get to know others that are going into the same industry. Building relationships is priceless in the age of nepotism.

 

[YHWH's Strongest Soldier]

Does any one get the feeling like the US and western Europe is literally imploding and fake job numbers are being pumped to hide it? I refuse to believe all these PM and mid level manager positions are open for 3+ months when so many college grads are unemployed.

Western Europe here and absolutely not. Everyone that I know is already employed with many doing part-time next to full-time because it pays for extra vacations. Despite this, the shortages are really noticeable in consulting/public infra. Banking (particularly real estate & risk management) seem especially hungry and they're hunting for graduates even without a finance/economics/data science backgrounds. Even the pay has risen, but sadly not enough to keep up with inflation and rising housing prices on single income. No clue about blue collar work.

 

[Osmosis Jones]

I've been hearing for at least 4 years that young men are swarming into trade schools and trying to get HVAC certified and become mechanics or electricians. Starting to look like another bubble building up to me

The only thing stifling the ability for Americans to do American labor and construction is the importation of labor.

 

[I mean I'm just saying]

Those kind of low-end techies are in suicide watch now, the gravy train ended after 2022.

Echoing this from personal experience. There's so much TypeScript/JS talent in the market right now that even people like me with a few years of experience are struggling to find anything.
If you really want to find a lower-level web dev job, my advice is to look for hybrid roles over fully remote as that filters out competing candidates by an order of magnitude. It's very common for hybrid dev roles to have something like a 3 or even 1 day a week in-office requirement with generous call-outs as long as you get your work done. Front/back-end specialization keeps getting eaten by "Full-stack", so keep that in mind when you pick things to learn; even roles labeled "front-end" will have a high preference for someone who has at the very least a working knowledge of the backend and SQL.

As far as transitioning into web dev from another field, I personally believe leaning on a very popular full-stack metaframework like NextJS is the most effective path. Try out a tutorial or two, make something small yourself, then make more small things until you've got some projects which you can feel good showing off in a portfolio. Having a few fully-made projects in a metaframework is more impressive than a single hyper-tuned webpack config powering one project- your resume often has to be noticed by HR people or PMs before it hits the nerds in the actual code, so make sure to communicate your value in a way they understand in your portfolio/resume. By my ballpark asspull estimate, someone highly motivated and focused could get into the industry using this method and a little luck.

 

[cybertoaster]

That's exactly what's going on, they're calling it 'Ghost jobs' and they've been reporting on them recently. Some say that almost 70 percent of job postings are fake and put up so the company can appear to be growing. Or so that the people already hired in those positions have a fire put under their ass. Or so that the hiring managers can just collect resumes until they need to hire someone. I got a little pissed off reading about it because the HR people that admitted it basically went 'yeah it's really bad if you get caught doing it because then everyone will know you're a slimy liar but hey it helps grow revenue and keeps us employed so whatevs'. Fuckin HR types, I swear to God.

We're getting gaslighted to death, it started with the coof, I think many politicians couldn't believe how most people would just go with any dumb shit they said and got used to that. They changed the definition of vaccine in dictionaries and encyclopedias, telling companies to post fake jobs to pretend the economy is booming and there's no unemployment but actually a lack of employees and anyone without a job is a lazy loser fits this strategy.

Now this only applies to the uk but I recall an article saying that the job search industry just in that country is 120 billion pounds. That's a huge amount of money and positions dedicated to get other people employed, what happens when there are no jobs? you create fake ones to pretend you're still useful and keep siphoning money mostly from the government.

I've been hearing for at least 4 years that young men are swarming into trade schools

They sure were memeing it hard, places like 4chan, fb groups, places where broke-ass zoomers hang around basically, it was all about the trades, flexing on the wagies in their cagies while you make more than them working out in the sun, ignore the electrician missing both arms due to an arc accident, don't pay attention to the contractor that just 30yo but has a busted spine and slipped discs, and please please please don't ask oil rig workers how safe that job is.

Building relationships is priceless in the age of nepotism.

Yeah it fucking sucks, meritocracy my ass...

Despite this, the shortages are really noticeable in consulting/public infra. Banking (particularly real estate & risk management) seem especially hungry and they're hunting for graduates even without a finance/economics/data science backgrounds

Gonna have to ask which country.

I feel that way about every place that lets customers walk in throught the front door these days. Every department store is quiet, all the restaurants and bars that used to be busy every weekend have no wait times for a table now.

TBF IDK how much of that is due to inflation, "not-a-recession"-recession or that fact even broke ass neets get doordash and amazon delivered to their hovels now.

It's like what you said about Cobol and companies not wanting to improve things because it's too expensive: that's the penny-pinching attitude that everyone in charge has today. Business stagnated because the money stopped flowing and shit's starting to rot if it hasn't already.

Wouldn't say the same since at the end of the day COBOL still works, no bank or company is losing customers because "ewww you losers still using mainframes?", its more a case of "if it isn't broken". What surprised me is the shitty pay and shitty conditions for COBOL devs despite the fact entire tracts of our society rely on systems build with that language to function. If a mobile app to tract tranny menstrual cycles goes down nothing happens, yet mobile devs make easily 3x more than COBOL devs. And yet I hardly see any new devs for the later and a lot of straight-up dead ones.

And tbh, I kinda want most of it to just crumble because the corporations that reigned supreme for so long need to fall so something new can finally happen.

I think retail is not coming back, this contraction is not temporary, people got used to ordering shit to their homes just like they got used to work from home and now office real estate is about to implode.

 

[crustysimulacrum]

Could you post your resume but omit all the info that would dox you? Just give us a run down of your general experience and skills. You could be applying for the wrong jobs.

Also, what are you interested in for work?

 

[Core Theorist]

I know I was here just 2 pages ago but I've been thinking it over, I still want to do that Pharmacy Technician stuff as my first 'real' job if at all possible, cause I wanna use the little certificate they gave me. But, for a variety of lame practical reasons I don't think I'll be getting into it as soon as I'd like. I greatly appreciate all the additional information I got though, thanks a ton! I loved that idea with Walmart and getting them to pay for more specialist education.

My question this time: I've been working on a hobby to pass the time (I'm trying to get into 3d 'hard surface' modelling, y'know, mechanical shit), and I met a freelance modeler who's been teaching me on and off and it got me thinking about 'work from home' stuff in general. I'm a clueless hermit so I don't know if that's still 'good' anymore. Are there any 'work from home gigs' that you guys know about that I might be interested in?

If I develop my skills further I could probably be a freelance modeler, but that seems like a long ways away before I can start charging for my work. Also, I don't really want this hobby to turn into a side-job, at least right now. So, is there any other work from home stuff you guys can think of and would recommend? It doesn't need to be super reliable as a 'career' option, I just wanna make a good few bucks so I can speed things up in my personal life, sling some dough?

Anyway, thanks again for all the information so far, lads.

 

[Xarpho's Return]

My recommendation for anyone entering the work force is look at your general area and see who is long established in it as Private corporation. You would be surprised how many there are, with their fingers in everything from Restaurants and Convenience Stores, to HVAC repair, light industry and boutique investing. Unlike mega globo homo corporations, these tend to be closely held family run affairs that pride personal relationships and in person stuff. They also like hiring in house.

So, you could get an "in" with them by being the door greeter, phone answerer or cashier. But if you are a proven go getter who shows up on time (which already puts you ahead of 60% of the labor pool) they will put your resume at the top of the pile when you apply for something that pays better and carries more responsibility.

And if for whatever reason they don't want to career track you, just put your 2 weeks in and nope out, thank them for the time, but you found a better job somewhere else. And use them for a reference. If you are a good worker and not a dick about it, they will happily tell your new prospective employer you were a good worker.

Those are the most dangerous. Owning a chain of franchise restaurants, small operations with no ambition (one-off supermarkets, etc.), manufacturing plants...they usually have no room up top either by design or just inconvenience.

I've seen it happen. My manager at the chain pizza place was working 50-60+ hours a week and yet he wasn't in control of firing and hiring, that was HR, which ended up leaking everyone's personal information because these things are nepotism hires and they're probably less competent than the druggies actually working the stores.

Do your research into these places, if nobody is getting promoted and everyone on the bottom just quits within a year, you will likely do the same. Or get fired, which they'll find ways to do so. The easy way is to check what ethnicity they are, and what their recent track record is.

 

[All Smiles]

Learn typescript/JavaScript and get a remote boomer web developer job. It's ezpz and the pay isn't tied as much to the local economy so if you live in a poorer area you can be king nigger in the hood

Is it even wise to learn coding anymore if you don't aim on being in the top 2% of all coders?

Outsourcing, immigration and AI seem like a major roadblock for all future juniors.

 

[Cirrhosis_of_Liver]

Trades jobs are fucking hard work and you have to develop real skill. People blithely say "be a trucker! Or a welder!" As if that isn't insulting to welders.

I already recommended trucking for someone who just wants a high money to effort ratio. Consider sales, too. If you're a people person and don't mind being a goddamned liar, sales jobs are easy to get, and easy to make pay.

If you actually *want* to be a welder, plumber, electrician, fabricator-- that's great. But you gotta be after more than just a paycheck to work that hard.

 

[Mortan Shekelstorm]

how bad is a 8 month or year gap of work on a CV? had medical and mental shit come up and back to job hunting and competing against economic migrants

 

[Get the rope Macaulay!]

Insane how people just don't know when they're underselling themselves.

you'd be surprised the steals you'll get in engineering. the sort of person into IT usually is too socially unaware or is comfortable enough that they don't care about the money involved.

Does any one get the feeling like the US and western Europe is literally imploding and fake job numbers are being pumped to hide it? I refuse to believe all these PM and mid level manager positions are open for 3+ months when so many college grads are unemployed.

there's some bullshit requirement too about how long a job can stay posted but from what i've seen this year, hell yes the economy has imploded. the amount of job listings on indeed has extremely dropped. this time last year i'd see 10x as many job listings, easily 10k new job ads a week in a 50 mile radius of me and i live in one of the top metropolitan areas of the country, now if i see 1000 thats considered impressive, and most of those are just the same jobs being relisted like for door dash or working at restaurants or retail.

 

[crustysimulacrum]

Does any one get the feeling like the US and western Europe is literally imploding and fake job numbers are being pumped to hide it? I refuse to believe all these PM and mid level manager positions are open for 3+ months when so many college grads are unemployed.

Companies create fake job ads to seem like they are having growth.

 

[Great General Ri Shin]

They sure were memeing it hard, places like 4chan, fb groups, places where broke-ass zoomers hang around basically, it was all about the trades, flexing on the wagies in their cagies while you make more than them working out in the sun, ignore the electrician missing both arms due to an arc accident, don't pay attention to the contractor that just 30yo but has a busted spine and slipped discs, and please please please don't ask oil rig workers how safe that job is.

Very real and true. Spent a few months apprenticing in HVAC and the thing that got me out of it was meeting so many dudes who were either fat or permanently injured/handicapped to some extent. A lot of dudes with major hand injuries, and the things I heard about heatstroke were horrible. Those jobs and the hours they demand can destroy your health easily. Unless you’re literally crawling out of a slum or something, HVAC or jobs like probably aren’t the best idea. PS: you’re also going to be working 10+ hours for most of the year, possibly for the rest of your life depending on where you work.

Seriously, unless you have some autistic passion or no other option, you can probably do better, and I imagine that goes for most “skilled trade” jobs.

 

[Get the rope Macaulay!]

eriously, unless you have some autistic passion or no other option, you can probably do better,

Someone said that the trades was the male version of becoming a stripper, You make a fuckload of money when you're young, but your body and soul are crushed by the time you're in your 30s. Your quote reminded me of that. even worse HVAC is one of the best trade jobs, up there with being an electrician or plumber. I've heard of several electricians still doing it in their 70s. they might not have been the fastest, but they got the experience. Also their bodies are immune to electrocution.

 

[cybertoaster]

The easy way is to check what ethnicity they are

Go on...

Is it even wise to learn coding anymore if you don't aim on being in the top 2% of all coders?

Outsourcing, immigration and AI seem like a major roadblock for all future juniors.

I could never ever get working code from an AI, not once.

The devin.ai demo? completely fake, bunch of chinese fuerdai fuckers trying to pull a scam not unlike the other fat chink that did the orange brick thing.

Trades jobs are fucking hard work and you have to develop real skill. People blithely say "be a trucker! Or a welder!" As if that isn't insulting to welders.

Don't know about welder but I was told all my life contractor work was hard to learn and do, but a few years ago I had a contractor bail on me and had to finish the job myself. Learned how to do all the shit pretty easily, its no wonder room temp IQ apes can do this, you have to be borderline tarded to not get this, like that turk guy using a powerdrill like a hammer...

I already recommended trucking for someone who just wants a high money to effort ratio.

Never saw a rich trucker and they are all overworked to hell. There's a reason why there's a lack of truckers.

Consider sales, too. If you're a people person and don't mind being a goddamned liar, sales jobs are easy to get, and easy to make pay.

Everybody I hear saying sales its easy money tend to be people who never sold anything but "know a guy" who does.

Spent a few months apprenticing in HVAC and the thing that got me out of it was meeting so many dudes who were either fat or permanently injured/handicapped to some extent

See what I mean? and HVAC isn't even that dangerous.